Confused and Overwhelmed-Diagnosed Anal Sac Carcinoma (Woody has passed)

Hoping everything continues to get better for Woody. Please stay with the forum. Post your numbers also as this forum will tell you if they agree with the vets findings as a lot of vets think they know what these numbers mean and don't. Blessings
Patti

Hi and welcome.. I am not much use on helping with Woody's problems... but boy his face looks like my Flynn so you must stay!! :D:D

Popping in to say hi and hope everyone had a good weekend. Woody has been ok usual drinking and peeing he was very flat yesterday and barely got out of bed, but better today. I'm in the middle of having the No you've been fed conversation while he is crying and pawing me for more food , glad I live alone or I would be carted away to funny farm having a conversation like this with him :o

Trish - he does have a look of Flynn gorgeous

We have all had those conversations with our fur babies. After a while you won't care if anyone overhears you or worry about what others think. We are all a little crazy here. You don't have to be, but it helps.:D

Awww, sorry Woody had a flat day. I think that just happens sometimes.
Aww, poor little guy. It's hard when they are trying their darnedest to convince you that they are starving to death after just haven't a bite to eat.
hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Just checking in been a hectic night. Woody has picked up a viral infection and decided to throw up most of yesterday, I watched him like a hawk but decided at 8pm that he had,t been drinking enough and whilst still being sick I took him to the emergency vet. As the emergency vet is in a different practice I had to explain his history needless to say Woody was kept on overnight put on IV Fluids and monitored, he was given an anti sickness injection. I didn't sleep a wink house so quite when he,s not here and admit to calling EV 3 times to check on him. I have picked him up this morning and he is doing well has 5 days AB s and is now fast asleep in his bed.

My vet has also just called me to check on him EV sends report to my own vet as well and she has passed all test results/history to the IMS so they should contact me later today to find out the next step.

Oh no, poor little boy, hopefully the fluids and meds made him feel better and you get a plan in place with the IMS. I guess a quiet day for you guys. Have you got some plain food to give him when he starts eating? Maybe some mushy rice with a wee bit chicken?

Praying for Woody that this infection goes away. He really did not need this on top of everything else the poor boy. Blessings
Patti

Oh, goodness! I'm glad Woody is home again and hope this is soon behind him. My Squirt has an intestinal infection so we have been working from the other end! :p Good thing we don't share a house or it would be a mess! :eek::p:D

You said something about being glad you lived alone because of the talking. LOL I talk out loud to myself allll the time - even when there isn't another living soul within hearing distance. My ex used to tell me if he wanted to find me, all he had to do was be still for a minute and he'd hear me talking somewhere....then after moving into our house last year, I was out in the yard working, and yes talking, when the neighbor came to the fence and looked around. She was looking to see who in the world I was talking to because she couldn't see anyone else from her porch! :p:o:D No one understands that the talking keeps me SANE so chatter away, honey! :p:p:p

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Originally Posted by Trish

Oh no, poor little boy, hopefully the fluids and meds made him feel better and you get a plan in place with the IMS. I guess a quiet day for you guys. Have you got some plain food to give him when he starts eating? Maybe some mushy rice with a wee bit chicken?

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Yeah he,s just had some chicken and is looking for more, but he,s not getting it don,t want to overload his tummy :o

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Originally Posted by Squirt's Mom

Oh, goodness! I'm glad Woody is home again and hope this is soon behind him. My Squirt has an intestinal infection so we have been working from the other end! :p Good thing we don't share a house or it would be a mess! :eek::p:D

You said something about being glad you lived alone because of the talking. LOL I talk out loud to myself allll the time - even when there isn't another living soul within hearing distance. My ex used to tell me if he wanted to find me, all he had to do was be still for a minute and he'd hear me talking somewhere....then after moving into our house last year, I was out in the yard working, and yes talking, when the neighbor came to the fence and looked around. She was looking to see who in the world I was talking to because she couldn't see anyone else from her porch! :p:o:D No one understands that the talking keeps me SANE so chatter away, honey! :p:p:p

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Oh my this is so me, I talk all the time I talk to Woody all the time even when we,re out and about, I wouldv,e admitted to it earlier but I thought you,s would all think I was a mad women :D:D I will also admit to, when I ask Woody a question to answering it on behalf of him in a stupid doggy voice, please tell me am not alone in that :D

Woody has had a long sleep and a potter in the garden he has had a little chicken and seems a bit better, he has gone back to his bed now so I,ll let sleeping dogs lye as they say. He, s not been sick but does still have diar so hopefully meds will kick in soon

We don't think you are crazy or mad for talking to Woody and answering in his doggie voice. Actually with this group of people you fit right in and that is quite normal for us! We wouldn't expect anything less. Hope Woody is feeling better and that you two have a good day. Blessings
Patti

haha...I agree with Patti! There's no one in this group who will think anything of talking to and answering for your dog!
I hope Woody is feeling better from his bout with a virus and glad he is home from the vet! ;)
Barbara

Ha! Most of us do it, just some don't admit it! LOL

Good to know I,m not alone in the madness lol. Woody has been fine today, mostly slept which was fine, as I did too lol. I gave him a little was down tonight as he had managed to get poo all over his legs as it still pretty runny and I noticed that he has got small which lumps like in a cluster all over his elbow, he sleeps in a soft bed (memory foam) or on the sofa, never sleeps outdoors so not on hard surfaces, any ideas what these could be. There not bothering him just bothering me lol

Could he have calcium deposits? Tipper has some hard bumps here and there and I think that is what they are, the vet looked at them and said nothing as usual. Blessings
Patti

Patti - I,m not sure what calcium deposits look like tried to google but cant find any pictures. I will speak with the vet next time we,re in. Although his bloods have shown up high calcium levels in two separate samples not sure if that is relevant.

Well Woody is almost over his viral infection, he is eating well, and his energy levels are starting to come back up, he has even managed an almost solid poo today (yay).

The IMS was supposed to ring me yesterday but I,ve not heard anything from them, so will give them till tomorrow then I will ring my own vet and see what is going on. I know they are really busy but I,m on pins waiting to see what the next step is for my boy. My niece looked after him tonight while I popped out for a while, I left a long list of instructions for her and when I came back home a few hours later she couldn't believe how much Woody was drinking and peeing. I think my family thought I was exaggerating his symtoms :mad:

So glad to hear that Woody is recovering from the viral infection.

I completely understand that you want to get this figured out and on the road to doing something about it.
I am not good at waiting for the call back from vets. *sigh* It drives me crazy when I can't "do" something to make things better. :)

ahhh, when you said he's drinking and peeing a river, they thought you meant a little stream. :) Welcome to your world. LOL

Doing good though! Yay for good poops
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

My dog also has developed pad like areas on her front elbows. They just showed up in the last year. I showed this to the vet and he also just acknowledged them. My dog also sleeps on a very nicely padded bed and on the carpet. I'm sure this has to do with age although my dogs have been involved in competition obedience and they do a lot of "sphinx" downs which probably rubs this area some and at this age and with cushings - the hair is worn off more and doesn't grow back in. My other dog is 9 and has done all this and she doesn't have these extra worn spots on her elbows yet. Jan W.

Hoping Woody is on the road to recovery so you can figure out what else is going on and get it managed. I know it is a worry, but he will be fine once this is all figured out. Blessings
Patti

Typical wait in all day for the IMS then blinking missed his call by the time I got his message and rung back he had left for the evening. In his message he said his name was Richard he sounds about 20 years old ha. He said he has had a quick look over Woodys test and although he has agreed Woody had presented with cushings symptoms he needs to look at them more in depth so will call me on Monday so more waiting. In other news Woody,s back to normal and over his viral infection but his hunger is driving me insane today he has constantly wanted food, raiding the bin, throwing his food bowl at me and trying to open the cupboard door lol. I'm hoping that it is just because he hasn't eaten much this week but will keep an eye on it.

I,ve now started a journal of how much he drinks daily how often he pees, the colour of his urine, exercise and see if there,s any pattern

Hope everyone has a good weekend

Tracy

Sorry to hear about Woody's hunger. I know it is really hard not to keep giving them food especially when they are begging for it. When Tipper would start way before her meal time it would make me crazy too. I had to end up getting away from her to another room, and she couldn't see me to beg any more. I think that is one of the hardest things to get thru. Thank God that stopped when her Cortisol got under control. The journal is a great thing. I put Tipper's behavior down, and the weather also, as she gets scared from storms, and I can keep track of why she is acting funny that day. Hope you get this all resolved and that Woody can start feeling better. Blessings
Patti

I,ve started Woody,s journal and in the first 10 mins of us being awake he had drank half a pint of water, he has had 2 pints of water so far, also his hunger has continued today, so I decided to feed him little and often throughout the day to see if that would help, and it hasn,t. As I type this he is currently pawing his dish, barking and whining for food I,m doing my best to ignore him, but god its hard. I,ve tried to distract him by letting him out in garden didn,t work, playing with him worked for oh a nano second then back to the dish.

Why do they look at you like you are starving them :( I will need to speak with the vet about this.

Do you think that Woody would snack on some carrots and/or frozen green beans? If so, they could help with his hunger.

Be careful with carrots as they have quite a bit of sugar in them. Frozen green beans are a great option.

I don't know if this would help you, but I add some cooked lentils to Tipper's food in place of some of her nuggets every time I feed her. It seems to fill her up more from the fiber, but low on calories, and not gassy, helps maintain her weight. I buy the dried ones and cook them, it doesn't take long and I keep some in the freezer. This was told to me by a highly regarded vet. Blessings
Patti

Well finally spoke with the IMS tonight, didn,t get a chance to write much down as I was at work (on the backshift) this week. He has discussed Woody,s results and case with my own vet and the head of the department, its a teaching hospital.

His first question which I thought was a bit strange was "you will no doubt be testing Woody for cushings in the future" I asked him why would I if he was adamant Woody didn't have cushings, he said at this point he was sure he didn't have it. He asked me a lot of questions like his eating, drinking, peeing, was woody a sick dog, his tempremant, his moods, his stools, did he eat grass, his weight, his past history, and much more. I gave all the information asked for and he came up with some suggestions:
Re- test woody,s urine for any UTI (already tested twice) just incase there are any "bugs" not already detected in it.
DI - He doesn't think this is what Woody has as his urine is not diluted enough yet. He also thinks with Woody,s stress behaviour in a vet environment that doing the deprivation test would be too hard on him, which I agree.
Ultrasound - possible ultrasound of his bladder and kidneys to see if anything there. There is a local surgery to me which can do it.
Psychogenic poloydipsis - he doesn't think Woody has this as ususally dogs with this suffer from manic ocd behaviours and woody doesn't.

When I explained to him that only a few days ago I had found what looked like calcium deposits on Woody,s left elbow and today found some more on his right elbow, he began to talk about Thryoid problems. Now Woody has had this checked he had his T4 and T3 checked and all was ok, The IMS is going to look into this.

So I am no further forward in what is wrong with my boy, I have to think about all this and give him a ring on Monday with what I want to do. So question I will get the US done, but would you do that first or do the urine testing first. He did say if all of the above came out negative he would probably try and just treat Woody for DI and see if that "cures" the problems.

This is all I remember from the call, as I said had no chance to write it down.

Tracy & Woody x

Tracy,

ultrasounds can tell them quite a lot and may help to determine what is going on. I would do this and the urine test as well.

This can be a really long drawn out process unfortunately. I hope that an ultra sound will help get you some answers, as I know first hand how confusing and frustrating all this can be. Take care and I hope you get some good solid answers for Woody. Blessings
Patti

Just wanted to chime in and let you know that unless there is a reason for watching natural sugars in the diet, like diabetes, then carrots are a great treat. The type of sugars found in carrots and other veggies like sweet potatoes is much, much preferable to the kind of sugars found in say a piece of pizza crust or sandwich crust. In my book, everything in a carrot is preferable to commercial dog treats. So unless there is a medical reason to watch such things in the diet, carrots are just fine as a treat. ;)

Hi all

Well Woody is just the same drinking,peeing eating like no tomorrow. I know give him a carrot when I need to. His weight gain is starting to really worry me as when lying down he looks like a beached whale.

I am going to go for the ultrasound as soon as I can save the money (should be within the next two weeks). But I'm really apprehensive about this as the last time I got a US done on my old dog it was a tumour and he died 2 months later :( I know Woody is. Different dog but still can't help thinking what if.

Question for you what will they scan my vet said kidneys, bladder would I need to ask them to scan his liver and adrenals what else would I need to ask or other places for them to scan sorry I know that sounds a bit stupid but I want to be prepared. I went into panic mode with my last dog at his US and after they said tumour I heard nothing else so I need to be prepared to ask, even demand the right things for Woody

Tracy

I would ask for all the vital organs. including the adrenals, Heart, spleen, liver, bladder, gall bladder.

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Originally Posted by Woodydog

Hi all
Question for you what will they scan my vet said kidneys, bladder would I need to ask them to scan his liver and adrenals what else would I need to ask or other places for them to scan sorry I know that sounds a bit stupid but I want to be prepared. I went into panic mode with my last dog at his US and after they said tumour I heard nothing else so I need to be prepared to ask, even demand the right things for Woody

Tracy

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All the internal organs, as John mentioned, should be viewed and hopefully both the right and left adrenal glands will be visualized.

One important thing I want you to know is that there are never any questions asked that we would deem stupid. Always feel free to ask any and all the questions you want, ok? ;)

Love and hugs, Lori

Absolutely, what Lori said, no stupid questions here.

I did find out something from an internal medicine specialist here last week that you might be interested in.
When dogs have Diabetes Insipidus, their urine concentrate will usually be much lower than what is seen with cushings, under 1.008. That wasn't something that I knew about before.

Definitely ask to for what John mentioned, the internal organs. Might not be any tumors, so don't go there yet in your mind. Could be anything and then again, maybe nothing will show up.

We have another dog on the forum that is also a mystery with peeing, etc, ultrasound is fine, just a bit of enlargement on the liver that is likely from a medicine it was on. It is not unknown to have a hard time figuring out what is going on with these pups of ours. :( I wish it was much easier to figure out.

Hang in there.
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Tracy:
You are doing a good job with Woody. I am sorry you and he are having these issues. I know what you mean about them looking like beached whales when laying down. I think part of that look is from the muscle loss. The muscles used to hold the rib cage up and in place and now it is really low and broad. My IMS said everything just kinda lets go and goes south. It is hard to see my Tipper this way, she was so muscular and built like a little truck. I hope you are able to get answers with the ultra sound. Blessings
Patti

Hi all sorry I need to rant, I had a fallen out with my vet today :mad: I called him today to ask him to refer us for an Ultrascan as I,ve saved the money now. He doesn't think Woody needs one, after a long discussion of Woody,s symptoms and the fact that he isn't getting any better I wanted a US he wanted me to monitor woody for another 2 weeks then contact him again. I told him I wasn't going to do that as I wanted to know what was up with Woody he answered "maybe that is just Woody" I was gutted and politely hung up the phone. I,ve used this vet for 10 yrs and normally he is really good, I,ll have to wait till tomorrow till the locum vet Emma is in see if she will refer me.:( I don,t think my vet believes me.

In other news Woody is still the same, last week was really bad, he was very unsettled, drinking 3.5 pints of water and up most of the night peeing (although he is using the pee pads occasionally) ravenous hungry and can now open the fridge door so have had to put a child lock on it, he was also barking constantly for food even during the night, kept just pacing, the only way to settle him was to sit with him petting him. My neighbour mentioned to me that she hears Woody barking during the night, so I felt really bad about this, but she was fine once I explained everything but I try not to let him do it.

I,m kinda at my wits end and just feel like I keep hitting a brick wall at every turn :(

So sorry for this long drawn out diagnosis process for you and Woody.

Did you ever get a copy of the results of the LDDS test from your vet? It seems so strange that Woody is exhibiting such Cushinoid symptoms with a "normal" LDDS. We would love to see the actual numbers.

You might want to try a Thundershirt for Woody at night; it might help him calm down and give you (and your neighbor) a better night's sleep.

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Originally Posted by FemaleK9

So sorry for this long drawn out diagnosis process for you and Woody.

Did you ever get a copy of the results of the LDDS test from your vet? It seems so strange that Woody is exhibiting such Cushinoid symptoms with a "normal" LDDS. We would love to see the actual numbers.

You might want to try a Thundershirt for Woody at night; it might help him calm down and give you (and your neighbor) a better night's sleep.

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I,ve not managed to get his test results yet, I keep asking and getting asked why I want them and that they,ll send them to me but not got them yet will ask again tomorrow. I will look into a thundershirt for Woody he does have an equafleece which I believe is similar I may try that.:)

If I hadn't seen my own dog's results I wouldn't understand her condition half as well as I do.

If they ask again why you want to see them, I would answer with my own question, "Is there any reason why I shouldn't see them?" Their reluctance to let you see the results of the test you paid for make me wonder what it is that they don't want you to see.

While you're waiting for them to make a copy and mail it to you, perhaps they could just give you the numbers over the phone. There should be a least three numbers; pre-dex, 4 hours post-dex and 8 hours post-dex. Sometimes there is a 6 hour post-dex as well.

Goodness, I have just read through this whole thread and can't believe you are having to wait so long for some kind of diagnosis. You have every right to request a scan, you are a paying customer Tracy and they are not doing you a favour for free. Woody is your dog and its up to you to demand what you think he requires - if it turns out clear so what? You will be paying the bill and you have the say with your dog. You also have every right to get print outs of his results - all of them. You paid for those treatments/tests and they are yours. I have x rays of one of my boys, I asked for them and they e mailed them to me, they didn't ask why I wanted them because it's none of their business. Tracy, get in touch with The British Veterinary Association - phone them and tell them the problems you are having, they will often work as your advocate and contact your vet themselves, they did for me when a vet tried to stitch me up charging an excessive fee for hip scoring. The vet then did it for the £45 that it actually was, rather than the £110 he had asked me for.

It sounds like Woody desperately needs treatment, sounds like Cushings to me and quite honestly if I were you I'd be out of that veterinary practice like a bat out of hell. There must be another practice somewhere near you and remember that seeing Emma the locum probably won't bring much better results, she is just a locum and will be guided by her senior at the practice. You really need a different practice altogether.

This isn't the NHS where treatment is free (well sort of) you are a paying customer and should be treated with respect. I asked for print outs of all of Britches ACTH tests from my vet, going back two years - they haven't questioned me and the results are waiting there for me to pick up. Who does this vet of yours think he is? Stand up against him Tracy because he's treating you so disrespectfully. :mad:

http://www.bva.co.uk/contact.aspx
Or better still, the professional conduct department here:
http://www.rcvs.org.uk/about-us/contact-us/