My Pug Scoop (Precious Scoop has passed... )

Hi everyone,
I have been reading some posts on here for a couple of weeks. Seems like a great place with wonderful people. I don't have much time right now to get into details. I just wanted to get started. I feel so helpless and frustrated. I cry so much. My heart is breaking for my Scoop. He's had diabetes for 2 years and was diagnosed on 9/20 with Cushing's. Although we thought that might be the case a couple of months ago. Things started in July with infections in both ears and both eyes. Then came Vestibular disease, he still has the head tilt. He had an ulcerated ear. So much, it makes my head spin. Scoop will be 12 on 10/7. Last week he weighed 18.8lb. He was holding steady between 21 and 22lb since he started with diabetes until a couple of months ago. So he has lost weight, not typical of Cushing's. Vet says could be all the muscle wasting, which looks like a lot on him or another problem. I wish they could find out for sure. I have been so upset lately. It's so hard to see how much he has changed in a couple of months. The Vet says well he is an old dog and the diabetes might have just worn him down and the Cushing's hit hard. The Vets keep telling me to prepare myself. Scoop started 20mg Vetoryl last Thursday. I'm hoping it will help but I might be asking for a miracle. I was wondering if others have experience with diabetes and Cushing's? The Vet said it is hard to control both. Thanks everyone for listening. I'll be checking back tonight.
Vicki

Yes...there are a few here who are managing Cushings and diabetes. There is a sister forum to this one that deals with just diabetes.

Hopefully you have copies of all of lil Scoop's blood work and tests. Post them here ASAP. Cushings is very often misdiagnosed with false positives. If the diabetes was uncontolled during testing for Cushings, that result is probably not a good one to go on.

Hopefully you have been keeping a close eye on Scoop! Did your vet give you any prednisone incase his cortisol drops too low? Did he/she tell you want to watch out for?

Glad you are here and can't wait for more details on Scoop! Love that name!

Yes, if you are not a member already, please do register at k9diabetes.com. They are our sister site and the experts on diabetes.

http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum

I'm glad you found us and am sure our members who are dealing with both conditions will be along soon to share with you.

Welcome to you and Scoop!
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Hello and welcome from me too. Absolutely recommend joining the k9diabestes forum mentioned. They are very well versed in dealing with the diabetes/cushings mixture. It is good to be a part of both.
All those things going on, it is possible that the cortisol would be high as a result of those. What other symptoms have you seen of cushings? Was an LDDS test done also?
Poor little thing. It is so hard to see them lose weight and not be themselves.
We are practically the owners of the Kleenex brand around here by now. So very well versed in tears and share them freely. If you hurt, we hurt. It is that simple.
So when you have time, lets get some test results posted showing the abnormals and talk about the cushings. Also what kind of BG numbers are you seeing. Is the diabetes under control?

Hang in there!
Sharlene and Molly muffin

Hi and thanks to everyone for the welcome.
Steph n' Ella-my daughter picked the name Scoop. Scoop is a fawn Pug. I also have a black Pug. His name is Raleigh. He is 3 years younger than Scoop.
Yes, I have been watching him, like a hawk. I do have prednisone and the vet did say what to watch for. I have been asking her lots of questions.
I will definitely check out the diabetes site. Scoop's diabetes have not been much trouble the past 2 years. He's done well till this July. He had surgery Aug 2011 to remove some lumps. He has had mast cell tumors in the past. After the surgery the hair on his chest never grew back. On his side and leg the hair grew back but not totally. You can still see where he was shaved. He has had what the vet calls a rats tail for a year or two. He also has hair missing at the top of his back and the skin is dark there. His ALK PHOS levels have been going up the last couple of years. This July it was 1712. A couple of years ago the vet did UCCR test because of his levels going up but was neg. He had the LDDS test done 9/20/12. The vet then did an ultra sound. I asked her if she was sure he has Cushing's. She said yes. He had a BG curve done on 8/30 so that was before he had the Cushing's test. The vet said she was happy with it. He is having an ACTH done on Monday and the vet wants to spot check his BG. He has the excessive drinking and urinating, couple of accidents in the house, and all he wants to do is eat. I have the results from his blood work in July. There are quite a few out of range. I will post tomorrow night when I have more time.The LDDS results were:
Pre Dex 12.1 Ref range 1.0-6.0 ug/dl
Post 4 HR DEX 8.7 Ref range less than 1.5 ug/dl
Post 8 HR DEX 11.1 Ref range less than 1.5 ug/dl
Further testing required to differentiate adrenal tumor from pituitary-dependent hyperadrenocorticism.
On the ultrasound his liver is enlarged and both his adrenal glands are enlarged but normal shape. L adrenal 30x10mm R adrenal 23x12mm
His liver has a spot of some kind but she said she didn't know what it was unless a biopsy is done. I will get the blood test results posted tomorrow night. Got to get to bed. Thanks everyone for all your help and concern and especially the love.

Hi-I have Scoop's blood test results. They are from 7/17/12. These are the ones that are high or low.

Test- Result, Reference Range

ALK. PHOSPHATASE - 1712, 10-150 U/L
ALT(SGPT) - 392, 5-107 U/L
AST(SGOT) - 64, 5-55 U/L
GGT- 21, 0-14 U/L
AMYLASE- 424, 450-1240 U/L
CHOLESTEROL- 513, 112-328 mg/dl
GLUCOSE- 190, 60-125 mg/dl
CHLORIDE- 101, 105-115 mEq/L
ANION GAP- 27, 12-24 mEq/L
T4- 0.5, 1.0-4.0 ug/dl
HGB- 19.1, 12-18 g/dl
HCT- 57.3, 37-55%


Thank you.
Vicki

Well...what really sticks out to me is the T-4. That measures thryroid function. At .5, Scoop is hypothyroid. Hypothyroidism (low thyroid) is comon in dogs with Cushings. It is also one of the endocrine disorders that can give you a false positive on a LDDS test and other Cushings testing. There is a very simple solution for hypothyroidism and this is synthetic replacement hormones that are readily available and cheap.

I would talk to your vet and request a test called a "Free T-4." This is a blood test that will tell you more information about your Scoop's thyroid hormone levels. These results can tell you and your vet if the low thyroid is primary or secondary because of Cushings. After the test, hopefully your vet will perscribe Scoop some thyroid medicine. My Ella is on Soloxine.

A rule of thumb is .01 mg of hormone per pound 2 times a day. For example Ella is 29 pounds and she is on .25 mg of soloxine 2 times a day. The first vet that I worked with didn't do the calculation and put her on .5 mg and that threw her to the other end of the scale into a hyperthyroid state!

Once on the synthetic hormones, my Ella perked up right away. Before treatment, she was very lethargic, had very oily/waxy skin, and hair loss. Hopefully Scoop's issues are all related to thyroid problems (oh and the diabetes) and he will improve quickly! AND NO Cushings!

Steph n' Ella-I wish that were the case. The vet and I did talk about a test for the low t4 but she thinks the low results are caused from the Cushing's. She said if I want she would do the test but she would rather wait and do a repeat of all the bloodwork once he's been on the Vetoryl for a while. I wish it would be something simpler than Cushing's. There is a connection between hypothyroidism and Vestibular disease and since Scoop still has the head tilt from when he had it I thought maybe it was that. The vet doesn't think so. The vet is going to do a test that will show if he has a ruptured eardrum. That could be causing the head tilt. The poor little guy has trouble keeping his balance. I don't know if it's the arthritis in his front legs, the head tilt, he's losing his sight from cataracts, the muscle wasting or all the above.
Thanks for the suggestion. They are always appreciated.

Vicki

Quote:

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ALK. PHOSPHATASE - 1712, 10-150 U/L
ALT(SGPT) - 392, 5-107 U/L
AST(SGOT) - 64, 5-55 U/L
GGT- 21, 0-14 U/L

GLUCOSE- 190, 60-125 mg/dl

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Mornin,

What I see are the liver values - the ALK, ALT, AST, and GGT - are ALL elevated. To me that is a clear sign the liver needs to be more closely looked at to be sure there is no primary hepatic disease going on before starting treatment. IF she does have liver disease, this could skew the tests causing false positive and Trilostane (Vetoryl) is not recommended for pups with liver disease so you want to know before you are given Trilo (Vetoryl).

I also see elevated glucose. Did your vet do a urine check to verify this is not diabetes rearing its head?

I really, really, really, really wish I, or someone else here, could explain these results but I don't have the knowledge. :(

How is Scoop doing this morning?

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Hi Leslie and the gang,
Thanks for asking how Scoop is doing today. He had a pretty good day today considering all his problems. Today is Scoop's birthday. "Happy Birthday to my Scoop". He turned 12 today. He had a little something special today and he enjoyed it very much.
I'll have to bring the liver levels up to the vet. You would think she would know about that about the liver. She also saw a spot on his liver when she did the ultra sound.
Scoop has been on Vetoryl for 10 days.
Scoop has had diabetes for 2 years.
My "baby doll" sure has his share of health problems.
Thanks for all your concern.
Vicki

Hi Vicki,

I should have known Scoop was already diabetic. :o I wonder about my mind these days! :p

10 days, huh? Then Scoop will be having an ACTH sometime in the next four days, or should be anyway, so let us know how that goes and what the results are when you get them.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

:D:D Happy 10th Birthday, Scoop!! :D:D

Happy Late Birthday to Scoop! :D

Leslie and Amy-Thank you for the birthday wishes for Scoop!
Leslie-Scoop had his ACTH test today. Will find out results tomorrow. The amount of water he has been drinking has gotten a little better lately but not where it should be but when he comes home after a stay at the vet's he just drinks and drinks. He seems to have finally settled down.
I asked at the vet's today for a copy of my other dog, Raleigh, bloodwork results from March. With all this going on with Scoop I want to keep an eye on Raleigh's levels. What a difference between his and Scoop's.
Vicki

I just heard from the vet. Scoop's dose of Vetoryl must go up to 30 mg a day. His first ACTH test results are:

Pre-6.2
13.5-1 hour
16.7- 2 hour
The vet said normally they only do one post draw but the lab she talked to suggested she do a 1 hour and a 2 hour.

I had a situation over the weekend about the fasting or not before his ACTH on Monday and I couldn't talk to his vet till Monday morning after he would have eaten. I read the advise on the board and also checked Dechra's website. They have under either Q&A of FAQ, don't remember which, that the morning of the test a small amount of food should be given. I also sent an email to Dechra but because it was Saturday I figured I wouldn't hear from them. So Monday morning I gave Scoop about half of his food and half his amount of insulin. The vet called me at 8:30 and I explained everything to her. She said she did not want me to fast him so she thought what I did was OK. She called the lab they deal with and they said that was fine what I gave him. At 9:30 that morning I got a call from a registered vet tech from Dechra and said she wanted to get a hold of me seeing he was scheduled for his test that morning. She said what they suggest is to give about 1/4 amount of normal food but she said what I did was fine. So Dechra, the vet and the lab all agreed what I gave him was OK. The vet said the lab told her they should be coming out with some paper or something for the vets about the non-fasting thing. The lady at Dechra was so nice and took time to talk to me. Scoop now has a case number in case I have to get in touch with them again.

Scoop has done a lot of trembling today so far. Does anyone have any experience with their babies trembling? The vet also thinks Scoop is starting with that skin problem that's associated with Cushing's. I've heard about it but not sure of the name. I will be looking it up later. Anyone with experience with that? Have to get ready for work this afternoon. I hate to leave Scoop but have to. At least the day he will get his increased dose I will be home. So nervous about the increase but his numbers aren't good so hope it helps. I'm just so afraid with his diabetes and Cushing's. The vet did a BG spot check to make sure it wasn't low because of the Vetoryl. It was pretty high but there were a lot of things going on that could have contributed to it. I'm so scared my Scoop has too many problems working against him. He is such a good boy and doesn't deseve this.
Love my Scoop and my Raleigh!
Sorry this is so long. Gotta go.
Thanks for any help, input, suggestions from anyone.
Vicki

Hi-hope everyone had a good day.
ACTH:
Pre:6.2
Post 1 hour: 13.5
Post 2 hour: 16.7
Scoop's vet said they like to see the numbers below 9. I'm assuming she was referring to the post results. Is that the number that all vets go by? Don't know too much about the Acth test and the results. Also, does anyone know what the high end dose for Vetoryl is for 18 lbs? One more thing. Scoop's water consumption has gone down a little recently but today it was down to 21oz. Maybe just one good day? The vet told me if he drinks more than 28oz that's too much. So it's good it is lower but something just bugs me. Could it mean that his cortisol level could have dropped since he had his ACTH done on Monday? If so, could there be a problem with increasing his Vetoryl from 20mg to 30mg. The increase will be taking place on Friday.
Thanks for any info anyone can give me. Every change I see just makes me think and worry! Now with the possibility of the calcinosis cutis, something else to worry about. I've read some posts on here about it. Sounds like it isn't easily taken care of but I guess that figures because Cushing's isn't easy.
Thanks again for any help or info anyone gave give me.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Vicki:
Hello to you, and hope Scoop does well on the new dose. I am new on here too , but can tell you Tipper weighs a little shy of 17 lbs and she takes 10mg of Vetoryl in the morning, and 10mg at night. Dechra told me this was the correct dose for her. We started her out at only 10mg a day, as I wanted to go slowly because Tipper can have bad reactions to things. The split dose has definetly helped curtail her symptoms that would return in the evening. My vet is waiting for the vet from Dechra to call back about the tremors, and twitching she is doing at night. He went straight to the vet as the people answering the calls there seem to be putting out conflicting information about this. This disease is awful, and we need to get together to get some funding and research done on it, as it is affecting many animals. I would never have thought this many animals could be suffering from this disease. I wish you and Scoop the best.

Hi Tipper's Mom,
Thanks. I'm so nervous about the increase. I agree with you. This disease is awful. I would have never thought so many pups would be so sick from it. It's so heartbreaking. I'm crying now while typing. My Scoop is laying here by me and is trembling. Sometimes he trembles so much sometimes and sometimes it's just a little. His is mostly during the day. I don't see much of it in the evening or at night. His is on a morning only dose. The vet and I talked about splitting his dose because I read diabetic dogs are better with a split dose but we haven't done it yet. Now I have 30mg pills and you can't split them. I would be VERY interested in hearing what your vet finds out from the Dechra vet about the trembling. Please let us know when you hear anything. My vet thinks Scoop might have something else going on besides Cushing's and diabetes so maybe that could be contributing to the trembling. She told me trembling is not a side affect. Sure wish I had some answers. It is so hard to not know what is going on. I spoke to a registered vet tech from Dechra and mentioned the trembling. She told me they don't know for sure if the trembling is related to Vetoryl but they do mention it as a possible side affect. I think that's how she put. No definite answer. So please let us know what you find out.
Thanks for the well wishes. I wish the same for you and Tipper, all the best. The idea about funding for research is a great idea. I hope someday it can be cured and all the pups and parents don't have to deal with it.
Love and hugs to you and everyone out there.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Hi Vicki,

I believe we had another member recently who spoke to a rep at Dechra who told her that muscle tic are not a side effect of Vetoryl. It most certainly is. See my reponse below:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lulusmom

I'm very surprised that the rep you spoke with at Dechra said it isn't the drug. Muscle tremors are absolutely a side effect of Vetoryl so the rep is either ignorant of the drug he's supposed know about or he is splitting hairs and defining muscle tics and tremors as two different involuntary muscle movement. We have had many members report that their dogs have muscle tremors/tics, primarily when they are at rest.

---

Thanks lulusmom.
It's so hard to watch them tremble like that. I put my hand on him and just feel his body shaking. It's terrible.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scoora

Don't know too much about the Acth test and the results.

---

The ACTH stimulation test is a simple and safe screening test in the diagnostic evaluation of dogs with hyperadrenocorticism (Cushing's syndrome). It's also used to monitor dogs on medical therapy (e.g., Lysodren, Trilostane, etc.). Simply put, it's a test of adrenal gland reserve; it checks how the adrenal glands respond to a certain hormone. This hormone is called adrenocorticotrophic hormone, also known as ACTH. ACTH is made in the pituitary gland (pea-sized structure located at the base of the brain) and travels through the bloodstream to the adrenal glands (small paired glands buried in fat in the front of each kidney).


An ACTH stim test contains synthetic forms of ACTH (Adrenocorticotrophic Hormone) such as Cortrosyn, ACTHAR gel, or another agent called Synacthen. ACTH and the synthetic forms of ACTH stimulate the adrenal glands to release Cortisone.

In an ACTH stim test a sample of blood is taken from an animal (the "pre-level"); then the animal is injected with a small amount of the synthetic form of ACTH to stimulate the adrenal glands to produce Cortisol.


A second blood test is taken a hour later (the "post-level") to measure the change in circulating cortisol. The results of the two blood tests are then compared.

With Lysodren, ideally, one wants the pre and post number between 1-5 ug/dl. With Trilostane, goal of therapy is having pre and post between 1.45-5.4 ug/dl and a post as high as 9.1 ug/dl as long as clinical symptoms are controlled.

Hope that helps :)

Love and hugs,
Lori

Someone here once described the ACTH like this - imagine a sponge full of water being squeezed to see how much water was in there. This is what the ACTH is doing with the adrenals - not squeezing them literally but causing them to empty as much cortisol as they can. The cortisol flowing in the bloodstream is measured before the stim agent it given (the first or pre number) then measured again after the stim agent has made the adrenals empty (the last or post number). The post number is the most important and the one we want to see within those ranges Lori gave.

You're doing good! Keep asking questions! :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

How long was your dog on the meds before the trembling started? I am wondering when I will start seeing that or if. :(

I know that has to be hard to see. I hope it is a symptom that will go away for your sweet pup.

I just wanted to stop by to add a couple of thoughts since my own Cushpup was one who also suffered from weird tremoring episodes. Although I do not believe he was cold or in pain, it looked as though he was shivering across his shoulders. It happened most often when he was resting or even asleep.

In our case, I first noticed the tremors a couple of weeks prior to his Cushing's diagnosis. He was treated several years ago when the protocol called for higher doses of trilostane, and he was indeed started off on a very hefty dose. The tremoring became much more frequent and obvious shortly after starting on the trilo. It remained for a couple of months, but then stopped altogether.

We were never sure as to the cause. As the Dechra rep stated, tremoring is now listed as a possible side effect to treatment. However, I think her answer is correct in that nobody knows whether it is actually caused by the drug itself or whether it is related to some as-yet-unknown mechanism associated with the Cushing's syndrome.

Since my own dog started the tremoring prior to the trilo, I can't solely blame the drug. However, the tremors did worsen right after he started on it. FWIW, his cortisol level was sky-high per his diagnostic ACTH test, and I have always speculated that the tremoring was related to the cortisol level itself -- maybe rapid changes in either direction. I've especially thought this might be true because we have had Lysodren parents report the same thing.

Anyway, I don't think the mechanism is yet understood either by Dechra or anybody else. But I just wanted you to know that other members have reported the same types of experiences.

Marianne

Lori and Leslie-Wow.Thank you for all that great info. It sure helps me to understand what the ACTH test is about.

Amy-Thank you. I too hope it is a symptom that will go away. Scoop had a little bit of trembling in his back legs before he started the Vetoryl. I thought it might have something to do with his muscle loss. Scoop lost quite a bit of muscle but what do I know. After starting Vetoryl he has a lot more trembling and it is now in the front and the back.

Marianne-That sounds so much like Scoop but his started in his back legs but now has trembling in front and back legs. I have only seen it once while he was standing. All the rest of the time he is either sleeping or resting. Scoop's happens during the day. I don't see it at night. Vetoryl only stays in the body, what, 8 or 12 hours? So like you said, Marianne, maybe at night the cortisol has leveled off and during the day it is going down or rising back up. That's very interesting.

Thank you everyone for all the great information and for all the help.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Vicki: are you testing Scoop's blood sugar? Jenny had some serious low blood sugar incidents before I started testing and the only symptom was back leg trembling. I thought it was the Cushings, took her in and her blood sugar was 40 :eek:.

As his cortisol goes down you'll need less insulin. Just a thought. hang in there. Judi

Judi-WOW! 40 That's scary. Scoop has had some spot BG checks since he started on Vetoryl. His have been pretty high. My husband and I tried to test Scoop at home after he was first diagnosed 2 years ago with diabetes. We were not successful. We tried and tried. I sure wish we could do it at home. Then I could check it more often but I have to take him to the vet's to get it checked. Sometimes they use our meter and then it doesn't cost so much. He had a spot check when he had his ACTH done and it was high. Scoop's vet went to a conference in Atlantic City this past week. She spoke to an endocrinologist from California and talked to him about Scoop. He suggested that Scoop's insulin be cut in half. He's been getting 10 units and he said to cut it to 5 units. She told him he has been testing high but he said he would recommend to cut it. I don't understand why you would cut the insulin if his sugar isn't low. It really makes me nervous but we are going to try it starting Monday morning and do a spot check on Wednesday.
Thanks for the suggestion Judi.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

I have never understood it very well but over on the diabetes forum they talk about Somagyi rebound

http://diabetes.about.com/od/glossar.../g/somogyi.htm

basically, I think if a dog is getting too much insulin, their body overreacts causing huge highs and huge lows. Since Scoop has been a stinker about testing you could be missing the lows.

Just a guess but this may be what your vet is looking for.

Have they done some curves? did you post them on the diabetes forum?

I really struggled getting Jenny to cooperate for home blood testing. It was a 3 week long bloody battle. Now? She is much better for her testing than she is for her shot. So, if you ever get your courage up and want to try again, I recommend it.

Please keep us posted! hugs, Judi

Hi Vicki,

Did you register at the diabetes site? They will be able to help you most with this situation so I would sure be talking to them before starting the half-dose. We have a saying around here - Listen to your gut because no one knows YOUR baby like YOU. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Judi and Leslie-Thanks so much. It is so great to be able to talk to others who have experience and knowledge about all this. There is so much going on with Scoop, it is so scary. I trust Scoop's vet and the specialist she talked to seemed to impress her. When we started this I told her if she's not comfortable with this, then she should refer Scoop to a specialist. She said she would if she feels uncomfortable with things.

Judi-I have never heard of Somagyi rebound. I will be checking it out when I am done here. What you said makes sense to me. A curve was done Aug. 30. The vet wanted to make sure his diabetes wasn't causing his problems before he got tested for Cushing's. She was happy with the curve. What you said has me thinking. Up till now there wasn't much reason to worry about testing at home. He was doing so good with his diabetes. He is such a good boy about getting his shot but I don't think he will put up with the testing. Where do you prick Jenny at to get the sample? We were shown to do it in the ear but at home we couldn't get any blood from there so I had watched videos about doing it on the inside lip. Scoop did not like that at all. He even snapped but did not bite at my husband. I took him to the vet's and she had a hard time with it too. Since Scoop has been sick he doesn't like when I go in his mouth. So it would be very difficult to get blood. It would probably be a good idea to do another curve. I feel so bad to have to leave Scoop at the vet's all day. He gets so nervous when we are on the way to the vet's. I had to take him on Saturday. He has a nasty sore under his front "underarm". He shook so much in the car.

Leslie-Yes, I did register at the diabetes site. I just seem to spend my time here. I feel like I have so much to learn about Cushing's but looks like there are things to learn over there too.

The vet told me when we started with the Cushing's meds that this will not be easy with dealing with both plus Scoop has a head tilt yet from Vestibular Disease. The vet's been trying to find out if he has a ruptured eardrum. She talked to a neurologist about the possibility the pit tumor could be causing the head tilt. His cataracts from the diabetes are bad. We have to watch when we take him out, he has trouble with steps and the uneven yard. He's good in the house but he walks with his head tilted. Sorry to go on and on but it is so hard to see Scoop now compared to the beginning of July before all his problems started. I love him so much and it hurts so much to see what has happened to him.

Thanks so much for listening and all your help and suggestions.
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

personally, I think the fact that your vet wants to back off the insulin to see if Scoop is rebounding is a really positive sign that your vet is open minded and has experience with diabetes.

So many vets just keep increasing the dose and overshoot the mark, causing problems for the dog.

I took Jenny to the vet twice and the vet tech and I couldn't get blood from her anywhere. Her carpal pad, her ear. She is really good at the vet but was a first class jerk about testing. The vet tech could not believe that was "sweet" Jenny LOL

so, we do the upper lip by the canine teeth. She hated it at first and would fight kick, it was awful. I started practice testing her. I did everything except actually poke her with the lancet. And I gave her a tiny piece of chicken jerky only after her test which she adored so bribery was a key factor.

Jenny was always good about her shot but a few months ago she decided she hates the shot. So now she is an angel for the lip test and we've been using the magic jerky on the shot (it's working, thank goodness for food treats)

Vet techs don't test the way we do at home, that is why they can't help us as much as we'd like. Some people test on the upper back right next to the tail, and some people warm the ear up and get some blood that way.

Poor Scoop, I'm sorry he is so stressed. Hang in there. I was an emotional wreck last year and now I've stepped back and just focus on whether Jenny is happy and wants to play. If she is, I"m good. Her cortisol is too low and her blood sugar can be too high but she is happy and I'm doing the best I can.

So are you. hugs, Judi

I just want to add that I am not one of the experienced diabetes people good at analyzing curves and insulin needs. I just know what has and hasn't worked for my Jenny. If you have time come on back to the K9 diabetes forum. Did you post his last curve?

Judi- I was just on the diabetes site and wrote to some length but forgot to post his curve. I will try to remember to do that tomorrow night. I think he should have another curve done but maybe the vet will suggest it if she sees that Scoop is able to stay at the lower dose. I had forgotten she upped his dose from 9-10 2x a day back over the summer. What you said about the vet wanting to back off the insulin makes me feel better. That is a good point.
Thank you for telling me about Jenny. It does take some work. We did try and not just once. When Scoop was first diagnosed the tech was able to get blood from his ear when she showed us but when we tried it we couldn't get blood. We tried the carpal pad and that didn't work then the upper lip. Scoop hated that! I took him to the vet's and the vet herself had trouble getting it like we would. So we gave up.

Sounds like you are doing a great job with Jenny. I appreciate all your thoughts and help. Just hearing about others and what you think really helps.

Scoop has other problems and he is not the same dog he was in the beginning of the summer but he still has his "happy tail" and loves his ears and belly rubbed and gets excited when someone comes home and will lick his toys and he loves to eat and get treats and he is loved sooooo much. Thanks again.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Isn't it wonderful to have that happy tail happening. It's always such a joy when you know that they are going through so much to see them happy and playing.

Sharlene

Sharlene-It sure is a wonderful thing to see!

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Is anyone dealing with calcinosis cutis right now? A couple of weeks ago Soop's vet said she thought he was starting with it at the top of his back. I have seen a change in his skin in that area. At first the area had lost hair and the skin was dark. It looked a lot like the area on his tail that has looked like that for a couple of years. Then the area started to look like it had bumps on the skin. Today something happened that bothers me. Scoop has a sore under his left front "underarm" area. I took him to the vet on Saturday and the vet(not his regular one) gave him an antibiotic shot and said to use a t-shirt when taking him out. Today Scoop went to see his regular vet for a spot BG check and she looked at the sore spot. She put something on it and then wrapped it. The wrap went across his back and when we got home after making another stop first, I noticed his calcinosis cutis spot sticking out of the top of the wrap. There is a big red sore spot in the middle of it. The wrap must have rubbed it open. I have been very careful with that area. Maybe it would have happened anyway, I don't know but I am upset because from what I've read calcinosis cutis is impossible to treat. I read some of the posts from last year and earlier this year but I haven't seen anything recent. I would appreciate any advise anyone has on calcinosis cutis. Seems like they have to suffer with it and hopefully months down the road it might get better. I'm so worried about my Scoop. It seems like nothing is going right for him.
Thanks for any help.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Hi Vicki,

Here are some links about DMSO, which can be used to treat calcinosis cutis. I thought I had some links about CC itself but don't seem to find them. If you will use the "search" feature in the upper white bar you can enter "calcinosis cutis" and find threads about this condition and how others approached treatment. It seems we have some current members dealing with this now.

CC is pretty much a dead give away for Cushing's - dogs just don't get CC unless they have Cushing's. A dermatologist is the very best thing you can do for Scoop if this is what he is developing.

Keep in touch and let us know how he is doing.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

http://www.dmso.org/

http://www.dmso.org/articles/information/muir.htm

http://www.herpes-coldsores.com/dmso.pdf

http://www.bevanpotter.com/DMSO_bp.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1124535

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1249191

http://books.google.com/books?id=CvH...0cutis&f=false

Hi Vicki,

If your vet has not confirmed a calcinosis cutis diagnosis by way of appropriate testing, that should be done so that you know exactly what you are dealing with. If it's not CC, treatment can be totally different. We have a few members who have dealt with it, including one of our moderators, Angela. I am hoping she chimes in to share her experience with the diagnostic process and treatment. She'll tell you that it's a bugger to get the upper hand but it can be done.

Glynda

Leslie-Thanks for the information. I will be sure to check out the links.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Hi Glynda-Thanks. No she did not test it. She'll probably say she is sure that's what it is. Now that there is a sore there it sure is nasty looking. I have read it is a bugger but everything about Cushing's is just terrible.

Scoop's vet shared some notes with me that she took at a conference she went to. It says 90,000-100,000 new cases of PDH diagnosed per year. That is unbelievable.

I look forward to what Angela has to say. I've read some about this but not a whole lot. Scoop sure didn't need another problem on top of all his others. It scares me, everything just scares me so much.

Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

Hi,
Scoop's vet wants to start him on Hills W/D food to help with his diabetes. Does anyone else feed this food to their CushPups? Does anyone know about this food in relation to the needs for dogs with Cushing's. The W/D is supposed to be high in fiber which is supposed to help diabetes. Since Scoop has lost weight (muscle mass) I don't want to see him lose more weight cause the W/D is also for weight control. I heard CushPups should have low carb, high protein in their diets. I just read something that suggests W/D is high in carbs. Sometimes things get so confusing I could just scream. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Vicki-Scoop and Raleigh's mom

MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about diet into Scoop’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts on a pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed.