Raleigh, Archie, Gus

A couple of days ago Raleigh and Archie were playing tug of war with a toy. They were growling at each other but I could tell they were being playful. It was so great to see Raleigh enjoying playing like that.

Archie has started with scratching in his neck area, rib area and he licks or gives little nibbles to his back legs or the area where his tail and back meet. He is so sensitive on his back when you touch him. I took him to the vet and she checked for flees. I heard flees are bad this year. I never dealt with them. She said there were no signs of them so she suspects allergies. She wants me to start Archie on Benadryl. She said he might have to go on Prednezone. Gosh, he's only 5 months old. Steroids so young? Why can't things just go smooth?

Now Archie has started with diarrhea. Went several times tonight.
I did not start the Benadryl yet.
Now what the heck is going on? My poor little guy. I don't know what to make of it! Archie's poops have been really good till now.

Archie's diarrhea seemed better. Now tonight he had it bad again.
My little guy has been out so many times tonight.
Wish I knew what was going on.

Little monkey has probably eaten something again! They are notorious for doing that when they are babies. I would put him on chicken and rice for a few days and hopefully it will clear up

I know it's hard not to worry Vicki but hopefully it will just clear up again, if it isn't bloody then he doesn't have colitis, just keep an eye like I know you will and I am sure it will be ok

Kisses for all the babies and a hug to you
Love
Mel
Xxxxx

I agree, chicken and rice. Might he need some florifora? When molly get the runs bad, she usually has a bacterial infection from something. Maybe something she got into, ate, stepped in and licked her paws.
Just a thought.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Hi Mel, Sharlene,
Thanks. A tech in the vet's office on Monday told me to do the chicken or hamburger and rice. I was doing that for 2 days. Archie's poops were better so I started to mix in some dog food on Wednesday and he had some treats. Wednesday night he had the runs again. Raleigh had them too Wednesday night. I lost track how many times I was out with the 2 of them that night. Thursday I talked to the vet and she said do Forti Flora and the chicken or hamburger and rice but she said to make sure I add the dog food back a little bit then gradually increase it but she didn't say how long his stools should be normal before starting to add the dog food. He went one time today and it was pretty firm. He gobbles up the chicken or hamburger and rice so fast that the other day he was done and I didn't know it. I had my back turned and before I knew it he was in Raleigh's bowl. I hope all this chicken and burger doesn't spoil him and he won't want to go back to dog food. I hate that he is going all this time without the nutrients from the dog food.
Do you gradually add dog food back in or do you just start feeding it all at once?

Hey Vicki

Hang in there, I remember a couple of christmas's ago Tia and Boyce had the runs and it was a nightmare with them both, just get one sorted then the other would start, to this day I have no idea what caused that, we were away and not near the vets, even chicken and rice seemed to upset them at first!

I think when they are babies they are even more sensitive, him getting in Raleigh's food would have probably triggered it as any new food can do that to them. They are into everything and it is hard to stop them, which is a vicious circle.

I think when they have had it bad, adding it gradually is best. I think the nutrients would only become a concern if it wad over a long period of time. Leslie will know the answer to that one ;)

Mel
Xxxxx

Hi Vicki, when you add back in the dog food, I would not give him the treats you are giving him now. If his poops were fine on the chicken or hamburger and rice, then you said you gave him dog food and a treat and he got the runs. So, I'd start simple and not do the treats. Give him something like shredder carrot or green bean for a treat (might as well start him early on that). I'm thinking elimination to see what is actually causing the runs. He might be reacting to just one ingredient even in either the treat or the dog food. If you can find a freeze dried chicken treat or something with very minimal ingredient in it for treat, that would probably work as well as the green beans or carrots.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Mel, Sharlene-Thanks for the advise. As a matter of fact both Archie and Gus love carrots, green beans, and blueberries.
I need to find out from the vet when I can start to add dog food. He only had the runs Sunday night and Wednesday night. He has not been going any where near as often since he's been eating the chicken, hamburger and rice. They have been semi soft with specks in it. Does the rice not digest right? Archie always had such good poops until this started.
Sharlene, I didn't think about taking it slow. Should have waited on the treats.
The vet said no turkey on Thanksgiving because it's not boiled. I was so hoping to give Archie and Gus a little since it's their first Thanksgiving.

Vicki:
I miss you, but I know you are busy with the little ones. Hope everything gets cleared up with the diets. Blessings
Patti

Hi Vicki,

Sounds like you have your hands full. I just wanted to stop by to wish all of you a Happy Thanksgiving. I hope the puppies are feeling better.

Patti, Addy
Thanks. Happy Thanksgiving to you and everyone.

Happy Thanksgiving Vicki, to you and the whole gang!
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Vicki:
Happy Thanksgiving to you and the babies. Hope you have a wonderful day together. Blessings
Patti

Sharlene and Patti,
Thanks
I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving too.

Archie is still having poop problems so they won't be having any turkey. I get so darn worried about things and this problem is worrying me.

I hope everyone had a nice Thanksgiving.
This diarrhea problem that Archie has is worrying me. Now Gus has had some the last 2 days also. Archie had been scratching and licking himself for a while. Now he gnaws on himself and pulls his fur. It's in the upper back leg area. He goes after it so bad it looks like it bleeds a bit. The one spot also looked like it was swollen. I took him to see the vet Friday. She doesn't want to put him on anything for his itchiness until his stools are better. That has been going on for 2 weeks. Now Gus has started gnawing on his paw and leg. Sure wish I knew what the heck is going on!

I had a trainer come to the house to see if she could help with a few issues. I am not happy with the way things went. I wish I would have been smarter and done my homework before I made an appointment. She uses prong collars, which she called a "mama collar". Her website says no shock collars but doesn't mention the others. I was surprised but went along with it because it was explained to me how it works. It seemed OK while the 2 people were here but when they left and I had time to think about things, I didn't like it. I tried it a couple of times but wasn't comfortable with it. The one time when the ladies were here I looked at Archie and he had this look on his face that said, why are you doing this? On Friday when I took Archie to the vet I put it on him and asked the vet what her opinion was about them. She does not like them especially on Pugs who can have trachea problems. So I am out a bunch of money and am so very unhappy about it. Sure wish I would have known all this ahead of time but I was clueless. Now I know of a lady who trains without any collars and only charges 1/2 the price of what I paid. She works totally different from the other one. Kicking myself!

Oh I am so sorry about that mess with the trainer. So many out there think "training" equals "dominance" and that is just not right. Caesar Milan has done more damage to the general public's thinking of what good training is than anything else I can think of at the moment. That is always the first question I ask a trainer - "What do you think of Milan?" If they admire him or try to copy his methods - they FLY out the door! You want someone who works from a positive, reward based perspective, who works toward communication between us and our babies, not simply control. The punishment proponents, like those who think shock or prong collars are "fine when used correctly", are nothing more than abusers in my mind. I talked to a trainer for Crys, several in fact, and they all wanted to use things like the prong or shock collars; one wanted me to put her on a 2' chain and basically jerk her into behaving...and I was ignorant enough to consider it. Then Saskia told me about Turid Rugas and her "Calming Signals" method. I bought the book by the same name and it was amazing not only how her methods worked for Crys but the things I learned about how to read her body language and behavior. Turid has a website where she answers questions and there are several YouTube presentations by her. She's in The Netherlands and I would so love to meet her! Check her out and you will have a much better idea of what good, positive training really means.

I wish you the best of luck and hope the itchies cause can be found and addressed soon.

Hugs,
Leslie

http://en.turid-rugaas.no/

http://www.amazon.com/On-Talking-Ter.../dp/1929242360

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj7BWxC6iVs

Valerie:
just wanted you to know that not a day goes past that I don't think of you and Scoop, and the babies. Sorry to hear about the runs with Archie. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving. Blessings
Patti

Oh darn, I was hoping the poo problems were solved. Sorry to hear about the trainer issues. We had a similar experience with Koko when he was small. The trainer said "positive reinforcement" training. I had done clicker training with Zoe, so I had no idea Koko and I signed up for 3 months of tough boot camp with a mean drill sergeant.

I know how you feel.

Sorry to hear about the poo problems and also the gnawing. What you described with the gnawing reminded me of our poodle's reaction when he ate a piece of chocolate cake that I dropped. Just wondering if the two things are related and he's developed an allergy to something in his food?
Also when Hamish had poo problems with Blue the vet said that they can develop an allergy to food that they've previously been OK with.

Hoping that you can get things resolved soon.

So it was Blue Buffalo Hamish turned out to be allergic to?
Archie and Gus have been eating Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy dry food but they eat Wellness or Merrick canned food.
The last 2 days Gus seems to be pretty itchy too. Gus has poop problems off and on, too.
Just seems strange both have the same issues. Just that Archie's are worse.

Patti, I think of you and Tipper, too.

Addy, Thanks for telling me about your experience with a trainer. I feel like an idiot for jumping into it without finding out more but her website just made me think I was doing the right thing. I didn't even know about prong collars before this. I want to call her this week. Probably won't do any good but oh well.

Leslie, Thank you for that information. I will definitely check her out. I was thinking of buying some books (what my husband wanted me to do in the first place). I haven't told him what the vet said, yet.
I just thought this trainer used commands or something like that, not collars. I was just so stupid for jumping into this so quickly.

Vicki:
I just realized I called you Valerie in a post. Forgive me I am so sorry, my mind is scrambled lately, and probably just posted to Valerie and had her name in my brain. Blessings
Patti

Dear Vicki,

I'm so sorry that both Archie and Gus are having GI issues now. It does make you wonder if it might be worms or some sort of parasite that they've passed between them, but I'm hoping the vet took a stool sample on Friday with the plan of checking out that possibility.

Also, I so wish you could be kinder on yourself re: enlisting that first trainer. I don't think you did anything at all that was stupid, even if you decide to go an alternative route. We all make many choices by trial-and-error, and that is nothing to be ashamed of. If I had a dollar for every decision I've ended up changing, I'd be a billionaire by now!

As far as the prong (pinch) collar, I do understand why you've now decided against it, especially with your vet's warning about tracheal issues in pugs. However, it may not always be a bad choice for every dog and every situation, so I don’t think you did anything wrong by considering the option when the first trainer presented it to you.

I've attended many training classes through the years with my dogs (since I seem to need so much training myself!). Pinch collars have been offered as options at every class, so I don't think it's unusual that you found a trainer who uses them. I've used pinch collars at one time or another with all my Labs, and still use it for my youngest when we are out walking. Obviously, since I use it, I do not consider pinch collars to be abusive when they are fitted and handled properly (e.g., you do not use them to drag a dog around!). They look horrible, but unlike choke collars (which I do not think are safe), they have rings that prevent them from closing beyond a specific degree of tightening. Supposedly, when the prongs tighten, they mimic a mother dog's nip pressure at the neck of an unruly youngster. Trainers have always had me test the collar on my own arm or leg to see how it feels when tightened. When sized properly, it does not seem painful to me when "snapped" tighter on my own body, but it is indeed an attention-getting quick pressure (and for that reason I understand why you would not want to use it with a dog or breed that is vulnerable to tracheal issues).

I do not rely on the collar as an alternative to positive reinforcement for most training purposes, but when walking my dogs, literally it has saved me from being dragged into the street in front of cars or pulled down on my face on the sidewalk. I am a small person and when my 70-pound ball of energy makes a split-second decision to chase a squirrel when we're out walking, the prong collar has been a life-saver as far as interrupting the sudden lunge. So once again, I do not in any way discount your vet's warning or your own preference, and I don't doubt that a person with Saskia's skills and intuition would handle the lunging differently. But I hope people don't view me as an abuser of my dogs because I use prong collars :o. And I sure hope you find a training style that is a better match to your needs and preference. But I don't think you did anything that is stupid.

Marianne

No, you are never stupid. As the old saying goes, ignorance can be cured with education but stupid is forever. ;) We learn so we ain't stupid. :D

Do check the feed and try to find one that has different ingredient. ie if what they are eating has chicken and corn, find one that has beef and oats - change the ingredients to see if something they are eating is contributing to the itching. I had a pup who was allergic to guar gum found in most canned foods - she would get violently sick after eating it and it took me forever to pin that ingredient down. But once I did and stopped buying food that had guar gum, she didn't get sick any more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scoora

So it was Blue Buffalo Hamish turned out to be allergic to?
Archie and Gus have been eating Blue Buffalo Wilderness Puppy dry food but they eat Wellness or Merrick canned food.
The last 2 days Gus seems to be pretty itchy too. Gus has poop problems off and on, too.
Just seems strange both have the same issues. Just that Archie's are worse.

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Well, it was around the time of their recall so we were never sure if it was problems with the food or an allergy, but as soon as we changed his food he was fine.
Have you started a new bag of food? I remember reading about one brand, I think it was Orijen, that had changed the recipe and a lot of dogs had problems with the new version of the food.

Rosie is on Blue Buffalo Basics Salmon and Potato Formula. It is a limited ingredient feed designed for Dogs with food allergies and sensitivities. Buddy was on it too, since I seem to attract little allergic dogs! :eek:I took Rosie off of the turkey and changed to salmon when she was scratching continuously. You mentioned feeding your pups the "Wilderness Formula". That feed is not a limited ingredient or novel protein formula. It is grain free and higher in protein. If my pups were having these problems, I would want to get stool samples first to check for parasites, then consider changing the feed if the stool sample is clear.

The skin issues could definitely be food related. Mites are another possibility. They are microscopic little buggers which cause intense itching. Puppies ofter arrive with them, like Rosie did. If you examine really closely, their eggs look like small flecks of dandruff. Rosie is black, so I could spot them easier. You might want to ask your vet to check that too. I hope you get the babies sorted out soon. Poor things, poor mom. xxxxx

Patti-No need to apologize. I know you have a lot on your mind.

Marianne-Archie had a stool sample done about a week and a half ago. It was negative. Also, thank you for everything you said about the collars. It makes me feel better. What you said is what the trainer told me about them and she put one on my arm and showed me how it works. It did help to keep Archie from pulling too much on the leash when I took him out with it on. I just wish I would have checked into everything first so I wouldn't have wasted $410. I don't work and I haven't explained to my husband yet about what the vet said.

Leslie-I am thinking of trying a different food. They also get canned food mixed with dry. It seems like it could be tough.

This is the third bag of this kind of food that they have eaten. I don't know if I want to switch brands or try the limited ingredient formula.

Kathy-I will have to mention mites to the vet. It's funny how you described the mites. Raleigh is black and we have noticed white flakes on his back. It is in an area where he had a lump removed a year and a half ago. We figured it is dry skin.

Archie gnaws on himself sometimes that he bleeds.

Mites wouldn't have anything to do with soft stools and diarrhea, would they?

Archie has been on hamburger and rice since supper on Friday. I thought I'd see if it would make a difference not eating chicken. Today he went 3 times. They first time was the firmest but not as firm as Archie's normal used to be. Then after that each one got a bit softer.
I am going to start giving him chicken and rice and see if it is different.

If it is a food allergy, how long does it take to get out of their system? Can I expect his stools to ever get back to normal?

Thanks everyone for your help. This is so confusing and frustrating.

We live in the Lehigh Valley. They say it is one of the worse places for allergies. Raleigh has had allergies most of his life but he hasn't ever gnawed himself like Archie does.

A thought went through my head. Since Archie had a reaction to his rabies shot (seizure) I wonder if these currant problems could be caused by the shot?

It's always possible that Archie could be having some carry-over issues from the vaccination, but since Gus is having most of the same problems on-and-off, too (even though not as bad), it seems more likely to me that it is something infectious, dietary and/or environmental that is causing them. And it can sure drive you crazy trying to figure it all out!

My Peg has had soft stools off-and-on her whole life, no matter what food she is getting. And she always starts itching horribly around the end of October and it lasts until spring -- just the time of year when you'd think there wouldn't be any outdoor vegetation that would be bothering her. The only thing I can figure is that it corrsponds to the time of year when we are running the furnace and really drying out the air in the house. The dryness doesn't bother Luna at all, but Peg's skin does seem to dry out really badly during the winter. Even as I'm writing this, she's scratching the daylights out of herself over on the couch and gnawing on her leg. :(

Marianne

You're right Marianne. It just seemed strange that all of a sudden Archie started having these problems. I just wish it would get straightened out. It is driving me crazy. I don't like that he hasn't been getting the proper nutrition for a couple of weeks now.
Archie's itchiness seems to be worse at night and first thing in the morning.

Today I found a lump on Archie's leg and it does not look like he gnawed on himself there. My husband said it should be looked at. Great, something else to worry about. When I showed my daughter tonight she started discovering several small lumps in the same area and on his side. Geez, I can't believe something else.

I took Archie to the vet. He saw the other vet in the practice, not the one who has him on a bland diet and said to wait on the Benadryl. He said the lumps on Archie are hives. He talked about hot spots on Archie's back where he has been chewing on himself. I also showed him some things on Archie's lip and chin. He called them something but I don't remember what it was. He said the GI issues-immune system, skin hives, itchiness-immune system, the lip, chin thing-immune system. I mentioned the rabies shot followed by a seizure thinking could this be the cause of the skin , GI issues, the vet said immune system. He said his immune system is still trying to catch up. I said can it be helped at all. He said testosterone. He said don't get him neutered yet. He needs the testosterone.

Has anyone heard of that before?

After thinking about things, now I am worried about how bad his immune system is. All I think about is Scoop's compromised immune system. I have questions running through my head.

This vet now started Archie on Benadryl. He said he needs to be on it. He also put him on a trial prescription diet for the GI. I have a funny feeling that is not going to go over too well with Archie. He has been eating hamburger or chicken and rice for weeks. Now he has to eat this crap food. I gave him a taste on a spoon. He did not eat it. I mixed a bit into his chicken and rice and he had a hard time eating it.

He also wants to repeat a stool test in a week. He said sometimes the lab can miss the parasites.

Hey Vicki

I am so sorry you are having these issues with Archie, this was the last thing you needed

Hopefully you will figure out what is going on soon, I don't know anything about the immune thing he was referring to

Just wanted to send you a massive hug

Mel
Xxxxx

Hi Mel,
Thanks for the hug.
Sending one back to you.

Ok...NutriCal is a vitamin and mineral supplement that is used when pups aren't eating well. It can help keep their strength up and keep them alive til they can eat again. It has nothing that will help control diarrhea - it is a nutrient supplement. There are other products that are the same with names like NutriStat.

SEB is Slippery Elm Bark and it can help with diarrhea. But as with all herbs, it has more than one action, or more than one thing it can do in the body, and it also has a laxative action. Marianne found it worked more as a laxative for Peg than as an antidiarrheal. So far, it has helped mine with diarrhea....but it hasn't worked as quickly in Grace as it does in Trink, Squirt or myself.

Diarrhea can have many causes and it's important to know the cause to know how to address it. If it is a simple bacteria, it's best to let the body try to handle it without intervention. If the diarrhea persists, then some mild help might be in order like an antibiotic and/or stronger herbs, even something like the Flagyl. If the diarrhea is caused from a food allergy it will continue until the allergen is found and removed from the diet. Then there are conditions like IBD and colitis that require different treatments and approaches. I haven't used and know nothing about the Fortiflora some have used other than that it is a probiotic with an antibiotic. Probiotics can be beneficial in some cases but not in all - again the cause of the diarrhea needs to be known.

I wish I had some ideas for your sweet boys but I just don't beyond what others have already said. If this is a result of the vaccines they got, I doubt you will ever get the vets to admit that but I would sure keep trying to find out if that is a real possibility and what can be done if the shots are the cause of the problems they have been having.

Vicki, I just posted this reply to Scoop's thread, but wanted to repeat it here since this is your thread that is focused on Archie and Gus. Leslie has given you some very useful advice above, and I hope that you'll soon get some relief for both the boys. From what you've said, though, I don't think Gus has had his rabies shot yet. So even though you are wondering if it is the culprit with Archie, we know it cannot be the cause of the GI issues with Gus.

As I wrote below, I truly don't think there is a way for your vets to know for certain whether the vaccination is the source of Archie's issues. A researcher who specializes in immunological disorders can undoubtedly identify types of abnormalities that vaccinations can trigger. But there can be other causes for these types of problems, as well. So I don't know that anybody can state with certainty, after-the-fact, that a problem like that which comes up in an individual dog was definitely caused a previous vaccination. I don't think it's a matter of them not being willing to tell you -- I don't think there's any way for them to know. So that's why I hope you don't end up focusing solely on the vaccination at the expense of other possible causes that may have a remedy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by labblab

It sounds to me as though Tipper had an acute allergic reaction to the vaccine itself, just like what happens when people who are sensitive have immediate reactions to medications, or bee stings, or eating peanuts, etc. This can certainly be life-threatening, no doubt about it, and you would want to avoid that vaccine from that point onward. But it is a time-limited reaction. I believe this is a different scenario from what you are worried about with Archie, which is instead that you are afraid the vaccination triggered a long-term abnormality in his immune system.

It is true that this can sometimes happen, and I realize you are probably doubly worried because you don't want Gus to develop problems later on after his vaccination, too. So I am not discounting your worry in any way. But I think your vet is correct that there is really no way to know whether the vaccination is the true source of Archie's current problems. I know there are websites that link vaccinations to virtually any medical problem a dog could ever experience. And since all dogs in the U.S. are theoretically required to be vaccinated against rabies, based on some of those websites, an owner could worry that any medical problem their dog ever develops must surely have been caused by the vaccination.

In Archie's case, it is definitely true that the timing makes the connection seem much more suspicious. But I don't think you will ever be able to determine for certain whether the vaccination is at fault. So I think your vet will be doing the right thing by continuing to search for alternative causes/remedies that may exist. My heart does go out to you when you see these problems in one so young. As I mentioned on your other thread, my own Peg started exhibiting severe seasonal allergies before she was even four months old. Since they only manifest during the winter and she is perfectly fine in the summer, we know they are not food-related or medication-related. And my other dog, Luna, had extended episodes of diarrhea on-and-off during her first nine months, no matter what food we had her on. Fortunately, that finally straightened out for her all by itself (although we did find at one time she had worms which we had to eradicate) and now she seems to have an iron stomach! So even though Archie's allergies may be more of a long-term issue, I'm hoping that his GI problems will ultimately resolve -- and hopefully sooner rather than later.

Marianne

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Hi Vicki,

I am so sorry that your babies are still having issues. I had hoped that their tummies would have settled by now. :o The itching thing can be very difficult to pin down also. There are numerous things than can cause severe itching. Allergies, mites, and foods sensitivities to name a few. Yes, some of Archie's issues could be related to his rabies shot, but there's no way to know for sure. Gus hasn't had his immunization and he's having some of the same issues also, although less severe.

As far as Archie's seizure following his rabies shot, I agree that it's very suspicious and I would not be able to let that go without following up myself. I would have definitely gotten the manufacturer's name (from the vet) and contacted them. I realize that your vet said that they contacted the manufacturer already, but I would want to ask my own questions firsthand, but that's me. I tend to not want to stop until I get my questions answered from those who know the facts. I can be a real pain in the butt sometimes. ;)

SEB - Slippery Elm Bark - did wonders for Buddy. It settled his stomach when nothing else worked. I did not use it for diarrhea. I used it to coat Buddy's stomach because the meds tore up his stomach so bad that he couldn't settle to sleep. Buddy had many allergies, so I was reluctant to try it, but he had no problem with it.

I hope you get some answers soon, so you can help your sweet boys. Xxxx

Hi Vicki,

Sorry, I don't know if Metronidazole is safe for puppies or what the dosage would be. Maybe someone will drop in and help you out with that. I would check with the vet before giving it to Archie anyway. His poor little body has been through so much.:o xxxx

Hi Kathy,
The vet is the one who said to give Archie the Metronidazole but I saw on ehow.com that it shouldn't be given to puppies.
He has been through so much with all of this. It is making my head spin. It breaks my heart.

What kind of questions would you ask the vaccine manufacturer?

Archie has been on Benadryl for 6 days. It didn't seem to cause any drowsiness. His itchiness seems a bit better(knock on wood). He still goes after himself sometimes but not as bad. Last week the vet sent Archie home with some Metronidazole and said use if needed. Today I talked to someone at the vet's office and told her Archie had a bout of diarrhea Sunday night and Monday night. She said get him started on the Metronidazole. I gave him 1/2 a pill at supper. He fell asleep after supper and he has been so out of it since then. I looked up side effects of Metronidazole to see if it could cause drowsiness and I saw that it said to not give to puppies.


Has anyone heard this before?

What is going to happen if this diarrhea doesn't stop?

Today is the first day Archie is strictly on the prescription Iams diet. The lady vet he sees said she doesn't want him on that very long. I feel like we are getting nowhere.

Leslie, Thank you very much for all the information. That is very helpful.