Confused and Overwhelmed-Diagnosed Anal Sac Carcinoma (Woody has passed)

Tracy:
I saw something on our news about your storm and some railway cars crashing. Please stay in and stay safe. I know what you mean about not being called back. It gets to you after a while, and when I get angry with something about Tipper- look out I go nuts then. So this vet learned his lesson about not calling me back, as I will drive to his office and embarrass the living day lights out of him. just no excuse for that, poor business practice, especially when the client has an ill dog. Glad your mom is doing well after her surgery. Good thing you have alternative heat with Woody just getting over his operation and all. Woody is going to pay you back for the snow balls so get ready! Blessings
Patti

Hi Tracy

I saw your question, I cannot remember either!! Must be back in your thread somewhere. N antibiotics off the top of my head are Nitrofurantoin and Norfloxacin. If the bug was enterococcus the nitrofurantoin is the one we use most in humans, along with Amoxicillin. Hope that helps!

Hope your Mum is discharged today, be nice if you can stay with her a couple of days too :)

The UK storm was on our news, with all the power outages and expecting a big storm surge. Hope it settles down as it sounds dangerous to drive in.

Ring that hospital and say you will stay on the line until you speak to them or they give you a definite time to call back. So frustrating when there are communication issues, or can you get your own vet onto them? Hope you hear from them soon. xxx

Well Mum is home, she is sore with a big patch over her eye as its been stitched closed for the moment. I took her home and Woody was looking really strangely at her and wouldn,t go near her until she spoke to him and then he was straight up on her knee sniffing the eye patch. I have popped home to pick up a few bits as we will be staying with mum for a few days and woody refused to come with me, when I left he was currently curled up next to mum on the sofa. Isn,t it great that they just seem to know when someone is not well and needs a little cuddle :D

I have called the hospital again this morning to be told that Ian is on holiday this week argh couldn,t they have told me that yesterday when I rang, I have told the receptionist that she needs to get someone to call me back today, she is going to get Emma the original IMS to call me. I spoke to my own vet, told him that I couldn,t get hold of the hospital and he will try to get hold of them, maybe he will have better luck than me.

The weather has settled down somewhat, and the trees have been removed from the road, but some of my FB friends haven,t been so lucky as they had massive floods and had to be evacuated not good :mad:

Tracy:
Glad to hear your mom is doing well after surgery. That is so cute of Woody staying with your mom. Dogs can sense when something is not right. I am waiting to hear about how Woody paid you back for the snowballs. Take care and you and Woody and your mom stay safe. I hope they got the message that you want called back today about Woody. Blessings
Patti

YAY your Mum is home!! Woody must have thought she was a pirate with that eye patch on, so cute when he heard her voice that he snuggled right on in.

Argghhhh so frustrating with the pet hospital. I must say they sound a bit like my old one, I had difficulty contacting the specialists and even getting an appointment with this regular IMS. But I was attached to them, they had operated on Flynn for his adrenalectomy so I was very disappointed when I felt we were getting mucked around. I don't think they do it deliberately but they just have so many pets going through. But it got to the point when I thought, stuff them... if they are not available when Flynn needs them we will go spend my hard earned money elsewhere. My local vet knew about this other practice and recommended them, initially I was very nervous but now am so pleased we changed and to tell you the truth I couldn't be happier with them. Maybe if this carries on your vet may have some suggestions?

Evening everyone the hospital did ring me back about 6 pm tonight, but not had a chance till now to post with one thing or another. It wasn,t Emma the IMS that called but some woman didn,t catch her name from the Oncology Department, who didn,t have a clue on Woody,s case although his notes are available on there system. I explained that I needed to know his results for the urine cortisol and she told me they didn,t have them. After a full explanation of why the test was performed, and where it was performed she admitted that the Lab has only sent the results to my own vet and not attached them to Woodys case notes. She has apologised and will chase the results up. She asked how Woody was and I kinda lost it a bit with her and all my frustration of being ignored, not knowing what was happening with Woody all came out, I explained about him collapsing and she was oh we need to see him as soon as, eh no you don,t until someone who knows woody,s case calls me back. She has told me that she will chase woodys results up and get Ian Grant to call me on Monday morning, I told her if she didn,t then I would be taking Woody,s case to another hospital. I did apologise to her for my outburst but told her I can,t live with the could be this/that anymore, I need concrete answers. So we will see what happens on Monday. I know of another pet hospital in Edinburgh it is a long drive from me but the part-time vet at my own surgery is a teacher there so I will speak with her next week, and if Glasgow don,t help then I will ask her to refer me to Edinburgh.

My mum is doing well considering and earlier I was cleaning the wound and mum was making the oh, ah noise as it was nipping a bit and Woody started to bark, I had no idea why he was barking so continued and he jumped up on the sofa next to mum and growled and bared his teeth to me :eek::eek: I soon realised that he thought I was hurting his nana so had to stop and do it in another room out of Woodys way. I swear the little guy would have biten me had I not stopped, I thought he was my dog, lol. He is at present curled up at the bottom of mums bed fast asleep with her but I don,t mind as he is looking out for her :rolleyes:

Tracy:
Glad you told that hospital you want something concrete. It is maddening to sit and wonder what is going on and get no answers from them. That is just like a jack Russell to guard someone they care about. you better not even make hand gestures in my house with Tipper near, she will tag you for sure. She doesn't like anyone raising their voice, or moving near anything in her house with their hands. I am glad your mom is getting on the mend and you are able to help her. I would go to another hospital too if I got not results from this one by Monday. Blessings
Patti

awwww, what a sweet boy Woody is! Protecting his nana! He'll help your mom feel better.

I hope the hospital gets it together so you have the answers you deserve. It's so frustrating when we are left hanging and worrying, knowing someone has some answers. Keep after them til you get what you need.

Give that Woody boy a belly rub for being a good nurse with his Nana! :)

He is a good little nurse, providing comfort and protection for his Nana!!

Pleased they at least called you Tracy and I bet Ian will be on the phone on Monday, you would have thought she would have at least read his chart before calling you though, how frustrating is that!

Ha hahahaha ..... Woody is Mom's little guardian angel :) Great story :)

Sometimes concrete answers are hard to come by, Hope to hear some good news soon.

Evening all - Nurse Woody has continued his duties today, he has kept mum company whilst I went for the food shopping, but had to take my gran with me, she is 86 yrs young and is all there and more. She has a brilliant sense of humour and had me in stitches most of the day. I took her back to see my mum and she kept calling Woody, Bruno which is my bridge baby after I corrected her twice i decided to let her call him whatever, she ended up calling him doggie lol.

I have decided to change Woody,s diet to something that might help his colitis, but will speak with the vet first. This colitis is really getting to me not only does it mean I have to get up twice a night to take him out for a poo but I cant go on watching him strain like this. He has also been itchy the past couple of nights, I had a good look over him and he has no "visitors" it appears it is his elbows he is scratching, I had a look and it looks like the white lumps he has (I suspect calcium deposits) are causing the itch. I have written down a list of symptoms that Woody has, and a list of what we know, he has like his MDR and will be putting them to the vet on Monday. I know I am clutching at straws on a diagnosis as he is a little mystery but I need to know what to do next, was his collapse due to the cancer or was it because of his heart or both, should I look at his heart or look towards the cancer I don't know. I hope the vet can shed some light on Monday

What's he eating now Tracy? I know you have experience with this, but when Flynn flares I swap to a new protein. I just keep him on one protein at a time and grain free. Quite often if his bowel is bad he has been sneaking or getting people food, so that's a no no for him. I wonder if a bit of extra fibre would help too, I use 1/4 teaspoon Metamucil dissolved in approx. 50 mls water together with his probiotic. I use the Metamucil just at night but give the probiotic again just 1/4 tsp twice a day. Flynn has been on venison for quite a few months but recently swapped him to lamb and it seems to be doing the trick at the moment *crossed fingers* :D

I hope the vet comes through on Monday too, have you got your list of questions written out?

Your Gran sounds a hoot, love hearing stories of the oldies doing well! xxxx

Trish he is fed chicken based at the moment, get a tablespoon of porridge in morning and night for fibre (advice of surgeon) although I have stopped this on Friday, he takes a priobiotic drink every morning and has done since he arrived almost 4 yrs ago. I have no doubt thT mum and my niece have bn sneaking him food so they've all been told to stop. I think I'm going to change him to duck as my bridge baby did good on that with his IBD. I will look out Bruno's hospital notes and see what else I can do. I think this is why I'm so frustrated with this as I lost Bruno to chronic IBD and never thought I would have to go back down that road :(

I look at some of the links you posted on another thread, makes for interesting reading as it stated it's an endocrine tumour and Woody has the pu/pd symptoms, collapse and possible blood pressure, I'm sure he doesn't have a pheo but worth a mention to the hospital don't you think. I haven't made up questions yet but will do it today it's where do you start with them lol

Tracy:
I hope Woody's IBD get under control as that has to be miserable for both of you. Not sure but would lamb help? I know we can buy venison, rabbit etc. here in the U.S. Now don't get any ideas about going out hunting rabbits!!! Sounds like your mom is a strong woman too and that is wonderful that you still have your Gran and she is such a character. I guess you will have to find the culprit giving Woody food! They probably just think they are being good to him and don't realize the consequences. We are in the single digits here with the streets looking like glass from all the ice. We will definitely be staying in today. How is the weather over there? Blessings
Patti

Tracy, I certainly know your frustration. I really really hope you get some concrete answers tomorrow. It is sooooooo frustrating.

Poor Woody and his IBD. I know personally what that's like :o and it's no fun at all.

Sure am glad to hear nurse Woody is doing his duty. Dogs have an instinct for older people. My dog used to do semi-circles around my mother sitting in a chair when anyone strange was in the house and yet my mother didn't even like dogs. Keesh stayed away from getting close to her, but no one else was going to get close to her either.

Best of luck tomorrow.

I think it is lovely how Woody is so protective of your mum. What a good boy. :)

Your grandmother sounds a dear. Sounds like a really great family Tracy.

I know others have mentioned changing up proteins when the colitus flares up, so that might be a good move.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

We,re back home, I want to be here first thing incase the hospital calls my house phone.

Sharlene I do have a great family and we are all very close, if not for them I don,t know what I would have done in years gone by ;)

I have written out my questions for Ian, and just hope he can shed some light on some of them at least. What,s the bet he doesn,t call, but if he knows whats good for him he will or I will set the K9 angels on him :p

Woody has had a busy weekend, with all his nursing duties and people coming and going in the house, I tried to keep him as stress free as possible, but honestly he was loving all the attention, and really playing up to the "look I,m sick, make a fuss of me " Some of my family can,t believe how well he is looking and yes he does look well and happy and that's all I can wish for him. We came home and he went straight to his bed and is out cold, I did go check on him as he was sleeping so peacefully I had to poke him to make sure he was alright, the dirty look he gave me was priceless. I will let you all know if Ian calls me or not.:)

Hahahaaa! They don't like to be disturbed do they? I can visualize that "what the heck" look. :)

Tracy:
Wishing you luck on your vet visit today and hoping you get some good solid answers to formulate a plan for Woody. He is certainly full of so much personality. Jack Russells are like that they are like little clowns, and when they get you laughing they just love it and keep on doing whatever it is that made you laugh. If I wake Tipper from a deep sleep sometimes she shows her teeth with her lip sticking up. She looks like she is going to tear your hand off, but she is just letting you know she is annoyed. I will anxiously be awaiting the results from your discussion with the vet. Blessings
Patti

Well still no call from hospital and it's almost 2 pm. Woody is very quiet today and hasn't moved off my knee in hours, so unlike him :confused: I called the hospital this morning as we have no power here so I have no landline so have made sure they have my mobile number which they do. The power company has said they hope to have it on by 8 pm tonight better had as my whole house, cooker etc runs on electricity :)

Tracy:
I cannot believe they have not called you yet. There seems to be something going on there. I am sorry you have no power. That is tough when everything is powered with electricity. I am praying for you to get a phone call soon. Is your niece looking after your mom while you are home? It is ok here today, but more storms are coming in the next few days. Blessings
Patti

Well Ian has finally called. He has apologised profusely for taking his time in getting back to me, but assured me that he had been doing lots of research both human and animal into woody,s condition. We spoke in detail about his colitis and his collapsing episode, and he is like me shocked that Woody still has colitis. He will look into different meds that he can take and also agreed with me in changing his protein for his diet. He then discussed his findings from his research, both human and animal but Woody is not a candidate for any of the treatments he found, surgery is an option, but as we can,t find the tumour then it pretty much rules that option out. He says Woody displays a lot of classic symptoms of cushings, pu/pd, the hungar, the pot belly, the increased cortisol in his urine but all tests were negative several times over. But he said he is sure that it is all coming from the adrenal mass, but he still can,t believe that the affected lymph node on the left side, has affected an organ on the right as this is soooo rare, but then so is Woody lol

He knows of one treatment that Woody maybe able to take, which will help him and that's a drug call Pallidia, which in the UK is a new drug for cancer, it originated in the US so anyone over there heard of it.? Its main side effect is diarr. The vet hospital have never used it on any of their patients yet so Woody would be the first animal that they would treat with this. Ian has all the literature on this from the US, but he wants to speak with me face to face to go over all of Woodys case notes and hopefully formulate a plan going forward, he is asking Emma the IMS we saw and Craig my own vet to attend the meeting with us, so we are all together and on the same page sort of speak. He will call me in the next few days for an appointment.

Thoughts please : Would you let your dog be treated with a new drug ?

Tracy:
That is a million dollar question you are asking. If I knew for sure 100% that there was cancer in the adrenal mass and that all the side effects of this drug have been thoroughly studied and had independent clinical trials supporting its efficacy I may go for it, dependent on how much time they feel it would give Woody. There are also the considerations of Woody being a good candidate or not, with his heart issues etc. If I truly knew my dog was going to die soon if I did not do something, and that this drug would extend a good quality of life for him, and he was a good candidate, and having a really qualified person to look after him while on the drug I may go for it. I would have to know the clinical trial stats as to how many became ill and it accelerated their death, and how many were helped and living a good quality of life after taking the drug. My biggest fear would be how a dog would react to this when it has only been tried in humans. Are you saying they have never tried this in any animals? That could be the deal breaker for me as then you could be put in a situation of either curing, or killing them, sorry there is no other way to put it. Are they 100% sure this adrenal mass is going to affect Woody and in how long of a period before it would? Do they feel this drug is safer than removing the adrenal gland? What side effects will he suffer, and how long must her take it? This is really a hard decision that I probably could not make. You will have to get a bunch of questions for the meeting and then think on it a while before doing anything so you know you made a decision you can live with. I do not envy you, having to decide this is terrible. We all need support when we get to a cross road such as this, as this is truly very hard decision to make. God Bless You Both.
Patti

Patti - This drug is for Animals only not humans. Sorry I think I put it wrong this is the first time the pet hospital would use it on an animal, as its a relatively new animal drug to the UK and they,ve not had any canditates for it. I have research it a little and its used for MCT (Mast Cell Tumour) or skin cancer in dogs, from what I can see the most side effect is GI upset, hence the reason he wants Woody,s colitis under control before we consider it.

Ian has been back on the phone just now, he has discussed Woody,s case with Emma IMS, Jo Ward (head of oncology), Laura and Mike who are both IMS, and with the symtoms woody has, they have said sounds like adrenal cushings, but with all bloods being negative what can they do. They want to run another LDDS test on Woody to see if it has changed as its 2 months since his last one. So we have an appointment on Thursday at 0930 hours to see all of them, including my vet, bit nervous to be dealing with 6 vets all at once, but Ian says he is confident that I will give them a run for their money, as I sound a very clued up owner. (thanks to all you lol)

Ian also mentioned in this phone call that when discussing Woody with the others he didn,t tell them about him collapsing, when they said cushings he then told them about Woody collapsing and 3 out of the 5 said it maybe a Pheo there dealing with.:( So on Thursday woody will be having a LDDS and a full check up, bloods and BP etc, we will discuss his case in detail, discussing the possible Cushings and the Pheo, and the Pallidia will be discussed. I,m wibbling muchly lol:eek:

Geez Tracy, this is always a very difficult decision. I have been doing some reading on this drug and it seems to have about a 40ish % success rate which is considered pretty good.

It only seems applicable to certain types of of Grade II and III, cutaneous mast cell tumors. Here is a link to a pretty good information sheet on it and I hope it will help you form some questions that you can discuss with your vet.

http://www.nevog.com/uploads/news/do...s/palladia.pdf

Ideally your vet could give you a long or short term prognosis and along with your thoughts on Woody's quality vs quantity of life. You really know woody best, so after your discussion with the vet, and gathering all the information, go with what your gut tells you.

I went back in your thread but could not find the description of the collapsing incident. can you repeat it/describe it for me please?

Are they saying this new drug is their recommendation for treating a pheo? I'd need to ask them a boat load of questions - seems like there are alot of nasty side effects.

Thanks!
Kim

Kim, here is where Tracy described Woody's collapse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Woodydog

I'm back but little Woody dog is being kept in for a few hours. By the time I got to the vets 30 mins away Woody had come round and looked a bit better. My vet examined him, his temp was fine and his colour was good my vet thinks that Woody had a smpgo (sp) it when the blood pumping from the heart doesn't get pumped quick enough the the dog faints it's common in Boxers apparently so he reckons it's been Woodys heart murmour has caused the problem one thing after another. It didn't want to poke and prod Woody or take bloods he just wanted him to relax and get back to normal but does want to keep an eye on him for the next few hours so I will pick Woody up at 8pm tonight. I can't stop shaking as one minute he was having a drink of water and the next he had collapsed out cold with head in water dish I had to grab him flip him onto his side and take his head from the water dish he was out for ages. I'm scared that I'm running out of time with him (cry)

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Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[QUOTE=Trish;129743]OMG what a shock for you and Woody. Like Sharlene I hope they did check his BP, that adrenal mass could cause BP spike if it was a pheo /[QUOTE].

Tracy said obs were OK, but not 100% sure if BP was checked. But the vet thought it was due to low BP. But it sounded like it affected him for a while as she commented he was still walking around like a little drunk person when they got home a few hours later.

The surgeon who did Flynn's adrenalectomy a year ago discussed using Palladia. Again last month in Auckland, this IMS also mentioned this for Flynn after the liver resection. "Metronomic chemotherapy +/- palladia are possible medical treatment options for Flynn. These are unlikely to be all that helpful though" He told me that it is more useful when the tumour is microscopic and only starting to form and the use of Palladia will disrupt the formation of the blood supply (angiogenesis) that would feed the potential regrowth of the tumour therefore slowing it down or preventing new growth. Most of the research I read was with mast cell tumours but apparently it is being used with other tumours. His thinking with Flynn's liver tumours (either adenoma or low grade tumour) is that they are already formed so its not so useful in that case. Plus GI side effects can be troublesome and with Flynn's IBD that could be a deal breaker but I do indeed on discussing it with him again when I see him for our next checkup early February.

I am pleased you have this team discussion coming up Tracy, and further investigations. It sure does seem a coincidence with his known adrenal mass and the collapse, they could be related and I hope we can get to the bottom of it. xxxxxx

Quote:

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Originally Posted by frijole

I went back in your thread but could not find the description of the collapsing incident. can you repeat it/describe it for me please?

Are they saying this new drug is their recommendation for treating a pheo? I'd need to ask them a boat load of questions - seems like there are alot of nasty side effects.

Thanks!
Kim

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Kim

Woody,s collapse was about 10 days ago, he was resting on the sofa got up to get a drink and I noticed he was walking with what looked like stiff legs, at first I thought he had hurt his leg (he has a luxating patella) he then went to get a drink and as I was watching him he just collapased in front of me, his head fell into his water dish and he fell against the side of the sofa, when he came round he was very disorientated and was staggering, he was a bit unstable on his legs for 2 days and very subdued afterwards. His BP wasn,t checked at my own vets as he doesn,t have the facilities to check, his last BP check was at the hospital a few weeks ago and it was I think 163/83 which was borderline hypertension.

The hospital aren,t saying he defo has a pheo, just some of his syptoms fit for it, but they also fit for other things too, he said we can,t rule it out as a possiblility. He didn,t say if the Palladia would help if it was a pheo, which is why I have to go in on Thursday for a full discussion on this drug, and he will show me the statics, studies etc.

Tracy

Trish - I hope we get to the bottom of this once and for all as well. I am a bit nervous facing all the professionals, but the more heads involved the better the chance of coming up with a plan I think, its like fresh eyes looking over him and his notes. I am wary of Palladia for the same reason as you the GI upset, but all I can do is go on Thursday and listen to them and see the studies for myself. The good thing is that Ian isn,t doing any treatment to woody whilst he still has the Colitis, he said its a priority to get this fixed out. He kept apologising to me, that Woody still had it, and how sorry he was that such a cheeky chappie had got sick, I was almost in tears.

This is Ian, Dr McDreamy eh no so sure lol

http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/vet/sma.../iain%20grant/

Thanks. That was a scary episode. Annie did have the stiff leg thing but she never collapsed. In her case her leg just gave out. That doesn't help you at all. Glad you have lots of qualified eyes on this and will be interested to see what they say. Hang in there! Kim

Tracy:
Thinking of you and Woody this morning and hoping that all is well. Blessings
Patti

Evening all. We,ve had a pretty busy day here, firstly I had to take mum to hospital as her stitches were bothering her, but the doctor sorted it out for her, she is healing well :D I then started the dreaded Christmas shopping and everywhere was really busy, so I gave up, but did manage to buy Woody his Christmas toys. When I got home I dumped the bags and ran to the little girls room, I could hear woody in the bags and was shouting from the loo for him to leave them alone, next thing Woody appears at the bathroom door holding in his mouth his Christmas toy, little sod wouldn,t give me it back, he has carried it everywhere with him today, slept with it under his chin and has the look of All is good in Woodys world on his face. Looks like I will need to buy him something else now.:p

My vet called me tonight after his surgery to check on Woody and let me know he will be attending the discussion on Thursday, he offered to pick me up and we could go together, I have politely declined, Woody can be a barker in the car sometimes so I know I would be on edge. He said that he is intrigued to see what they come up with, as he can,t help Woody at the moment, as he has never dealt with anything like this in his practice, he has dealt with anal sac carcinoma before but not neuroendocrine tumours, so it will be a learning curve for my vet and myself.

Tracy:
Woody aims to please and he never disappoints. Yeah!!!!!!!!!! I got my Woody fix today. He is the craftiest little JRT ever. Her got his present early, he figured why should I have to wait after all I 've been through!!! He deserves it mom so you'll just have to find another something that tickles his fancy. Tipper was naughty today too as she could not walk in this frigid air. Blessings
Patti

Hi.. I thought it was just my dog that rooted through the bags when I came home. Glad to hear Woody does too. It's almost like "whatcha bring me this time?" Every bag has to have their head stuck in it, sniffed and completely checked out. They are soooo funny. He stole his Christmas present just so you'd get another one for him.

Will be thinking about you on Thursday with positive thoughts. Woody deserves the best.

Oh no:-) even our cats can't resist a bag!
How cute though, I wouldn't have the heart to take the toy back. I'm a total sucker.

Tracy:
I am praying for you and Woody that Thursday turns out to be a good day about getting answers and formulating a new plan. God Bless you both.
Patti

Just to show that I think little Woody is a faker lol He does love to play, and I love to see him like this :D

http://s876.photobucket.com/user/woo...a6eef.mp4.html

Tracy:
This dog is hilarious and does stuff just like Tipper. Tipper ruins everything she rips it apart. It is so great to see him play like this. I love the end part where he throws it up over his head. Then the look on his face when he is done is priceless. I just wanted to mention that now that I got a look at his whole body, I am suspect of Cushings, and I will tell you why. Glynda on here told me to check Tipper for a fatty deposit by her breastbone. Tipper's chest bone hangs down much lower than it used to and Woody looks identical. Please mention this to the Dr.'s on Thursday as Glynda knows her stuff. We have terrible cold and wind right now 12 degrees here. Stay warm and safe with that little comedian Woody. Blessings
Patti

Well, he certainly looks chipper! Bright eyes and doing a fine job of killing that sausage man! Looks like he's healing well on the back end too.

Bonnie and Angel Criss Ann