new from europe (arthritis and vetoryl?) - Ian, Flynn and Enya have passed

hi, i'm iris from the netherlands [holland/europe] so english is not my first language. i own 2 dogs with cushing. flynn, [4/2003] a male bordercollie and ian [3/2001] a male shetland sheepdog cross. they were both diagnosed within the last 6 months. flynn has all the obvious signs including a pretty rare one ;facialis parese is what my vet calls it. also his thyroid gland doesn't work [low] he takes forthyron pills for that. ian surprised me because i thought he was drinking more because of starting kidney failure. just as his mom did at this age. but his bloodwork showed otherwise. his urine was diluted with a minimal trace of blood. he has no other obvious signs. i hope to learn from you all here. gr iris. p.s. is vetoryl also very expensive in your countries?

Hello and welcome to the forum.

Did they do an ACTH test to determine cushings? If so do you have the numbers?

Vetroyl can be expensive here, but there is also the option of using compounded trilostane which is cheaper than the name brand vetroyl.

I've never heard of facial paralysis being a symptom of cushings. I understand that facial paralysis can be caused by muscular weakness, which is common in the hind legs of dogs with cushings. It would have to be very specific to one set of muscles though to cause it in the face. So, yes, interesting.

We're very glad you found us too. Goodness having two dogs with cushings must be a hand full at times.

Sharlene and Molly Muffin

I am assuming the dates you gave are the dogs birth dates? If they are your dog may be suffering from vestibular Disease. I know there are some dogs on the forum with it, and it seems to have some faint connection to Cushings either through the disease or by age. My dog Tipper has it. I ma wondering if you dog has ever looked dizzy or circled and tilted it's head down? This can bring on facial paralysis, which may or may not go away. It makes an appearance of droop muscles in the face. Please bring this to the attention of your vet. Do you have the same test for Cushings as we do in the U.S.? LDDS, ACTH. Urine, Blood Panel, Ultra Sound? If so which ones have your dogs had, and can you tell us the abnormal results and the scale the lab uses for normal readings? Are both dogs having symptoms? Were they both tested? This is a hard disease to diagnose so it would need more that one test. Did your vet say what type of Cushings it was? If it is Pituitary I know that the Netherlands pioneered a procedure through the roof of the dogs mouth to remove the pituitary tumor. Yes Vetoryl is expensive here, depending on where you buy it the prices vary. Blessings
Patti

Hi and Welcome,

Dechra lists facial paralysis as one of the less common symptoms of Cushings see link

http://www.dechra-us.com/Cushings-Sy...yndrome-1.aspx

I believe Sonja's Angel Apollo was diagnosed with it. My Zoe has had one or two of the rarer symptoms as well but then not some of the obvious ones, each dog is so different. Two pups with Cushings, my goodness, you have your hands full so I am so glad you found us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by addy

Hi and Welcome,

Dechra lists facial paralysis as one of the less common symptoms of Cushings see link

http://www.dechra-us.com/Cushings-Sy...yndrome-1.aspx

I believe Sonja's Angel Apollo was diagnosed with it. My Zoe has had one or two of the rarer symptoms as well but then not some of the obvious ones, each dog is so different. Two pups with Cushings, my goodness, you have your hands full so I am so glad you found us.

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yes it is indeed a rare symptom. but i also found it in a list somewhere. it has nothing to do with the vestibular disease. flynn has no other symptoms of that disease. moderin did not help. i'm glad i found this forum too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goldengirl88

I am assuming the dates you gave are the dogs birth dates? If they are your dog may be suffering from vestibular Disease. I know there are some dogs on the forum with it, and it seems to have some faint connection to Cushings either through the disease or by age. My dog Tipper has it. I ma wondering if you dog has ever looked dizzy or circled and tilted it's head down? This can bring on facial paralysis, which may or may not go away. It makes an appearance of droop muscles in the face. Please bring this to the attention of your vet. Do you have the same test for Cushings as we do in the U.S.? LDDS, ACTH. Urine, Blood Panel, Ultra Sound? If so which ones have your dogs had, and can you tell us the abnormal results and the scale the lab uses for normal readings? Are both dogs having symptoms? Were they both tested? This is a hard disease to diagnose so it would need more that one test. Did your vet say what type of Cushings it was? If it is Pituitary I know that the Netherlands pioneered a procedure through the roof of the dogs mouth to remove the pituitary tumor. Yes Vetoryl is expensive here, depending on where you buy it the prices vary. Blessings
Patti

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yes, those are the dogs birthmonth/year. urine sample from both dogs showed diluted [is that what you call it in english?] wbc ok. the bloodwork showed very high levels of
(AF, AST, ALT) those are liver levels. and glucose about 8[a little bit too high] . alkaline phosphatase was with both dogs almost 1000 [normal max 150]. the vet saw that the liver was way bigger than normal with both dogs. kidney's ; bun and crea ok. we use a test called spotchen test.

flynn has had a special thyroid test [showed classic hair loss] and t4 was only 5 [8-40 is normal.] tsh was normal. the vet said that this was also a sign of cushing.

if you could see a picture of flynn, you can see that he is a classic case; he shows all the signs of cushing.

since i have 3 elderly dogs and not a lot of money at the moment, i can't afford the more expensive tests.

they respond very well on a low dose of vetoryl 1-2 mg/kg bodyweight so for the moment i keep it this way as long as they do well.

I know what you mean about cost. All of this has nearly bankrupted me with what all my dog has been tested for etc. I don't know how they think someone on a fixed income can afford all this, they have no mercy where the fees are involved. Is the Vetoryl expensive over there? You dogs do sound like they have a lot of the symptoms of Cushings. I am going nuts with one dog having it, I cannot imagine two dogs having it at the same time. I don't know if I could handle that. I feel so bad that you are dealing with this with two dogs. It must be heartbreaking. I hope things work out for all of you. Blessings
Patti

thank you patti for the kind words. yes it already cost me a fortune and vetoryl is very expensive in europe. i started on a low dose and as long as they do well, i don't test them. ian is a very shy dog and afraid of the vet. he gets too much stress overthere. he is almost 13 and doing well for now. flynn is 10,5 now and has a very aggressive form of cushing. he was a working sheep/cowherding dog so he had a pretty hard life. [he loved his work] he still wants to work, but he can't do it anymore due to weakness of his hindquarters. we still walk a lot in the nature and he enjoys that too. but he won't get old i think. he became a bit of an old dog in the last months.

ian weighs 14,5 kg [= about 30 pounds i believe in usa] and does well on 20 mg vetoryl. he was dry almost inmediately after starting vetoryl.
flynn weighs 29 kg [which is 5 kg too much] and gets 60 mg once a day. and 2x200 mg forthyron.

I know all about the hind leg weakness. My Tipper had bulging muscles before this Cushings it has wasted much of her rear leg muscle away. It is just pitiful to see her body compared to what it was. I am trying to keep her form deteriorating any further, by staying on top of everything. Hope your babies continue to do well. What is your weather like over there now? We are having frigid temperatures all week, hasn't been this cold in 30 years here. Blessings
Patti