Zoe By My Side- Our Journey with Cushings

Addy, all of this means is that our pups will frequently suffer from repeated infections that may be hard to get them to heal up. For instance, about the 6 months prior to my Harley's diagnosis, we had been fighting a recurring corneal ulcer. When we were at the IMS for his consult at diagnosis. darn, if his eye didn't look all gross, again. I asked the IMS if this repeated problem was probably due to the immune system being compromised from the Cushing's, she said yes.

When it comes to a raw diet, I fed both my boys Primal raw for over a year & they did fine. I pretty sure that Glynda (Lulu's Mom) feeds all of her pack Primal, including both of her Cushpups, & she swears by the food.

Debbie

okay, i am calming down now. I freaked when I read her food. the thing is, I believe I am doubting everything I did last year, the raw diet, the Armor supplement, the shen, because now she is sick with Cushings. Did I do this to her? I can't get that out of my mind. There, i finally said it out loud. Did I make my dog sick? She wasn't sick before this. I am now having a major meltdown. I only fed her turkey, i did not rotate protein, the holistic vet said keep her on turkey. i didn't even do it right.

I am so sorry, I can't type any more.
Addy

Addy, You didn't cause it.
You are not to blame, I blamed myself also. In 2003 Apollo had some kind of allergic reaction or was stung by a bee, wasn't home when it happened. That night his face starting swelling up, then he got hives all over his body, had to go to the emergency at 1a.m. -Superbowl weekend will never forget, he couldn't breath. He was put on so many medications over a few days-lots with steroids in it. He also has back problems was on prednisone on and off, allergy tablets.Then he started having hives, lumps on his little belly, ingrown hairs I had to squeeze out, it was bad. His belly turned grey, liver spots. I question myself if all this caused it. But the positive is he is still here. This disease sucks. Apollo had stomach problems for years, was always throwing up intermediately, he ate the back of my husband's dress shoe, socks, had a yellow string come out the other end once when he popped. I had to put him on a low fat diet because of the pancreatitis( the ultrasound showed scaring chronic pancreatitis), I also do holistic, with supplements and it did help Apollo for a while, the throwing up stopped his coat did get better for awhile. You do the best you can. They know it with the love they give you back. You need to ease up on yourself. Sending you hugs Sonja

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Originally Posted by addy

okay, i am calming down now. I freaked when I read her food. the thing is, I believe I am doubting everything I did last year, the raw diet, the Armor supplement, the shen, because now she is sick with Cushings. Did I do this to her? I can't get that out of my mind. There, i finally said it out loud. Did I make my dog sick? She wasn't sick before this. I am now having a major meltdown. I only fed her turkey, i did not rotate protein, the holistic vet said keep her on turkey. i didn't even do it right.

I am so sorry, I can't type any more.
Addy

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NO! YOU did NOT do this to her. Have you tried "probiotics"? Don't get them from Iams - they are crazy expensive, but read Iams ad about them if you can find it. I think it may be a good idea for ALL dogs with tummy problems (and maybe those without). I just gave "Frijole" (Kim) the contact info on how to hopefully get the same less expensive probiotics I have been giving Simon.
My friend, I wonder if I "did this" to Simon sometimes too - was it drinking the pool water? Did I not see it for too long? But then I stop myself. Have you noticed how many purebred dogs are amongst us? In fact, I have yet to see anyone with a "mutt" ... personally, I think it is a genetic predispostion, and from the breeding and breeders I have seen throughout the U.S. - even the ones I thought were HIGHLY ethical, I kind of think this looks like something that may just be a genetic predispostition. I think that we do go through everything for a reason, and that reason will work out to be good if you can hand it over to God. This is all again, just my opinion. I am sorry if I am the one who caused you to start going down the road of self-blame. Trust me, you didn't do it. It just happened, and now you are doing everything in your power to make it better for your baby. So don't freak yourself out (take it from the one who tends to do that dailly.)
I just re-read what you wrote and see I misunderstood. You are wondering if you made your dog sick with the food. I stand corrected, however, the answer is still NO. Even if the food is what made your baby sick, you did NOT "DO IT" to her, the food might have, so now you just get her well, focus on that. Blaming yourself (like all parents do) isn't going to help either one of you. When you feel bad, she worries - so you gotta KNOW you didn't do this. Even if you messed everything up (which I have no idea, not up to date on your thread). What you ARE going to do is make her get better. So hang in there for her, and believe me, if it was the food, you can blame the food company - just don't blame yourself, okay? I would tell you if I thought it was your fault. And I am telling you that it is not. It's just your job to get her better and so focus, listen to Harley's poor Mama, who always says "take a deep breath" - take ten, and then start making plans on how you will get her feeling better. You are her Mom - you can ONLY make her feel better - and if you asked her, that is what she would tell you.
Praying for you both.
Love,
Dena and Simon

Addy, also I know a lot of people are going to not like this one, and I did just catch up on your thread ... but I just read an article recently by a veterinary endocrinologist that says Hills ID is the best choice for dogs with Cushings. I don't have the link, but you can google it. I have to get to work - but wanted to tell you you might want to look into that - it is made for dogs with stomach and digestion problems. Also, I really am a believer in probiotics, as I said in my last post, and most of a dogs immune system is in their gut so I really believe probiotics will help. Food is so hard of a thing to figure out what is right, but if you left it up to your baby, just think of what she would have been eating on her own. You will resolve this. Lastly, are you feeding the flax seed hulls? A little too much of that can give a dog (or a human) the runs, and so be sure your vet has looked up the exact right dose for your baby's weiight, and remember it is once a day - not twice.
Hope I am helpful (if not please just ignore). I am very relieved that you agree about "raw raw" - raw meat is the last thing a Cushing's dog's tummy can tolerate ... but my understanding is that is NOT what you were doing, so I'm wondering if it could have been too much flax., or maybe it is just getting the plastic out of her system. It WILL resolve ... just keep trying to do what is right, that's the best you can do. For me it's really hard with 7 dogs to get Simon not to eat all of their food. And last night Coulter (my Anatolian "JUNKY" shepherd ate a half a bottle of Simon's Sam-E and she's fine. She grabs a bottle of vitamins or any RX she can get her big mouth around any time I leave a door where she can get to it. I think she is trying to kill off the JRTs, but my point is that healthy dogs can get away with a lot more than Cushing's dogs, and that doesn't mean that YOU did anything wrong, okay? I just hope I can help by suggesting stuff that might work. Probiotics, and as much as we all hate Hills, ID is a very good intestinal diet and has recent research to show it is helpful in Cushings. It is not very good looking food, though and I'm not totally convinced - but when I have put dogs with stomach problems on it, it has helped. And so does reglan - were you the one that had that but was afraid? Take one yourself first if you don't believe me - it sounds like your stomach might be upset, it works in thirty minutes and is a total relief - I will tell you a funny story about it later but gotta get to work now. Praying for you and your girl.
Love,
Dena and Simon

ok...here is the link to the thread where we discussed the dosages and SDG I told you about. The discussion starts a page or 2 before this link but the main ideas start here:

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/show...+hulls&page=11

About guilt....obviously no has told you but I am the Queen of Guilt here and have no intention of giving up my crown any time soon! :p I haven't quite figured it out yet, but I am sure I had something to do with the Gulf tragedy! :D So you just put that crap in the trash.

Unless there have been some new studies, no one really knows what causes Cushing's to develop (other than the Iatrogenic form). It can be found in families but not always; there are sometimes commonalities in the history of the pups but not always; some breeds are more prone to the condition but not all of them will succumb. Truthfully, I think Cushing's is much more common that is currently believed but it goes undiagnosed or is mis-diagnosed more times than not. That is one reason what we do here is so very important. By our love, determination and self-education each one of us has taught and is teaching our vets the truth of this condition; it CAN be treated, the pups CAN live a normal, healthy life-span, and there are parents who DO care and will do ANYTHING to help their babies. It may not be in our lifetimes, but the day will come when Cushing's is no longer a feared, mis-understood condition and that will be in large part due to parents like you, sweetie, who are fighting so hard today.

So when that nasty guilt pokes its head up, remind it who is the Queen ;) and that what you and Zoe are facing has an important purpose for all babies.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Dear Andy I will post what I feed Apollo:
A.M-low fat cottage cheese, Greek nonfat yogurt, egg white
, low sodium turkey slice, supplements

NOON- long WHEAT grain rice, cooked chicken, teaspoon canola oil,
Lite salt-potassium chloride
ADDED PURRED,CARROT

AFTER 4P.M-cooked potatoes with skin, chicken
Nutria Deni mini chew or Greene
Halo-Live N Little skin & Coat treat with Salmon
Have alternated with organic baby food-summer veg with pumpkin, turkey with veg, spinach.
Slice apple, sometimes blue berries, honey melon
I have given Apollo -Solid Gold-made in San Diego, Halo, and NUtrilite. You are getting to much overload on information, check with your vet and holistic vet to work together on Zoe's diet. That is what I am doing. Maybe Dena is right about pure breeds, my little guy has a super sensitive stomach. Although he will eat anything he can get his teeth into. Just take it slow. I am here if you need to talk or should I say post. You are on the east coast and I am on the west Coast-Original from Toronto, Ontario , Canada-know more then I want about the cold.

Thanks to all of you for your much needed support. I think I just needed to put Cushings away for a day. I feel much better.

Zoe was on the Hills' Icanned ID for nine months and still had colitis flare ups frequently, I had to supplement it everyday with pumpkin. She chewed her paws terribly and gained alot of weight from the food. Her stool always had mucus in it. I tried Animal Esstenials Enyzmes and probiotics, it was hit or miss, not consistant. Tried Forti Flora too. She has been on Culturelle 1 time per day, half capsule now for almost a year.

Last night I gave Zoe her first 1mg of melatonin. I wanted to start that for a week without the lignans. I always have to do things one new thing at a time. Well, it didn't really knock her out, she was waking me up at the crack of dawn as usual. Tommorow I will try 2 times a day.

It probably was just a fluke and nothing to do with the melatonin, but this morning she had the most perfect beautiful poops I have seen since March. Now, you know I love my dog because I have become an expert poop examiner!!! And yesterday was not even a metronidazole day. I have again cut her back to every other day as she seemed a little sick to her tummy on the every day Metronidazole dose.

At any rate, last night I thought I should look at things differently and maybe because of what I did do last year she does not YET have all the normal symptoms of Cushings except for the coat and skin. Tried to put a positive spin on it :)

Anyway, I will allow Squirt's Mom to remain the "queen of guilt". Thanks for all the kind words, it really helps when I have a melt down.

Addy

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Originally Posted by addy

It probably was just a fluke and nothing to do with the melatonin, but this morning she had the most perfect beautiful poops I have seen since March. Now, you know I love my dog because I have become an expert poop examiner!!!

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I shall say that around here we do get quite excited about perfect poops!!!! :D
Poop patrol rocks! :D:eek::)

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Originally Posted by addy

At any rate, last night I thought I should look at things differently and maybe because of what I did do last year she does not YET have all the normal symptoms of Cushings except for the coat and skin. Tried to put a positive spin on it :)

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Good for you! A positive attitude is essential when dealing with this disease, so if that negative energy comes calling again, well as you say...put it in a drawer and never open it! And you know that you can come here to talk about the fear and anxiety that this disease can create in us.

Love and hugs,
Lori

You go, girl! :D:D:D

Ain't poop patrol fun?!?! A few years ago, a neighbor asked me if I had lost a diamond! :p After a while, they quit asking and just decided this old broad was simply nutso!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls - always

Addy, Just wanted you to know that we know this can be very stressful. Even those of us that have been around this for years need to take a day or a week off. Just went thru it myself. You are doing a great job. Remember to take care of yourself too in all of this. Kim :p;)

Dear Andy,
Hang in there. I noticed Apollo's pop was a little watery today, yesterday he had some good ones. Pretty sad when you get excited over dog pop. Just some humor.

OMG, you won't even believe this. Yesterday, my husband came back from the grocery store and I carefully put all the food away safely. I had 2 bags of hamburger buns that I figured I would stash on top of the refrigerator out of reach, where I usally do, I had not other place to put them, I once tried the oven and we forgot the rolls were in there and turned it on to preheat:eek: Is that called a senior moment?

Now I try to be so careful with Zoe, when the kids come over we nag them to death about don't eat anywhere but seated at the table, don't spill the grapes, becareful of the chocolate and on and on and on. They think I am loony tunes the way I fuss. Well, somehow one of the bags containing EIGHT hamburger buns fell from the refrigerator top. The dogs must have thought it was raining bread! I had already ran out to pick up my elderly mom and of course you know the rest of the story. From the looks of her stomach, guess who ate most of them?

I can't even believe this happened. And she just had perfect poops. Her stomach looks like she is expecting a litter of puppies, she is pooping orange gluey mushy stuff and she can't stop panting and it has been 24 hours. I took her to emergency and told them she was The IMS's patient. Dr. told me to not feed her for the rest of the day except a small amount of food tonite, give her metronidazole tonite and that it should be out of her system in another 24 hours.

I keep hitting myself in the head, but I have stashed rolls on top of the frig for ten years, they never fell down. Why would they fall down now?Koko of course is perfectly fine but Zoe is "sick as a dog!"

I don't believe this. I really don't. I was so upset yesterday I told my husband he can't go grocery shopping anymore, we have to eat out from now on.

OMG!:eek::eek::eek:

Addy

Dear Andy, I have had the same thing happen, in a way you just have to laugh. Apollo in August of last year, I was having a senior moment, left Apollo at home, in the kitchen where there is a doggie door to go outside as usual. Forgot I left a plastic bag full of dog food samples from a fair I had gone to, on the kitchen table. I come home, Apollo is bloated out like a balloon, see what is left of some of the bags of dog food, ate the plastic also. Went to vet tried to give him some laxative and x ray to see what was in his stomach. He was a very happy fat dog. I did not feed him for a day. But didn't know he had cushing so it took forever for his stomach to go down. Not the first time, he got into blue berry scone, once he ate 1 and 1/2 wheat bagels, etc. Be grateful it was only food. The little guys keep us on our toes always.

I know, you almost do have to laugh.

I told my neighbor I was going to be a cat lady in my next life!!!!

Yesterday afternoon I called the ER and they told me to feed her small frequent meals because that was alot of food and I needed to make sure it moved through her system. I think that advice made her sicker. She will not let me pick her up at all this afternoon. Though she sure did not turn down her breakfast portion. I knew I should have not fed her:(

I f I offered her a steak right now, she would eat it;) I still can't believe they ate eight hamburger buns. And you know Zoe had at least five of them if not more. I don't remember my Golden retriever doing this stuff, but she was not part of a tag team :)

Did you post Apollos's picture from the Fourth? How is his bump?

Addy

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Originally Posted by apollo6

Dear Andy,
Hang in there. I noticed Apollo's pop was a little watery today, yesterday he had some good ones. Pretty sad when you get excited over dog pop. Just some humor.

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Well I think it's time for Jenny to once again present or reintroduce her special "Stool Chart" :) When I was first introduced to it, I would refer to the poop type with a number as per the chart. I still always watch my precious pups poops :p

Dear Andy will post picture, not great because pretty overcast. Did one today. Apollo was not interested in possing, but you can see the lump on his tail. Will be going for ACHT STIM test tomorrow and will bring up his tail. Need to further investigate and hopefully remove.

okay, we seem to be almost over the bun incident, tummy is still sore but Zoe did manage to jump on the bed today, could not do it for a few days. IMS said watch her for signs of pancreatitis when I called in to renew her script for metronidazole today.

Hopefully, we can get back to our melatonin and lignans now. I swear, is a higher being trying to keep me from loading with lysodren? It's enough to make a girl wonder:confused:

I am thinking maybe I should do one more acth test or stim test in August. Thoughts anyone? Here are mine:

1- will be off her glandular thyroid meds for 3 months, will be off the Shen calmer for a month and hopefully colitis flare up will be over.

It is not than I don't think she has Cushings but I worry that all that stress and inflamation made her numbers higher than they would have been. I mean it said "SIGNIFICANT"

Also, feeling really bad that Dr. Oliver has answered others but still has not answered me. Should I rewrite the email? Maybe I didn't ask the question correctly.

Input, please:confused:

Thanks,
Addy

Dear Andy,
Like you , I want to believe Apollo doesn't have cushing. When I emailed this is the answer I got back.
If your veterinarian wanted input on what we do at Tennessee, I’d be more than happy to discuss things with him (865-974-5729). Jack
You might ask Dena-Simon's mother, she has dealt with Dr. Oliver.
In my thread, I posted about Apollo's test and the doctor wants to follow up in 4-6weeks for another test and blood panel to see how his organs are. I just hate putting the little guy through all this. When the tech took him in for his test , he let out a shrill cry and looked at me with fear. Ask your Vet want they think, be persistent with them, Zoe is your baby.
Apollo has had episodes of pancreatitis in the past, was usually put on bland diet. His stomach is still gurgling. My vet says improvement can take up to months. I don't blame you about the Lysodren. But a lot on the forum have used it, so I really can not give any input. You have enough going on with Zoe's other issues.
Love Sonja and Apollo

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Originally Posted by addy

okay, we seem to be almost over the bun incident, tummy is still sore but Zoe did manage to jump on the bed today, could not do it for a few days. IMS said watch her for signs of pancreatitis when I called in to renew her script for metronidazole today.

If this were me, instead of watching for signs of pancreatitis I would ask your IMS to test Zoe for pancreatitis, the test is called a spec PL test.

Hopefully, we can get back to our melatonin and lignans now. I swear, is a higher being trying to keep me from loading with lysodren? It's enough to make a girl wonder:confused:

I am thinking maybe I should do one more acth test or stim test in August. Thoughts anyone? Here are mine:

Another acth stim test, IMO, would hinge on the results of the spec PL test. If Zoe's spec PL results are high for pancreatitis then this needs to be addressed first even before the cushings...JMO.

1- will be off her glandular thyroid meds for 3 months, will be off the Shen calmer for a month and hopefully colitis flare up will be over.

It is not than I don't think she has Cushings but I worry that all that stress and inflamation made her numbers higher than they would have been. I mean it said "SIGNIFICANT"

Also, feeling really bad that Dr. Oliver has answered others but still has not answered me. Should I rewrite the email? Maybe I didn't ask the question correctly.

Most definitely email him again. Dr. Oliver always responds back. Something must of happened to your first email...lost in cyber-space, maybe??

Input, please:confused:

Thanks,
Addy

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Hope this helps.

Love and hugs,
Lori

She had the test for pancreatitis at the end of May. Everything was normal, no evidence, she had the tests thru Univ. Texas and her ultrasound. You think I should retest her because of the eating six hamburger buns?

I think she has Cushings but what I question is how high her numbers were and perhaps if she was retested (ACTH) once her colitis is stable for a month (if we can ever get that) and everything else is stable, could it be the numbers would not be so high? Does it matter for loading her? This is what I question, I guess.

Since she ate the buns, she won't jump on the bed. She had jumped on the bed the night of the incident and jumped off, landing hard and turned and looked at her back leg. I can't find any evidence of injury, perhaps she pulled a muscle. If it does not improve we will have to get that checked too. She is not walking funny or favoring the leg, does not yelp if I gently stretch it out. She runs around the house and will jump on the sofa, just not the bed. She was flying on and off the bed with no problem until this happened on Sunday.

I sent by email twice to Dr. Oliver.

Addy

Hi Addy,
Welcome to the Best Cushing Site you will find. I was new in February--been there and done it all!!!:D Worry, Quilt, Watching POOP, and even got excited when the pee was yellow and not clear.

Maddie is finally on her first true maintenance with Lysodren and we do the 30 day test tomorrow. Today on our morning walk she was out front and walked further than she has in months. I think things have finally turned around for her, but I still WORRY!!!:( My husband says no matter how long she has, she has had the best life we could possible give her--freedom and love! Remember the good stuff and just make it as good as we can for the future time we have together.

You are doing all the right stuff for Zoe and like everyone has said take care of yourself because you have to be there for our pups.:):) It is all a journey.

I also want to add: I started feeding raw when this started because I read to take a cushings dog off of grains; we have friends who have horses who have gotten cushings--they have to have a special diet also. I just cut back the raw and started a dry that is also grain free--not sure if this is why she has more energy, but she seems to not feel like she hasn't had enough to eat. I also give milk thistle, l-glutamine, fish oil, vit c, c & c to help her. The raw is Northwest Natures and the new dry is from Nutra--California Naturals, has an Aussie on the front--gee wonder why I bought that--haha!! (Maddie is an Aussie). She has not problems with eating all of this--still has good poop. We all can tell you what works for our dogs and give opinions to help, but in the end it is what works best for you and Zoe!!

Welcome again and keep up the good work!!!:);):D

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Originally Posted by addy

She had the test for pancreatitis at the end of May. Everything was normal, no evidence, she had the tests thru Univ. Texas and her ultrasound. You think I should retest her because of the eating six hamburger buns?

If her tests for pancreatitis came back normal then I would not have her retested because of her eating 6 hamburger buns although bloat would concern me...maybe members with more experience/knowledge with this will share their opinions.


I think she has Cushings but what I question is how high her numbers were and perhaps if she was retested (ACTH) once her colitis is stable for a month (if we can ever get that) and everything else is stable, could it be the numbers would not be so high? Does it matter for loading her? This is what I question, I guess.

IMO it is always good to get a "starting point" when one begins to load their pup on Lysodren, a very recent ACTH stim test, I believe, is important.

Since she ate the buns, she won't jump on the bed. She had jumped on the bed the night of the incident and jumped off, landing hard and turned and looked at her back leg. I can't find any evidence of injury, perhaps she pulled a muscle. If it does not improve we will have to get that checked too. She is not walking funny or favoring the leg, does not yelp if I gently stretch it out. She runs around the house and will jump on the sofa, just not the bed. She was flying on and off the bed with no problem until this happened on Sunday.

I sent by email twice to Dr. Oliver.

Addy

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Keeping you and sweet Zoe in my thoughts and prayers.

Love and hugs,
Lori

Dear Andy,
Slow down, take a deep breath. Maybe it will take a day or so for Zoe to recover from the hamburger buns. It is just bread. Apollo ate the back of my husband's leather dress shoes once, last summer he ate part of a brand new pair of shoes I bought. What I am trying to say Apollo is still here despite the cushing. Apollo sometimes can hardly get up the stairs I have for him on the bed and couch, sometimes he can hardly step over a brick, then all of a sudden he look like his old self. This disease is so nasty. As far as loading, I'd have to go back on your thread to read what is going on.
Some of the medications Zoe is getting may have steroids in them, if so they can cause cushing systems (Apollo was on Prednisone, dexam, rima,(not sure of all the spelling) Secondly before you jump at anything , check with your vet, about all the other issues Zoe has.
These are the tests I had for Apollo;
Sept 16, 2009-blood panel
January 2010-ultrasound-adominal (disc)
May 25, 2010-blood panel
May 28, 2010- ACTH Stim Test
Blood pressure
Urinalysis-Antech
Urine Culture MIC
Ultra sound, Focal Abdomen (only gall balder- sludge )
Was an ultrasound done? It can show if both adrenal glands are swollen or if one is larger then the other. I was lucky, Apollo's urine was normal, but cushing pups can have urinary infections. Have you distinguished as to what kind Zoe has? Atypical, Phd, or Adrendal ? What I am saying in Sept of last year is when things started not looking right, the hair loss on the tail was over 1-2 years. It wasn't until July of this year that I started treatment.

just heard back from Dr. Oliver. he says lysodren even with Zoe's chronic diahrrea.

stool is normal today, even alittle constipated. No metronidazole today, I will cut back to every other day again. Seems like she is burping alot and tummy rumbles. i have not been giving her full rations yet. Her tummy does that when she does not get full rations of her raw food. Wonder if I should try Pepcid? If I over ate the human equivilant of what she ate for her tummy size, my tummy would not feel too good for a week or two!

I worried about bloat but I don't think that is it. She has not vomited and wants to eat and drink. OMG, I have always said if my Zoe stops eating, I have to be seriously worried.:( she seldom throws up and always wants to eat. Must be the Cushings though I did read Lhasa's are Hoovers.

I am going to do a consultation with IMS and go over options. I think I want to do one more ACTH test before loading starts next month.

I think I have had too much time to think so then I start doubting things. It has all taken too long. Maybe it is a blessing in disguise.

Thanks for input all:D

Addy

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I also want to add: I started feeding raw when this started because I read to take a cushings dog off of grains; we have friends who have horses who have gotten cushings--they have to have a special diet also. I just cut back the raw and started a dry that is also grain free--not sure if this is why she has more energy, but she seems to not feel like she hasn't had enough to eat. I also give milk thistle, l-glutamine, fish oil, vit c, c & c to help her. The raw is Northwest Natures and the new dry is from Nutra--California Naturals, has an Aussie on the front--gee wonder why I bought that--haha!! (Maddie is an Aussie). She has not problems with eating all of this--still has good poop. We all can tell you what works for our dogs and give opinions to help, but in the end it is what works best for you and Zoe!!

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Maddie's Mom- thanks for the welcome! I find this info interesting because Zoe seemd hungrier on the raw from the very first day but she can't eat kibble, or at least she couldn't last year. I tried to switch her to California natural lamb and rice could only get to 1/4 cup. Did you switch foods after she had been on lysodren for awhile? I worried about the raw becasue of what it said on her food package and because others told me they took there Cush pups off raw once diagnosed. I read also try to stay away from grain but there is so much food info out there ! Hard to tell what will work or not so I know what you mean.

I will read Maddie's thread. Thanks again.

Addy

Dear Andy,
I give pepcid when Apollo has an upset tummy, I use less then a quarter of a tablet, thrown in with his food. He has always had a big appetite. Again check with your vet first.

Really?

what is pedica and where do I buy it? How do I know how much to give?

The only test Zoe did not have is LDDS and that was because I can't leave her that long at the vets, too much stress. All tests point to Cushings, IMS said no tumor so not adrenal.

I know Sonja, I am going too fast again. My mind is racing. I need to slow down and give Zoe some time and me some time. Just felt a little pressure yesterday when I called in for her meds refill. Thanks for giving me your time line, that little bit of info just helped me so very much! See, I need to know tidbits like that;) I'm serious, I really do. It helps put things in perspective.

She can't jump on the bed so I start to freak that the hamburger buns made her Cushings worse:eek:

Addy

Addy - in Apolla/Sonja's thread, you asked about the 'unexpected' side effects that my Zoe got from the tylan. I don't know if any of these would be relevant to your Zoe, but this is what happened.

I started Zoe on tylan for SIBO on a Friday (in summer 2008). On Saturday, her drinking dropped by half or more. She'd had polydipsia (and polyuria) her whole life and even after going on trilostane - at age 9 - those things did not totally resolve. One good formula for figuring normal water consumption is 1 c. of water per each 10 lbs of body wt. Zoe (who usually weighed around 80 lbs) drank upwards of 15 c. of water/day - pre-cush diagnosis. Even after starting on trilo, she still drank 12 or more cups of water/day. And those amounts would always go up when she'd get a urinary infection. So virtually overnight, her drinking/peeing dropped to a normal range and stayed down. Her average after that was 4 - 8 c./day. That was great, to my mind......but then over the coming weeks and months, I began to notice other positives as well.

First off, her lifelong battle with uti's came to a screeching halt. I think she only had two more after that and one was very minor (bacteria count not all that high). This was a dog who sometimes got uti's every 6 - 8 weeks. Not a year went by that she didn't have several bouts.

Zoe went to the bridge this last March. But in her last year and a half (on the tylan), her thyroid levels and her cortisol levels finally stabilized. She'd previously taken thyroxine in doses ranging from .2 to .8 mg. She'd also taken ever-increasing doses of trilo, and yet sometimes her cortisol would rise to around 9 or 10 - once to 13+. I don't think we ever got an ACTH reading below 5, except once (much to my and our vet's amazement, she dropped to a pre of .7 pre and a post of 1-something. Don't remember when that happened but I think it was during the same summer we put her on tylan.) Would have to look.

So those were the 'unexpected' benefits that I saw. I think it probably had to do with how well she was absorbing her medicines - before and after the tylan. The reason we tested for SIBO was house-clearing gas (she also had the intestinal rumblings called borygmus-sp.??) and more often than not had soft, mushy poop - :eek: not quite diarrhea but she had bouts of that more than I care to recall, too.:rolleyes: So as hoped, with the tylan, her poop firmed up and the bad gas improved. As far as her appetite, she was always the opposite of the typical cush pup. Pre-diagnosis and when her cortisol #'s would creep up, she wasn't much of an eater. The lower her cortisol, the better her appetite. She was definitely not a dog who'd 'read the book!' Sue

zoe's mom

Thank you for sharing Zoe's story and I hope it was not too painful for you. Tylan has antiinflamatory properties as does metronidazole. I wonder if once we get all that inflammation down, some cortisol drops, meds get absorbed better, etc. their bodies just respond better when they don't have to cope with their insides inflamed as well as gettting rid of that bacteria they harbor.

Do you know of any literature about inflammation and cortisol?

I just can't shake the thought that my zoe's inflamation when we did her Cushings tests contributed to her "significant numbers" and that if I retested her after a period of "non inflamation" if I could achieve it, it would possibly bring down those numbers to moderate.

I am not saying it would get rid of the Cushings diagnosis, as I believe it is real, maybe just her numbers would not be significant but maybe moderate. Not sure how that would affect loading her, if it changes the doseage or the post load ACTH comparison.

Does it seem odd that a dog with "significant" Cushings, does not have the frequent infections, blood work is not anything like alot of the other dogs, symptoms are not as strong as other dogs., etc.

I am a practical person and something does not add up for me.
Maybe I am too hung up on Dr.Oliver's wording of signifcant :)

Thank you again so very much for sharing with me.
Addy

Go with your gut feeling. The pepcid(not sure of spelling), I use Bismuth, is just over the counter medication for upset stomach, I sometimes try to get the children's , another one is Pepsto for children( in pink bottle I think) any regular drug store would have - like CVS, walmart, etc. I use less then a quarter of a tablet in Apollo's food occasionally. See what other members do. I keep hoping I'll wake up and the cushing will go away.
I do see the effects of the skin lesions, and I feel the lump on Apollo's tail is from ingrown hairs, that are inflamed. I just want to cut that awful thing out.

Hi All,


It has been a week since the "bun" incident and finally yesterday, Zoe was able to again jump on the bed and this morning, bless her heart, she jumped up on the bed and woke us up with her normal antics.

I was about to order pet stairs for her and schedule appointment with vet for next week, worrying how was I going to take off work for that, I am down to being a one girl office for a month! Big sigh of relief.

That Cushing's panic is hard to overcome, I thought we had a new symptom. I see Cushings everywhere sometimes.

So back to the melatonin and lignans!!!:D

My current problems seem so small compared to what others here are going through lately.

You all are in my thoughts and prayers and I hope things get better!

Addy

P.S. link for paper on Trilostane- Zurich Conference 2010. Thanks Harly's Mom!!!


http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proce...6127&O=Generic

Dear Andy,
Hope you are doing fine, I am so obsessed with Cushing, that my vet ordered me to take a brake from it. My family says I am looking for something on Apollo everyday, for another sign. Well I go in about 3 weeks for Apollo's check up, new blood panel, and new ACHT STIM
TEST. Like so many I am overwhelmed with a lot on top of this.
My husband and I are ready to close our store and sell our building. We are no spring chickens. Been in business 36 years. Problem is it is in Reno, Nev and the economy is real bad there. We are struggling week to week in our flooring business. My mother is 78 and I am doing more and more. It just never seems to end.
Thank you for the link.

Oh Sonja,

I am so sorry to hear about your business. That is so very hard. We had to close a family business a few years ago, it really is heartbreaking to go through.

this weekend we were trying to trim branches on a tall evergreen and my husbanf got stung by hornets. His arm swelled up so badly, his doctor put him on prednisone for five days.

It is always something. My daughter thinks we are jinxed lately!!!! Oh, I was just glad I did not get stung because I had a swarm of them flying around my head. I was swatting at them. I thought they were flies because they were black and buzzing

I think we need a condo but you can't sell a house in Milwaukee right now:(

Hope Apollo is doing well and his next batch of tests are good. I need to figure out the lignans for Zoe and I don't think well with that side of my brain.

Addy

I know what you mean. My husband and I feel the same way sometimes, like there is a dark cloud over us. I tried to blow it away over the weekend. We are in the same place, would like to sell our house and building in Reno, NV. But the economy is so bad and every month the values go down. It has just got to get better for all of us.
I pray every night for the the members and their cushing babies. On the brighter side, my brother, the professor, just had his third daughter , July 3rd in Columbus, Ohio. He said he plans on going for long bicycle rides when all the women are all on their period. He doesn't want to try for a boy, but you never know.

Dear Andy,
So wrapped up in myself, forgot to ask how your husband is doing. Hope he is doing well. How are you and Zoe doing.

Addy, on the general labs that were done on 6/18, Zoe has the typical elevations in cholesterol & alk phos that all of our pups seem to have. The one good thing is neither of the 3 liver specific enzymes, ALT, AST, or GGT were elevated which should mean that her liver is still in pretty good shape, & probably has not suffered a whole lot of damage from trying to process the excess adrenal steroids. I would double check with your vet about this. The one thing that I didn't see posted was the urine specific gravity on the UA results. Cushpups can't concentrate their urine so that result should be low. Since you told me in the PM that these labs were done in the middle of a colitis flare, that would probably explain the elevated platelet count. I think the general labwork is just another confirmation of the results from the UTK panel. I'm not sure exactly what you're looking for, but I hope my explanation helps.

I don't remember what treatment plan you & your vet have discussed, but from all of Zoe's results including the abdominal ultrasound, IMO, she needs to be treated.

Debbie

Thanks Deb for checking the labs. I was just confused because I thought a dog with "Significant" hormone levels would have more things wrong on the other labs so I was worried that her flare up and stress maybe bumped her adrenal numbers from maybe moderate to significant which would perhaps change the treatment recomendation. She doe not have panting, frequent thirst, potty accidents, frequent infections, etc. We just have the thin skin and hair thinning, rat's tail and licking everything.

IMS wants to load with lysodren and I wanted to wait until I could be home for a week and not have to worry if I have to take off work, which means mid August.

Until then I wanted to try melatonin and lignans for her estorel (not sure I spelled that right) and try to get the flare up under control.

I was hoping the melatonin would help her anxiety as I took her off her Shen Calmer. We are starting with 1 mg and I have not yet figued out the lignan dose.

Everyone wanted me to check with Dr. Oliver about loading with lysodren and her chronic diahrrea. He was away and I finally heard back and he said lysodren and that he was not aware of it causing diahrrea so should not be a problem. Another vet said no problem administering metronidazole with lysodren. She also said no problem with loading.

So, just wanted to cover my bases before next month.

Thanks again,
Addy

Dear Andy,
Just do what you think is right . How are you and Zoe doing, how is your husband recovering from the bee strings. Saw a wasp in our patio today, took Apollo, inside right away.

Hi Sonja,

My husband's arm is so much better, thank you for asking. The prednisone kicked in the second day.He is almost good as new :)

I am trying to figure out these lignans for Zoe. If I undestand it (and I probably don't) if the flax is a 40 mg capsule with 20% lignans and Zoe needs 1 mg per pound that would be 18 mg's of lignans so I would need 2 capsules I guess which is 16 not 18 but I hope that is close enough.

Do I have it right? Yikes, I can't think with that side of my brain.:confused:

How is Apollo today and how are you? I hope you both had a good day. We all need them, don't we? I will go on your thread. We had horrible storms last night and our power was out at work so when it finally came on at noon I did not have much time to get my Cushing's forum fix :) I missed you all today.

Love you,
Addy