My Pug Scoop (Precious Scoop has passed... )

Hi Vicki,

Cush pups need low FATS and moderate proteins. The carbs are more important in the diabetes picture than Cushing's.

Personally, I don't care for Hill's Science Diet of any variety, prescription included. They are primarily corn and sodium. SD used to be an excellent feed when Dr. Morris was in control but when Nestle bought it out, they changed his formula and ruined a good feed to boost the profits by using cheaper ingredients, and LOTS of corn. However, diet is critical when dealing with diabetes, MUCH more so than with Cushing's so I will leave the recommendation to the folks at k9diabetes to direct you with Scoop's diet.

How is he doing today?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Hi Leslie,
Thanks for that info. It's terrible to say but I think the vets push the Hill's products. I did notice the first ingredient is corn. I also saw recalls from the spring, not the W/D. Which really makes you wonder about them. I had watched a video on youtube with a Dr. Karen Becker(I think) and she has 3 parts about Cushing's and I thought she said it should be low carb, high protein. That's where I got that from. It makes me feel a little better that you think diet isn't as important for Cushing's as diabetes. I'm not crazy about the Hill's either. Tonight I will run it by the folks at the diabetes forum.

What food does your gang eat?

I wish I could say Scoop is doing good but I don't know if his eye sight is getting worse. He's had more problems with that today. He also is not very energic today or yesterday except when it's time to eat. Thanks for asking about him.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

My gang? Weeellllll, they get white turkey, beef liver, sardines, cod, salmon, dark chicken, quinoa, brown rice, sweet potatoes, lentils, green beans, yogurt, eggs, butternut and acorn squash and coconut oil along with multiple individual vitamins, minerals, and supplements. Me? I get peanut butter, cracker and cheese. :p

I home cook for mine based on diets designed especially for each one according to their individual health needs - each diet is different. They also get kibble, dry feed - at the moment Natural Balance Duck and Sweet Potato or Fish and Sweet Potato. If I'm not on the computer, I'm in the kitchen...and seldom cooking for ME! :D But, they are worth every penny and every second and every twinge of pain all that standing causes, and I'll continue as long as I possibly can because I believe this is the best way to feed my babies. ;)

Finding the best diet for our babies can be an interesting, confusing, conflicting, opinionated, enlightening journey. The one thing to keep in mind is this - each pup is a unique biological system so what works well for my Squirt could make Scoop sick as all get out. There is a great deal of trial and error in finding what works best, but the effort is worth it when we see our babies become stronger, look better, act younger, and have fewer vet visits for problems like digestion, among other things.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Leslie,
Thanks. Oh my! You have your hands full!
I enjoyed reading that. I wouldn't mind doing that for my guys knowing it would be healthier for them. You just don't know about some of this stuff you are buying. I cook a boneless, skinless chicken breast about every other day for my guys but that's nothing compared to what you do.
Thanks again. That was very interesting.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

i home cook as well! I make about 3 weeks at a time and freeze it. Always have some thawing so they dont need warmed up long. i place in crock pot boneless skinless chicken breast, I cook rice on stove top and use frozen green beans, and for snack she gets about 3 T pumpkin. I add in her omega fatty oils, an over all supplement called Balance it, and fortiflora probotic and actually the nutritionist has me add corn oil........weird i know. however some part of corn is good........not all parts are. It gives her the fat needed but not to much as she needs low fat, not high protein because her pancreas or kidneys could not handle that either. So the oil helps meet needs where other things cant be added. The only food of hills she did okay on was R/D. Vets will always push what they sell because they get kick backs on it. and say its all the best.....however most general practice vets have very little educational training in nutrition. They believe what the reps of dog food companies tell them. I love Dr. karen Becker..........I watch many of her videos and she has some great books out too. My little girl will probably be having eye surgery very soon.........indolent ulcer.........what is wrong with your babies eye?

Hi Stormee,
Sounds like a delicious meal your little girl gets. I find listening to Dr. Karen Becker very interesting. I'll have to check out her books.

My Scoop has catracts from his diabetes. His eyes are getting worse. I wish your little girl all the best with her eye surgery. Hope everything goes well.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Scoop had his second ACTH test yesterday. I'm confused. Scoop's first test results-pre:6.2, there were two post draws. The first post was 13.5, the second was 16.7.
Yesterday's results -pre:7.4 One post this time:15.2
I said to the vet I didn't remember the numbers from the first one and she said the 13.5 post draw so that would mean the numbers have gone up. Scoop's Vetoryl had increased after the last test from 20mg to 30mg. I was going to ask if anyone knows what would cause that to happen. I just read that it looks like Boriss is having that problem too.

Can anyone explain what the pre draw number means. What causes that number to change and is there a number that is normal for the pre draw? The vet wants Scoop to go to 40mg but a split dose-20mg morning, 20mg evening. She asked me how many 30mg I have left so she said we can wait till those are all till we start the 40mg. Do you think that it is OK to wait? Sure wish the Vetoryl came in 20mg.

The last few days Scoop's been having problems. Scoop has cataracts and the vet thinks he can't see out of the right eye at all and thhe left is getting worse. The last few days he's been having a lot more trouble. He has a hard time finding me when I call him. He looks in the wrong direction. He walks in the wrong direction when we are outside and I say we are going to go in. He has arthritis in both front legs. Today he had some problems with that. Tonight after his supper he walked through the dining room like he was staggering. He walked up to the closet door and just stopped for a second then walked away. Very unsteady. He sleeps on the couch at night and always walks back and forth from one end to the other at least a few times each night, like he can't get comfortable. Tonight he moved one time, very unsteady. I say to myself, his eyesight is getting worse, his arthritis is acting up but he really has me scared tonight. Could things like this be signs of a macro? Boy, it's scary!
Thanks for any thoughts on this.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scoora

Scoop had his second ACTH test yesterday. I'm confused. Scoop's first test results-pre:6.2, there were two post draws. The first post was 13.5, the second was 16.7.
Yesterday's results -pre:7.4 One post this time:15.2
I said to the vet I didn't remember the numbers from the first one and she said the 13.5 post draw so that would mean the numbers have gone up. Scoop's Vetoryl had increased after the last test from 20mg to 30mg. I was going to ask if anyone knows what would cause that to happen. I just read that it looks like Boriss is having that problem too.

---

Sometimes it can take a bit of "tweaking" of the Vetoryl dose to arrive with in the therapeutic ranges. How are Scoop's symptoms, have any of them abated?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scoora

Can anyone explain what the pre draw number means. What causes that number to change and is there a number that is normal for the pre draw? The vet wants Scoop to go to 40mg but a split dose-20mg morning, 20mg evening. She asked me how many 30mg I have left so she said we can wait till those are all till we start the 40mg. Do you think that it is OK to wait? Sure wish the Vetoryl came in 20mg.

---

The pre blood draw is the resting cortisol reading. Any type of stress, anxiety, pain, etc. can cause the pre to be high. When treating with Vetoryl one always wants the pre number to be >/= to 1.45 ug/dl.

I think it is fine to wait until the 30mg capsules are used up, just a gentle reminder that an ACTH stimulation test should be done 10-14 days after any dosage change is done.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Morning Vicki,
It is such a bummer when it isn't working the right way. :(
The vet told me I could wait until Boriss finished out the 30 day supply of 30mgs before we upped the dose.
I am not sure. but, I think that is what most people do because things could change within the 2 week time frame with the 30mg.
I chose not to wait & to add another pill because I could tell Boriss was miserable.
So, currently he is taking a 30mg pill & a10mg pill in the morning only.
We might end up going to twice a day as well. We are trying to see if we can get it controlled with once a day dosing first. fingers crossed...

I don't think you have anything to worry about with Scoop. My vet explained that is just takes time & tweaking for some dogs until you find just the right dose. She wasn't worried at all. It just makes me upset to see Boriss miserable.

I hope we can both figure this out for our pups soon. I feel like I am on a roller coaster right now.:eek:

Also I saw you mentioned about finishing out your 17 days on the 30mgs & then switching to twice a day on the 20mgs.

I know it gets expensive & I am still new at this. But, I would think your vet would want to test again before you start the new dose.
But, it could be that Scoop is like Boriss. The numbers were so high that it is safe to go ahead without a test?

Anyone else have input on this with experience? I just might be an over worrier & do more test than necessary. :rolleyes:

Hi Lori, Thanks Scoop's water consumption has decreased so his having to go out has decreased. Today his water consumption was only 12oz. That's scary. He was not himself today. That water amount is too low for an 18lb. dog, isn't it? He still has his big appetite. The fur on his neck seems to be longer. I think he has grown some hair there and on his belly. There are some strands of hair here and there on his belly which weren't there before. I also dont think he has the pot
belly anymore.
Thanks again for your explanation.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

The usual water consumption for a dog is 1 oz per pound but other things can factor into that such as if the dog is getting canned food (because of the moisture content) or if water/liquid is being added in another way, such as with broths or cooked rice, pasta, etc.

Do you find that Scoop's symptoms seem to increase in the evening?

I always have had problems getting Molly to drink the amount recommended for body weight. She is on a special SO diet which encourages her to drink more, which helps prevent crystals that she is prone to from forming. So in our case, we're actually want diluted urine, yet have to worry about cushings coming on and her liver values too. It's enough to give a person more than a few grey hairs.
If they don't drink enough though, you can always add some broth or water to their food and make it soupy.

hugs,
Sharlene

Amy-I hope Boriss is doing well on his new dose. You're probably right. The vet probably thinks Scoop's numbers were high enough to not retest after finishing the 30mg. I don't know if I want to wait that long to change the dose. I would like to see how things go on a split dose. I thought I read somewhere that diabetic dogs should do twice a day dose. The vet wants to try to get his appetite under control.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Lori-Scoop's symptoms don't change throughout the day. They are pretty much the same all day. I called the vet's office and asked them to check with the vet that was working if she thought 12oz of water was low for Scoop. She said no it was fine. He drank 15 oz today. It just seems so weird. I'm used to the 20oz, 30oz, even some 40oz of water. Scoop's vet talked to a specialist about Scoop and I think the specialist might have suggested the split dose.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Sharlene, That's a good idea about adding some water to the food.

Hello! if his eyesight continues to decline.....heres a suggestion to start trying now....put scented candles about in yard....different scents so he can relate that scent to where he is in yard. and you can do that in your home too. just little votive candles. sort of helps makes a path for them.
on his arthritis have you tried adequinn injections? i have seen miracles with those. also a great supplement is cosesquinn double strength sprinkle capsules. And to help keep him from getting stiff.......massage massage massage, and if you can get him to walk like on air mattress, good exersise, and help keep him strong and mobile. Worse case..........i know someone who knows how to make front end and rear end carts to help our babies stay mobile. (he makes them and donates them to those in need)
On shysies ACTH her results were Pre 6.0 and Post 16.3

Hi everyone-Does anyone have experience with or thoughts about DMSO? Scoop's vet talked to a dermatologist about Scoop's calcinosis cutis. He said he has had some success with using DMSO. How do they test the calcinosis cutis? The specilist also said he puts them on long term antibiotics.
Thanks for any help.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Stormee-Thanks for all the great suggestions. I'll have to write them down so I can remember them. I just talked to the vet about the injections. She said she can do that. She said she has had success with them. Scoop takes Cosequin capsules two times a day but I don't know if they are double strength. I'll have to check that out. That's really nice that your friend makes those carts and donates them to those in need. What a sweetheart.
Thanks again.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Hi Vicki,

We have had members use the DMSO for CC. I hope they will be along to share their experiences with you. Meantime, here are some links that will tell you about DMSO.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

DSMO info
http://www.dmso.org/

http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

http://www.herpes-coldsores.com/dmso.pdf

http://www.bevanpotter.com/DMSO_bp.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1124535

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1249191

http://books.google.com/books?id=CvH...0cutis&f=false

http://www.itchnot.com/images/_7_Endocrine_Alopecia.pdf

Leslie-Thank you so much for all the links about DMSO. I will check them out.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Hi Vicki, how is Scoop doing? is his water intake more stabilized now? Hope all is well

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

stopping by to see how you and baby are!!!

Hi everyone-Things are not good. First we had to deal with no power for almost 6 days but I would gladly deal with that if my Scoop was doing good. The vet cultured his calcinosis cutis. It has 2 infections and one is resistant to a lot of antibiotics. So the antibiotic has to be compounded and I have to wear gloves to give it to him. That is scarey stuff. I also put DMSO on it too, more gloves. Scoop lost more weight and is not doing good. Last week I took him to see an IMS and a Neurologist. Tomorrow he goes back for an ultrasound of his abdomin and an MRI of his head. I'm so scared but I need to find out. I love him so much and it hurts so much. I hope everyone will please keep Scoop in your thoughts and prayers. Thank you.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Oh Vicki, I'm so sorry about everything you guys have been going through. Please do let us know as soon as you learn anything more from the new test results.

In looking back through your thread, I see you were planning to increase Scoop's trilostane dose after his last ACTH came back higher. Is he taking more trilo now, or is the IMS wanting to wait to see these new test results first?

Sending many hugs to you and your sweet boy,
Marianne

Vicki,
I hope you find the answers you are seeking about Scoop. It is just so hard not knowing and wanting to do the best for our babies. Let us know what the IMS/Neurologist finds out. Good luck!!

Oh poor little Scoop. :( How horrible to have to be dealing with a very resistant infection. That is worrying of course but hopefully will be cleared up. I know it is scary not knowing what the tests will show but like you said, you'll know at least what is going on. Once you know, then maybe there will be a plan that you can come up with along with your vet and IMS. I certainly hope so. Do let us know what they say.
Is the Diabetes under control still?

Big Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Please say a prayer for my Scoop. He is having surgery this morning. He has a problem in his middle ear. There is something in there. It's either infection or a tumor. Praying for a good result. I am so scared.
Marianne-yes, Scoop's trilo went up to 40mg on Sat.

Love you so very much Scoop!
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Oh my gosh Vicki! Tons of prayers going out to Scoop and you. I am so sorry you both are going through all of this. Know that all the Angels here will be with you today.

Love and hugs,

Tina and Jasper

Hi Vickie,

Oh, honey, I know how scared you are right now. I remember well when Squirt had her tumor removed. The abject terror that consumes us, those horrible racing thoughts...the whole kit and kaboodle is just awful. To keep my mind busy, I worked my butt off that day in the house, spit and spot shining, scrubbing, mopping, anything I could think of to do. It helped and I did such a good job I didn't have to clean house for a MONTH! :cool::D:rolleyes::p Well, ok...maybe it could have USED a cleaning but.....;)

We are all with you, sending prayers and strength to you and to Scoop. Let us know how he is as soon as you can....and remember, you are not alone.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Leslie-Just wondering. Where was Squirt's tumor located?

I wish I was there with Scoop right now. My husband and I left him at the hospital last night after his ultrasound and MRI. The hospital is an hour away. I wish I could have held him this morning. I regret not going there this morning. I think his surgery will be around 10:00. They had another surgery scheduled before Scoop's. I wish I would have gone. I got more upset after the surgeon called me a little while ago and explained things to me. It was nice of her to call since we didn't get to talk yesterday. Scoop has a lot of issues with his Cushing's and diabetes on top of this. I wish I would have taken him for the MRI a couple months ago. Now I am so very scared. I feel like I am going to fall apart. I want to hold my Scoop. Please come home to us Scoop. We love you very much Scoop!

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Squirt's tumor was on her spleen. She had the tumor and half her spleen removed. It was a scary time but she came out of it all just fine and I am praying Scoop has the same results today.

I was so bad about calling the hospital, they finally set a schedule for me - times of the day and night that they would call me with updates. Something about needing to do things other than tell me she was ok apparently. :rolleyes: What could possibly have been more important??? ;)

The worst part, tho, was the time we had to wait before the actual surgery, knowing that tumor was in there and could rupture at any second. I was terrified to pick her up but I had to carry her up and down the stairs. Getting to the surgery was a weird sort of relief. Getting a negative, no cancer, path report was the best news ever! Then after the surgery and her recovery to learn that her cortisol had returned to normal made it all that much better. A horrible few weeks that brought so much positive into our lives. This is what I am wishing and praying for you and Scoop today.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Prayers for your Scoop today. Poor baby..

oh my gosh. I'm sure you are a wreck having to wait on results and you know that we are all waiting with you, hugs and prayers and as many positive thoughts as we can produce are going out for you and Scoop and your family. I hope this is going to be a non-issue. Poor little scoop doesn't need to be dealing with anything else and neither do you.
Isn't there some rule about peace and tranquility through the holidays? :(

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Vicki, I am thinking about you and Scoop and keeping the prayers going. I so understand how scared you are. Praying for good results.

Hugs from me and Jasper

Have you heard anything yet about Scoop?

hugs, Sharlene

I hope that everything went okay with the surgery. A little worried here.
Let us know when you can.

hugs,
Sharlene

I am worrying too Sharlene. Vicki, I have been thinking about you and Scoop all day and keeping you in my prayers.

Hugs,

Tina

Hi Vickie,

Worrywart checking in on you and Scoop. When you can, let us hear from you, honey.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Add me to the list too! hugs, Judi