Crossing all our paws too for good news for Lulu. So glad surgery went well.
Sending hugs for all of you,
Addy
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Crossing all our paws too for good news for Lulu. So glad surgery went well.
Sending hugs for all of you,
Addy
You are just tooooo quiet! I would have been posting so much my laptop would have gone up in smoke if Squirt underwent these surgeries! :p
I am glad Lulu has done so well and hope the results are perfect! Please keep us informed...even if you don't wail and moan and carry on like I do. :p:rolleyes:
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
I thought I had posted Lulu's pathology results this morning, but I see that I must not have checked to make sure it was sent. Well here goes. Lulu got her stitches out yesterday and she was happy, the veterinarian was pleased, and we talked about having her retested for Cushings in a month. She pants at night when it's just a hint of warm. We do our best to keep it like a refrigerator in our room at night, and fall is coming with cooler temps.
The liver biopsy was benign, but she did have a grade II tumor mast cell, but the prognosis is good, in fact my research confirms Dr. Wilson's. He did excellent surgery.
************************************************** *
Below is the report I typed up this morning.
Okay, on Lulu and I am typing this into a Word Document, so that I can submit this to two Cushing Forums and to an AnneCollins.com weight loss web site, and other people interested in Lulu, our 11 yr. old yellow Labrador.
She had three masses removed Tue. Aug. 16, 2011. The largest mass, a ‘cyst’ that Dr. Wilson of Wilson Veterinary Hospital in Romeo, Michigan, aspirated and did not find any indication that it was cancerous after staining and looking under a microscope.
The mass which had grown since December of 2010 had been indicated by Lulu’s Port Huron Michigan veterinarian to keep a watch on. At this time, the Port Huron veterinarian had sensed that Lulu may have Cushing’s disease and suggested testing. We did this, though it can be costly, but is a viable for dogs that have more pronounced Cushing’s Disease symptoms. Lulu had increased water intake, frequent urinating, panting often which requires more ventilation, fans, a bit more air-conditioning, at times an aggressive appetite and in February experienced a much increased shedding of her fur.
Lulu hasn’t shed much since March of this year, though her fur coat has taken on a curlier and perhaps slightly coarser appearance on parts of her back. Perhaps her fur may grow back in this area. But she is still gorgeous and whether she has a permanent curly hairdo or again becomes a golden blonde is not that important and is very compatible with a loving and comfortable life.
Now Lulu’s three tumors, as well as a biopsy of her liver using ultrasound was done during the surgery.
We went in Sunday, Aug. 28, 2011 to have Lulu’s staples and stitches removed. She was very happy, and we let her bring her bright orange soft bone chewy into the vet hospital. I highly recommend doing this with your pet if they have doctor anxiety; it really helps reduce the nervousness. One other tip is DON’T park in front of the hospital if you can help it and it’s not an emergency. But rather park facing away from the building, because you see your dog is smarter than YOU are and ME!
Anyway, on to the pathology:
The liver showed a mild diffuse vacuolar change with several areas of benign nodular hyperplasia scattered throughout the parenchyma. Hematopoiesis is noted in very small amounts in the hepatic sinusoids. No significant inflammation appears.
The abdominal mass consists of a loosely demarcated and moderately cellular mast cell tumor which extends throughout the connective tissue stroma. There is mild to moderated secondary eosinophilic infiltrate throughout the mass. The tumor cells are well-differentiated, demonstrating abundant fine basophilic granules, minimal pleomorphic nuclei, small to absent nucleoli, and a mitotic rate of about 1 per 10 high power (400x) fields.
Microscopic Interpretation.
Liver: Moderate vacuolar hepatopathy with benign nodular hyperplasia
Abdominal mass: Mast cell tumor Patnaik grade II
(Low—well-differentiated type), complete excision
Additional tissue: No mast cell tumor is seen.
Comments: The liver lesions are typically incidental and may create a nodular appearance on ultrasound or grossly. I do not appreciate the presence of any hepatitis or hepatic fibrosis. Vacuolar change may be associated with a number of potential etiologies and is typically an incidental finding. There is NO EVIDENCE of mast cell tumor in the liver. (MY COMMENTS- THIS IS A GOOD THING)
Abdominal mass: The mitotic index is 1.
The tumor was classified as grade II with grade I being low grade, II being intermediate grade and III being high grade.
Grade I has the best prognosis with an excellent survival rate. Grade III has a poor prognosis. Grade II (which Lulu has been rated) is of course in between. I have heard (see below) that she would have an 80% favorable prognosis. BUT to even paint a rosier picture, Lulu has a LOW mitotic index of 1 (1 per high power (400x) fields. Mitosis is the process that body cells make new body cells, and it is ‘out of control’ mitotic division that cancer creates that is devastating to mammals that get cancer.
So in my conclusion and Dr. Wilson is very confident based on the laboratory findings, Lulu has a very good chance of living another 5 years. LOL
Now nothing in life is certain, and Lulu has lived the best of life, and she has probably had a better upbringing than my wife Linda and me. She has had a great 11 years with us. We found her when she was 4 months old as she came here on her own, though she had a collar. We never found out who owned her, and we checked newspapers, the neighborhood and bulletin boards. My wife had wanted a yellow Labrador girl and wanted to call her Lulu. That is how Lulu became ours.
The report goes on further to state that if we want to see an oncologist for additional consultation that they would help us find one if we wanted. We presently feel that at this time, with the great surgery of Dr. Wilson and the age of Lulu that currently we are not considering this. We will keep a watchful eye.
Below is from a website I found of a Dr. Dressler answering dog owner with mast cell tumors.
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Dr. Dressler January 9, 2010 at 7:32 am
William
the ultrasound is a good idea. Painless, good information. If the scan is clean a wide excision, as you brought up, is a very good idea. Vaguely 90% of grade 2 mast cell tumors are cured with a wide excision (no radiation). Median survival time of dogs receiving conventional veterinary care with grade 2 mast cell tumors having a mitotic index under five is 70 months. Mandy is 8 years old. 70 months added on to that is 13.5-14 years of age. This is perhaps a year under average life expectancy (as a guess) for a dog like yours, in other words, close to a full life. Bottom line, I would look at these stats and decide whether radiation makes sense for you in the overall analysis of life expectancy and median survival times.
“However, there is some concern that even if they perform the second surgery, the pathologist won’t be able to determine conclusively if there are “clean margins.”” This is due to micrometastasis:
http://www.dogcancerblog.com/dog-can...hy-do-we-care/
Hope this helps,
Dr D
All right, it was time for Lulu's ACTH test, so let me go through what the printed results show, because I'm not sure how to interpret. Dr. Wilson has said that she needs no medication at this time as results were low. On Oct. 6 Lulu had the one hour test. Her Pre-ACTH was 2.8 ug/dl and her Post-ACTH was 3.5 ug/dl.
ACTH Reference Range:
2-6 ug/dl for the Pre-ACTH
6-18 ug/dl for the Post-ACTH
>22 Post-ACTH Cortisol consistent with hyperadrenocorticism
<2 Post-ACTH cortisol consistent with hypoadrenocorticsm
1-5 Desired pre- and post-ACTH cortisol on Lysodren therapy.
The report goes on to say: ACTH response test is only clearly positive (>22) in 30% of dogs with hyperadrenocorticism (HAC); equivocally positive in another 30% of dogs with HAC, and normal in 40% of dogs with HAC. If the ACTH response test is normal and HAC is still suspected, proceed with a low-dose dexamethasone suppression test.
It goes on to describe dogs with iatrogenic Chshing's disease.
The report also showed gross lipemia on the pre and post specimens, requiring ultracentrifuation. Fasting wasn't required, though Lulu did have some breakfast.
On Oct. 18 Lulu had a fasting urine sample with normal specific gravity of 1.045 thought cloudy turbid with some cocci bacteria. She had normal electrolytes, with the chloride slighty elevated, but not a concern.
Lulu is doing well, after her surgery and her symptoms of Cushing's are not as pronounced. I asked the vet if Addison's could be a possibility and he said it could, but did not recommend any prednisone at the time based on her test results.
Lulu does have some limping the last few days I have treated with Deramaxx and gentle massaging of her legs. She had tpl surgery on both back legs 6 years ago.
Lulu has a thundershirt which we have used for high pitched smoke alarm type sounds she hates. We haven't had a good storm to test her. She likes her coat as we have tested on her when she has gotten upset.
So glad Lulu is doing good - thank God she found such wonderful parents!! Will be checking in on Lulu to see how she progresses and ?? of Addisions -
2-6 ug/dl for the Pre-ACTH and 6-18 ug/dl for the Post-ACTH are reference ranges for healthy dogs that do not have Cushing's and are not being treated with either Trilostane/Vetoryl or Lysodren/Mitotane.Quote:
Originally Posted by LabDad
1-5 Desired pre- and post-ACTH cortisol on Lysodren therapy are the reference ranges for a Cushingoid furbaby being treated with Lysodren/Mitotane.
Is Lulu on Lysodren? If she has not had Lysodren for a period of time than her ACTH results would concern me a bit.
Dog's with Cushing's disease will usually not have concentrated urine and seeing that Lulu's USG is 1.045 is confusing to me but it doesn't take much to confuse me! :eek::)Quote:
Originally Posted by LabDad
So happy to hear that Lulu is doing so well and please keep us posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by LabDad
Love and hugs,
Lori
Thanks Lori. I will try to keep informed more on disease. Lulu has not had ant drus for Cushings since January. I am wondering abt the 8 hr. Test some time in the future? I aam going to monitor her water intake this winter to see how much she drinks. She should drink abt 2 liters a day for her 85 lb. Weight.
I took Lulu to the vet one week ago because her front left paw she was limping on we saw what looked like a cut paw. This was strange because it came all of a sudden and not really inflamed and she didn't like us looking at it. The vet came back with a relieved Lulu, who had a corn that was a quarter inch long and narrow which had been growing causing it to push into her paw. She is walking much better, with an occasional misstep because it is still a bit sore.Quote:
Originally Posted by LabDad
We take her with us from (Port Huron area) to Cleveland tomorrow, since I have a every two year surgery I had for Colitis 25 years ago. We will be staying at the same nice Red Roof Inn nearby we were at two years ago after visiting with some Cleveland friends of ours.
Just a quick note, to say that Lulu is doing well. She thinks she is a pup, and I don't tell her otherwise. She had to have surgery for the corn, which turned out to be a non-viral wart I believe. Then she has had a chalazion cyst in her left eye which the vet has squeezed twice. I'm afraid she will have to have it removed surgerically.
Though I think Lulu may still have symptoms of Cushings she hasn't had any medicine for it in over a year. She seems to be coping well, though I do watch her water intake, and of course she has healthy appetite. She has stayed in good shape, and physically she appears to be as healthy or more so than she was a year ago.
I will arrange for the two hour test when I can get a chance. It's funny with the surgery she had in last year, her fur started to grow back and then it seems stunted in parts. It doesn't look bad, and I wonder if that is permanent?
You know it's what is best for the pet, and sometimes if the disease isn't serious sometimes no treatment may be better than treatment. I'm taking it day by day! :)
Thanks so much for the update on Lulu. If Lulu is not displaying strong symptoms than not treating is a choice I would probably make myself.
Please do keep us posted and wishing you both the best of luck.
Love and hugs,
Lori
So glad to hear Lulu is doing so well! That is fantastic!
My Hannah has only mild symptoms and is doing pretty well, so I also have chosen not to treat at this point.
Thanks for sharing the great news!
Julie & Hannah
So glad you gave an update on Lulu. Sounds like she is doing good for all she has gone through....way to go Lulu:)
Keep us updated...nice to hear good news
Thanks for the update on Lulu - and what a great update it is! :D
If her signs are not obvious and she seems strong and happy, I would hold off treatment, too. I think you are taking a wise approach. ;)
Please to check in and let us know how she is doing.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
I see that I haven't posted on this thread in a year, and we have been lucky in having Lulu another year. She had a long overdue retest of her Cushing Disease and the 8 hour Low Dex test the vet surprised me with a week ago Tuesday. Well I was glad to have this test, and at 96 dollar, send the results to Michigan State that was money well spent, a bargain! Well the results were high after 8 hours, normal before, with a result of 140 with 0-30 the norm. The doctor has okayed the Trilostane, a powder that would be put into 50 capsules for just over 200 dollars, I believe 50 days worth. Now I am not sure the directions of the vet, will have to make sure I check. I know after a week she is to have an ACTH check. Now I read that the drug is Vetoryl. I'm not sure how much more it would be. Does anyone have experience with either of these. I believe the doctor said the dosage would be started low. We do have a person that is going to pay for this, at least until I get started working again full-time. This is a big cost. I do want the quality of Lulu's life to be better. She is handling pretty well, but she definitely come back with classic symptom. Fur that doesn't grow back quickly, water drinking, very hungry and panting. She has a bit more weakness in her legs, so even though she is 12 years old she has been a very strong dog, still shows she is tough, but we see that she needs the proper medicine.
I just wonder as the vet wants to put her on Trilostane, have others had good results with this? Is the cost that much more with Vetoryl?
Just going to say hi here. I haven't posted much on Lulu, but she has been on Trilostane since July 7, 2012. Wow, it seems longer than a month. But she is doing much better. She doesn't pant as much and her eating is down. She still has some trouble with her back legs, but I think there is improvement. I have her on Dasuquin glucosamine, chondroitin with MSM. I highly recommend it to all senior dogs that are having a bit of trouble with their limbs. I will call the vet this week to schedule a one month recheck of her two hour ACTH test. :)
So glad to hear that Lulu is doing so well. I was just wondering if you could tell us what dose of Trilostane Lulu is taking and could you remind us of her weight?
Trilostane is the active ingredient in Vetoryl. Many members use a compounded form of Trilostane and are having great success with it plus it does cost a lot less that the brand-name Vetoryl.
Has Lulu had a stim test done after being on Trilostane for 10-14 days? If so, could you post those results, thanks! Did your vet tell you to give the Trilostane with food and that the stim test needs to be done 4-6 hours after the dosage of Trilostane?
If you have any questions please feel free to ask, and here's a handy link to Trilostane info: Trilostane/Vetoryl Information and Resources
Love and hugs,
Lori
How are the hot spots doing? Let us know what you learn with the ACTH! This isn't the first one since starting the Trilo is it? Lulu should have had one at 10-14 days....if not, you may want to get her in soon. ;)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Really quickly now, at a job site, but Lulu pre ACTH test was 3.3 ug/dl and Post-ACTH 1.8 ug/dl. Reference range is 2-6 pre and 6-18 post. So the vet was happy with results. Lulu was scheduled for another ACTH test but we are postponing for a month. I am switching pharmacies for the 100 mg. trilostane. We got 50 pills for 240 dollars total 20 miles away very convenient, but still expensive. We ordered the next 50 from a place in Kentucky and will start her on these within a week. Lulu weights about 81-87 lbs. She appears to be doing much better. Her hind leg(s) does give her some problems, but seems to be getting better. She seems less Cushing's but she still has her moments. Seems to be a quieter dog more. I have stopped giving her morning melatonin for the moment. I am wondering if that might be adding to her more docile nature. But all and all she is more like her old self again.
More later. Hope I answered most questions. I do give Lulu her trilostane about half hour after breakfast and roll it in some sliced cheese. I didn't know about having the 2 hour ACTH 6-8 hours after getting trilostane. I will ask Dr. Booth/ Dr. Wilson about that.:)
hi Lulus dad,
so glad to hear your girl is doing well on her treatment. you may want to price out several online vet pharmacies and end up with a ton of savings. I know I did. Here are two.
Valleyvet.com 800-419-9524
Diamondback 866-578-4420
BTW, i give my girl her Vetoryl immediately with her morning meal. I've learned here it is best to give with food for better absorption and to avoid tummy upsets. As to the stims, This is the 2nd thread I have read indicating having the test performed within 2 hours after dosing, wherein I have always been recommended to do 4 to 6 hours post pill. That is how I've always had her stims done. Hope someone can reconfirm this for us.
good luck to you and Lulu and may I add my gratitude to your uncle for his sacrifices for our country. My husband is sgt 1st class US Army, deployed 1 yr in Iraq in 2004.
Warm regards. Jeanette and Princess
The reference range seems high to me, how long has Lulu been on this new dose?Quote:
but Lulu pre ACTH test was 3.3 ug/dl and Post-ACTH 1.8 ug/dl. Reference range is 2-6 pre and 6-18 post. So the vet was happy with results.
We have never done the 2 hour ACTH test. We have always done the one hour test 4-6 hours after the dose. The first draw is done for the pre, injection of stimulating agent is done and second draw for post is done hour later.
Hopefully our administrators will be along soon to clarify.
Glad to hear Lulu is feeling better. I am just a tad nervous with her post at 1.8 and no more stims for a month but I am sure the experts will chime in on all of this so hang in there. They know far more than me:):):):)
Hi,
The reference range is incorrect for a dog on Trilostane (Vetoryl). The range for these pups is 1.45 to 5.4 ug/dl and can go up to 9.1 ug/dl if all signs are under control. The post number of 1.8 ug/dl is getting down there so keep an eye on her for any signs that her cortisol is lower than is comfortable for her.
The optimal time to test a pup on Vetoryl is 4-6 hours after the last dose and the dog should NOT be fasted.
Keep up the good work!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
We have our new pills, and I believe by Sunday or Monday I will have started her on these pills. Will keep an eye on. The vet, Dr. Booth wants to wait a month to redo the 2 hour ACTH test.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirt's Mom
I do notice some periods of increased appetite and increased water intake. But much better than before.
Her legs, especially the hind legs are weak, but getting better. Some of this is psychology. As I have been transporting her up and down the basement via the walkin sliding door, thank goodness we don't have a Michigan basement! But she surprises me by coming upstairs to the second floor by herself, though her method of operation is to stay on a single floor for longer periods, usually she stays on the first floor while I'm at work, if I'm not at home working. :)
So glad she is doing better. Slow walks, getting longer, to build the leg muscles back up.
Hugs,
Sharlene
That is what I am finding. It's been two weeks on the new pharmacy compounded Trilostane. I am wondering if perhaps this pharmacy's preparation is not as strong as the more expensive local place we got the first 50 days!Quote:
Originally Posted by molly muffin
I have noticed that Lulu does still pant at night, though a bit less with the cooler weather. She owns the room fan and I always keep it on at least low speed directed toward her.
Too, I notice that she is a lighter sleeper. She could be dead to the world a year ago the senior citizen dog she is. But since being positive for Cushing's Disease again, could that be a symptom of or perhaps a side affect of the drug?
Her left rear leg is a bit weaker, so I keep up the glucosamine, occasionally give her Duramax for pain. and massage her leg. The back legs were operated on for ACL 7 years ago successfully. I am thinking I may have Dr. Wilson, same place that Dr. Booth is at treating her Cushing's now examine her legs. That and just plain old arthritis of an older dog can make it harder to walk.
A year ago she would still be able to walk 2 miles or a bit more, but now I am keeping it under 1/2 a mile, and sometimes less. She does have a harder time eliminating and has to squat a couple times or so to get it all out. LOL ;)
Hi, and I'm sorry that I have not had a chance to reply to you earlier about Lulu's first monitoring ACTH results:
As Addy mentioned earlier, Lulu's post-ACTH result was right at the very low end of what is acceptable for a dog being treated with trilostane. According to the manufacturer of brandname Vetoryl, the drug should actually be temporarily discontinued and then the dose lowered if the post-ACTH result drops any lower than 1.45 ug/dl. Since Lulu's test result was this low after only one month of treatment, I do worry that it may continue to drift downward even further in the coming month.Quote:
Really quickly now, at a job site, but Lulu pre ACTH test was 3.3 ug/dl and Post-ACTH 1.8 ug/dl.
Please do watch her very, very closely. If she exhibits any symptoms of low cortisol (lethargy, loss of appetitie, vomiting, diarrhea), I would stop the trilostane immediately and take her in for testing right away.
Marianne
I am going to call Dr. Booth and let him know her walking problems. I am a bit confused. So if the dosage were reduced or stopped even she might improve. I thought that the dosage would be started low and then to see how she is doing. I have a call in to Dr. Booth to express my concerns. Lulu is not throwing up. Her appetite is more normal and not as ravenous as it had been.
Sorry I was gone yesterday afternoon and didn't see your reply until this morning. I want to clarify that Lulu may be doing just fine on this dose of trilostane, and her rear-leg weakness may only be from arthritis that has been "unmasked" by her decrease in cortisol. But her 30-day post-ACTH result is low enough that you really do not want it to drop any further. Individual dogs metabolize the drug at different rates, so what may be a "low" dose for one dog may turn out to be a "high" dose for a dog of the very same weight. That is why the monitoring ACTH tests are so important in terms of making dosing adjustments. The initial dose is indeed calculated on the basis of weight (the makers of brandname Vetoryl recommend a formula of 1 mg. per pound). But that is just a starting point, and the dog's appearance, behavior and subsequent blood testing all guide the subsequent dosing.
I think it's great that you are seeing so many improvements in Lulu. And as I say, this dose and ACTH level may prove to be just fine for her. But I wanted you to be aware that you do not want her cortisol level to drop any further. If it does, you will need to decrease her dose. Here's a link to the U.S. Product Insert for brandname Vetoryl. It contains a lot of helpful info re: monitoring and potential side effects to watch out for:
http://www.dechra-us.com/files/dechr...ts/Vetoryl.pdf
Marianne
Thanks Labblab,
Thanks for the link. Lulu is scheduled for her ACTH test next Thursday morning. They said they want her from 9 am to 1 pm. So will work out good for me, as my project I am working on is 3 miles away.
I am thinking that most of the weakness in her back left leg is due to muscle weakness from Cushing's Disease. This happened a year and a half ago and got better when she went into remission. These back legs were operated on for ACLU 7 years ago which helps to complicate plus the fact that the vet then said she would get some arthritis too. I am thinking that massaging her back legs may be therapeutic to her. I help an guide her to go upstairs at night and also downstairs. There is a mid-landing so I make her stop there, even though she wants to do it in one fling. She can do the steps but now mostly waits for me. Even if it's just two steps sometimes! :)
Lulu has been having trouble eliminating and tends to get in position, but doesn't hold still when she poohs. She tends to walk it out. But lately she has been a bit constipated, and her stools tend to be a bit looser. I don't know if this is because of the trilostane, or just her muscles are weak yet from Cushings. She is going? Is there a good stool softener or something like Metamucil to give? I don't think she is having a blockage though I am watching just in case.
Metamucil or canned pumpkin (not the kind with spices for pies) can be used for constipation/diarrhea in dogs.
Here are two links that provide the dosages: Metamucil: http://www.vetinfo.com/dogmed.htmlPumpkin: http://www.earthclinic.com/Pets/constipation.htmlQuote:
We usually recommend using 1/4th teaspoonful of Metamucil per 20 lbs of body weight twice a day but there is a wide variation in recommended dosages and it is probably safe to use slightly more than this.
Hope Lulu feels better real soon...keep us posted!Quote:
Pets who weigh less than 15 pounds = 1 - 2 teaspoons
Pets who weigh 15 - 35 pounds = 1 - 2 tablespoons
Pets who weigh 35 pounds and up = 2 - 5 tablespoons depending on size
Love and hugs,
Lori
Hi Fred,
If the stool is loose, she isn't constipated. A constipated pup will have very dry, hard poop, go for several days or more without a BM, and strain to eliminate when they do go. I wouldn't take any action to help constipation if the stool is loose.Quote:
But lately she has been a bit constipated, and her stools tend to be a bit looser.
How is her appetite? Any accidents, more frequent urination, or more water intake lately? Any signs of nausea? Is she displaying more weakness in her back end in general? Has she eaten anything different lately? Any new meds, supplements or herbs? Has she been checked for parasites recently? Just some things to look at....
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
As a sidebar note to anybody who does use Metamucil with their dogs: just as is the case with humans, the Metamucil probably should not be given within two hours before or after any other medication. The Metamucil can affect the absorption/effectiveness of other drugs if they are taken too close together.
Marianne
Thanks we tried some pumpkin with Lulu, about 4 tablespoons as she is 82 lb. She had to be encouraged to use it, by putting in a couple of small treats, then she ate it all. I am going to take her out right now and see if she goes. The reason I think she is constipated is because she just goes a small bit. Sometimes she has a normal stool. But I haven't seen in the last couple of days. She may have gone on her own. But she is trying to go, often and she is straining. I just see a bit of stool and it is soft.
Her normal habits have been she waits to go until I walk her morning or evening. She will go and has a normal stool. Sometimes she will go again and that stool often is a bit softer.
She is having a hard time bending and going. She had major surgery on both back legs, ACL surgery. Now with the muscle weakness she is having, the same thing a year and a half ago when her Cushings was full-blown. I am thinking that, the extra assistance of a gentle laxative is all she needs. I will watch her. She isn't nauseous or vomiting. She eats okay, though her appetite is down since she has been on the medicine. She seems quiet now, and that is why I am taking her out to see if she is still trying to strain and go.
I will update here! :)
Good results with the pumpkin. Lulu had two bowl movements late this afternoon, and though soft, they were formed and just about normal size for her. I did not see her trying to go since. She almost did not get the first movement out as she tried to go without squatting. Then she did, and I can see she has a hard time doing this. I think Cushing's must also affect the muscles in the rectum too. She was a bit tired today, and rested. I did take her out for another walk after dinner and she did fine, and she did not have a need to squat. I am anxious for her to have her test, which is scheduled Thursday. :)
Hi there,
I only read the last several posts and have not gone back very far, but my dog has had some BM issues as well. My vet told me to give her about a 1/4 tsp. of Miralax (I gave a little less) twice per day and she is 12 lbs. She was not going often, and when she did, she would strain and push and her poops were hard. After the Mirolax they were a little softer and she was not straining. She sometimes has a little worm-like poop at the end that she has to strain to get out. Not sure what that is. Now she is on several meds and the poop is softer anyway so I am not adding the Mirolax.
Anyway, I was also wondering if you think there is any chance your dog has any back or leg pain. Hannah was having back issues and that made it really difficult to poop. She also has weak back legs, so I wasn't sure what the main issue was. She also sometimes would start to poop before squatting. She has had acupuncture and laser treatment several times for her back (and legs) and it has REALLY helped. She can maintain a squat again with no problem when she barely could go at a ll a few weeks ago. I don't know if laser or acupuncture are options for you, but I highly recommend it. I'm wondering if it is more pain from the position (either back or leg) rather than actually having difficulty defecating. Again, I didn't read back really far, so maybe this is not the issue, or something you already know, but I wanted to mention it in case it would help.
Hope things continue to improve regardless!
Julie & Hannah
Jmac, thanks for post. The pumpkin has worked. I looked at the link Harley PoMMom gave. I am thinking maybe a slight bit less tomorrow. Lulu has been more tired today. I have been concerned about her ACTH levels that I wonder if I should try to get her ACTH test moved from Thursday to Wednesday. I know it's only one day. But I want to know as soon as possible if her post level is lower. She laid around on the cool floor more today. But you know too I was home more. I will be tomorrow too.
I like the idea of acupuncture. There used to be a lady that did this in the Thumb of Michigan. I will have to look into. I know at Wilson's Hospital there is a therapy center across the driveway for dogs. So I could check there. But I'm not a rich person, so I don't think I could afford. Lulu has had ACL surgery on both back legs and that complicates the pain. Yes, she has some, the Cushing's, the affects of the ACL actually turns the bones so it gives the dog sort of like a bowed leg appearance, which happens after surgery but this gives the dog tighter connections for the bones and ligaments, hence they aren't crippled when they walk. The surgery was so successful in 2005-2006 that Lulu had to let the dog world know that she was Queen of the homestead. She would fly off the porch at night, especially during the cold and snowy winter evenings and bark at other dogs and herself, as her bark bounced off a neighbor's barn and she thought it was another dog! LOL.
And finally Dr. Wilson who performed the ACL surgery said she would still get arthritis.
So yes, the defecating problem is pain induced, and softening of the stool with pumpkin has helped today. I hope it continues to work tomorrow. I'm taking that one day at a time.
My main concern now is keeping a close eye on her, because I want to know what to do if she should become more tired before her next test and results are in.
She came up the stairs fairly good tonight and seemed relaxed, and she does pant a bit, so the fan is on. She seems comfortable and relaxed tonight. So will report again tomorrow. It's almost 11 pm. I want to do just 10 minutes of programming, for one of my jobs, and then set coffee up for morning, clean the kitty litter. Yes we have two beautiful blonde and reddish blonde cats, the same color as Lulu.
Sounds like you have a great plan!
I paid $80 per treatment for acupuncture and they said it is best to do 3-4 initially, one per week. So it was a bit pricey initially, but it really helped her and we didn't have to do it again for several months. The laser treatment is a bit cheaper than that here. I was paying $60 for one or $150 for 3, but at another vet they have a tech do it and it is $35 for one and $180 for 6. It can provide significant relief for arthritis too. That might be something to look into. My husband and I are both teachers so money is not unlimited for us. :) I am lucky we are able to do the acupuncture and laser treatments from time to time, but we are also not currently paying for meds or ACTH tests, which I know are pricey. Hannah has had a few rounds of acupuncture in the last year, but now the plan is to do something every month or two to maintain things, rather than to wait until she has another problem. It is certainly something you could check out and see what the cost is by you.
For now I am glad to hear the pumpkin worked. I have some in our cupboard for Hannah in case we need it. I hope Lulu will perk up, but I think it is great that you are watching her so closely in case she needs to be seen earlier. I'm sure someone else will come along to give you some good advice on that.
Julie & Hannah
I wanted to share an experience:
My Zoe has IBD/colitis so diahrrea is her usual problem. A few years ago her colitis flared and then she got constipated. She would go outside and strain to go and nothing would come out. Zoe would strain for a long time. When she would finally get something out, it was very loose stool, not alot. I took her to the ER and they said it was diahrrea. I told them this is not what normally happens to her and I also thought Zoe was constipated. The ER vet said no, so kept pressing and insisted on an xray and sure enough, she had stool blocked up. She was given a medicine, I dont rememebr which one, I could look for it in my notes, to soften her stools. It took us a few weeks to get normal again with normal stools and it never happened again.
If the pumpkin does the same thing, that is really good news. Julie has so good feedback on acupuncture.
Hope things keep improving.
Addy, glad things worked out, so to speak for Zoe. Lulu seems perkier today, though she has strained a bit. She has gone, and the stools are more formed, but slightly smaller in diameter. The pumpkin has helped so I am going to get my wife to measure out some more pumpkin. :)
I did call Dr. Wilson's office this morning and move the ACTH test from Thursday to Wednesday. That way maybe we can get the results before the weekend, and I just feel that each day is important. If the dosage needs to be changed or stopped I want to do it as soon as possible. :)
Lulu about the same. Good spirits. Tomorrow is her test, so will be up early for her. Let you know how she fared tomorrow evening. Pumpkin has been working fairly well, as she does eliminate and the continual straining is greatly reduced! Yeah!