Tipper - adrenal tumor/breathing issues

Patti,

It sounds like you're heading in the right direction now with the veterinary care and I'm happy that Tipper's vet is consulting with Dechra.

Sending positive thoughts!

When in doubt withhold the pill is our motto, so if Tipper was off enough for you to be concerned then I'm glad you withheld the pill today. I'm still not clear why Dechra thinks her 2.3 is low as that is not in their literature that I could find. I do know in Dr. Peterson's December blog, he said he prefers that post number to be no lower than 2ug/dl.

Also, keep in mind, that because Zoe's cortisol was higher at 7.2, I also lost control of her cortisol for a good six weeks following surgery.

I know you always do what is best for Tipper and guard her with your life. I was originally concerned about talk of having to change Tipper's dose and having surgery shortly there after. I also think though, it is wise to discuss extra issues we face with our Cush pups and surgery. Often times, the vets dont bring it up unless we ask and because of my experience with Zoe last summer with just minor surgery, I learned to make sure a plan was in place to address her ability to cope with all the stress surgery and a possible hospital stay can cause.

I'm sure Tipper will be feeling better soon.

(((((((((hugs)))))))))))))

Hope Tipper starts feeling better and is more herself as the day goes on. I do think it was a good idea to postpone any sort of treatment/surgery until she is herself.
I think one always has to remember that the numbers are guidelines and not all dogs are optimal at the same numbers. It could be that Tipper does better with a little bit higher of a number, although I wouldn't thing too much higher as you mentioned that symptoms were still there when the number was over 5 on the post draw.
Normally after an ACTH test, the cushing symtoms seem to go up, not downward for a day or even two. So, I am wondering what is actually going on with Tipper. Is her cortisol dropping for some other reason? Is this something else? It's very hard to say. When was her last dose change and what was the last ACTH test result?
I'll look through your thread if I get a chance. I have to get back to work though now. :(

hugs, hang in there patti!
sharlene and Molly mufin

Sharlene:
Dechra seems to be concerned about her pre number dropping below 1.4. especially now that she is experiencing other symptoms of low cortisol. Could it be that between the test on Monday and now on Wednesday she dropped further, but not into Addisons? That is my guess at this point. Dechra seems to think she should go from 30mg maybe to 20. They are to call me when they get this all sorted out with my Vet. I will post what they finally recommend, and will let all of you advise me since I trust all of you more than any of them! Blessings to All.
Patti

Just a quick reminder of where we are at with dosage and results for Tipper:

Vetoryl dosage and ACTH test results history:

11/23/2012 10mg AM 10mg PM
PRE 1.4
POST 8.7

11/28/2012 moved to 20MG AM 10MG PM

01/02/2013
PRE 1.5
POST 5.4


02/08/2013 20MG AM 10MG PM
PRE 2.0
POST 3.5

04/09/2013 20MG AM 10MG PM
PRE 1.1
POST 2.3

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Sharlene:
Tipper has been on one dose of 30 mg Vetoryl sometime now.I will find the exact date she started on this particular dosage- I believe from recollection about 2 months or longer. My Vet called and said he and Dr. Fertig talked this over and I did right to stop the Vetoryl. Dr. Fertig suggested that Tipper stay off it until Sunday. Then I am to resume her 30mg dosage, which scares me. I thought she may have to go down to 20mg. but Dr. Fertig said usually in the early stages of the Vetoryl dosing they may do it but since she has been on this for a while he thinks to go back with that dose. What does everyone think of this reasoning?? Also we thought of something that may have been a factor. The storms we are having and had last night. This is the first storm since last year when she started on this drug, and I was told that this drug can make them frightened of noise. So what my Vet said is she has always been fearful of them, but her cortisol was much higher and she was more able to deal with the stress. Now that her cortisol is down, maybe she is not able to handle the stress as much. This does make sense to me, although I am still leary of what exactly is going on. She is safe for now so that is my concern. I am to watch her and see how she acts the next few days, he said if she is acting funny to bring her in and get her electrolytes and temperature taken. I will monitor her closely as she sticks right with me until the thunder and then she runs in my closet. Lord I think I need me a big old tranquilizer! That is one reason I have never opted to quell my anxiety with them, as I would be eating them like M&Ms with all this going on. My Tipper needs me so I need to be alert, and at the ready for any emergency. Does all this make sense to anyone?? God Bless Us All.
Patti

Valerie:
Thanks for thinking of us, we need all the positive energy we can get. Hope Daisy is having a good day today. Blessings to you both.
Patti

Thanks Patti,
Daisy agreed to take a short walk with me today :)
Very happy to see that!

Isn't it amazing what Cortisol can and can't affect? Sounds reasonable to me too.

I'm wondering too if it is not low cortisol that you are seeing but something else going on. It is hard to know sometimes. Gosh when Zoe had the eye ulcer with all that eye pressure and she not able to open her eyes and when she did they rolled back in her head, I was shoving prednisone down her throat and running to the car with her.:eek::eek::eek:

I think we are in for storms all week, they hit us and then head on to you.

Hang in there Patti. Lets wait to see how Tipper does the next few days. I'm not sure what I think about keeping her dose the same right now when you start the meds again.:o

Hoping that Tipper does well with the meds, this disease is so scary, I wish they would find a cure other then surgery...

Mel:
Thanks for always popping in and checking up on my girl as I know you are busy working. Hope your heart is starting to heal. Tipper and I are sending good vibes your way. God Bless you and your baby.
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Well we had a horrible storm last night, and the thunder was ridiculous. Tipper stayed in the closet all night. Luckily I took her out during a break in the activity and she went potty. Otherwise she will hold it and refuse to go out. She seemed better this morning, but ate only some of her food, which is very unlike her. Dr. Fertig from Dechra said to withhold the Vetoryl until Sunday. I hope the cortisol doesn't build up that much and cause her other problems, and then when we resume the meds have a hard time getting her level down again. What are chances of that? Has anyone else had that experience that had to take their dog off meds for a short period? How did this afffect your dogs numbers? I hope this is not going to ruin the calm period we were experiencing before this glitch. I am very troubled by the number of new members that are added to our roster daily. It seems so many more dogs are being diagnosed with this. I can't imagine this combined with undiagnosed numbers, and people that don't know about this forum. This is a huge growing problem. As so many people love their pets like family members we need to seek out a way to get research and find a cure for this. When you are dealing with a disease that affects like their kidneys or eyes or something, it is easier to deal with, but this disease affects everything making it nearly impossible to conquer. I am thankful to God for Tipper handeling this as well as she has, as she is such a blessing to me. The Dr.'s all agreed that her excellent physical shape before this started has given her an edge with all this. She did also do her walk this morning. She was ready to go and I wanted to get it out of the way since I can see we are to get more storms today and she will be in. All the Dr.'s told me that the more physical activity she keeps up with the better off she will be. I thank my luck stars that she is still ready to go walking everyday. I think mentally it is good for her also. I will continue to monitor her and note any weird behavior for when I talk to the Dr. next time. Oh I wanted to mention that last night and this morning since she has had no Vetoryl it seems the muscus thing is more pronounced. I will definitely be telling them this. Blessing to all.
Patti

Patti, I don't know what the effects will be for withholding the Vetoryl but I want to say that I hope everything will be just fine for Tipper.

Hope you and Tipper have a good day today and no more storms.

Sending hugs to you and Tipper, poor little pup hiding in the closet, they are so human aren't they? Take care of you too!!

Patti,

hopefully the weather has calmed and you and Tipper can get some much needed rest!

Hugs!

Hey Patti

Hoping those storms miss you both tonight, closet is not fun especially when she is used to the bed! Does she seem a bit better this afternoon?

I also hope you are feeling better in yourself and that your lupus symptoms have settled down?

I know what you mean about the new posts, breaks my heart a little. I just pray for good updates for everyone with no issues

My heart is still broken in bits but grateful to still have my little man, I tell myself it could be worse and it could, I know I did the best I could for my Tia I just wish it would have been enough

No more sadness in your thread, positive thoughts only. Hope to hear good news for you both soon

Big hug, kiss for Tipper

Mel
Xxxxxxx

Me too Mel,

on the plus side - I must have been doing something right since the IMS doc advised me not to change Daisy's food or supplements at this time :)

So, the feelings that I had in regard to what could I have done differently have subsided somewhat.

We don't know what we would do without all of you! I'm no longer the scared to death, lost cushpup mom <3.

We have each other and hope, and among other things I am grateful for is the fact that Cushings in itself is not a painful disease and there are options!

I can't stress enough to the "newbies" how important it is to find and IMS specialist to work in conjunction with your regular vet, regardless of how much confidence you have in them.

Here's to an uneventful weekend!

Patti, was it you that sent this rain to us in CT? LOL

Hi Everyone:
Thank you for all your well wishes for Tipper as the rain continues. I tried to send this rain your way Valerie, but don't think it worked out too well! It did rain during the night and Tipper did manage a little better with it. I was awake most of the night, and was observing Tipper now that she is off the Vetoryl. She did continue to have some muscle tremors. The odd thing is the constant moving around every few seconds that she had been doing stopped. I am just wondering if the Vetoryl is causing some kind of a reaction in her nerve endings, and she has a bad sensation and moves every few seconds. There is something to this as she has stopped doing that. Also I did notice a bit more of the congestion sounds in the throat, and more, and louder snoring. It is raining as I am typing this and she seems a little better with it. I think my Vet may have been right for once on something. She had such little cortisol that the stress from the storm did her in. He said her body was accustomed to a higher level which dealt with the stress better. That is a very disconcerting feeling knowing that the storm season has just really begun. She does have a thundershirt, but it has never worked on her. I am not even sure with her temperment change that she would let me put it on her. Also this morning instead of jumping on me at 5:00 a.m. for food she just layed there. That is very unlike her since the Cushings. She will knock you over like a bowling pin to get at her food. She was not ravenous and ate normally not like the usual 100 miles an hour. You would think without the Vetoryl she would have a totally different reaction. I am really scratching my head on this one. I dread when Sunday comes and I must start up her Vetoryl again. I am not sure what kind of a reaction it will bring, and that scares me. I am taking it easy today as I am mentally and physically worn out. The medicine the Dr. gave me for the rash on my face is giving me terrible headaches, so I have to take Excedrin to counteract it. It is almost gone so I am glad of that. Stress can do really bad things to your body. The things we do for our little loved ones is never ending! God Bless you all and all your babies.
Patti

always something patti with these kids !!! so sorry the tipster is not feeling well.i still wonder about those awful tremors milo had when he was on the vetoryl,i truly think the medicine was the cause...btw we are getting rain here all day in ny so valerie is getting it too.hoping that this day turns around for you guys...and stress is a very bad thing,as a massage therapist i would say that is the number one reason people come in for...maybe it would be a good idea to go get one soon......take care ! patty(milo)meka xoxox

I often wonder how many of us parents are going to end up with the human Cushing's, or Addison's, simply from all the stress we live with concerning our cush babies! :D;)

Leslie;
With Lupus I have had my share of prednisone in the past, so the Cushings someday could be reality for me. I can't imagine how a human would feel, but at least they have the advantage of speech, and can tell poeple what is wrong, where our poor babies can't. God Bless
Patti

We never knew Zoe was afraid of thuderstorms until we dropped her cortisol but then her hearing went so she was better about them, though I thought they were supposed to sense the bariactric pressure dropping. The other day when the storms were really bad and our yard was so flooded, the rain stopped for a bit and neither of my pups wanted to go outside. They both took a few whiffs of the air, and turned right aroung to go back inside:rolleyes:

Daisy does that too and I have to bribe her with sweet talk to go out. On the plus side, she's out and does what she needs to in a flash!

Hey Patti

How you both doing today? Hopefully you both had a better night?

Mel
Xxxxx

Hi Mel, Valerie, and Everyone:
Tipper has a pretty good day yesterday, considering the rain etc. I am noticing acid reflux and that congestive sound form her throat, like trying to clear mucus. She seemed to have some tummy distress yeaterday and threw up her lunch, but all the other meals were fine. I read in someones thread about their dog having mucus in its stool- and lots of it. I am perplexed as to where this mucus is coming from? If I could find the answer to that it would help in getting to the bottom of Tipper's problem. I noticed for the last few days her swallowing hard, and trying to clear her throat by sticking her tongue out. I am hoping the IMS can connect the dots for me. Now I am in a situation on what to do again. Since Tipper has been off the Vetoryl for a few days now and goes back on it tomorrow, how am I going to know her number before she sees the IMS. She was just tested days ago, so I can't put her through that again. Then she will have to be retested in a month to see if her level is ok. I don't know what to do. Knowing her numbers last Monday of per 1.1 and post 2.3. I am wondering if these 4 days off would have made her climb to a number unacceptable to be put under?? What does everyone think I should do?? It is terrible to think of 2 ACTH tests in one week, I can't do that to her. She has been very snorty and gurgly sounding this morning, sort of like when someone has a cold so I have to get to the bottom of this mucus, and breathing problem. I may give her some benedril later to see if that helps again. I feel something bad coming if I do not get this problem solved asap. Hope everyone is doing well,and having a quiet weekend with the babies. God Bless Us All.
Patti

Hey Patti

I think the mucus you are referring to was on skys thread and it was from Shysies bottom :eek: She has some dodgy chicken which caused that

Could they just do a resting cortisol check rather than the full simulation? Tia went off her medicine once for 7 days and she had full blown symptoms back but every dog is different as we well know

How you both doing today? Does she seem any better?

Big hug to you and a kiss to sweep Tipper

Mel
Xxxxxx

Hi Mel:
I'll have to see about what you said. Thank you for always thinking of us and all the help you offer. Hope all is going well for you, don't work too hard. Blessings
Patti

Hi Everyone:
Well I had to start Tipper back on her Vetoryl today.Oddly I did not see any symptoms return during the 4 days she was off of it. it would seem the pressing issue now is the breathing and throat problems. Compounding the problem is acid reflux. She is getting it a lot lately. I am sure with her throat already experiencing problems this could burn or be painful. I am wondering if the meds, and supplements are making her stomach a little acidy? Yesterday I gave her 1/4 of a Pepcid AC. I used to use them on her a few years back, but it seemed instead of helping they would give her a stomach ache. I believe she was taking half a table though. Maybe this was too much for her?? Does anyone else have any experience with this issue?? I am going to give her a 1/4 tablet today. I wanted to wait an hour or so after she had her Vetoryl. Does anyone using these know if they give them with food or not?? The last few days I can hear Tipper swallowing real hard, and that trying to clear her throat by sticking her tongue out still. I am very worried about what is causing this. Her appt. is the 26th with the IMS.We are supposed to get 60's weather today so maybe we can go out on the porch and sit for a while. The simple things I can do with her now, bring me much happiness. If you have any other remedies for acidy stomach please let me know. Thank you in advance. Blessings to all and all your babies.
Patti

Patti,

I'm wondering if the sticking out of the tongue and clearing her throat could be related more to the acid reflux than the Cushings? I ask because I have acid reflux and sometimes feel like swallowing hard clears my throat too. Sometimes it hurts, sometimes it doesn't. Drinking water helps too.

I've read some on Cushings in humans, of course I'm hoping that you don't ever get it, but if you do - there are more treatment options for humans than dogs. The biggest factor being that our body parts are much larger than theirs.

Yes, get out and enjoy the sun! We'll be doing the same thing today :)

I've never used pepcid for Daisy, but if Tipper can tolerate and likes canned pumkin, that would be something to try as it coats the stomach and has helped Daisy quite a bit.

Hoping that you enjoy the day!

xoxo

Most members were giving the Pepcid about an hour before the meal with Vetoryl, on an empty stomach.

I tried that with Zoe and after a week or so on the Pepcid, she started spitting up in the middle of the night ( that was when she was on once day Vetoryl dosing) Zoe nevers spits up or vomits. So then I tried giving it in the afternoon on an empty stomach, same thing happened.

I have not tried it since.

Hi Patti,

I just read this on one website:

Quote:

---

Plain yogurt, which contains acidophilus is known to be a soothing remedy for upset tummies in both humans and dogs. A tablespoon either served alone or mixed with bland rice will help aid in a digestion into

Read more: http://therealowner.com/health/the-n...#ixzz2QSVjC5pu

---

Sharlene

Sharlene:
Thanks for the tip I am definitely going to try that as I eat greek yogurt and she can eat some of mine. Blessings
Patti

Valerie;
I know the Vets say to use pumpkin to keep them going regular. How do you keep the pumpkin from going bad once you open a can? I guess you could put it into small quantities and freeze it?? How much do you usually give Daisy? Thanks for the help. Blessings
Patti

My boy, Harley, got an upset tummy from the pepcid ac so I started him on slippery elm bark (SEB), SEB is great stuff.

Patti,
I coat the bottom of her food dish (two teaspoons I think) and put dry food on top of it.

If you buy the small Libby's cans in the baking aisle, I put the rest in a Tupperware containing in the fridge and it lasts for the week.

Yogurt was mentioned to me as well, but I was told to find all natural yogurt (not Greek). Since then, I've heard conflicting information about whether or not dogs can really tolerate it so I stuck with the pumpkin.

I hope that she feels better soon!

we have added pumpkin usually in kongs for many years for our pups as treats for many years,sure is a helpful aid for keeping their poop regular....patty(milo)meka xoxox

Hey Patti and Tipper too, hope things get back to smooth sailing for you both, this disease is so tough...it's so nice to have this site and when you have problems, there is always someone to help...sending hugs and tummy rubs....take care

Hi Everyone:
This is the second day of Tipper back on the Vetoryl and all seems ok. I have been laying awake observing her at night for a few nights now. Valerie I think you may have turned the light bulb on in my head. When you had acid reflux did your mouth get real dry? I noticed when Tipper wakes up at night she is trying to swallow, and I can hear that the soft tissure in her mouth and throat are very dry and sticky sounding, and she can hardly swallow. I am fairly sure now that acid reflux is the problem. She has had it for years, sometimes going away and coming back. When she was a puppy she had an ear infection that would not go away and my Vet then put her on a strong antibiotic. At her recheck the Vet said she needed another round. Little did I know this would do permanent damage to her stomach, as she developed acid reflux from it. It has become worse the last few months, I assume because of the Vetoryl in her stomach even though it is taken with food. Also the supplements she gets. I am afraid she probably has damage to her esophagus from all this and that is the cause of her problems. I am going to have to get the IMS to investigate this theory, and see if there is anything to soothe and heal her throat. I know I use Manuka Honey and Slippery Elm Bark, but after this many years she may require a medication to put this in check. I don't want to have her cortisol under control and lose her to something like this now, we have gone too far to slide back. Sometimes it seems funny you catch onto some things right away and other elude your thoughts, even though they are very evident. I am sure glad you brought that up. I think that is why she is more comfortable laying straight out, and can't stay on her sides, as the acid must creep up when she lays that way. It is supposed to get to 70 here today, so maybe she and I can go out on the porch. Later we are to get storms so that will ruin her day. Letti thank you for your kind encouragement it is always nice to hear from you and Simba. God Bless Us All.
Patti

Everyone:
I forgot this little tidbit when doing Tipper's daily update. My neighbor, who is by no means well off, has a Cocker Spaniel that developed bladder stones. She could not afford the Xrays,and normally if I had it would give it to her to help the dog, but I don't.
She went back to the vet as the dog started to pass blood. The vet said she did not need the xrays she could feel a walnut sized stone in her bladder. The Vet said it would be 500.00 to remove it. Little did my neighbor know that my Vet wouldn't have even considered it for under 1500.00. So she told the vet she could not afford 500.00. The vet pondered it for a while and said ok I'll do it for 300.00!!!! I am in shock as none of these vets bargain with you now days. It is truly a miracle and her dog will be saved!! Thank God I still believe in miracles.
Patti

What a great story about your friend's dog! Thanks for sharing!:)
How is Tipper doing today?

Kathy and Buddy:)