Buddy, The Mighty Lizard Hunter - Suspected Pituitary Macro Tumor

Hi Kathy,
I am so happy that you are already seeing an improvement with the prednisone, I hope things continue to improve!! :) When Jasper was on higher doses of prednisone, his drinking and peeing increased quite a bit as those are side effects. I know you are watching for those things, and while not ideal, they are manageable symptoms. Jasper's water intake has never really normalized, but I have adjusted. You are doing a wonderful job with Buddy. I have not been able to post much lately but read daily, and you and Buddy are always in my thoughts and prayers.

Hugs from me and Jasper

Kathy:
Tipper and I are over the moon about the improvement in Buddy with just one dose. We are hoping he can stay at an even keel now and not have any further issues. God Bless you, you are doing great with Buddy. He must be thrilled that some of those nasty symptoms went away too! Blessings
Patti

Kathy:
I forgot to tell you Tipper said the reason there are no lizards is they heard Buddy was getting better and they high tailed it out of there!!

Thanks for your well wishes wishes and support. :) Buddy is up and running around all over the place this morning. :) He is running straight and not wobbly like he normally does and is yapping at me for breakfast. :pHis neural symptoms have vastly improved. The prednisone does seem to be helping with his mobility. I think it is making him itchy because his paws were damp this morning. He licks at them when he feels itchy. I'm going to continue to give him Benadryl for his allergies. I am hoping that will help with the itchiness. I don't want to have to stop the prednisone so soon, particularly when it does seem to be helping. I have noticed that he is drinking more water. Any thoughts, pass them along. I will keep you posted. Thanks Angels;)

Hugs,
Kathy

Hi Kathy,

That is so great that the neurological symptoms have improved after just a dose and continue to do well. I'd think that is a good start to the trial. I don't know if that means that there was only slight pressure "inflammation" around the tumor or what. That would be interesting to see what the specialist/vet thinks about that. Since I'm on the optimistic bandwagon though, I'm going to just take it as a good sign over all. :)
I was just reading this morning that diluted pure apple cider vinegar, diluted in water, to soak their paws in, is something that can be used for itchy, allergic symptoms with dogs.
Another thing I came across and I don't know why I hadn't seen it before, is that cortisol affects the insulin levels, absorption, etc and that one of the signs mentioned with cushings is the possibility of fasting hyperglycemia. So by feeding Buddy the smaller meals, more times a day, you could be really getting a hand on controlling that, which would make the tremors probably related to the hyperglycemia and hence, less of them as that is now controlled.
Who knew! You learn something every day it seems on the forum.
Just stuff I came across, that you probably already know, but if not, thought would be worth sharing with you.
I was actually looking for calcium deposit information at the time, but you never know where you'll end up finding information at when searching about and reading these things.
I hope you have a lovely Sunday. Sounds like Buddy is going to be keeping you on your toes today, full of energy the little mighty lizard hunter!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Sharlene, thanks for the information. :);) I have been doing a lot of research too. There is so much to learn. Please feel free to pass on any and all information you have. As with regard to soaking the paws in cider vinegar, do you rinse them off afterward? Does the soaking stop the itching, or just make their paws tastes bad so they don't want to lick them? I've seen what buddy licks, cider vinegar is not going to stop him!!!:eek: Concerning the head tremors, none for 15 days now. The longest he has gone between tremors is 10 days. It looks like they are related to his reactive hypoglycemia. He hasn't had any head tremors since before his bout of hypoglycemia. Smaller meals more often, does seem to be doing the trick. There certainly appears to be a tumor, because the improvement in Buddy's neural symptoms is phenomenal! There was obviously enough swelling to interfere with his ability to stand, walk, and move. No face plants since he started on Prednisone yesterday. He is happy and all over the place! The mighty lizard Hunter on steroids, those lizards better watch out!;):D

Hugs,
Kathy

I think that is awesome about the neurological symptoms. Just fabulous. Just that it corrected so quickly, it seems that it must have not been so much inflammation or it would have taken more days to go down. I hoping that it "might" mean that it isn't as big as originally thought and it could just be that the placement of it is very inconvenient for the nerves that any inflammation would press on. Like I said, I'm on a major optimistic role today. LOL

No you don't rinse. You use a diluted amount in water, and the properties of apple cider vinegar seems to be that it immediately reduces itching. You can also use it after a shampoo, also diluted and never full strength and rub into skin, massage in I'd guess or use with a spray bottle (don't get in eyes) and same thing, it reduces itching almost instantly upon contact from what I have read.
Look up apple cider vinegar dogs. I found a couple different pages.

Hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Thanks Sharlene, I'll try it. With regards to cortisol levels and insulin, I think it would be a good idea to feed all our Cush pups smaller amounts more often, if possible. That could help protect them from getting hypoglycemia in the first place. What do you think!! I hope you Sunday is truly blissful!

Happy dog, happy Sunday, eight work days to Summer break! Life is good!:D:D

Hugs,
Kathy

Hi Kathy,
Since it is a risk, yea, I'd think smaller meals more often could be a good idea.

I agree, blissful Sunday :)
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Those lizards must have wised up. Maybe they clocked the one joining the graveyard last week :eek:

I am so pleased that things seem to be progressing in the right direction, no tremors and better walking. That is great news

Big hug to you and kisses to Buddy

Mel
Xxxxx

I need to stop reading about brain and macro rumors. That is really grim stuff!:(. It puts me in the wrong frame of mind. Buddy's mobility has greatly improved since starting the prednisone. He's been licking at his feet when he rests or sleeps, I am hoping the prednisone isn't causing the itching. He is allergic to a lot of things. The licking only started after I started giving him the prednisone. That concerns me.:confused: He has been drinking and peeing much more often and in larger amounts. He is also more hungry now. Those Cushing's symptoms have returned. The peeing is a problem for Buddy. He will not have an accident in the house and doesn't have a clue as to what to do with pee pads. He is likely to injure himself trying to hold it until he's let out. He has a doggie door that he can no longer use because of his mobility issues. That is really hard when no one is home to be able to leave the door open for him. Thankfully, it is almost my summer break so that won't be a problem then. I am staying home tomorrow because I'm not feeling well. That's at least one day I won't have to worry about.;)

Hugs,
Kathy

Kathy, Jasper was exactly the same way about not having an accident in the house. He would hold it indefinitely, and I worried about that so much. His drinking and peeing decreased a lot when he was on the Lysodren, but that was just for a short time. After he went through the Addisonian crisis and was hospitalized, we have never been able to get the drinking and peeing back within normal limits. He apparenly has some kidney damage from the Cushings, which my vet believes is the reason his drinking and peeing have not decreased to be more normal.

I had to start barricading him in the kitchen with pee pads when I go to work. I was sure he would not be able to figure out how to use the pads either, and was just praying that he would pee and not try to hold it all day.

I learned about pooch pads from this forum, you can google them for more information. They are washable and hold a lot more liquid than the disposable pee pads. I bought some, and it took him about a week to figure out what he was supposed to do. ;) I was so pleasantly surprised! They have been absolute lifesavers, I don't know what I would do without them. Jasper drinks so much during the day when I am gone, and he goes on the pads. I mop the floor real quick every day after work in case his aim isn't so good. :rolleyes: :D

You are very lucky that you will soon be on your summer break. I work year round so did not have any other option for Jasper. Like I said, the pooch pad have been lifesavers. He has figured out that he can go on them so doesn't worry about it or try to hold his pee, which I was very concerned about since he already has some kidney issues that he is being treated for.

I would highly recommend that you try this for Buddy so that will be more comfortable when you are gone. :)

Hugs,
Tina and Jasper

Kathy:
I feed Tipper 4 small meals a day. I have done that for about 10 years now as it has always help keep her weight down. The only draw back is she times it to the minute and bugs the heck out of me 4 times a day instead of one. That's ok though as it has helped her, so I am sure it is good for the Cushings too. They seem not to get as hungry throughout the day if you do the smaller meals more often. Well the honeymoon is over, Tipper started back with the breathing struggles last night. I am hoping since the Dr. said she would contact me early this week that she meant Monday. I am carrying the phone around with me until she calls, as I do not want to miss this. I have some notes of questions for her also. This waiting is killing me. Hope everyone had a good weekend. We had a small shower here this morning, and just got Tipper's walk done. God Bless
Patti

Sometimes it's hard not to look at there is a wealth of information at your fingertips. Knowing when to stop is hard, I think you have to remind yourself that what you read doesn't mean that will happen in buddy's case. Each pup is different

So I am nipping in to send you a tight hug and let you know i am thinking of you and the little guy.

Love
Mel
Xxxxx

So the news sounds mostly positive about the neuro symptoms and overall reaction to the Prednisone. Funny that Trixie has been doing a little habitual paw licking recently, something she rarely did. Maybe the high cortisol in her symptom kept her from being very itchy?
No tremors for all these days is probably proof of the hyperglycemic episode then?
Sounds like it's going pretty well..a few Cushing's symptoms peeking out but all in all not seeing Buddy struggle with mobility is great!
We do many small meals all day too...seems to work best for Trixie that way. She actually comes to "tell" me when she's ready for a snack. These dogs have great body clocks!
I hope Buddy continues do show good results from the new combo treatment. :)
Barbara

Hi Barbara,
I am home with Buddy today. He's been sleeping most of the morning. His AM trilostane dose seems to be keeping his drinking and peeing under control in the morning. That is actually good because he can't always get out. He hasn't been out to pee since 7:00 this morning. That does make sense since he only takes trilostane in the morning once per day. As it starts to wear off later in the afternoon, his cortisol rises and the symptoms appear. That is fine because someone is around to leave the door open then. It is better that his cortisol rises in the afternoon and evening anyway. That might actually help slow the growth of the tumor a bit. He's getting a little benefit from the cortisol rising and still has the prednisone for his mobility and neurological symptoms. No head tremors for 16 days now. It sure looks like that they are related to the hypoglycemia. So far, so good!

Yay 16 days!!! Go Buddy!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Wow!16 days-that's awesome Kathy!I haven't responded in awhile but have been following your thread as well as the others.Sounds like the prednisone/tril combo is doing a good job-must be a huge relief for you both not to have the head tremors.The small frequent meals are a great idea and probably very helpful.We actually should all eat small freq meals as it it helps regulate our blood sugars and keeps our metabolism going.Hope Buddy continues to do well and glad you'll be home with him soon.
Patty

My vet just called for a report from me, so he could relay that information to the neurosurgeon who is supervising the trial. He then called me back with her findings. Per doctor....Since Buddy' s neurological symptoms have improved so greatly, and so quickly, that would indicate a problem in the central nervous system. Specifically, the presence of a brain or Pituitary macro tumor. Since Cushing's is a factor, a macro tumor seems much more likely. If there had been no changes in his neurological symptoms, then it would've been unlikely that a tumor was interfering with his mobility. This is the most accurate verification we're going to get without image testing. We are continuing with the drug trial now as is if he does have a tumor. The goal is to lower the prednisone to the smallest possible dose that still takes care of the symptoms once the trial is complete. Lowering the dosage lessons the chance of serious side effects, especially when it's a long-term use of prednisone.

Hi Kathy
Well it does make sense and I'm glad there is a plan to get to the lowest possible dosage. It's a good goal to have for best mobility and quality of life. So proud of you Kathy. You're an awesome mum for the might lizard hunter.

Hugs
Sharlene and Molly muffin

Buddy no longer has a suspected macro tumor. It is pretty much a certainty now. The Trilostane/Prednisone combination will keep him mobile and comfortable longer. It will not stop the tumor's progression. The prednisone is helping him to walk, run and balance, at least for now. It is all unfolding exactly the way I thought it would. I already knew and made my choice as to course of treatment. Then why is it so devastating? I thought I had cried myself out and was moving forward, but there are still plenty of tears left.

What the head knows, logic, how things will progress, has done the research, is nothing compared to what the heart knows... love.

hugs,
Sharlene

I copied this quote off of another thread. It was written today.

"Most important a vet wouldn't put a dog with cushing's on prednisone because that would make it worse! Seriously - prednisone is = to cortisol which is what causes cortisol. It is 100% equivalent to giving a diabetic dog a box of sugar to eat. Makes no sense whatsoever."

Is this what all of you are thinking about Buddy's drug trial? It is being monitored closely by a neuro-surgeon, my regular vet and me. It is being implemented on Dr. B's recommendation. Be honest. How many of you think it makes no sense?

Kathy

Hi Kathy,
If you were to ask me that a few years ago, maybe even last year, I would have been doubtful. After reading some, and understanding what you and the Budster were going through. I am behind you 100%.

I do think it takes a caring vet, and owner to get it right. You have both:) Knowing what Buddy has been through and seeing your reports on Buddy puts a big smile on my face and a heart full of happiness. :D

I wanted to add that this is not the norm but seeing the troubles some of our cush pups have, it may become the norm. We learn as we go.

Kathy,
there is no such thing as a one size fits all treatment plan. That's what makes Cushings so difficult to treat. Daisy and I are STILL trying to find the correct dosage of Trilo that works for her without making her "butt explode".

Also, you love Buddy and he loves you. No amount of research or advanced planning is going to make it easier. They are our family and the thought of losing them is devastating enough, let alone knowing that it is a certainty because of the tumor.

Please know that you are doing what is best for him, and the research will help you and the vet to work as a team in Buddy's best interest and that is what it is all about for every one of us here on this forum.

We do our best, find the best to help us, and love our furlets while they are here with us. Since there is no cure for this disease, the fact that we have learned so much is something to take pride in and to always remember that no matter what happens, we did our absolute best.

(Wow, now the tears are flowing.....)

HUGS!!!!!

Kathy,
I wish I had the right words. You have been doing great and this is just all so difficult. To get more definitive word from the doctor today just opens the wound once again. The combo meds are helping Buddy with his neuro symptoms and that's so good. You have been doing a great job getting this treatment all worked out and thankfully you have your vet back. One day at a time...
We're all here for you!
Barbara

So true one day at a time, thats all we can do for our pups...and seeing that Buddy's running around well now is good news, no matter what he has to take....its whatever works for him, you a great Momma!!!

Hi Kathy

I doubt anyone questions what you are doing for Buddy, different drugs are used for different reasons in different situations. Our doggies need individualised plans for treatment, so don't be worrying about any of that sort of stuff or worrying what people think. If they think that all that is needed is a little education that is all.

You have professionals helping you along this path who have the best interests of the Budster at heart, plus you have YOU, the single best advocate for our lizard hunter! Plus you have us, cheering you along every step of the way!

I am so pleased to hear his neuro symptoms are improving on the Prednisone, that was the aim of this treatment and it is working by the sound of it. Even though with that comes the realisation that you are most likely dealing with a macro which I think is what is tearing at your heart, but with this medication we are going to keep that sucker at bay as long as possible! Hope your feeling better and can get through your last few days at work then phew summer holidays and lots of time with your boy!

Lots of hugs for you today Kathy :) xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Oh my gosh Kathy! No!

On that same thread, I had made a statement that said, there are only certain instances where you would use prednisone with a cushings dog. Your case would be one of them. Prednisone does act like cortisol, it also acts to reduce swelling and that is why you are on a very small amount, and working towards that very fine balance to get it right of what will control the tumor and not cause the cushings symptoms to get out of control either.

This isn't new here on the forum. We've had macro tumors before where prednisone was used. Saying that, with no neurological symptoms, and no macro suspected, then prednisone is not a good idea, especially when cushings hasn't been diagnosed and the vet is giving prednisone and then testing for cortisol levels. That just won't work.

You want to know what you have going on before you start giving drugs. So far on that thread, we have no diagnosis and no clarity for why the various drugs were given. None of that is the same situation as yours, or any of the others who have used prednisone to get some control of macro tumor symptoms.

I hope that helps to clarify things.

You know that if any of us thought it wasn't a good idea that we would mention it right? :) No shrinking violets here. LOL

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Kathy:
I am glad Buddy's mobility issues are lessening. I am so sorry the Dr. confirmed a macro, nobody ever wants to hear that. I know you still have tears left, and believe me when I read that about your dear Buddy I shed a few. You are doing a wonderful job, and will be out of school soon. You can spend all your time with you dear Buddy then. After all the mighty lizard hunter has to get up to speed here or the lizard population will be on the rise. The lizards are probably wondering when Buddy will be on the prowl. I know it is hard to go thru the day knowing this because as I told you before if it were Tipper I would just melt into a puddle. God Bless you and Buddy we are praying for a miracle for him.
Patti

Kathy, you already know I don't think you're crazy, because I'm the one who suggested the trilo/pred combo in the first place! ;) :)

Just as the others have said, every dog's situation is unique. Prednisone can be both a miracle drug and also a problematic drug, depending on why and for how long it is being used. But there is a specific rationale for Buddy's treatment regimen, and I am delighted that it seems to be helping with the neuro issues.

(Having said that, I do understand why the improvement is bittersweet since it seems to be confirming the macro diagnosis. :o)

So if you are crazy, make room on the loony-bus, because I'm sittin' right beside you...! :rolleyes: :D

Me too, I boarded about 4 stops back

We would have considered it if our circumstances had been different.

Hope you both are having a good day today.

Mel
Xx

It is bittersweet.. :( But, I am glad Buddy is doing better. I hope you can block all the fears & horrible ugly things from you mind & enjoy your days together. I know that is easier said than done. I would be throwing up & crying everyday. I just want you two to have many many many good happy fun days together.
I don't think what you are doing is crazy at all. I know others on the board used preds with their babies & macro tumors. What ever makes Buddy happy & feeling good is def the way to go. hugs..

Oh, Kathy,

No one thinks that at all. The biggest problem with Cushings is there is no one size fits all for treatment. Heck, Dr. Peterson told me 3 years ago I could try loading Zoe with Lysodren and give her prednisone for her IBD at the same time. ;);)

And they are still talking about basically that for Zoe if we need it as an option only swapping out the pred for Budesonide.

We are not here to judge anyone and we all are rooting for the mighty lizard hunter and his wonderful mom.:):):)

BIG HUGS

Kathy:
We are hoping the mighty lizard hunter is still doing well, and that his mom will have the strength needed to guide her thru all of this. You are AWESOME Kathy, and Buddy knows it.
Blessings
Patti

Hi Kathy

Just wondering how you and the little man are?

Hope you are both having a good day

Big hug, kisses to Buddy

Mel
Xxxxxx

The good news is........Buddy is doing well today with excellent mobility. He has been running and walking normally with no face plants. Right now he is chasing and yapping at the birds who have the nerve to fly over his air space!:D No head tremors or reactive hypoglycemic attacks in the last 2 1/2 weeks. :)

Now for the bad news......My car went out on me after work and had to be towed in. It looks like the transmission is shot:( I've already spent all of my summer money on vet bills and then some. Summer was going to be lean as it is. They are still assessing the damage, but I don't have the money to fix it anyway.:( Really, did my car have to die with only 5 work days left til summer break?:( I guess I wasn't stressed enough!!:o

Hugs,
Kathy

Oh dear...that just stinks about your car!! :mad: When it rains it pours, right!!? I am certain you didn't deserve car trouble...sorry!! I hope it ends up being a simple and cheap fix!!
On to the good news about Buddy's excellent day! :D So, so happy to hear the little guy is out playing and that his mobility is so good. Sounds like he is having fun and able to be a happy, active pup! Guess that prednisone is doing what it's supposed to do. :)
I have to say that my mother has had a great reaction to prednisone too! She needed it for a terrible rash of unknown origin but with her Parkinson's and her general mental demeanor we were so afraid that she would have agitation, sleeplessness and other bad side effects. Meanwhile it was just the opposite! The prednisone seemed to actually make everything better while also eliminating the rash. She is still being weaned off of it but it really has helped her.
Sorry to go off on that tangent, but I'm happy this drug has had such good effects on Buddy like it did for my mother!
I know how upsetting it was to watch those neuro symptoms and here he is running around and after those lizards and birds!! YAY! :D
Buddy-the mighty lizard hunter and bird alert expert!! heehee :D
I'll keep my fingers crossed for good news about your car!:rolleyes:
Barbara

Oh no Kathy! What is with these dang cars lately. :( Do you have good public transportation in your area?
I like your good news though. Way to go Buddy. You are doing so excellent with him. wooot wooot!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Hi Kathy,
I've read most of your thread (sorry not all due to size) but I am so sorry to hear about the tumor. Doc had a macro adenoma (pituitary tumor verified by MRI). We chose to do the stereotactic radiation (we did 5 times) and we have had tremendous success in shrinking the tumor. After the radiation they put him on prednisone to reduce swelling that the radiation would cause. It worked extremely well for Doc and really it did not make the cushings symptoms any worse in the long run, but he seemed to improve right away. (He had increased peeing and drinking the first few days, but that subsided as his system got used to the pred). However, when we were talking about all of our options, we talked about what we would do if we did not pursue radiation treatment. They (UF) recommended the prednisone, but also Chinese herbs for cancer (contains mushrooms, milk thistle, etc.) along with Stasis Mansion of the Mind. I know that it is considered "alternative" but the neurologist at UF told me that is what he would do for his dog if radiation was not an option. I can't tell they work for sure, but they seemed to help immediately (in the interim time between diagnosis and radiation treatment). I still have him on them.

Basically, I just want you to know that I'm so sorry you are going through this! I also wanted to answer your question about prednisone. It was a miracle drug for Doc so I think you are doing the right thing. As for the Chinese herbs, I just wanted you to be aware of them. You and Buddy are in my prayers.
Jessica and Doc