New here, searching for answers

[Nonie0206]

I have an 8 year old Lab mix, has always drank a lot of water, thought it was just her manner. This summer she started excessive peeing, losing her hair, panting, and more drinking than I have every seen her do. So in September had her tested for Cushings, it was positive. I realized that I had changed her to a new flea medicine in May called Simparica, which she took for 3 months. I became curious about this medicine and looked it up, found out the side effects from this medicine are similar to symptoms for cushing. Haven't started Sadie (my Lab) on Vetoryl at this time. I have stopped the flea medicine. And she seems to be getting better. Less drinking, peeing, and panting, and her hair may be starting to grow back. So I am not sure of the dx of Cushings. Vet didn't even want to test her for Cushings in the first place, said most likely not cushings. Can anyone comment you thoughts here please. I just don't trust the information I have gotten thus far, would love to hear from people who have dealt with this.

[labblab]

Hello and welcome to you and Sadie — as you can see, I’m a Lab lover, too :-))).

That’s so interesting that you’re seeing symptom improvement now that you’ve discontinued the Simparica. It’s not a med with which I’m familiar, so I’ve spent a little time Googling it. I see that the manufacturer’s published warnings about side effects focus mainly on neurological issues. I didn’t see anything in their literature about excessive thirst or urination. However, here’s an excerpt from the FDA’s 2020 approval announcement:


Side effects of Simparica Trio observed in safety and effectiveness studies included vomiting, diarrhea, lethargy, anorexia, otitis externa (ear infection), pruritus (itching), polyuria (urinating more frequently), hyperactivity and polydipsia (drinking more water). While neurological side effects were not observed in these studies, sarolaner, one of the active ingredients in Simparica Trio, is in the isoxazoline drug class. FDA considers these drugs to be safe and effective, but the agency has issued a public alert that, in some cases, isoxazoline products have been associated with neurologic adverse reactions, including muscle tremors, ataxia, and seizures in some dogs and cats.

https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/cvm-updates/fda-approves-simparica-trio-combination-drug-heartworm-and-other-parasites

I’m guessing this may be what you’ve seen as well. Sadie’s hair loss wouldn’t be explained by this, but as you say, several other symptoms could possibly be related — or at least worsened by this med. In honesty, if Sadie were my own dog, I’d hold off on starting Vetoryl treatment, too, if her symptoms continue to normalize on their own. Even if Sadie genuinely has Cushing’s, there’d be little reason to start the Vetoryl since symptom resolution is the chief goal of treatment, anyway. Vetoryl would not “cure” the actual disease even if Sadie truly does have it. So I’d be inclined to wait and see what happens. If Cushing’s is actually present, you’ll likely see a rebound of symptoms over time. At that point, you can revisit both the diagnostics and your treatment decision.

I’m honestly very interested in knowing what happens with Sadie, so I really hope you’ll continue to update us, either way. And I appreciate learning that Simparica can possibly produce these Cushing’s-like symptoms. I’ll add it to my list of questions for other folks who come to us with concerns about excessive thirst/urination/panting.

Good luck to you two, and please do stay in touch!
Marianne

[Joan2517]

Hello and welcome from me, too. I would agree with Marianne and wait on starting Vetoryl, since she may not need it. Sadie's hair loss could still be an allergic reaction to the Simparica even if it is not listed with the other side effects. Every dog is different and reacts differently to things. We had a Saluki (Isis) who was diagnosed with canine lymphoma in the nineties, she was only six, and we always believed it was caused by the flea collar that we had put on her a few years before.

My Lena had a terrible reaction to Zodiac flea meds and the side effects lasted for about four days. She was a dog who never complained, but with this, she was hyper, whined and cried, and just couldn't get comfortable for days. It didn't bother any of my other dogs, just her. So you just never know...

[Nonie0206]

Thank You Marianne!! Your opinion is very helpful, letting me know that I am feeling the same as someone else. That is VERY helpful. I was scared that I was feeling that no need for medications might make her symptoms worse or even worse than that. You seem to understand very clearly!!! Thank YOu!!

[Nonie0206]

Thank You for a quick reply, I totally agree with you. Sadie had heart worms when I first got her from a rescue location. So she was on antibiotics for over a year for that issue. The only and biggest issue I have with her now is that her itching is continuous. Mostly on her head, and front feet occasionally other areas of her body. have been told that is probably due to the food, I have tried many different types of food, even went on home made for over 6 months, no change with any of them though.

[labblab]

So good to hear back from you! I’m sure sorry about the itching. We struggled with that, too, with our previous non-Cushing’s Lab girl. I tried so many different foods, too, but that never seemed to be the answer. I know there are some newer anti-allergy meds on the market now, but unfortunately I’m not knowledgeable about any of them. Just as a side note, historically steroids were frequently used as allergy treatments and probably still are. However, for any dog with Cushing’s or suspected of Cushing’s, steroids are a no-no unless absolutely necessary because they will “double” the problem of excessive steroid circulation in the body.

I surely hope you can find something to ease Sadie’s itchiness, though. And once again, please do keep us updated.

Marianne

[Nonie0206]

So good to hear back from you! I’m sure sorry about the itching. We struggled with that, too, with our previous non-Cushing’s Lab girl. I tried so many different foods, too, but that never seemed to be the answer. I know there are some newer anti-allergy meds on the market now, but unfortunately I’m not knowledgeable about any of them. Just as a side note, historically steroids were frequently used as allergy treatments and probably still are. However, for any dog with Cushing’s or suspected of Cushing’s, steroids are a no-no unless absolutely necessary because they will “double” the problem of excessive steroid circulation in the body.

I surely hope you can find something to ease Sadie’s itchiness, though. And once again, please do keep us updated.

Marianne

Thank you so much for replying, I find this site very hard to use, as I am not sure that this is the right place to post my reply to you. I may not post any more due to the difficulty of site use. Thank You so much Marianne!!

[labblab]

You posted your reply in exactly the right way — please don’t leave us on account of any worries about your posting! Just keep on doing the same thing and you’ll be fine! Or if you have any specific questions about using the site, you can always email us at k9cushings@gmail.com.

No matter what you decide, though, continued good luck and best wishes to you and Sadie!
Marianne

[labblab]

Here is my question. I don't understand diabetes in dogs.
Does diabetes go along with Cushings disease? and if not what are some numbers of blood sugar for diabetic dogs, and how much insulin is being given?

I am not a visitor, I have a log in, and it does not work, but I need help from those who are dealing with a sick pup, yes mine is 10 years old, and I know that there is rhyme or reason to all of this, but I need advice from those of you who are experienced in this area. Please help.
Hello and welcome back to us! I’ve copied the above posts that you had added as visitor messages on your profile page. By adding them to your original thread here, we’ll be able to talk back-and-forth with one another.

I’m guessing that you’re writing to us again about your Lab girl, Sadie. When you were here before, you were considering the possibility that Sadie might have Cushing’s, as opposed to having a medication reaction. Has the Cushing’s diagnosis been revisited? Are you thinking that Sadie may have both Cushing’s and diabetes — or just diabetes alone?

We do see dogs who suffer from both diabetes and Cushing’s as independent diseases. It’s also the case that the elevated steroid levels in the blood caused by Cushing’s can have the potential to cause elevated glucose readings, as well. In that case, glucose levels ought to normalize again if the steroid level is reduced through effective Cushing’s treatment. However, highly elevated glucose levels, whatever the cause, need to be treated in some manner for as long as they persist.

We have a sister site, k9diabetes.com, where folks are much more knowledgeable about diabetic treatment. In terms of any questions you may have about insulin or general diabetic management, I encourage you to register and post over there on K9diabetes. I’m a member over there, as well, so I can watch out for any postings you may make on that site. Here’s a direct link to their forum. Just as is the case here, you’ll need to first register before your postings will be seen publicly:

https://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

So in closing, please do let us know the specifics about Sadies’s current situation, and also do join the K9D website if you think diabetes may be involved.

Marianne

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Nonie,

I hope you and your precious Sadie are still with us! A forum is different than Facebook groups but here's the catch....here you will get sound scientific fact along with our personal experiences. We do not allow opinion offered as fact. On FB groups, several of which I admin and mod for, you get more nonsense than fact. There is simply not enough staff in those groups to monitor and address every post and every comment loaded with misinformation...and often downright deadly information. So please stick around and let us help you learn to navigate the forum. Once you do, I think you will find it much easier to use than the FB groups...for one thing all Sadie's history is in one place. You can always return to this thread and remind yourself of the information you were given and it will also serve as a sort of diary of her progress. In the FB groups keeping that sort of tracking is near impossible. ;)

I just have one thought to add to what has already been said and that is cortisol is a natural anti-inflammatory and when elevated in an untreated cush pup "treats" things like allergies and arthritis. It is after treatment has started and the cortisol is lowered to a more normal level that we see those things raise their ugly heads. So that is another reason to wait and watch in my mind.

Hugs,
Leslie

[triciaub13]

Hi! I just started my 15lb female Havanese on 10mg of Vetoryl just 6 days ago. I really didn't want to give her a script but as far as I know, there really are not any other natural or script medications that are FDA-approved or very effective for the treatment of pets with Cushing's. Surgery (to remove the tumors) is an option but I do not know of anyone that has done that. I opted to treat her with just medication given she is turning 13 in 2 months. I just want to make her comfortable for the time she has left at this point. You might be onto something as far as the flea treatment is concerned. From my observation, Cushing's has become very common in dogs over 9 years of age (mostly smaller dogs of terrier breed) and I wonder if there is a link between some common medication we give our dogs or (as you mentioned) in flea treatment or even Heartworm. Maybe you should contact the manufacturer of Simparica regarding your pet's diagnosis. What I do know is my poor dog started with this horrific skin infection which no matter how it was treated never got better. The vet immediately suspected Cushing's and was "spot on" with that diagnosis after she was fully tested. My dog really didn't have many of the typical signs of Cushing's (peeing frequently, urinary tract infections, increased hunger, and drinking). What she did/does have are bleeding skin lesions and a bloated belly. I've done some research and I've tried a few natural treatments but with no marked success. Some have had success with supplementing with Melatonin I've read but I just don't know if I trust the sources because they want to sell their expensive/unaffordable products. Here's what I know, "Sally" has been on Vetoryl for 6 days and already her tummy doesn't seem as bloated and she has been moving around more than she did in prior weeks. Also, FYI. I've only treated my dogs (I have 2 Havanese's/brother & sister), with a Topical Flea medication (never heard of the one you mentioned) briefly (maybe once a month ONLY during the summer and maybe for only 3 years tops). I don't really like using those chemicals on their skin unless it is really necessary. My dogs have never, ever had a single flea seen on them BUT I did find a tick on "Sally" 3 times in her life and removed it immediately. Finding the tick prompted me to treat her with the flea medication because I was concerned about her safety and my family's safety. No one wants fleas in their house (of course) but ticks are scary and we have many deer in our area and trees. Since stopping any topical flea meds. I am constantly checking my dogs and I bathe them at least 2 times a week with Vet recommended shampoo. I also spray a natural lawn treatment on my backyard trees, plants, and lawn to help with ticks and fleas.

Administrator’s Note: For anyone who wishes to reply directly to this new member, Sally now has a thread of her own here:

https://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?9637-Havanese-beginning-Vetoryl-treatment