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Tina, I'm sorry. I know getting up that much during the night has to just wear you out. I know we've had this discussion before but I do not understand the urination issues. I recall having this conversation earlier and you/the vet believed it was related to the prednisone but at that time the dosage wasn't that great. Did you ever rule out diabetes insipidus? (this is not the same as diabetes mellitus). I know you ruled out thyroid issues. Sending love, Kim
Mornin' Tina,
No, this is not the end of the world and NO you did not poison Jasper, honey. Some pups are just super sensitive to these meds and we have no way of knowing that going in...you did exactly as you were supposed to.
In parts of Europe, they treat Cushing's by intentionally inducing Addison's by destroying the adrenal glands because they feel Addison's is easier and less expensive to treat, and not as hard on the pup to live with. Jasper has simply gone from one end of the spectrum to the other and you can both live with this. :)
Here are some links about Addison's for you to check out and I am sure there are others out there as well that may be helpful. The next to last link is a Yahoo forum for discussion and the last one offers some other support venues.
Addison’s*
http://canineaddisonsinfo.com/
http://k9addisons.com/faqs/
http://pet-diseases.suite101.com/art...disease_in_dog
http://www.inmetrodetroit.com/pets/d...k/addisons.htm
http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/deaddisons.html
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/AddisonDogs_/
http://canineaddisonsinfo.com/Support.html
Oddly enough, Addison's and Cushing's share some of the same signs - excess thirst and urination among them so the Addison's may be why Jasper is having to pee so much. But I would look into the Diabetes Insipidus just in case. It is a rare form of diabetes but we have seen several cases of it here. DI is not caused by sugar imbalance but rather with how water is processed in the body.
Links to DI info -
• Polyuria, Polydipsia and Diabetes Insipidus
http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proce...A2002&PID=2556
• Diabetes Insipidus
http://www.petplace.com/article-prin...y.aspx?id=3258
• Diabetes insipidus
http://www.provet.co.uk/health/disea...sinsipidus.htm
• Diabetes Insipidus
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/in...m/bc/40507.htm
Now that you have your homework assignment for the day you should have no trouble keeping your mind busy. :D But, hey, if you get bored just holler - I gots lots more links to all kinds of stuff...some are even important! :p
You are doing a great job, Mom, and you have done nothing wrong so don't let those nasty ole thoughts get you down.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Dearest Tina, Sorry to hear about little Jasper. Bless you both.... I know it's hard and very stressful on you and I certainly understand about the lack of sleep. We have to get up every two hours to let Maya out and she still pees on the carpet. Last night she just stood up in her bed and started peeing, so that was me up at 2.45am cleaning up and getting her a fresh bed sorted out!
Now that you know that Jasper is Addisonian, things should improve, because the vet knows exactly how to treat him now. It's the not knowing which causes all the ups and downs. Addisons is a very treatable disease. I know a dog who had it since he was 4 and he's 10 now. It's a lot more common than you think. My vet was telling me that he has 17 patients on his books with Addisons and that they are all doing well. He, himself has an Addisonian poodle! He said that once they are stable it is quite easy to treat them as long as you keep them monitored. In fact, he said it's better to Addisons than Cushings and there is substantial evidence to support this if you do a bit of research on the net. I know this is very upsetting for you, sweetie, but hang on in there-you'll get things sorted...
Sending lots of hugs your way, from me and Maya
Hi Tina,
Everyone seems to say that Addisons is much easier to deal with than Cushings and is completely manageable. Dogs can live a very long time with it.
I think some sleep and getting an idea of how Addison's is treated will make you feel much better.
hugs,
Sharlene
Judi, Kim, Leslie, Leah, and Sharlene,
I don't know how to thank you all for your comforting words and support. I had myself a good old cry after reading your posts, and am so appreciative of all of you, your help, and your kind words.
Leslie, thank you so much for all of those links. I have done a bit of reading, but hope to hit the "homework" hard this afternoon after I get some more cleaning done.
Kim - no, we have not ruled out diabetes insipidus. This has not ever come up with my vet. I have done a bit of reading on it, and will ask about it when I talk to her next. That should be some time this coming week when we go over the current treatment plan.
Jasper's drinking continues to be excessive, along with the peeing. Other than that he really seems to be feeling pretty good now. Words cannot convey how thankful I am for that. I am seeing some glimmers of his old self come out. It has been months since I think I could say that. I am hopeful that it will continue! :D :D
Thank you all again for the encouragement. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I don't know how I would be functioning at all without all of you and this forum. What a blessing.
Much love and giant hugs to you all and your pups from me and Jasper. xo
Hi Tina,
I did a bit of research on Percorten and increased drinking/urination is listed among the side effects.
http://www.percorten.novartis.us/pdf..._Monograph.pdfQuote:
Occasionally, dogs on PERCORTEN-V therapy may develop PU/PD, which may suggest excess glucocorticoids and/or excess PERCORTEN-V. Should this occur, close monitoring and dose adjustments are required. Initially, the glucocorticoid
dose should be decreased, followed by, if necessary, a decreased PERCORTEN-V dose at unchanged intervals.
Hopefully only a dosing adjustment is needed, has Jasper's vet mentioned that drinking and urination could be increased by the Percorten?
Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.
Love and hugs,
Lori
Tina, I forgot to mention that excessive drinking and urination can be a side effect of the prednisone too!
Hugs from Leah and Maya:)
Hi Lori and Leah,
Yes, I knew that excessive drinking and urination can be a side effect of prednisone. In previous days, my vet mentioned that she thought that this may be what was happening with Jasper. But like Kim said, he was on a low dose then just as he is now (2.5 mg daily). I imagine it would still be possible. He seems to be sensitive to meds, so probably is to the prednisone too.
My vet did not mention that drinking and urination could be increased by the Percorten, but I had read that when I researched about it also. :) I will ask her about it. I have also read that they can be symptoms of Addisons as well as Cushings. Sheesh, lots of possible causes or contributing factors! :rolleyes:
My vet did mention that we will be checking Jasper's electrolytes in 2 weeks from the date of the Percorten injection, and again in 25 days to see how well it is working and how it is maintaining the levels in order to determine if a dosage or interval adjustment is needed. (I think that is what she said, I will clarify the next time I talk to her). She also said something about possibly reducing the prednisone to every other day at some point. So that might help.
Jasper has had the excessive drinking and urinating throughout this entire roller coaster ride, so I really don't know what to think about what is causing it now. It first started due to the high cortisol, but now he is bottomed out so maybe it is because of the Addison's now? Or most likely a combination of things?
Love and hugs to you both,
Tina and Jasper
Hi Tina,
My little Boston is on pred. She weighed 11.5 lbs last time she was weighed, gets 1.25 mg either every other day or daily as needed and she has strong cush signs since starting the pred. Everything except hair loss and skin discoloration is present - excess urination, excess drinking, strong hunger drive, and pot-belly. She pants heavily and easily, and sleeps a lot but that is due to another reason so I can't lay that fully at the feet of the pred.
The times she has been able to manage with every other day dosing presented milder and fewer signs. The times she needs daily dosing, the signs are strong. When I reach to pet her, she has to nibble my fingers just to be sure there isn't something to eat hidden in there. :p She stands at the water bowls and drinks every drop I put in there whether 1/2 cup or a full bowl, around 3 cups...she drinks until it is gone, then usually throws it back up if I don't control her. It seems like she pees constantly. I tried diapers on her a while back and she ended up with red skin around her waist so I stopped using them and just follow her around with paper towels, rags and Nature's Miracle. :D Her skin was in bad shape when I got her and it has improved tremendously so I wasn't willing to risk that discomfort to her for my ease.
I'm not saying the pred is the whole cause behind the signs Jasper is displaying but I did want to share our experience with pred and how it has caused Tash to present as a cush pup when she isn't.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang
Hi Everyone,
I have been getting caught up on some threads and just want to touch base about Jasper. I have had a lot going on unfortunately, and haven't been on the site very much in the past week and a half. :rolleyes:
Leslie, thank you for sharing all of the information about your baby on prednisone. I am hopeful that when we look at tapering the dose that we will see some improvement in the drinking and peeing.
Jasper is still hanging in there and seems to be doing well overall I think. We had originally planned to recheck the electrolytes at the 14 day mark after the Percorten injection. My vet looked over all his labs, and decided that we will wait to recheck the electrolytes at the 25 day mark when the next Percorten injection is due, since his sodium and potassium were not terribly out of line on the last check. He will get the next Percorten on 10/29 so will have blood drawn then and based on those results we will see if any adjustment in the Percorten dose can be done for the next months dose. We will also look into considering decreasing the daily prednisone dose at that time. She said we may look at checking another baseline cortisol in a month or so.
He has been doing great with everything until a few days ago when he started to have decreased interest in eating. Started eating a few bites, and then walking away from the bowl. Most of the time he would eventually finish, but not always. I picked up some Cerenia from the vet last evening and gave him a dose last night because we think he seems to be nauseated. The vet does not think it is related to the addisons. This morning he would not eat at all. He seems hungry but acts like the food in his bowl is icky or something. I talked to my vet again and she suggested getting some pepsid to give him, 5 mg daily. She also said to see if I could get him to eat a little bit of the canned prescription food he was eating after being in the hospital. She said that sometimes when they are nauseated "they hold out for the good stuff". Lol. Well, the little stinker ate the canned food right down. I will give him some more a bit later and then try mixing some with his regular food a little later tonight.
He seems good other than the eating issue. No vomiting, and his poops look good. Energy is a little decreased, but not bad. So off I go to pick up some pepsid!
I have done quite a bit of reading about Addison's , and have not seen where they have a forum like this one. If anyone knows of one, please let me know. I did see a yahoo group, but have not joined it. Does anyone know anything about it? I am hopeful that if Jasper stays with permanent Addison's that I can continue to be involved in this forum. You all feel like my family, and I want to stay here even if he ends up not having Cushings anymore.
Love and hugs to all,
Tina and Jasper