Jasper (12 yr old Mini Schnauzer) is now at peace

Hello,

I am a new member. My 8 yr old Min Schnauzer, Jasper, was diagnosed with Cushings on 6/22/12. He has the pituitary dependent type.

Let me say that I feel I have a very good vet who has experience treating dogs with Cushings, and reports having good success. We started Lysodren on 7/5. Jasper seemed to be tolerating it well, (none of the warning signs were apparent). We decided to do the ACTH stim test after he completed 5 days of treatment. He had the test on 7/11 and I got the results late in the day on Friday 7/13. The test
showed that he was too suppressed, cortisol levels were at the very low end of normal & one value was one point below normal. The Lysodren is on hold now to allow the adrenal tissue to regrow before we consider maintenance. This is what I understand at this time. I will be talking to my vet after the weekend. Jasper seems to be feeling ok currently. This has been quite stressful, especially since it is the weekend.

I found this forum right around the time we started the Lysodren, and have done a lot of reading, both from the resources and posts. Everything I have read has been so helpful.

I will be asking my vet, but I am wondering if anyone else has experienced their dog's cortisol levels going way too low with the Lysodren even though no warning signs were apparent?

I watched Jasper like a hawk once the med was started for any little change. The only thing I think he showed was some decrease in drinking, but it wasn't real dramatic. I am quite worried about the low cortisol level, even though he seems to be feeling ok now. Everything I have read about this happening scares me.

I would be most appreciative of any feedback anyone can provide. I am really trying hard to not panic over all of this, but am feeling very overwhelmed with everything.

Tina

Hi Tina!

Before I forget - please be sure to check and reply to the email sent to you so that future posts automatically show up.

Glad you found us - if you have read here you know we'll ask questions so we get up to speed.

First thing that comes to my mind is that perhaps the dosage is on the high side - to be loaded in 5 days.

Please tell us your dog's weight and the dose of lysodren you gave daily during the loading period.

Also please type out the two numbers from the acth test. If you don't have them , call and get them. You will need to start a file and keep them for future reference - comes in very handy. Note that a normal dog will have cortisol (2nd number on the test ) of 17 or higher. Cush dogs are ''loaded'' with lysodren with the goal of having the 2nd number be between a 1 and a 5.

IMPORTANT: Sometimes the lab messes up and is thinking they are testing a non cush dog. So an 8 would be too low for a normal dog but too high for a cush dog if you are following me. That is an example of why you must get the test results. :D

Was an acth test done before starting lysodren? If so, those numbers are helpful also.

OK... now I have to ask, are you giving your dog prednisone? It is often given when cortisol goes too low because it helps them feel better. Is your dog lethargic? Any diarrhea or vomiting? (signs of low cortisol)

You said the only change was a slight change in water consumption. FYI dogs all react differently so you must look for slight changes and assume. I am very glad you did the test at 5 days (which is actually faster than normal).

Tell us your dog's story , the symptoms, the whole saga. I know it is overwhelming at first but that is why we are here. :p You are no longer alone on this journey. Sorry I just realized you did tell us your baby's name is Jasper.

The key to using lysodren is a vet with experience, and an owner that gets involved and up to speed because you are your dog's voice. Lysodren is a wonderful med (I used it) that can make your dog well again - you just have to use it in the right dosage.

I see you are no longer giving lysodren. Hard to say how long you will need to wait. Better safe than sorry though.

Take care and again, welcome. Kim

Hi Kim,

Thanks so much for the quick reply and warm welcome.

I will try to answer your questions, but will tell Jasper's story on a later post. As you know, it is a little involved.

I did reply earlier to the email that was sent, just FYI.

Jasper weighs 25 lbs. The dose of the Lysodren was 250 mg twice a day.

The two numbers on the ACTH test were 15 and 14. My vet's message said that ideal is 50 to 100, and normal is 15 to 100. I understand what you are saying about the lab results. I am wondering if this lab has different reference ranges?

He did not have an ACTH test before starting the Lysodren. He had tests to rule out diabetes, thyroid problems, liver disease and kidney disease. The Cushings diagnosis was made based on a LDDS test. I'm sorry but I don't have those numbers. I know there was a 4 hr result and an 8 hr result and my vet said it was definitive that he has Cushings.

I have a prescription of prednisone on hand in case he starts not feeling well. So far he is not showing any of the signs of low cortisol. He is eating fine, no vomiting or diarrhea, and energy seems pretty normal. It has been brutally hot here (I am in Nebraska also!), so he has been a little subdued, but this is not a change.

My vet and I decided to do the ACTH test after only 5 days on the med based on the slight change in the drinking. Better safe than sorry is right, and that is always my thought. My vet said it would be at least a week before we consider restarting the Lysodren, and said it may be 10-14 days. I need to ask how that will be determined. I haven't had a chance to talk to her since it has been the weekend. She is experienced with giving Lysodren and said she has had much success.

I will tell more about Jasper in a subsequent post, kind of weary right now! Yes, it is very overwhelming, as you know.

Thank you for your questions and support!

Tina

Hi Tina and welcome to you and Jasper

I believe the unit of measurement your lab uses is nmol and if so, then yes, Jasper's pre and post stimulated cortisol is very low. One of my cushdogs loaded for 7 days and his post cortisol was almost as low as Jasper's and he never showed any sign of loading. He was perfectly fine but I gave him one dose of prednisone anyway just so I could sleep.

Most of us are more familiar with ug/dl unit of measurement so for those who may not know how to read nmol, Jasper's converted pre and post were .5 ug/dl, which is pretty scarey. The conversion for the therapeutic range your vet mentioned would be 1.8 ug/dl to 3.6 ug/dl which is definitely good. I think your vet knows what she's doing.

The weekly maintenance dose is usually equal to the daily loading dose but in Jasper's case, it may be too much for him. Jasper loaded at just under the max recommended dose of 50mg/kg so I think with him loading rather quickly and given the really low cortisol, your vet may drop the maintenance dose down to 25mg/kg, being 250mg per week. Every dog is different and my dog certainly was. His cortisol after loading was .7 so we waited two week to start maintenance. We did another stim two or three weeks later and his post stimulated cortisol was too high. That was five years ago and memory is foggy but as I recall, it was 8 ug/dl. We upped the maintenance dose a bit and that did the trick. Finding the right maintenance dose is a roll of the dice sometimes.

It sounds like you and your vet did a great job, despite the low numbers. A lot of us members have dogs who didn't read the book and sometimes they leave us scratching our heads and thanking God for dodging the bullet.

I'm glad you and Jasper found your way to us. We're here to help in any way we can. By the way, I have a little Maltese named Jasper. He's not cushingoid.

Glynda

Tina, Wow another Nebraskan! Just because I want to be 100% sure... please confirm the units of measure on the acth.

You have never mentioned any sort of an emergency or extreme lethargy and if Jasper's cortisol was as low as .5 we would expect him to be struggling to stand up, on prednisone, and maybe even on IVs. You have never mentioned any of this. I just want to make sure there isn't a lab mess up. I know the number of labs used in this state is very limited and the large majority use Idexx.

You are doing a great job - do you happen to have the ldds test results? Thanks! Kim

Welcome to you & Jasper! Kim & Glynda have given you great advice, so I will try not to repeat. I have used lysodren with 2 pups quite successfully. My first boy had been loading for 8 days, showed no change in appetite or water consumption which I had been measuring on a daily basis. I took him in for an ACTH to see where we were. I get a phone call from the vet the next afternoon asking me if I had checked water yet. I said no, & was told to check water that she would wait. Low & behold, his water consumption had dropped something like 70% overnight. She said that the stim reflected that as his numbers were so low, she told me to give him 5 mg prednisone daily for the next 3 days, then bring him back in for another stim 48 hours after the last dose of pred, so we could determine, if & when maintenance could start. Unfortunately, I don't remember the exact results of the either stim & when we were able to start maintenance as this was something like 13 or 14 years ago. My point is that you absolutely can't determine if Jasper can go to maintenance without doing another ACTH. Some dogs will regenerate their adrenals almost in the blink of an eye, other pups may take months to regenerate, some may not regenerate at all. You just can't tell without the test. Please do not let your vet start maintenance dosing without confirming that Jasper is ready.

Again welcome to both of you!

Debbie

Glynda, Kim, and Debbie - thank you all so much for the information and reassurance. I got teary reading your responses, it is so comforting to know that you all truly understand how I am feeling because you have been there.

I talked to my vet today and have some more information based on your questions.

Kim - The units of measurement on Jasper's ACTH test is nmol, just as Glynda mentioned. My vet said that the blood is overnighted to a lab in Michigan. The results and ranges are as I posted previously.

LDDS results:

Baseline cortisol 390
4 hour 28
8 hour 54

I forgot to ask the units of measurement for this test.

And Kim, you are correct, Jasper has not exhibited any of the critical warning signs of low cortisol and we have not had an emergency. I am very thankful for that. Today my vet reassured me that the cortisol level will not continue to drop while the Lysodren is on hold.

Today she said we will recheck the levels with another ACTH test before we restart the Lysodren for maintenance. I will drop him off for that on 7/25, so that will be 2 weeks since the last test, and since stopping the Lysodren.

My vet said she has consulted with an endocrinologist just to confirm that we are doing everything properly. It sounds like he concurred with my vet's treatment plan. I really appreciate that she talked to the specialist.

That is what I have up to date.

Just a little bit about Jasper - the only sign of Cushings that he has really displayed is increased drinking and urination. I think I first noticed it around the beginning of May. It got really extreme toward the end of the month. He was drinking a ton, and I had a vet appt scheduled for him, but on the night of 5/24 he jumped down off the bed and just started peeing. He couldn't stop, it sounded like a faucet had been opened on the carpet. I grabbed a bath towel from the bathroom to hold under him and he completely soaked it. The look on his face made me cry, he was so embarrassed. He has never had an accident in the house, even when he is sick.

I took him in to the vet urgently the next day, and his urine showed some mild symptoms of a UTI, and of course low specific gravity. We treated him with antibiotics, but when the drinking did not decrease, my vet wanted to do some more tests. He has not had any further accidents in the house.

We did a liver panel, thyroid test, blood glucose, electrolytes, UA, and I'm not sure what else. He had a very elevated alk phos, and elevated LDH. All the other liver values and UA were ok. Diabetes and thyroid were ruled out, as was kidney disease. My vet was then concerned about liver disease so we did a bile acid test, which was normal. That's when she said she was suspecting Cushings, and we began the tests for that.

Jasper has not shown any of the other classic symptoms of Cushings. His appetite has not seemed to increase, no fur loss or pot belly, or leg weakness. I am wondering if maybe we caught it early so that is why he hasn't shown some of those things? He is 25 lbs but is not overweight. He is just big for a min schnauzer.

He is the sweetest and most loving dog, and is such a Mama's boy. I am hopeful that we can get him stabilized and feeling better soon.

Sorry this got so long. Please let me know if you have any more questions or feedback. I am so grateful that I found this forum. Thank you all.

Tina

Tina, Thank you! I just needed that confirmation... I had probably 20 acth tests done between my two dogs and the only time the units were not ug/dl was when we sent it off to the Michigan State lab (it was used because we were getting false positives from Idexx) :D Interesting your vet selected to go there.

Glad you are doing another one prior to resuming maintenance. I agree with whoever it was that said you should lower the maintenance dose! Guess that is an obvious to do but just being cautious.

Kim

I just want to check in real quick. As I posted previously, Jasper will be having the ACTH test re-checked next Wed 7/25 after becoming too suppressed from the Lysodren. Thankfully he has continued to feel ok and has not shown any of the critical signs of low cortisol.

I have been reading so many of the stories posted here and can't begin to express how comforting it is to know that I am not alone in this journey. There are so many kind and caring people here, and everyone's knowledge is amazing. I can't believe how much I have learned.

Thank you to those of you who have given your advice and feedback so far, I am truly grateful. I will be checking in, and will post again when I have Jasper's results and know more of what the plan will be.

This is all still very scary, but I feel so much stronger and so much more prepared to make the right treatment decisions for my precious little boy. All thanks to the help and support I have received here.

Take care,

Tina

Tina, You are so sweet! FYI I found these folks in a panic over 7 yrs ago because I got a diagnosis and very little information. I read and read till my brain was beyond its capacity and realized that my vet was beyond clueless. I live in a town of 25000 people and had just moved here from Omaha. I was used to having more experienced vets and it was the beginning of a journey that continued for many years. If it wasn't for the wonderful friends I met here I would have lost my sanity... We have been in your shoes, totally understand your fears, and you are so right - you are no longer alone. We will do our best to hold your hand.

Kim

Thanks Kim! Yes, I was in quite the panic myself when I found this forum. I was so upset at first, it took me several days to pull it together enough to register and finally post.

I am blessed in that I have a vet who has experience with Cushings and treating with Lysodren. She is very thorough and did a great job explaining everything. (She knows me well, and knows that I would need to know everything and in detail). :) I totally trust her, but it never hurts to educate yourself. And this illness is so complicated, I just needed to read as much as I could. Fortunately what I learned confirmed the information she provided!

It sounds like you moved far from Omaha?

By the way, Your Schnauzers are adorable, of course! I have a 6 month old pup in addition to Jasper. She is quite the handful, especially since all this started with him. Who would have thought...

Tina

Tina, I too was in a panic when my molly was diagnosed. I still have moments, not a great many, but a few. I can't even begin to say how much this forum has helped though. Without it, well, I don't even want to think about it.
My vet will be treating with Trilo. Not sure when, we have another test to go through and then we'll see.
Hang in there!

Hugs,
Sharlene (and Molly muffin)

Hi Everyone,

I want to check in with my baby's latest labwork. Just to recap, Jasper was started on Lysodren 250 mg twice a day on 7/5. After 5 days on the medication, we did the ACTH test which showed he was over suppressed with the baseline cortisol 15 nmol, and 1 hour post 14 nmol. He did not show any of the warning signs of low cortisol. The Lysodren has been on hold for 2 weeks and he had another ACTH test on 7/25 to see where we are at. We got the results late this afternoon.

Cortisol, baseline 192 nmol
Cortisol 1 hr post ACTH 186 nmol

I know you all are more familiar with the ug/dl unit of measure but are able to convert these numbers.

I talked to my vet for quite a while. We talked about maybe giving him the loading dose again for a couple of days. She said the levels are a bit higher than ideal for a Cushings dog (ideal being 50 to 100) but after discussing, said she feels that we should go straight to the maintenance dose of Lysodren since Jasper was so sensitive to the dose during the loading period, and since his symptoms are controlled currently. I felt like this was the best option also.

So he will be getting Lysodren 250 mg twice a week. I asked about the dose since several of you mentioned giving a lower dose since Jasper's levels got so scary low during loading. My vet said we will keep the dose at 250 mg twice a week since his levels are a little higher than ideal now. (His weight is 25.5 lbs).

She said to watch for a return of the excessive drinking and urinating, and of course I will still monitor for any signs of low cortisol. We discussed that if the symptoms increased that would indicate that the med isn't holding the level and we may need to put him back on the loading dose for 2 or 3 days (rather than 5 where he got over suppressed).

The plan now is to recheck the levels with another ACTH test in 4-6 weeks.

So that is where we are at now. I am so hopeful that we can get him stabilized on the meds. That was so scary when his cortisol bottomed out.

A question that I have that I forgot to ask my vet is if it is possible for the cortisol level to decrease at all when the maintenance dose is started, or does that mainly occur with the loading dose?

Please let me know your thoughts about the labwork and our course of action. I am so grateful for all of the support and advice.

Thank you,

Tina

Hi Tina,

A belated welcome to you and Jasper! :)

We are a Lyso household as well but my Squirt was never loaded due to the type of Cushing's she has - Atypical. We went directly to a maintenance dose schedule when she showed signs that her cortisol was rising. Squirt weighs about 15 lbs and is taking 250 mg twice a week - this has controlled her cortisol for a year now. ;) So, yes, it is possible for a maintenance dose to lower and control the cortisol in some cases. Since Jasper did load, his adrenal glands are prepared for the maintenance dose.

What that means is this - the job of loading is to erode a miniscule layer of the outer cortex of the adrenal glands to stop the continual communication between the adrenal, the pituitary and the hypothalamus glands - the glands that dictate when and how much cortisol to release as needed. In Cushing's, this communication goes into overdrive and tells the adrenals to release cortisol all the time, flooding the body. Once the pup is loaded, this communication becomes more normal - the erosion has done its job. Then we wait for a few days for the adrenals to adjust then maintenance is started to maintain the level of erosion the load achieved. The adrenal glands can and do regenerate that eroded layer so that is the job of maintenance - to maintain what the load achieved, not further erode the cortex.

The conversion for the ACTH is - (if my math is correct! :D To convert nmol/L to ug/dl you divide the mmol/L by 27.59 )

6.96 ug/dl
6.74 ug/dl

So the post number, the number that counts, is a tad bit higher than we usually like to see after a load which would be between 1 and 5 ug/dl. Since Jasper did load so quickly and seems to be sensitive to the Lyso, I think you vet is being appropriately cautious. She seems to have a good handle on Cushing's from what I have read so far. And you are doing a superb job of being a diligent mom - the most critical factor in Cushing's. ;)

I am so glad you found us and many of us here understand how you feel. When I arrived here over four years ago, I was a total basketcase. A dear friend here later told me she envisioned a woman with her hair standing on end as if her finger were in a light socket! :D She kindly left out the part about bulging eyeballs and flying slobber! :p:D:p These wonderfully kind and knowledgeable folks took my hand and gently led me along until I could breath again...then they began to teach me - not an easy job, either! :D The more I learned the further the fear moved away from me...and I know that will be the same for you. ;) Never hesitate to ask questions; we will do our best to help you understand, or we will try to learn together if we don't already know. You and Jasper are now family here and this family sticks together through thick and thin!

Keep up the good work and know you and Jasper will never be alone. We will walk this path with you every step of the way.

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Hi Leslie,

Thanks for your feedback and all of the great information!

I restarted Jasper's Lysodren yesterday, 250 mg twice a week. I will be giving it on Sat and Tues. I am hopeful that this will control his cortisol level and even lower it a little bit since his post level was a bit higher than ideal.

I have been reading a lot of the other threads and it seems that it can pretty much be a roller coaster getting the right maintenance dose on board. Based on Jasper's most recent levels, I am a little scared that we will have to go through the loading process again, but will need to wait and see how he does with the current treatment plan. I am hoping for the best.

I am so thankful that I found this forum. I feel like I have a whole new set of friends who are just like me. All who love and care for their dogs as children. I do not have human children, so my pups are it for me. A lot of people, no matter how well meaning, do not understand that.

Did you happen to watch the Olympics opening ceremony? The Queen's Corgis were the highlight for me. They were just precious. :p

Take care,

Tina

Hi Tina,

You are doing a great job with Jasper and I am sure ya'll will do just fine getting his cortisol controlled. You have that most critical factor - our diligence - down pat. ;) Plus you are reading and educating yourself on this condition our babies are plagued with and that will carry you both a very long way.

Any time you are nervous or see something you don't quite understand, ask! Trust me, you cannot ask any dumb questions - that's MY job! :p Well, that and being the Queen of Guilt and Panic! :p:D:p I panic really, really good, too. ;)

I loved the opening ceremony! When the Queen (the real one! :D) made her entrance, I fell head over heels in love with the lady. What a grand sense of humor for the leader of a world superpower to display to the whole planet! What a class act! In my opinion, the Brits have done and are doing a great job with the Games. The US has got to get busy, tho! China is taking all the metal and we just can't have that! :D

Keep in touch and remember you are never alone.
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

Tina, you hit the nail on the head, some peeps don't get just how into our animals we are. I told my husband the other day I know more about molly's medical issues than probably my own. She certainly gets more testing done than I do. LOL

I'm enjoying the games when I get a chance to catch them, which isn't as often as i'd like.

Leslie official panic persona of the forum? *wink

Hugs,
Sharlene

Hi Everyone,

Leslie and Sharlene, thanks so much for your feedback and support. Jasper seems to be doing ok since we restarted the Lysodren, but it has only been a week. So far so good I guess.

I have been reading many other threads and see that several folks have their pups on milk thistle and/ or Sam-e. I have done a little bit of reading about them, but need to do more. I am wondering if I should ask my vet about starting Jasper on one or both.

His last liver panel showed an alk phos of 1127 (ref range < 95), and LDH of 564 (ref range < 175). The other values were within normal limits. I don't know if the milk thistle or Sam-e would help decrease these levels or not. I am also wondering if he should be started on them to try to prevent any adverse effects on his liver that could occur from the Lysodren. I am really worrying about that.

Thanks for any advice anyone can provide. I really don't know how I would be getting along if I hadn't found this forum. Most importantly, I feel so much better equipped to provide and advocate for the best and safest possible treatment plan for my precious little guy.

Hugs,

Tina and Jasper

Hi Tina! Just want to put your mind at ease... Lysodren doesn't hurt the liver. It indirectly helps it. The liver issue is caused by the cushings. When you reduce the cortisol generated by cushings using lysodren those enzymes will go down. But please know that cush dogs will have elevated liver enzymes forever. That is why alot of us use milk thistle. You can actually get with SAME in it and save yourself a pill. There is no scientific proof it helps.. I can only tell you that my Haley had levels of 2000 that went down to 1200 after using lysodren... but after using the milk thistle they went below 800 and I was thrilled. She lived to 16 1/2 yrs - she used lysodren for 4 1/2. Don't fear lysodren. :D Kim

Hi Kim! Thanks for responding about the Lysodren. I was thinking I had read somewhere that it was hard on the liver and could cause damage, but I could very well be mixed up. I have pretty much been spending every fee moment reading and educating myself about this illness and all that it involves. My brain is on overload, but I feel so driven to keep reading.

Thanks for sharing how long Haley was on Lysodren, that is so good to hear. And how wonderful that she lived to 16 1/2!! You obviously took such good care of her.

Did you happen to read back in my thread about the results of Jasper's most recent ACTH test and the current plan? (It is in my 7/27 post). I would be interested to know what your thoughts are about going directly to the maintenance dose even though the cortisol levels were a bit higher than ideal. Leslie provided a lot of good information that was encouraging. I am hoping we are on the right track. Thanks for the reassurance about Lysodren. I am still a little nervous about it, but I am much more scared about all of the effects that high cortisol levels would have on Jasper's precious little body.

Hugs,

Tina

I went back and read and that is a tad high but it's Ok to try maintenance since Jasper went low so fast - might actually lower a bit ... just keep watching for signs of either cush symptoms returning or diarrhea/vomiting (the opposite). I think I'd have the acth test closer to 4 weeks than 6 weeks just because that way you will know if this approach is working and if it isn't you can go back to loading more quickly.

Without a doubt the loading phase is the hardest part of the journey. Once that happened (Haley took FOREVER as in over 2 months of daily dosing) we were on cruise control for the rest of her life. It was really a breeze. So the disease isn't bad once you can get the symptoms under control with the right dose.

Do keep us posted and keep on asking questions. Kim

Thanks Kim. Yes, I had already decided that I want to re-check the levels at 4 weeks rather than 6 for the reason that you mentioned. I feel like maybe I am getting smarter about all of this with everyone's help! :rolleyes:

Tina and Jasper

Hi Everyone,

I just want to check in since it has been a while since I last posted. Jasper seems to be doing ok for the most part with the Lysodren at 250 mg twice a week. It will be 3 weeks on Saturday since the med was restarted. I have noticed in the last few days that he seems to be drinking a bit more than when his cortisol was bottomed out, but it's not like how it was before we started the medication. I have talked to my vet about this since his last ACTH test result was a bit higher than the ideal range. She said she recommends that we continue with the twice a week maintenance dose and repeat the ACTH test at 4 weeks like we originally planned, unless his drinking increases significantly, then we will check it sooner. Right now the plan is to recheck the last week of August. She said that we may need to do the loading dose for a few days again depending on the test results. So we are in a holding pattern at the moment.

I have literally spent hours reading other peoples threads, and their baby's stories. I have shed many tears both out of sadness and joy. I have cried along with many of you when the news has been not so good, and rejoiced with relief when there has been a positive test result, or when a sweet pup turns a corner or rallies and shows improvement.

And I have learned an incredible amount from the responses and advice provided by the administrators, moderators, forum hosts and other amazing people on this site. Thank you Leslie, Kim, Glynda, Debbie, Marianne, Sharlene, Addy, Sonja, and others. While I know you all haven't posted directly to me on my thread, I have been following along on many other threads.

I need to say that I have never seen a more supportive, compassionate, kind, or caring group of people in my life. So many times I have read where advice and support has been given while you yourselves are dealing immediately with your own pup's difficult issues. How unselfish. I hope one day to have enough knowledge and experience to be able to help others going through this and dealing with this terrible illness.

I feel that it was a blessing when I found this site and all of you. Out of utter devastation came hope, and the relief and comfort of knowing that I am not alone.

Many hugs to all of you and your sweet pups,

Tina

Tina, Great to hear from you. Sounds like you have a plan. If you have to do a mini load it won't be the end of the world. I would decrease the dosage though. We'll deal with that should it happen.

Reading others threads is the best way to get up to speed on this complicated disease. Yes it can be hard to read the sad stories but it truly is a remarkable group and we are here thru thick and thin no doubt about it.

Your thanks are appreciated - and I hope you do stick around and help others! We can joke and laugh and get off topic at times too. I came here just like you did - scared to death. I stayed for the same reason you mentioned.... it is a wonderful resource. I just wish I could find a group/forum this wonderful for human health issues! :D

Keep us posted! Kim

Hi Tina!!! That is really great to hear that jasper is maintaining. Even holding phase can be so calming to the nerves compared to what you go through to even reach that part. Hopefully anything future will only be minor adjustments with no big bumps.

It is reading others people threads and the advice I have received here that has given me so much hope. It truly is an awesome bunch. I check on this forum more than anywhere else on the net these days and that's saying alot!!! LOL

Hugs and belly rubs for Jasper,

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

Hi Kim! Yes, will definitely keep everyone posted. And I think we would be hard pressed to find a group as fine as this for human health issues, that's for sure.

I forgot to mention that Jasper's little sister will be getting spayed in the morning. I am starting to get a little nervous, always worry a bit any time anesthesia is involved. She was originally scheduled for surgery mid July, but rescheduled when all this started going on with my boy.

So if everyone could keep her in their thoughts tomorrow, I would be grateful.

Thanks, and hugs,

Tina

Of course we'll send all kinds of positive thoughts for Jaspers little sister. What is her name? Jaspers family, his sister is family, you are family! :)

Sharlene

Hi Sharlene!

Thanks so much for the support and positive thoughts, as always. Her name is Shelby, silly me - I forgot to mention that! She is a Min Schnauzer also, 7 1/2 months. A little hooligan, I might add. :p

How is little Molly doing? She is just adorable in your avatar photo.

Tina

Good luck to Shelby today. What a cute name. :)

Molly's doing a-okay. She doesn't have a clue it seems that anything is "off". Thanks we think she is adorable but you know prejudice and all that. :p

Hugs Sharlene

Thanks for the update on Jasper, and we will definitely be beaming healing thoughts to sweet Shelby tomorrow!

Thanks, also, so very much for your kind words about our forum. It means the world to hear that you have felt welcomed and supported, and it is so kind of you to take the time to speak about your thoughts and experiences. It is true that there can be discouraging times for us all, when pups or their parents have setbacks. And so your positive words are a huge morale boost and are so greatly appreciated!!!

Thank you so much, and definitely keep us updated about Shelby's surgery tomorrow, OK?

Sending many healing hugs your way,
Marianne

Hope things went well with Shelby today!

hugs,
Sharlene

Hi Marianne and Sharlene,

Thanks so much for keeping my little Shelby in your thoughts today. I got back from visiting her a little while ago. She was still pretty out of it, but I think she knew it was me. I got to talk to the surgeon and she said everything went fine, so that is a big relief. I can bring her home tomorrow afternoon. So Jasper and I are having a "Mother and Son night", LOL. ;)

Tina

Hi Tina,

SO good to hear that Jasper is doing well on the treatment so far and hope you see more and more improvements as the days pass! :)

I understand how you felt about the spay for Shelby. My little Trinket was spayed this summer and I was absolutely terrified because she'd had trouble waking up once before. But she'd had two eye surgeries really close together when that happened. She came through with flying colors....can't say the same for her mom, tho. :o:p I'm glad Shelby will be coming home today!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

My girl Ella got spayed last Friday at the ripe old age of 8 years. I've desided to put tank tops on her instead of doing the e coller! She looks so cute! Note to self...women's size small is perfect for a 30 lb cocker spaniel! Hope Shelby heals quickly!

glad everything went well with Shelby's surgery. Now for a nice long weekend of relaxation. (crossing fingers)

hugs,
Sharlene

Thanks everyone for your good wishes for Shelby! That was a great idea about using the t-shirt to keep her from messing with the sutures. I tried a little doggie shirt, but she manages to scooch it up and still lick the incision. Ugh! She is very crafty unfortunately. So the e collar is back on.

I really don't like it mainly because Jasper seems to be afraid of it. Any time she comes toward him, he kind of cowers and moves away from her as fast as he can. And he gets nervous in general any time she is on the move. He is such a sensitive little boy. But I don't have a choice, it has to stay on her.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend.

Hugs,

Tina

Hope you are surviving the e-collar. Poor Jasper. I'd be terrified too if some strange looking thing with Shelby's head sticking out of it was coming straight at me too! :p:p:p

Hope the weekend has been great.

Hugs,
Sharlene

Hi Everyone,

Jasper has been on the maintenance dose of Lysodren 250 mg twice a week for 4 weeks. He gets the med on Tues and Sat. He has seemed to be doing pretty good, and we had his follow up ACTH stim test scheduled for Wed 8/29. Last Saturday 8/18 when eating, he briefly walked away from the food, but came right back and continued eating until his food was gone. I monitored very closely and there was nothing else unusual all last week, he ate fine. This was the first time anything like this had happened, even when he was getting the loading dose and his cortisol went way too low, he did not show any change in his appetite.

Yesterday morning, he didn't want to eat, walked away from the bowl when I put it down and went into the other room. I coaxed him to eat a little bit here and there out of my hand, but even that was difficult. After about an hour and a half of hand feeding him off and on, I finally got him to finish what was left in the bowl by crumbling a treat in with the food. Last night he ate all his food, although he ate slower than usual.

This morning he started eating right away but about halfway through he walked away again. He resumed eating with encouragement and did finish, but slower than usual.

This morning I left a message for my vet right away. She called back late this afternoon and first said we should do the ACTH test tomorrow instead of Wednesday, and hold the Lysodren immediately. She said she also wanted to check his electrolytes, and after thinking about it, asked if I could bring him in yet today. I brought him to the hospital urgently, he had the electrolytes drawn and I left him there to get the ACTH test done also. She told me after we got home to give him a dose of the prednisone I have on hand, half a pill which is 2.5 mg. (his weight was 26 lbs tonight).

We got home about 2 1/2 hrs ago. Jasper again did not want to eat. I hand fed him a few bites and gave him the prednisone, he got it about 2 hrs ago. He has been mostly sleeping on the couch since that time. Should I expect that he will want to finish his food once it takes effect?

I have been watching him like a hawk all along, I feel like I am scrutinizing every single thing he does, and now feel that maybe I should have called the vet when he hesitated with eating the very first time a week ago and maybe he should have had the ACTH rechecked much sooner. Ugh!

I will post the results of the electrolytes, likely will have those tomorrow; and of course will post the stim test results when I get them. I just feel so upset, I feel like I messed up, even with how close I have been watching everything. I just hope his level hasn't gone critically low again.

Thanks all, and hugs,

Tina and Jasper

Don't feel like you've messed up Tina. Not at all. There are usually a few bumps in the road getting the dosage perfect and going through the loading phase with Lysodren. Has he had running stools or vomiting or anything else off other than the eating?
Lets just see what his test results show. You'll hold off on any more Lysodren until the results come back and then you'll know how he is doing. Some of the others with experience with this medicine will be by to check in and can offer their thoughts.

Hang in there
hugs,
Sharlene

Hi Tina,

You did the right thing by getting Jasper on into the vets instead of waiting for a few days. You done good, Mom! ;)

If his cortisol is too low again, the pred should kick in and you should see improvement in an hour or so. He may need several doses of the pred so don't hesitate to give more as needed. If his appetite is still low, he is mopey, loose stools, or nausea are all signs he still needs the pred.

Some pups are just super sensitive to these drugs and will do better on a much lower dose than is usually given. And there are those pups who simply cannot handle one or the other and a switch is required. But that is something to look into a few days on down the road when we see these test results and see how Jasper is doing.

Please stay in touch and keep a close eye on him the next few days. Use the pred as needed and know we are always right by your side.

You are doing fine, Mom! ;)
Hugs,
Leslie and the gang