Has anyone had any experience with holistic treatments? (14 y/o Lab mix)

[ChumsMom]

Hi all! I am totally new to this, and hate to post a question right off the bat, but I don't really know enough to be of help to anyone. Anyway, here is our story.

My 14 year old Lab mix, Chumley, has never had any health issues. We've had no real aging problems (no major thirst, major hunger, or potty accidents). The only thing we've noticed is a LOT more shedding and dry skin.

Two days ago, Chums had what seems to have been a stroke or TIA. The vet ran labs, and everything was fine but her liver enzymes were high. An ultrasound showed a small mass in her liver, but they couldn't biopsy. It also showed a UTI and very swollen adrenals. They also ran several urine tests and all pointed to Cushings.

Today, she still seems loopy, but is walking some and eating, so she's home. We will be going back to the vet for the cushings test on Tuesday, but they are 99% sure she has it. Our vet said we'd need to think about what treatments we want to do, or if we want to treat. She said many internists think there is no need to treat a dog without symptoms.

The docs seem to think she will make a full recovery from the stroke. I just don't want it to happen again. So I'm scared to not treat cushings if she has it, but I don't want to put her through too much in the way of side effects. A friend rec'd lignans and our vet said we could try, but I'd love to hear experiences from those who've been there.

Thanks!!

[lulusmom]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

I only have a minute but wanted to get things going so that we have a better understanding of your pup's current status. It would help greatly if you would please post the actual results of the blood and urine tests you mentioned. We need only see the high and low values on the blood tests and please include the normal reference ranges. Did you observe your dog having a stroke? If so, did you notice if the eyes were darting back and forth. Is or was the head tilted to the side? These are both signs of a vestibular episode and dogs usually recover within days or weeks. I don't think anybody knows what causes these episodes but they are not associated with cushing's.

The goal of treatment is to remedy the symptoms associated with cushing's, which is why symptoms are a huge component of a diagnosis. Your vet may be 99% sure your dog has cushing's but in the absence of symptoms, I believe that percentage is irrelevant. If it were my dog, I would not spend my money on diagnostics until symptoms become apparent.

I'm sure others will be by to welcome you and share their thoughts. We are a curious lot here so be prepared for more questions. The more information we have, the more meaningful our feedback will be.

Glynda

[goldengirl88]

Welcome to the forum. My Tipper has vestibular episodes. Not knowing what it was the first time she did it, it can appear to look like a stroke. They put there head down low and to one side, start going into a circular motion, and sometimes fall down. Does any of that sound lime what happened? I hope everything works out for you and your baby. Blessings
Patti

[addy]

Hi and Welcome,

I agree with Glynda and will copy a few paragraphs written by Dr. Mark Peterson, a world renowned endocrinologist:


Hyperadrenocorticism (Cushing's disease) is a clinical diagnosis and is based primarily on the finding of compatible signs (e.g., polydipsia, polyphagia hepatomegaly, hair loss, pot-belly). In a dog suspected of suffering from Cushing's syndrome, we confirm the diagnosis by using one or more of the adrenal function tests (e.g, ACTH stimulation or low-dose dexamethasone suppression tests) (5-7).

One should never make a diagnosis of hyperadrenocorticism based on the finding of large adrenal gland size alone. Remember that the stress of any nonadrenal illness commonly leads to an overactive hypothalmic-pituitary-adrenal axis. Therefore, any dog with chronic stress or illness can develop bilateral adrenocortical hyperplasia as a physiological response. I know that some radiologists like to diagnose Cushing's disease based on adrenal gland size, but this just cannot be done using this criteria alone (5,6). Dogs with Cushing's disease certainly tend to have larger adrenal glands, but large adrenal glands alone are not diagnostic for this disease.

Tell us as much information as you can but in the absence of symptoms, I would hesitate to treat. As pointed out above, Cushings is not the only thing that can cause enlarged adrenal glands.

[molly muffin]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

If there is a liver mass, even a small one, it could be contributing to increase levels of cortisol, which would cause the adrenal glands to be over active and enlarge.

Without normal symptoms, as the others have mentioned, it means very little for a vet to think that a dog has cushings. You would notice things like a ravenous appetite, drinking water by the buckets instead of normal levels, etc.

It would be very helpful to see the abnormal lab results, but even with a small mass on the liver, I'd expect the liver enzymes to be somewhat elevated due to that and not to cushings.

You must be very worried.
Sharlene and molly muffin

[Iraklis]

Hello and welcome!

More info needed as everyone else said.
Having said that, Milk thistle and/or SAM-e would help the liver either way...