Chip - Zanya's brother. 14yo Shiba

[ShibaMom]

As far as Chip, his exam yesterday went very well, and he definitely doesn't have diabetes - whew!! His values were quite good on the UA.
We'll have the bloodwork results tomorrow, I'm eager to see those.

The vet said he's in great shape for his age, and is very pleased. He has a mature cataract in his "good" eye, so some diminished vision, but it's not very dense, so that's why he can still see decently well.
His heart murmur hasn't gotten any worse, it's not that bad, so that's always a relief. He has an interesting arrhythmia, that goes along with his breathing (not new). I forget which way it is, but one direction of breathing (in/out), it slows down, and the other direction (out/in), it beats rapidly.

I hope it's ok to share all this about him in here as well?

Here's hoping for a much better week this week!!!

Best,
Samantha
and Zanya, Chip, Tux, Weasley and Angel Gingus

[ShibaMom]

Thank you all for your kindness and care about all our beloved pets.

For Chip, he actually has BOTH a murmur, and the arrhythmia.
I'll start a thread for him under Everything Else tomorrow.

CHIP'S TESTING RESULTS:

Real quick, he has early kidney disease, and then either liver disease or malabsorption.
Creatine .... Feb: 2.2 .... Ref: <1.5
BUN ......... Feb: 44 ..... Ref: <31
Blood protein low
ALB ................ Sep: 2.4 .... Feb: 1.9 .... Ref: 2.7-3.9
Total protein .... Sep: 5.4 .... Feb: 4.7 .... Ref: 5.5-7.5

He's also not been eating all his food, walking away, etc.
So we're going to mix in 1 ounce of high-quality protein (egg white, cheese, steak, boiled chicken, canned tuna in water, lean hamburger, etc.) may give full homemade. Also going to switch him to Zanya's renal MP diet, as he seems to like the taste more, maybe he'll eat better.
We'll re-test in 2 months. If has gone down at all, will switch to food with hydrolyzed protein so it's the smaller bits to absorb more easily. Also maybe add whey protein if needed.

I'll copy and paste this into the new thread for CHIP, but hopefully called it all out for the moment as being for him ;-)

Take care,
Samantha

[molly muffin]

Have you tried the tripe dried dog food for Chip? (they have canned too) It's pretty high in protein, but low in phosphorus. I tried it with molly, who has protein losing kidney disease and it made her BUN go up. The IMS said, yea, tripe will do that, but it is a very good protein. I don't give her much as she has a mixed food but I will give it to her as a treat and she Loves it. So maybe something to think about or try.

So glad that Zanya is doing so well. :)

[labblab]

Once you start a thread for Chip, I can move these related replies for you. ;)

But regarding his bloodwork, the low albumin caught my eye because right now my nonCushpup Lab girl is slowly dropping her albumin, too, for reasons as yet undetermined. I see that Chip's albumin is really awfully low, though. Has your vet expressed specific concern about that? Unfortunately, I know you can't directly supplement albumin and the best relief is identifying/addressing the cause, which isn't always easy.

For my dog, my vet and I have been wondering whether she is losing protein through her urine and whether that may be linked to her abnormal albumin. There is treatment for proteinuria if that is taking place. After testing her urine, we found that Peg is indeed losing an abnormal amount of protein, but not yet at a level that warrants treatment. So something else may be the greater cause of her low albumin. We are still scratching our heads.

Anyway, my point being is that I am wondering whether Chip has had a recent urinalysis to check for protein loss? If not, that would be a good thing to do, since it is a problem for which there is medication treatment.

I know every lab has a different reference range, but I've been told that serious physical problems can start manifesting when albumin drops below 2.0. So I am feeling kinda worried seeing that Chip's level is at 1.9. Is your vet saying there is any urgency in stepping up diagnostics to figure out what may be the cause?

Marianne

[Harley PoMMom]

Kidney disease can cause decreases in the albumin so this may be the reason for Chip's low albumin level.

Nausea is common in dogs with kidney disease, has the vet mentioned giving Chip Pepcid AC? My Harley also had kidney issues and eventually the Pepcid AC made him even more nauseated, I then switched him to slippery elm bark.

[labblab]

Yep, I definitely agree, Lori. Given the elevations in BUN and creatinine, that's why I'm wondering about possible protein loss in Chip's urine. Not all kidney disease causes protein leakage, but if Chip is suffering from the type that does, that could explain the low albumin.

Marianne

[ShibaMom]

Hi all,

I'm finally getting around to posting Chip's own thread. He's not Cushingoid (that we know of), but has his own challenges.

For a little background, last August, while our dogsitter was here with her Shiba, she had put up the baby gate and went downstairs to do laundry. Chip decided to jump the gate (at his age, I think it was more of "pull himself over, barely, and ungracefully, and then unceremoniously land in a funky way") to get to her dog.
When she or others are around, they tolerate each other pretty fine, and while he can be snarky with some dogs, he doesn't go after them to attack or anything like that, at all.
I think he scared her dog, and they got in to it a little. She came upstairs, separated them, and could tell Chip had hurt something.
There was no blood at all. She didn't think there was even wetness from mouthiness, but not 100% sure.
They seemed ok, and she didn't think about it too much more until she noticed Chip was holding his neck weird, and was sensitive. So she took him to our vet, and they could tell his neck was hurting, and a few spots lower on his back. They gave him rimadyl and tramadol I think, did xrays, nothing broken. It took a while, but he seemed to finally no longer have pain.

He had also lost some hearing (he's 75-80% deaf I'd say), and had reduced visual acuity in his left eye (which now is much worse).

Continuing on.....

Now his left eye basically just sees a little bit of light, and that's about it. He has a dense cataract in that eye. I recently noticed a slight reduction in vision in his right eye, and vet says he has a mature, though not very dense, cataract in his right/"good" eye, so I was spot on (unfortunately).

He also has muscle loss in his face/cheeks - you can really feel his zygomatic arch, like you can actually grasp each side between your fingers.

I had noticed his back legs seemed not quite as coordinated as they had in the past, and we found some loss of conscious proprioception, though it varies. Vet thinks he has nerve damage from the event in August, which makes total sense. He doesn't appear to be in any pain from it (she pushed on the areas that had previously been painful, along his spine (on either side), and he doesn't have any painful response.), so that's good.

She thinks he does have some arthritis, so we started him (and Zanya) on Dasuquin with MSM. (Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, ASU (avocado/soybean unsaponifiables) We'll see if it helps. She said it helps some dogs tremendously, others not as much. If it doesn't, we'll look at something else, but better to try this approach first, and I agree.

I'll do another post to continue.

[ShibaMom]

So last Saturday I took Chip to the vet. This was prompted by him developing polydipsia and polyuria pretty suddenly about 2 months ago.
I rescued him when he was about 4 years old, and he had been kept in an outdoor kennel with a bunch of other dogs, 24/7. Thus, he learned to go pee where he was, so when we got him, he'd sometimes go inside. We had crated him when not home, but he was breaking out of the crate, and damaging his teeth, so we had to stop. We ended up getting him the "belly wraps," or the male diapers, and he's worn them now for years. Because of this, it's extra easy to gauge his urine output. He doesn't always wet the wrap, and used to go days without going in it, but now it's wet all the time, and pretty loaded. Thus, it was quite obvious.
Also, he's the sort who rarely drank water. Just here and there, though his various tests were fine. That's just how he's always been. Thus, it was easy to spot when he'd be drinking like every hour.

He's also had BOTH a heart murmur, and an unusual arrhythmia. I don't know the "grade" of the murmur, I'll find out. The arrhythmia goes along with his breathing (not new). I forget which way it is, but one direction of breathing (in/out), it slows down, and the other direction (out/in), it beats rapidly.

Another new symptom, is that he'll walk away from his food in the middle of eating it. For Chip, this is highly unusual. He's VERY food motivated, and can be food aggressive (with animals, but never humans). Vet said maybe it's a bit of dementia, and while I do think he has some, I just really don't think that's the reason.

I also wanted the "head" vet, who is now treating Zanya, to see Chip. She hadn't in a while, but the other vet (who's no longer there) had seen him. I wanted her more experienced eyes.

The vision in his left eye, which as I mentioned had been somewhat reduced in August, but then it seemed to really get drastically worse since that time.


So, the vet ran a UA and bloodwork.
Bloodwork: (repost from Zanya's thread)
Creatine .... Feb: 2.2 .... Ref: <1.5
BUN ......... Feb: 44 ..... Ref: <31
Blood protein low
ALB ................ Sep: 2.4 .... Feb: 1.9 .... Ref: 2.7-3.9
Total protein .... Sep: 5.4 .... Feb: 4.7 .... Ref: 5.5-7.5

UA (I captured at home, about 45 minutes before his appointment. Didn't refrigerate). This was done in-house, and they don't list the reference ranges.
I'll put anything that had a value other than 0.
color: yellow
odor: fishy (???)
PH 6.5
Bacteria: cocci 1-5HPf
Crystals: crystalline debris 0-4HPF
Debris: amorphous 2+
EPS: squamous 2-6HPF
SG: 1.020

Vet said since it was a free catch, the bacteria and EPS weren't a concern.
To emphasize, based on other ideas/questions people have kindly posted under Zanya's thread, there was no protein in his urine.

-----
(below summary is directly quoted from Zanya's thread)

So, vet says he has early kidney disease, and either liver disease or malabsorption (based on the low blood protein).

So we're going to mix in 1 ounce of high-quality protein (egg white, cheese, steak, boiled chicken, canned tuna in water, lean hamburger, etc.) may give full homemade. Also going to switch him to Zanya's renal MP diet, as he seems to like the taste more, maybe he'll eat better.
We'll re-test in 2 months. If has gone down at all, will switch to food with hydrolyzed protein so it's the smaller bits to absorb more easily. Also maybe add whey protein if needed.

Thanks!
Samantha

[ShibaMom]

PS - And if you've read through my novella, THANK YOU! :-)

Zanya and Chip are half "siblings", btw. They share the same stud.
They were both showdogs, who were surrendered back to the breeder after a few years, supposedly because they (the dogs) didn't want to show anymore.
Go figure.

Chip's more of a typical Shiba than Zanya ... he's pretty aloof, he almost NEVER licks people... every now and then you can a teensy, almost lick right when you come in, if he's super excited. I'm talking tip of the tongue tapping your cheek sort of thing. Those are super treasures :)
Otherwise, he's happy to just go lay down, with his back facing you.

He's definitely been more snarky lately. I'm guessing part of that is due to not being able to see as well. My grandpuppy (who lives here) gets the brunt of it, though they do play some. She's much bigger than them!!

Ok, enough for now!

Cheers everyone, and Happy Valentines Day!!
Samantha
and the crew:
Pups: Zanya (13.5yo Shiba), Chip (14yo Shiba) and grandpup Kappa (1yo Shepherd (Malinois?) mix - supposedly Boxer, but don't know about that)
Kitties: Tux (7yo DSH) and Weasley (3yo ? White and orange)
Angel Gingus (7yo DSH) ~ 2/4/15

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Samantha,

I see you have started a thread for Chip, good job!! I have taken the liberty and moved/copied some posts from Zanya's thread that referenced to Chip and placed them here, I hope that was alright.

[ShibaMom]

Yes, thank you very much for moving them!

He's been seeming ... I don't know if it's constipated, or what... but he'll be straining, which he doesn't normally do. Last night after he came in (after a LONG time out there trying/going?) I checked his rear, and there was some wet looking bits of poo, so I'm not quite sure what to think. I asked the vet yesterday about him seeming maybe constipated (before checking his rear), and she said that the Dasuquin *could* cause it (I asked that directly), who knows.
My honey is out grocery shopping now, and picking up a can of PLAIN pumpkin, we'll try a teeny bit since it should help either way.

Also when he comes in after trying to go, he'll have his butt tucked down a bit, and his back arched, and his back legs bent a bit. I'm wondering if his back is hurting from whatever is going on. It wasn't the other day, but it does seem a bit sensitive today where 2 discs had seemed injured back in August. It's very strange. Will ask vet about it tomorrow. Not really sure what to think?!

My poor boy. I had 1/4 of a tramadol left, so gave that to him about an hour and a half ago. I know not to give him Rimadyl, because of the kidney disease.
He also seems to have a yeast infection in one ear - oy vei!! Fortunately, I still have the ear ointment drops from last time. He just can't get a break!!

Hope everyone's having a good weekend...
Samantha

[molly muffin]

Hi Samantha, how is Chip doing? Is he still doing the hunch back thing? I hope not as that can be a sign of pain. :(
Are his poos any better? Hope not constipated. Did you try the plain pumpkin for that?

hugs

[ShibaMom]

Hi Sharlene!

Thanks for asking. He's not doing the hunch back thing, but definitely hasn't been a happy camper, clearly in some pain, so got him some more Tramadol from the vet.

Also, he seems to have an oral infection again. They may have missed something during his dental, or a tooth that looked probably ok may have turned south. She said we'll be doing what they call pulse antibiotics for him for a while. One week of AB a month. Hate to give ABs much, but this is the 3rd time its come back. (well, 2nd since having 11 (!) teeth removed in September/October).

The other day I was watching to see if I could tell what Chip was dealing with - constipation or diarrhea, and definitely diarrhea. We've been giving the bit of pumpkin, though not sure it was helping. Past couple days have been giving him just chicken and rice and the pumpkin.
I haven't observed him going, though... probably has gone when someone else let him out - I awoke on Saturday with Strep throat - ugh! - so have been a bit out of it.

He and Kappa pup had another altercation the other day. He was snarking but grabbed on to her neck/jowl and so she grabbed him back, same exact spot as the other week, poor guy. Can't really blame her, though - she's 100% tolerant of him snarking at her, even if his mouth hits her, but doesn't actually bite down.
No broken skin on either side, either time.

So, he's very sore there - it's like just beneath his left ear, which is the one with the yeast infection, too. Sheesh!

He's been really not wanting to lie down much (he does at night to sleep, for some time, at least). Maybe because it's uncomfortable to get up? Not sure.
He just stands a lot and walks around. Snarking lots. Our new nickname for him is the angry old man. Poor guy. We tried the Thundershirt today, as it did help him a bit with thunderstorms, back when he could hear (he was terrified of them. One saving grace of his hearing loss!), but it didn't help at all.

Strangely, he's actually been "asking" to go out. He never has before. Like, ever. He just waits until you let him out, and if it's too long, he pees in his "wrap" (the belly band/male "diaper" wrap with a poise pad in it). He doesn't go for very long, but has been indicating to go out. Typically by standing by the door, but tonight he even scratched at the door. He's NEVER done that. Hope he doesn't have a UTI or anything, on top of everything else!

He just layed down at my feet (he's always loved being right by people's feet, or even behind your legs if sitting like on the couch). Head not down, though. Hopefully he'll settle.

Take care,
Samantha

[Harley PoMMom]

That "hunch back" is very common when a dog is experiencing a pancreatitis episode. Pancreatitis does make their tummy area sensitive to the touch, which could be why Chip is reluctant to lay on his tummy. And panreatitis can be quite painful, which Tramadol is commonly prescribed for the pain.

IDEXX has a test that is specific in diagnosing pancreatitis, it is called the spec cPL, here's a link about it: http://www.idexx.com.au/smallanimal/reference-laboratories/testmenu/innovative-tests/spec-cpl.html

Strep throat, Uggg!! Hope it clears up real soon, in the meantime take car of yourself.

Hugs, Lori

[ShibaMom]

Thanks, Lori! I'll check that out!

[ShibaMom]

So that night, I had spoken with the vet, and didn't bring it up directly, but was saying about him arching back, etc, and she didn't say anything about possible pancreatitis. I decided not to bring it up directly for the moment.

His diarrhea would get better with chicken and rice, and then once regular food introduced, he'd have diarrhea again, so for the moment I stopped giving him the Dasuquin and put him back on normal food, instead of Zanya's which is Royal Canin Renal MP Modified. (or Modified MP, whatever it is).

Those were the only changes. Last night he had a semi-formed part, and then some squirts, so not sure if it's coming back. If so, will call. We haven't seen the hunch back thing again though.

It's so bizarre having him "asking" to go out, he's still doing it (even just for peeing), when for 14 years (well, 10 that we've had him) he's never done that!

His smelly mouth cleared up nicely with the antibiotic. Yay.

I mentioned on the 22nd how he and Kappa had another altercation, and he was snippier. He's been so bad about it. When she's out of her room, he's constantly, CONSTANTLY snarking at her. As in, rushing at her and bared-teeth barks. I'm about to lose my mind from the constant sound. Poor Zanya is SO stressed out by it. She's been wearing her Thundershirt almost 24/7.

Kappa does like to hang out in her crate, though, so she's out of sight when she is.
He's also become more snarky with the cats since then... going after them more, which he only really did occasionally with Gingus (who recently passed), and it was more playful than anything.

I actually went out and hesitantly, bought a muzzle to work with him on. The rubber "cage" sort of one, that they can get treats in and drink water in and such. Not to leave on all the time, but when he gets really ramped up.
Shout out to Pongo's mom, who has YouTube videos of training Pongo and Tonka, and one of them was training a dog to get used to that type of muzzle. It's actually what made me think of seriously getting one. Chip doesn't seem to mind it much at all! At his age, I know he's not going to change, and we can't put him in a "down" or other techniques really, because of his body issues and all. So trying some things, but when it comes down to it, have to protect the others.

This morning, something separate (which is actually why I began this post!), my daughter said he was just standing there, and suddenly he dropped to the ground... first his front half, then back.. then he got back up front half, then back.
Not sure what that's about?! The primary vet I have treating him (same as Zanya) is out until tomorrow.

Take care,
Samantha, Zanya, Chip, Tux and Weasley.

[ShibaMom]

Hello friends,

We took Zanya in for her ACTH stim test today, hoping it comes back good!
When picking up chip, I had my daughter bring Chip in to get a weight, as I'm concerned that he's losing weight, and he is. He's had the diarrhea on and off, though we've been on strictly chicken and rice for about 5 days now. He had several bouts of throwing up, yesterday morning, the night before and the morning before. Not everything, but some.

He's lost 1.2 pounds since Feb 7, so just shy of 5 weeks. He was 22.5, and is 21.3. That seems like a big change for me in that time. He's very lean, has gotten leaner, and has lost muscle mass (in general over the past 3-6 months).
I left a message to let the vet know, and see what she thinks.

Any thoughts?

Best regards,
Samantha

[molly muffin]

A good probiotic might help with the gastro issues, also an antibiotic like METRONIDAZOLE. Those would be my first choice. Every time molly has had diarrhea that goes on too long, those are the two things my vet puts her on.

hugs

[judymaggie]

A couple of other thoughts--is Chip regurgitating his food (which usually happens shortly after eating before food is digested) or is it later after food is digested (usually mixed with bile)? The distinction will help your vet decide how to proceed. Also wondering if pepcid ac 15-20 minutes before a meal might help with digestion.

My Abbie has had chronic diarrhea since I adopted her. She has been on metronidazole for many months along with pepcid and forti-flora probiotics. She has had normal bowel movements since starting this regimen. Now in the process of weaning her off of the metronidazole and she is still doing good.

[ShibaMom]

Thanks, ladies!

Some of it has been long after, some not right after, but not real long after.
Vet's wondering if his body isn't liking the rice. I'd switched from regular white to my japanese rice, and wonder if that could be it. She suggested we try pasta instead. If that's not it, we'll go with metronidazole. I also meant to pick up the pepcid. Thanks for the reminder.

She, too, was concerned about the weight loss, so we're going to give him "snacks" of more pasta and such (calories, but not fat (risk of pancreatitis) or more protein).
My poor boy. He's scaring me. He's not lethargic though or anything. It's been a very rough day.
13 years ago today my mom died, and today an "uncle" took a turn for the worse, and it's only a matter of time. He's lived a long life, and has been battling with Parkinson's and 3 rounds of cancer. It's finally taken its toll, and he's ready. And his son just died recently. Rough time for the family!

Makes me nervous, especially since I'll need to be going out of town "back home" and away from my babies.

Take care,
Samantha

PS - Thanks for "listening". I'm very thankful this day is about over.

[Squirt's Mom]

Thinking of you and your family during this sad time, Samantha. I hope an answer and solution is found soon for Chip.

[judymaggie]

Samantha -- so sorry everything seems to be colliding on the same day.

One other thoughts for Chip -- not sure if he is eating out his bowl but, if he is, have you tried elevating it? Sometimes that helps with digestive issues.

Take care!

[molly muffin]

This one day that just needs to pass. :(
I do hope tomorrow is better for you and for Chip.

hugs and thinking of you and your family.

[ShibaMom]

Hello all!

I hope you're doing well. I've been a bit awol, life has been crazy!

I took Chip for follow-up testing yesterday, and here are his results (I'm copying and pasting what I put in the beginning of the thread with values from Sep/Feb for reference):

Creatine ... Feb: 2.2 .. Apr: 1.8 .. Ref: <1.5
...................Still high, but better!
BUN ........ Feb: 44 ... Apr: 48 .. Ref: <31
...................So a bit higher.

ALB ............... Sep: 2.4 .. Feb: 1.9 .. Apr: 2.5 .. Ref: 2.7-3.9
.........................Still low, but better than Sep even!
Total protein ... Sep: 5.4 .. Feb: 4.7 .. Apr: 5.4 .. Ref: 5.5-7.5
.........................Back to where it was in Sep, yay.

After all of his diarrhea issues, we've ended up just keeping him on homemade food, for the most part. Either chicken or egg or ground beef as the protein source, and then pasta/white rice for starch for the calories, and either home boiled sweet potatoes, or else some of a vegetarian mix that Evangers has (moist).

It has percentages for protein, phosphorus, etc, I need to figure out how to calculate that into actual amounts... it's cooked in the can, to retain nutrients, but of course that also means it's retaining phosphorus.

He weighs 21.2 or 21.1 pounds, so just a dab less than the last. I think we've stemmed the actual weight LOSS, but really wish we could put some more weight on him.

I did give him a little bit of the Instinct raw beef medallions... mixed with the other food he's been getting (and protein appropriately reduced). Need to be careful, though, since the bones are ground up in it, and that has more phosphorus.

Needless to say, meals are so much more complicated now!! :eek:

We've also added a probiotic to all of the animals' meals, and some "cranimals" cranberry powder, to help stave of UTIs.

Regards,
Samantha