Jenny Cushings & Diabetic poodle (Jenny is in heaven)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi: I have already received a lot of help on the K9 Diabetes Forum. My 11 year old toy poodle Jenny was diagnosed with diabetes on May 17. We are up to 5 units of insulin twice a day with hardly and change in her BG yet.

On July 1 she tested positive for Cushings and we have started on Lysodren. Her doctor prescribed 1/2 a tablet once a day. I didn't realize I should be giving it with food. She took her half tablet at noon today, had some runny diarrhea but then was normal. I gave her some amoxycillan this evening for an ear infection and she spit up a small vomit half an hour later.

Since it is 4th of July weekend, I'm thinking I will give her the Lysodren with her breakfast tomorrow and watch for diarrhea or vomiting. The instructions say to call the vet but it would be the ER and she is still ravenously hungry and drinking a ton of water.

I know none of you are doctors but should I be more alarmed and call the ER vet?

(we signed up as poodles on the diabetic forum cause I couldn't think of a name.)

thanks, Judi and Jenny

[StarDeb55]

Judi, I want to welcome you & Jenny! I had to manually approve your first post, so that is the delay in you seeing it on the board. Could you please check your e-mail including your spam folder for a note from k9cushings.com that we need to have you return, so we can finalize your membership.

Debbie

[frijole]

Yes. I would call the ER vet because even if you gave it with food this is strange. One dose and your dog vomits and has diarrhea? Those are both signs of too much lysodren. I am wondering if your dog even has cushings?

Please don't give any more lysodren. It is a wonderful drug but something isn't right. Did she have any new foods today or anything else that could be the culprit?

Keep us posted ok?? Kim

[frijole]

Here is some information on lysodren that might be helpful.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks for activating me Debbie. I followed the one link I have so far and it says I'm activated but on moderation. It didn't work earlier so I used one of the alternate links earlier. Let me know if I need to re-do something. thanks!

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Kim. We had ACTH test on Friday. He wrapped the test up at 5:30 just as they were closing so it was a little rushed. He said that for a level that is normally -2, I think, she was either over 300 or over 500. I'll get copies next Friday when we go back.

I called the emergency vet and she said it was up to me but that if Jenny is not lethargic and drinking water I don't need to bring her in. So I guess I'll need to decide if I give her Monday's dose or wait till Tuesday when the vet wanted me to call him anyway.

Better safe than sorry so I can hold off on Monday's dose.

thank you for your fast response. I'm not going to take her in, I'll just hold off on tomorrow's Lysodren.

eta: I had just given her amoxycillan and put some antibiotic in her ear. Maybe it was just too much. I'm almost at the spreadsheet point to keep up with her meds.

[frijole]

The ER person probably didn't read up on lysodren but rule #1 is you never give it to a sick dog - that means both diarrhea and vomiting. So even if it is something else please don't give it.

The number you posted doesn't make sense to me because an acth test for a cush dog would be a reading above normal which is around 20. So above that would indicate cushings. YOu said it was rushed so I will chalk it up to that... so yes, please get copies of all tests done to diagnose cushings (there should always be more than one done because it is soooo hard to diagnose and there are false positives frequently)

The link I provided will give you hints on how to give lysodren. Also, did your vet give you prednisone? It is a must have in case of emergencies.

What type of ear drops did you give? What other drugs is she on?

Thanks!! Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Kim: thanks. It had been such a stressful week with my Jenny I did not retain all of the tests results. They did 2 tests, one at 3pm and one at 5pm. The 3pm test was negative and the 5pm test was positive. Jenny's regular vet does not do the Cushings test and we had issues with him regarding where we would go to get it done.

She gets her insulin shots twice a day, eye drops (cyclosporine) once a day, a hormone called Diethylstribestrol every 4 days, some malotic for her ear infection and the amoxycillan.

I do have the prednisone on hand. After her diarrhea this morning she had a normal stool. She's always had poo issues which is why we didn't panic but I will keep an eye on it and not give her any more of the Lysodren till I talk to the Doctor.

thanks. Reading the link you gave before I registered is what made me re-think calling.



The ER person probably didn't read up on lysodren but rule #1 is you never give it to a sick dog - that means both diarrhea and vomiting. So even if it is something else please don't give it.

The number you posted doesn't make sense to me because an acth test for a cush dog would be a reading above normal which is around 20. So above that would indicate cushings. YOu said it was rushed so I will chalk it up to that... so yes, please get copies of all tests done to diagnose cushings (there should always be more than one done because it is soooo hard to diagnose and there are false positives frequently)

The link I provided will give you hints on how to give lysodren. Also, did your vet give you prednisone? It is a must have in case of emergencies.

What type of ear drops did you give? What other drugs is she on?

Thanks!! Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

would it be safer to give her the prednisone?

[frijole]

would it be safer to give her the prednisone?

Nope! The prednisone is to use in the event that there is an overdose of lysodren resulting in cortisol levels that are too low. When this happens the dog becomes lethargic to the point you think they are dying - they don't walk straight, they can't get up, they can't lift their head. Prednisone replaces the cortisol in a matter of hours and makes them feel normal again. So if your dog has high cortisol (which is what cushing's is and you give prednisone then you are increasing their cortisol levels.

Hope this helps. Kim

[frijole]

I forgot the other point I wanted to make. :rolleyes::o The reason I mentioned phoning the ER vet is because it is very strange that after a single dose your dog both vomited and had diarrhea - both signs of overdose. Either something else cause that illnesses OR your dog doesn't have cushings and shouldn't be taking lysodren. (happened to me)

Also - if your dog has problems with diarrhea I am wondering why your vet elected to use lysodren instead of trilostane. It seems it would be easier to get Jenny regulated but I don't know the whole story. Explain why your vet couldn't do the cushing's tests? If one was false and one was positive how do they know the 2nd one was right? Sorry.. if you can... get copies of both and post results and we'll help you thru this.

I know its difficult when there are multiple illnesses going on. By chance is your vet or the one that did the cushing's testing an internal med specialist?

Sorry to ramble on but I wanted to cover all the bases. Hugs to Jenny and glad you found us ! Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Kim. My original vet doesn't have the diagnostic equipment and hadn't even mentioned Cushings even when her liver phos levels were really high 7 months ago. I had googled it but when the hormone worked for her incontinence I let it go.

This original vet wanted to send Jenny down to the Univ of MN for her Cushings test which is 4 hours away. I heard good things about this vet in Fargo (1 hour away) from a vet tech who used to work there. We got an appointment at the last minute on Friday and took off.

Based on her medical history alone he was pretty sure she had Cushings but had never met her till Friday. I'll get the lab results from him on Tuesday. He wanted me to call him then.

We'll lay off the medicine tomorrow. Thanks so much for your advice

[frijole]

Thanks! Just an fyi - there is no special equipment used for cushing tests. There is a substance called Cortrosyn that is used and it is expensive (acth test). If the vet didn't have any on hand that might mean he hasn't handled many cushing's cases. ???

I ask because your dog really needs someone that can understand or figure out what is being caused by the diabetes and what might be cushings ... so the suggestion to hit the vet school might not be a bad one.

I live in a town of 25k in Nebraska and I ended up having to drive to Kansas State for help - closest specialist 5 hrs away! :eek: I spent a whole lot of money on wasted tests up until going there.

I send positive thoughts your way as you try to figure this all out. Hopefully someone that has dealt with both will chime in as well. Hang in there! Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I don't think he has handled many Cushings cases. And he hadn't seen Jenny when she was there for her last glucose curve but said he would send her to the U if I felt her big belly was a cause for alarm. I thought we shouldn't rely on my opinion before we made that call. I feel for you on the 5 hour drive. I just felt like we were jumping the gun but hindsight is definitely making me question that decision about not going to the U.

Thanks so much. At least she seems fascinated by the firecrackers in the neighborhood vs. scared. thanks again

Judi

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi Judi,

A belated welcome to you and Jenny! It is hard to get a firm diagnosis of Cushing's in a dog with uncontrolled diabetes.

Non-adrenal illnesses like uncontrolled diabetes may create false positives on the Cushing tests.

With dogs that have several health issues going on at once it is usually beneficial to get the expert skill and knowledge of an IMS.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Lori. It has definitely been an emotional roller coaster since Jenny was diagnosed with diabetes. I'll hope she has no diarrhea and no vomiting tomorrow.

thanks, Judi

[jmac]

Judy,
I live in Bloomington, MN and my dog, Hannah, was diagnosed with Cushing's in March. There are a LOT of internal med vets around (most are probably in the Twin Cities) that you could go to. What city are you in? (Somewhere way north of me, I assume). My vet is in Burnsville and was able to do the Low Dex Suppression test and an abdominal ultrasound at his office (an ultrasound specialist came in). I know there is a website where you can find internal med vets in your area, but I can't find it right now. The U of M would probably be great, but I was just thinking there might be another one in the same area that might be a little cheaper, but have more experience with Cushing's. Good luck to you!
Julie

[frijole]

:D Ask and ye shall receive... from our Resource Section... here is the link. Just type in your state and you will get a list of the IMS vets in the area. Note it might not be 100% up to date but it is a handy tool. In some cases vet schools are less expensive fwiw. I only paid $150 at K State for an ultrasound but paid $400 in Omaha.

Kim


http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Julie & Kim. I'm in Detroit Lakes, MN 1 hour east of Fargo.

None in North Dakota but the Cities may have to happen. I think I will talk to the vet on Tuesday and ask him some more specific questions about which tests he did and plans on doing. He told me he has a lot of experience with Cushings and Diabetes. We'll see

I really appreciate everything.

Her stools were firm this morning so she should be ok till tomorrow.

Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

ok, I spoke to the vet. I am taking Jenny in for a new ACTH test and BG curve tomorrow.

He said her Pre Stim ACTH on Friday was normal and her post stim ACTH on Friday was 26

She hadn't had cheese since her diabetes diagnosis in May and I had to use cheese to make her take the Lysodren but that shouldn't have given her diarrhea.

I know he isn't a specialist but I'll hang with him for another week or so and see what tomorrow brings. Thanks everyone for helping me & Jenny get through the weekend.

[Abby's Mom]

ok, I spoke to the vet. I am taking Jenny in for a new ACTH test and BG curve tomorrow.

He said her Pre Stim ACTH on Friday was normal and her post stim ACTH on Friday was 26

.

Odd, Abby's number's were the same. We sure do have alot in common. Abby also has Diabetes, as I have found you on that site as well.

You and Jenny are in my prayers. Keep us posted.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Jenny went to the vet yesterday for a BG curve and follow up ACHT testing since she was only on the Lysodren for 3 days as she got diarrhea pretty quickly from it.

Her BG was still high but the lowest it has been for her! 300's and 400's vs 400"s and 500's

her pre ACHT test was 2.2, same as last time
her post ACHT test was 4.9 vs. 26 last time

I asked the vet if he was absolutely sure she has Cushings or if it could have been a false positive. He is absolutely sure, he stands by the 26. She had the reaction taking 1/2 pill once a day

He wants to start her on maintenance of 1/4 of a tablet once a week and increase her insulin from 5 units 2x day to 6 units 2x day

I know most of you are skeptical about whether she really has Cushings. I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet. help!

Judi

edited to add: I also asked him if this is the best medicine for her given her reaction. At this time he feels it is. He said if she reacts to it again he'll want to stretch her to every 10 days before trying another medication.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

ok I'm leaning towards asking for another test in 7-10 days with no further medication just in case. sound reasonable?

[Abby's Mom]

Judi,

What I find strange is that he increased Jenny's insulin. From what I read, if Jenny does have Cushings, is that once the Cushings is controlled, then the need for insulin may decrease. Odd that he increased her insulin, if he is set upon her having Cushings??

Don't to add any stress to you already!

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Judi,

What I find strange is that he increased Jenny's insulin. From what I read, if Jenny does have Cushings, is that once the Cushings is controlled, then the need for insulin may decrease. Odd that he increased her insulin, if he is set upon her having Cushings??

Don't to add any stress to you already!

Hi Barb, thanks for all your sympathy, I'm obsessing over this. Since Jenny's BG is still in the high 300's, he wants to raise the insulin but do another curve in a week at which time he'll watch me use my meter so we can start relying on me testing her and not having to take her in so often.

He is 100% certain she has Cushings. I asked him 3 times but with all of her other symptoms and the 26 he is adamant.

I think he is taking tomorrow off but he told me I can choose the day to start the Lysodern and she had 1/2 a pill last Sunday so I may wait and talk to him again next Monday. I'd just as soon not further damage her organs if he is wrong.

thanks again. Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

and we started off the day with a skunk in the doggy area that I didn't notice till the dogs were out!

In the old days Jenny would have smelled it, seen it, and chased it. This morning she just went about her business while her brother went over to taunt the skunk. That was a relief but maybe a sign she is aging.

Thankfully the skunk did NOT spray my babies. But I got a few more gray hairs!! :D

[Abby's Mom]

Don't you feel that if it is not one thing, it is another! Poor Jenny probably has alot on her mind too. Keep us posted, we are cheering you on, and hopefully EVERYONE will feel normal again!:D

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

LOL Thanks Barb. I have to be gone most of the day today so will be testing Jenny's BG tomorrow.

My husband really wants us to listen to the vet so I am still on the fence about whether to give her the Lysodern tomorrow. ugh

hope you and Abby have a great weekend! Jenny has been destroying her stuffed skunk. we really need to get rid of that toy!

[lulusmom]

Hi and a belated welcome to the forum.

I just went through all of your posts and I have a few questions. Exactly what symptoms associated with cushing's does Jenny have and have those symptoms improved since treating with Lysodren?

You mentioned that liver enzymes were high 7 months ago. Have you had bloodwork done since then and if so, can you please post the results of any abnormal values and include the normal reference ranges please. If you don't have more recent bloodwork, can you post the results of the tests done 7 months ago?

A post stim of 26 ug/dl is definitely consistent with cushing's but as others have mentioned, non adrenal illness like diabetes or even stress can cause false positives. However, a dog without cushing's, especially a dog like Jenny whose vet was remiss in a lot of areas, would not have loaded in three days. Firstly, an experienced vet would have counseled you at length about the effects of the drug, how to administer it and how often. Loading doses are given twice a day and your vet should have stressed to you the importance of giving the drug with food. Firstly, the side effect most frequently seen in Lysodren is gastrointestinal upset so giving with food is important. Secondly, you need to give with food to insure absorption into the bloodstream. Absorption is further enhanced if given with a little bit of fatty food. I wrap my dogs pills in a little ball of cream cheese.

So am I skeptical that Jenny has cushing's? Given the woefully inadequate testing your vet did, I would be skeptical; however, I don't believe a normal dog would have been as sensitive to Lysodren as Jenny is. Based on the little information you have posted, I am more skeptical of your vet's experience with cushing's, his understanding of how lysodren works and how it should be administered. Here is a link to Lysodren Loading Instructions and Helpful Hints. Please read carefully so that you will have an understanding of proper protocol and the role that your vet should have played in eliminating undue risk for Jenny.

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181

When was Jenny's last loading dose and when are you starting the maintenance dose? FYI, not all dogs do well on a weekly maintenance dose. Neither one of mine did and as a result both had to be reloaded and put on twice or three times a week maintenance. While multiple weekly doses are optimum, I know that this is difficult to do with the 500mg tablets. If it turns out that the once a week maintenance isn't working, you may want to consider having the Lysodren compounded into smaller doses.

Glynda

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Glynda: thanks so much for the information. I did read about Lysodern loading on here last weekend when I was panicking about Jenny's diarrhea.

I don't have her lab results here at home, they are at work but the Liver phosphates have been off the charts, at least 5 times the normal limit for well over 7 months.

Since she was diagnosed with diabetes in May, she lost 1.5 pounds and now weighs 8 pounds, a good weight for her. I can feel all of her bones when I pet her but she has an enormous pot belly.

She is constantly hungry, her hair is sparse, she had skin infections last year but antibiotics cleared them up.

Vet #1, her vet since birth, never mentioned Cushings. He put her on a hormone when she started being incontinent and the hormone worked.

After her diabetes diagnosis, the vet techs & I all commented about her large pot belly. That is when he suggested we go to the University of Minnesota.

Vet #2, who says he has lots of Cushings and Diabetes experience got her in at the last minute a week ago Friday. He was giving me instructions and telling me what to do at 5:30 pm on a holiday weekend with the pharmacy closing at 6:00. In hindsight we shouldn't have rushed it.

Jenny took half of a pill once a day for three days, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. After listening to the folks here, and reading some of your info, I quit giving her the Lysodern as she had diarrhea on Saturday and Sunday. Both days she had diarrhea once and normal stool once, it was strange.

Monday she was back to normal stool.

Since this time the ACTH test was 4.9 down from 26, he wants me to give her 1/4th of a pill once a week. I asked about the diarrhea and he said if she has side effects we'll go to once every 10 days. I asked about a false positive and he was adamant that he thinks she has Cushings and that the 3 days of medication did the trick.

We had raised her insulin from 4 units twice a day to 5 units twice a day and for the first time ever (in 6 weeks, this was our 5th all day curve), her blood sugars went out of the 400-500's all day to being in the 300-400's.

I think you folks here are definitely thinking I need to take her to a specialist. I'm kind of down on both of my vets right now. I found out they fed Jenny lunch the day she was in for her curve. What kind of sense does that make? She eats at 6am and 6pm every day when she gets her insulin.

So thank you for your reply and I'm sorry this is so long. I think I need to suck it up and get a 3rd opinion. My husband wants me to listen to the vet, do what he says and get to maintenance so we can rein in the expenses. He loves Jenny but he thinks we should listen to the vet.

I'm back to thinking I should not give her any Lysodern without further testing. She is a sweetheart of a dog, I just want her as healthy as she can be and don't want to hurt her

thanks again.

Second guessing, Third guessing, and Fourth guessing myself, Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

well we gave Jenny her 1/4 pill of maintenance dose of Lysodern last night. That makes it exactly 1 week from when she had the drug for her "loading" period.

So far no side effects. I am going to touch base with the vet today or tomorrow to schedule her next BG curve and ACTH test.

Judi

[addy]

Hi Judi,

We will be crossing our fingers the curve and stim go well.

Hugs,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Addy!!

[Abby's Mom]

Good Luck! I have been following you on both forums.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Update on my Jenny:

Glynda was right!

background: Jenny is diabetic and was diagnosed with Cushings after an ACTH test had the post results at 26

She very quickly got diarrhea from the loading dose of the Lysodren which we stopped after 3 days thanks to your support here.

At her ACTH after the loading her post results were 4.9

Since then she has been taking 1/4 of a 500 mg Lysodren once a week and Glynda had warned me that once a week often isn't enough for maintenance.

On the bright side, her Blood Sugar is finally regulated. yay

Last Thursday after 4 weeks of maintenance, massively increased hunger and some incontinence her ACTH post came in at 16.0.

The Vet does not want to "reload" at this time due to her severe reaction the first time. He wants me to try the 1/4 pill twice a week and re-test in 3 weeks.

I asked him about compounding our own dose, he wants to try this first. I am supposed to call him in a week and let him know how she is doing.

Fingers crossed she doesn't have a bad reaction

Judi

[addy]

On the bright side, her Blood Sugar is finally regulated. yay


I think that is terrific news!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D Step one done, now hopefully step two will be to get the cortisol where it needs to be.

Baby steps are sometimes really good!!!!!!:):):):):):)

You are doing a really great job, Judi.

Hopefully someone will stop by with comments on the lysodren.

Sending love and hugs and moral support and also thanks for posting encouragement on my thread.:):):)

Love ya,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Addy, I know we don't want to rush it with these powerful drugs but I feel bad that she is sooo hungry.

Hope things are going better for you!

Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

my groomer just told me that she is not supposed to use clippers on another cushings dog she grooms.

this has not been mentioned to me. I think Jenny has probably had Cushings far longer than I've been aware of it.

Do most of you request scissors only for your Cush dogs?

thanks, Judi

[addy]

Well, Zoe just went to her groomers and they did not scissor her. The groomer continues to use a clipper. Did the groomer tell you why?

We just saw IMS and she mentioned how fluffy Zoe was and I told her was groomed a week ago and she never said, "oh don't use a clipper on her" so this is the first I have heard of it.:confused::confused:

Hugs,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I just picked her up and she was fine. They used the clippers. Glad I didn't just miss something, I think you'd remember if someone here had mentioned it!

thanks again Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

This morning was Jenny's first day of getting a second maintenance dose of Lysodren during the week ( 1/4 of a 500 mg pill)

While home at lunch she had thrown up. Her #2 was normal. I have to work this afternoon but will try to run home and check on her. She was perky and peppy. I'm worried

[addy]

Okay, don't panic yet. Gastric upset is a common side effect. Do you give Pepcid (if she can even have that) or something for her tummy?

Is she acting funny in any other way? This is the second dose for the week, when was the first dose?

Did she have any tummy upset while loading? Is this the first time you are seeing it?

Okay, I am out of questions, others will come along with some more.

Hugs,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Addy. She had throwing up and diarrhea during the loading so we stopped after 3 days. I did put her pill in some cheese which she isn't used to anymore.

I have a call in to my vet. I'll pick some pepcid up and ask him for the amount. I'm thinking it is too soon for a Lysodren reaction. Her other dose was Sunday night.

thanks for all of your support. My husband is out of town so it is just me and the poodles.

Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

the vet thinks I should relax and not give her anything unless she throws up again.

He thinks it is just an upset tummy.

I forgot to closely inspect the vomit to see if the pill was in there.

I need to remember she is doing really well and not to panic.

Judi

[addy]

It is hard not to panic, I know, and you have the added "diabetic situation so I don't blame you for getting worried.

If Zoe is acting off, I have a hard time leaving for work even when hubby is still home with her. (There is that control issue of mine again:rolleyes:)

I am glad you heard back from your vet.:):):) If you get scared again, post, someone is always around.

Hugs,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I ran into someone encouraging at lunch today. Her dog is 17 years old and has been taking Lysodren for Cushings for the last 6 years!

She said the first 2 years were up and down getting him regulated but he is 12 pounds and takes 1/4 of a pill daily and they won't do any more testing due to his advanced age.

wow.

[Squirt's Mom]

See, these really are life-saving drugs....and there is always hope! :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Wow, isn't that wonderful to hear? I too heard good news from my nephew. His friend has a Cush pup and is being treated and is doing very well. He did not know which drug but I was glad to hear the news none the less.

I hope that gives others encouragement to put that two year bull doody to rest!!!!!!!!!

I hope you are doing well and Jenny is doing well too.

Love,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

well Jenny is in her 2nd week (I think) of increasing her maintenance Lysodren without reloading her since she has been so sensitive to it.

So far so good as far as no side effects but I don't think it is working. She is so hungry. We get the next ACTH next Thursday. If her levels are still high do you think he'll just want to up the dose or reload?

She had been taking 1/4 pill once a week. Now it is twice a week. Her last post # on the ACTH was 16.

I know I need to be patient and quit obsessing. She is perky and her water consumption has gone back to normal. She is just starving and when I hold her she feels fragile to me.

[StarDeb55]

I have not posted to you before, but have been following Jenny's story. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but with the last post stim being 16, it is highly unlikely that an increase in the maintenance dose will bring Jenny's numbers down significantly. I'm afraid you are facing a reload.

Debbie

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I have not posted to you before, but have been following Jenny's story. I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but with the last post stim being 16, it is highly unlikely that an increase in the maintenance dose will bring Jenny's numbers down significantly. I'm afraid you are facing a reload.

Debbie
Thanks Debbie. That is kind of what I'm suspecting. If my vet doesn't agree I'll probably bite the bullet and find a specialist down in the cities. She did so well for awhile.

She is such a sweetheart and she is starving. I feel awful

[StarDeb55]

I'll tell you what happened with my little Harley the first time I loaded him. His water consumption took a pretty good drop, so I stopped the lysodren, got his stim, the post came back at about 12. All of his symptoms had resolved at that point, so the IMS was willing to take the 12. I had already treated one cushpup, so I knew that 12 seemed pretty high to be acceptable. The IMS insisted it would be ok. I had already joined this group, & the wonderful folks here kept telling me that there was no way that a post of 12 was going to hold. They were right. Within 2 weeks, Harley was drinking gallons, & peeing buckets, again. I insisted that the IMS had to see him, & by the time I got him in for another stim, his post was, now, over 20. Needless to say, I had to reload. This incident, along with a couple of other things, is what caused me to part ways with this IMS. I had had a lot of faith in her as she had managed my first boy's Cushings the last 2 years of his life, & did a great job, that's why I took Harley back to her. It just goes to show that not all vets, even specialists are created equal.

Debbie

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

That is something that a tried and true specialist messed up that way after she helped you with your other baby. I know we are all human but changing vets like I already have, I'm learning how to deal with the egos of the vets involved.

I appreciate your feedback. I know I've mostly ignored the good advice I've been given around here but it has definitely been my plan B.

I just wanted to give the local guy a chance. He is very confident and Jenny's blood sugar did finally get where we want it to be.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

wish us luck, Jenny goes for her ACTH tomorrow and if this vet doesn't recommend re-loading we will find a specialist in Minneapolis.

She is still feeling crummy 80% of the time. She has been reverse sneezing almost every night. That usually happens when she is excited but she hasn't been playing. And her back legs were shaky for the first time yesterday.

big sigh. Hopefully we can get the lab results on Friday.

Judi

[lulusmom]

Good luck, Judi!

[Squirt's Mom]

Hoping for good results and cooperation! Let us know what you learn!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Sending love and hugs for you both and hoping everything turns out okay.

Thoughts are with you so you won't be alone at the vets. The waiting room will be crowded with all of us:D:D:D

Love,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

OK, Jenny's post # was 19, it had been 16 3 weeks ago when we switched her to 2x a week 1/4 of a pill.

He is trying to be conservative with her because she was so sensitive to the Lysodren on her initial loading.

Since it is a holiday weekend he wants me to give her 1/4 of a pill every other day, talk to him Tuesday to see if her water consumption has decreased and if not, go to 1/4 of a pill every day doing another ACTH next Friday.

I know that the protocol says to give the pill more often than once a day but her dosage is so low I don't dare cut them smaller. So, we'll see if she can get loaded this way without diarrhea.

Judi

[addy]

Hi Judi,

Sometimes when we have sensitive dogs maybe not following protocol is okay. When Zoe's IMS first discussed Lysodren with me she was not going to follow protocol either.:confused::confused: I hope this change will work for Jenny. I remember Marie had a lysodren dose change with her Maddie and she thought it would not bring her numbers down as it was not a mini load but it did, so you never know.:):)

I have similar issues with Zoe and her colitis. It is a balancing act and sometimes that just makes it harder to follow protocol. I am sure others will stop by and tell you their experiences.

Hang in there. I think you are doing an amazing job. Having Cushings and Diabetes is not always easy and you have been cool and calm. Jenny is a lucky little poodle to have you for a mom.

Love,
Addy

[jmac]

Judi,
Where are you located again? I am in Bloomington and know of a good IMS that my vet referred me to. They have two locations-Blaine and Eden Prairie. There is also the U of M, of course, but my vet warned me that it would take a LOT of time to go there (to plan a full day) because of the fact that it is a teaching hospital (so you will see lots of different people in the same visit). Those were his two recommendations of who would be good to go to.

I'm hoping things will improve for Jenny. Good luck!

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Julie: I was going to go dig out your name if this doesn't work and get a name from you. I'm in Detroit Lakes and am taking Jenny to a vet in Fargo.

He seems very knowledgeable and I appreciate him not wanting to rush things since Jenny reacted so quickly to the 1/2 a pill per day loading dose the first time but it is frustrating that we are almost back where we started.

I may be pm'ing you for a referral next Friday if Jenny hasn't improved. Thank you, Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Judi,

Sometimes when we have sensitive dogs maybe not following protocol is okay. When Zoe's IMS first discussed Lysodren with me she was not going to follow protocol either.:confused::confused: I hope this change will work for Jenny. I remember Marie had a lysodren dose change with her Maddie and she thought it would not bring her numbers down as it was not a mini load but it did, so you never know.:):)

I have similar issues with Zoe and her colitis. It is a balancing act and sometimes that just makes it harder to follow protocol. I am sure others will stop by and tell you their experiences.

Hang in there. I think you are doing an amazing job. Having Cushings and Diabetes is not always easy and you have been cool and calm. Jenny is a lucky little poodle to have you for a mom.

Love,
Addy

You really lift me up when I know I've stubbornly ignored most of the advice that has been so generously offered here. Thank you so very much Addy, especially because I know you have your own worries. It means a lot since all I do is second guess myself.

xoxo, Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

and p.s. I am so dragging today. Jenny chugged a ton of water right before bed so anytime she moved last night we were up and out! no sleep but no accidents! yay:)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I'm sorry I'm posting a lot today. These are the worst Jenny's Cushings symptoms have ever been. Since she is diabetic, we no longer leave dry food out that she can munch on.

At supper when I was getting their food ready, she and my other dog Ranger, growled, snapped and nipped at each other and then she barked at me until I served her.

She is 11 and he is 8 and they have never had a snapping fight before.

I hate it that she is so hungry. Do you all just harden yourselves till it gets under control again?

Judi

[Harley PoMMom]

Since Jenny is diabetic I am assuming that there are some things she shouldn't have but was wondering if frozen green beans could be a good choice for her???

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Since Jenny is diabetic I am assuming that there are some things she shouldn't have but was wondering if frozen green beans could be a good choice for her???

you know they might. I forgot, she was willing to eat red pepper too! Thank you, I have been so frazzled this is an excellent suggestion.

Judi

[addy]

Hi Judi,

Our IMS also said they can eat ice cubes (if Jenny likes them). I understand your frustration with Jenny's numbers I was feeling like that myself a few weeks ago.

Hang in there, hope the green beans are helping.

Hugs,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Judi,

Our IMS also said they can eat ice cubes (if Jenny likes them). I understand your frustration with Jenny's numbers I was feeling like that myself a few weeks ago.

Hang in there, hope the green beans are helping.

Hugs,
Addy

Thanks Addy, I know you've been struggling with Addy too. The green beans and peppers helped a lot!

Jenny's eyesight took a serious turn for the worse this weekend so they might have been fighting because she was insecure about that too.

We've upped the Lysodren to daily now for the loading but he still wants to go slow so we don't over do it. How can I argue with that? I'm supposed to call him on Thursday to see if it is time for the ACTH or if we need to wait till Monday. She is still chugging water and scarfing her food.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Today will be day 6 of Jenny's 1/4 of a pill daily "re-loading" of Lysodren. She is still consuming as much water as ever but I thought she slowed down a teeny bit when inhaling her food this morning.

She still licked the plate and made sure my other dog didn't leave anything.

No diarrhea, no vomiting. So, depending on how the evening meal goes she will most likely get today's pill too. I check in with the vet tomorrow.

She is totally blind now from her diabetes cataracts so with any behavior change I'm trying to figure out if it is adjusting to the blindness, the Lysodren, has her blood sugar dropped or has she had a stroke?

I'm awful at home blood testing. Tried again this morning and she snapped at me and wet herself. I will do it tonight. I need to know.

About a month ago her Cushings and Diabetes were both under control and she was just her happy playful self. She is still trying to chase squirrels and has her moments but she gets turned around in the house due to the newness of being blind.

ok rambling over. I sure hope the next ACTH shows results

Judi

[addy]

Hi Judi,

It is hard to know sometimes as they deal with a new loss be it hearing or sight. Is it that or a treatment side effect, something else? Leslie had posted for Carrol's Sparky some really good websites and information on how to help them adjust in the house and yard after losing their sight. I am sure she will stop by and give you input. It is harder on us usually, than it is on them, they adapt and we feel badly for them. When Zoe's IMS told me to dangle Zoe's leash in front of her to cue her to go outside since she could not hear me I just looked at her blankly and fought back tears.

I'm sorry you have your hands full with the home testing for Jenny's diabetes as well. I am sending positive vibes and support that you get a break and I hope it is on the ACTH test. Maybe then her diabetes will go back in control.

Babble and ramble all you want. It helps:):):):)

Love,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Addy, I've only been seeing what I want to see on your Zoe thread. I'm sorry her hearing really is worse poor girl.

They are so dependent on us, it is just hard to watch them get older and more frail.

thanks, Judi

[addy]

Her hearing comes and goes. The incident I referred to is when it was worse.

It is hard for us to watch them get older; they are our perpetual children. Children are not supposed to get old and sick. And Cushings is such a roller coaster of good days then bad days.

I caved in to my Bunny Tracks ice cream:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: But shhhhhh, don't tell Marie and Susan;););););)

Sending a wish and a prayer for Jenny to have some good days real soon.

Love,
Addy

[jmac]

Hi Judi,

Just wanted to let you know I hope Jenny shows some improvement soon. I'm sure it is so hard when there is so much to deal with/wonder about (eyesight, diabetes, Cushing's, etc.). I'm glad to hear she is doing okay, and hope you'll see some improvement soon.

I am going crazy trying to control Hannah's allergies. She is scratching and licking and biting like a lunatic. I can't believe I am looking forward to cold weather so the allergies subside! She also is losing her hearing and eyesight and I am always wondering if it is some new problem or just age.

Keep us posted on how your little girl is doing!

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Julie!

It has been such a bad year for allergies with these poor dogs. I don't know how my sister handles it in South Carolina. She has 3.

I hope Hannah's hearing and eyesight hang on as long as possible. I think Jenny will be OK eventually, we are just learning our way. I've been reading a lot of people's experiences.

hugs to you & poor itchy Hannah

Judi

[jmac]

Hi again Judi-
My parents adopted a one-eyed, blind dog (he is blind in the "good" one) and he does amazingly well. He obviously didn't even know the layout of the house at all, and someone taught him "STOP" in an urgent voice if he is going to run into something. My parents have taught him "Step" to know that there are stairs, and "Up" to know he can jump up on the couch, chair, etc. He is such a happy little guy. He has no idea he is missing anything. He gets around their house great-steps and all. I'm sure Jenny will be totally fine. :)

-Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Julie, That is encouraging! She loves hanging on the couch by the window and has been afraid to jump up on it. I'm going to practice the "up"

My husband and I are trying to use the same words. thanks!

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

spoke to vet. one visit away from consulting a specialist I think.

recap: When Jenny was diagnosed we did 1/2 500 mg pill of Lysodren daily (in one dose) and she loaded in 3 days. Her post ACTH test went from 26 to 4.9

After that she was put on 1/4 pill weekly and her levels went back up. I was cautioned here that the weekly dosing has not been effective for maintenance.

Since last Monday she has been on 1/4 pill daily trying to re-load. We are going to do another ACTH this Friday and talk when we get those results. The vet is concerned it is a tumor, she has never had an ultrasound done. He thinks if the cortisol is trying to reproduce it will be harder to treat. I didn't tell him that my internet advisors had warned me a weekly dosing might not work.

So, I'm to continue the daily dose keeping a very close eye on my girl. Any change and I stop and call him. We'll see what the results are and what he wants to do and then I'll see if I need to drive down to Minneapolis with her. I'm really hoping we can work this out with him. I like him, he is confident. Jenny likes him and now that she is blind I'd like to not switch vets again if we don't have to.

Fingers crossed.

Judi

[lulusmom]

Hi Judi,

It's been a while since I've had a chance to get caught up with you and Jenny so I just reread your thread to refresh my memory. I must tell you that my concerns about your vet have not lessened since the first time I posted. Controlling the diabetes is contingent upon controlling the cushing's and it appears your vet has not been able to accomplish this. That is not to say that he isn't a fantastic gp vet, it's just that gp vets do not have the extensive education or vast experience of an internal medicine specialist (IMS). Cushing's and diabetes are serious endocrine disorders by themselves but together they present a challenge to even the most brilliant IMS. It looks like Jenny's adrenals have continued to regenerate and cortisol continues to rise. If you are open to a consulting with a specialist, now would be a good time to get a referral from your vet.

Glynda

P.S. I forgot to ask why Jenny is on Diethylstribestrol (DES). If it is for incontinence, did your vet rule out diabetes and cushing's as being the cause before prescribing DES. Is she still getting it every 4 days?

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Glynda: I think you are right. this is my 2nd vet. My 1st vet prescribed the DES back in January before the diabetes. When I googled i saw references to Cushings but was so happy the hormone stopped her incontinence I went into denial.

She is still taking it every 4 days. She has accidents if she doesn't. My current vet, #2, is hopeful we can stop the hormone once the other 2 things are under control.

Jenny's diabetes is good. Her levels are solidly in the 120-180 range. It just took so long to regulate her that the cataracts came on quickly.

Could be my fault because I didn't go to a specialist right away. We slowly moved up the ladder from 1 unit to the current 7 and by the time I brought up Cushings and got her tested it had been about 6 weeks at blood sugar levels in the 500's or 600's so I'll never know for sure how much I am to blame.

I'm going to ask for copies of the records and a referral on Friday when we go in for her ACTH. I know you are right, this guy has been very convincing up till now. So, I'll kick myself for a long time but the focus right now has to be getting her on a proper maintenance dose of something for Cushings.

I really appreciate your input even though I haven't jumped right on it.

thank you, Judi

[addy]

Hoping everything goes okay. You have been a good mom to Jenny and never think you are to blame for anything. We all make the best choices we can in the time frame we can. Maybe sometimes, despite our best efforts, our pups will develop other issues or side effects.

Judi, you are doing a unbelievable job with so much thrown at you. Jenny loves you and knows having you in her corner is the best option she could possibly have ever hoped for.

Sending positive thoughts and encouraging words that Jenny's cortisol will get under control and you get a bit of a breather to regroup.

Love and hugs,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Addy. I'm a bit of a wreck. Fingers crossed for Friday's test. I won't get the results till Monday.

Still no side effects from the Lysodren. She paused a tiny bit while eating this morning and didn't bark at me while I prepared the food so I'll decide on tonight's dose based on how she eats her supper. I've screwed up so much with her Cushings treatment I'm terrified of giving her too much and terrified of giving her too little.

She is loving her frozen vegetables though. I'm sure ice would be good too.

hugs to you and Zoe, Judi

[lulusmom]

Hi Judy,

If you think you screwed up, then you are in some very good company. Most of us here have uttered the same words. It's not like our dogs have a boo boo that we can see and understand. If that were the case, we wouldn't need each other so much and I doubt many of us would be here. Cushing's is a very difficult disease to wrap your head around, even for vets, so give yourself a break and a lot of credit for reaching out and for your willingness to learn. You got a double whammy having to deal with DM too so give yourself even more credit. Jenny is a lucky pooch to have you for a mom and there is no doubt in my mind that others know it and Jenny most certainly knows it. Sometimes we are the last ones to know these things because we are too busy beating ourselves up. :D

I was very happy to read that Jenny's diabetes is well controlled. That usually doesn't happen if cortisol is too high so congratulations. Hopefully, the increase in maintenance dose has dropped cortisol enough to maintain control of the diabetes. With the the recent daily dosing of Lysodren, make sure you keep a close eye on Jenny for signs of hypoglycemia (low blood glucose). As a prior member mentioned, once cortisol is brought down, a dog may require less insulin. As I recall you increased Jenny's insulin a few months back. Your vet should have instructed you to be very vigilant in watching Jenny for signs of low cortisol as well as low bg. It can be a slippery slope because low cortisol can cause vomiting and diarrhea which can bring on a hypoglycemia episode due to dehydration. Are you doing home testing?

We'll be keeping fingers and paws crossed that Jenny has a good acth stim result.

Glynda

[addy]

Sweetie, you have not screwed up anything. Really.

We are all here for you.

Love,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Glynda and Addy, we are watching her for signs of low blood sugar. Whenever she is at the vet I have them test her blood sugar and I managed to get a reading from her over the weekend.

I've been a wimp about the blood testing but am trying to buckle down for just the reasons you mentioned Glynda. I really thought we'd need to decrease her insulin the last time we got her cortisol lowered, but we didn't.

Thanks again to both of you for the kind words and thoughts.

Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

ok, no Lysodren tonight. I just got home and there was a tiny bit of spit up in her dog bed. This is what happened on day 2 the first time and I thought it wasn't significant sending her into runny diarrhea when I gave her a 3rd dose.

no thanks. I'll call the vet tomorrow. He thought at this smaller dose it should take twice as long as the first time. It has been 7 days.

Judi

[lulusmom]

For what it's worth, I agree with your decision. Good job!

[addy]

Me too!!! On a side note- the Boundary Waters wildfires are sending smoke all the way down to Milwaukee today. Whenever I go outside I can smell the fires and the sky is gray from smoke. It is a weird feeling to think fires so far away can have an impact on me.

But then I think about my family in MN- you and Jenny- and I think how it really is not that far away after all. And the odd thing is, you are there going through this rough patch with Jenny and I can smell the smoke of the fires in your state and I feel even closer to you.

I think about all of us now, all of us here, brought together by this common bond, this love for our dogs and this fight we fight aganst this horrible disease and our own fires we fight together without boundaries, for Cushings has none so our boundaries melt and move and become nonexistant from state to state, country to country, person to person.

Hugs and love and prayers for tomorrow. I am so glad and proud to know you.

Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

You are a very special person Addy. I really appreciate you.

We are 4 hours SW of the fires and cannot smell them but you can, it is odd.

Hoping for another good day for your Zoe.

love, Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I need opinions on whether to go with what my vet is suggesting for the weekend or not.

Jenny had her ACTH today but we won't get the results till Tuesday (the vet is out of town Monday). He did an ultrasound and she does have a tumor on her right adrenal. Her left adrenal is normal but the right is enlarged and one end of it is larger than the other. I didn't write the numbers down as I was holding her.

He is very concerned about not wanting to give her too much Lysodren when we don't know where she is at right now but with the tumor, we don't want her to go 10 days without anything. She hasn't had anything since Tuesday or Wednesday when I stopped the loading after she threw up.

He suggested I give her the 1/4 pill for two days, take a day off, then do it again till Tuesday when I speak to him.

Here is the confusing part. He also wants me to give her 1/4 pill DAILY of prednisone till Tuesday. His theory is that we continue to medicate the tumor but give the prednisone to ensure her cortisol doesn't go too low till we have her actual results.

He is going to do more research about switching to Trilostane for a tumor but told me he hasn't seen anything regarding that right now. I told him I would gladly take her to a specialist at this point. He said he has a specialist he can talk to or refer me to if that is what I want.

At this point, I doubt if we'll pursue surgery for Jenny's tumor but I would like to see a specialist. My biggest concern is getting through the weekend. I really want to give her something since we just did the loading and I don't want her levels to rise again.

You all have more experience. What would you do? Lysodren and prednisone? nothing?

Her blood sugar levels are fine. He acted very grave and said every dog is different and he hopes we can get her back to herself but it just hit me hard. She is 11 1/2. I need to read more on here tonight and I will but I'm lost and emotional.

thanks, Judi

[frijole]

I'll give you my 2 cents:) Don't give anything. All of us had to wait for results and it should only be two days. But make sure to call their office to get results in case they forget to call you. Who cares if the vet is out of town on Monday... the office can give you results! No way I'd wait... It sounds like your vet isn't too familiar with lysodren or is maybe cautious due to the diabetes... To be honest... regardless, when you have both cushings and diabetes it is delicate and I think you'd be better off with a specialist if there is a good one nearby. I'd definitely go there before making a switch.

I've never been a fan of mixing prednisone and lysodren.. it makes it impossible to tell if the dog goes too low...

Kim

[Harley PoMMom]

I agree with Kim. If it were me, I would not give any Lysodren until the ACTH stim results are known.

Many Cushing experts state that giving prednisone with Lysodren is not a good idea. The prednisone can mask the signs of a dog that could be loaded.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Kim & Lori. It just seemed counterproductive to me to give both. I'll hold off and see if they will tell me her results on Monday.

Appreciate you telling it like it is.

Judi

[Harley PoMMom]

Judi, please know we are here for you, ok? ;):)

Sending loving and huge hugs, Lori

[jmac]

Hi Judi-
I just want you to know I am thinking of you and Jenny too. I am so sorry to hear you are having a tough time. I think you got good advice to just wait. Give her some love this weekend and try as hard as you can to just enjoy that time. Again, if you want a recommendation, the IM I saw in the cities was great. We're all here for you whenever you need to vent. I know the up and down roller coaster feeling. It's so tough. The people on here are what help keep me going.

Good luck to you and Jenny! Take care!

Julie & Hannah

P.S. I can't smell the fire here at all, but the moon sure looked blurry the other night. I was surprised to hear they could smell it in Milwaukee. My husband is from WI and is a huge Brewers fan so he was surprised too.

[jmac]

Hi Judi-
Just wanted to check in and see how your girl is doing. Hope things are going okay!

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks for asking Julie. I hope the cooler weather is helping Hannah also.

I just got off the phone with my vet. Jenny's last ACTH had a post # of 5.5 but given how the Lysodren upsets her tummy he wants to switch to Trilostane which he has never worked with.

I asked him for a referral to a specialist and he said he works with the U and with Blue Pearl. Since he will still be the primary contact I asked him who he'd prefer and he said the U. So, he is calling down there now to get me a referral. I told him with all of the quirks different medications have, I'd rather Jenny have someone advising her who has experience with the drug and the possible different tests needed.

So, wish us luck. We are going to give her Lysodren every other day until I can get in. I asked him about the wash out period needed to switch and he was unaware of that.

He did say that her tumor was 7 mm in diameter and there was no evidence it had spread to her liver. so that is good news.

Hope everyone is doing well. Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Judi, please know we are here for you, ok? ;):)

Sending loving and huge hugs, Lori

thanks, it means a lot

[frijole]

Wow.. you are almost loaded and he wants to switch drugs? I would go to the IMS and let the new vet make that decision. Absolutely there is a wash out period... I'm struggling to remember the exact number but I'm thinking 45 days at least... it isn't as easy as just switching.

I think given the fact you are also dealing with diabetes, an IMS is an excellent idea. It isn't easy to deal with both and a specialist will certainly have greater experience.

Again - my two cents... don't make any decisions about changing until you visit with the IMS. Hugs, Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Kim. We are continuing the Lysodren every other day until I see the specialist. He was just concerned because she has thrown up taking it. I definitely have some questions for a specialist.

This vet has been very up front that he has zero experience with Trilostane but has been researching it. I told him we can probably both learn by putting a specialist with loads of experience into the mix.

He also said he was reading that you start at 1 dose per day but I had read on here that the drug doesn't last that long and that 2 doses per day are preferable.

So, hopefully I'll get in next week to see the specialist. Thanks again for everything.

Now if my little puker can just hold things down till we get in to see the specialist!

[Abby's Mom]

Hi Judi,

Catching you over here as well as the K9Diabetes forum. Just wanted to share with what I knew when I did some research on Abby, and she was taking Trilostane and that is it is most beneficial for the dosage to coordinate with the insulin. So if insulin is given 2x a day, a lower dosage of the Trilostane should also be given 2x a day. I think due to the fact that Jenny is diabetic is the reasoning behind this. Something to question, as I did my vet.

At first my vet did not see the need, but then when I asked if she treated a dog with Cushings AND Diabetes she said no.

I hope everything is going well. Look for your posts in both places :)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Judi,

Catching you over here as well as the K9Diabetes forum. Just wanted to share with what I knew when I did some research on Abby, and she was taking Trilostane and that is it is most beneficial for the dosage to coordinate with the insulin. So if insulin is given 2x a day, a lower dosage of the Trilostane should also be given 2x a day. I think due to the fact that Jenny is diabetic is the reasoning behind this. Something to question, as I did my vet.

At first my vet did not see the need, but then when I asked if she treated a dog with Cushings AND Diabetes she said no.

I hope everything is going well. Look for your posts in both places :)
Thanks Barb that is a really good point! I am hoping I can get her in next week sometime.

Sounds like Abby is feeling better too. I hope you and I never have another summer like this one.

hugs, Judi

[lulusmom]

Hi Judi,

I just wanted to stop in to reinforce what Barbara has already mentioned regarding twice daily dosing. Vetoryl manufacturer, Dechra, recently released "An Update on the Use of Trilostane", by Dr. Ellen Behrend, in their resources section of their website. If you read through the paper, you will see that twice daily dosing is absolutely recommended for diabetic dogs. Your vet can find the same article at http://www.dechra-us.com/Resources/case-studies.aspx

Glynda

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thank you for that link Glynda. Very much.

My vet consulted with a specialist at the University of Minnesota. Down there half use Trilostane and half use Lysodren for Cush dogs with adrenal tumors.

Then only do a 1 week "wash out" period when switching.

The specialist was willing to meet with me but she had all of Jenny's records and my vet contacted her 3 different times to ask her all of my questions so for now we are not going to make the trip.

Jenny is currently on 2 days on, 1 day off of Lysodren. She is feeling great. Playful, happy, her blood sugar is good, and she is adapting to being blind.

So for now we are not going to change anything. If she gets sick I am to call and we will do an ACTH in 2 months as long as she stays in good shape.

This is a huge relief to me as I was dreading changing when she feels so good.

Thank you all for the information and support. This has been so emotionally draining.

[addy]

Hi Judi,

I am so happy Jenny is feeling better and I hope she has two months of feeling good so you can relax a bit. Try to do something for yourself, something you usually enjoy and put Cushings in the drawer for a bit.

I have heard a glass of Chocovino while taking a bubble bath works wonders to restore the spirit;) I tried a new hairdo and that worked until it all grew out again:rolleyes:



Love ya,
Addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Average price of Lysodren?

We refilled Jenny's Lysodren for the first time ever today and I am very grateful she is a small dog on a small dose. At Walmart 30 pills were $160. If she stays on her current dose, which is a crap shoot, it will last 6 months so that really isn't too bad. Just wondered if this is ridiculously high and if I should call around?

thanks! Judi

[Harley PoMMom]

I believe if you get Lysodren compounded (Mitotane) it would be cheaper.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I believe if you get Lysodren compounded (Mitotane) it would be cheaper.

thanks for the tip! I had seen several posts about getting Trilostane compounded but hadn't noticed the Lysodren. Probably tunnel vision on my part. We will definitely go that route if she is still on Lysodren next time.

[Casey's Mom]

I pay $75 for 12 Lysodren pills for my Casey which lasts two months. I believe you are getting a good price. My price includes the 13% tax on our pet meds now thanks to the Ontario government.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I pay $75 for 12 Lysodren pills for my Casey which lasts two months. I believe you are getting a good price. My price includes the 13% tax on our pet meds now thanks to the Ontario government.

13% ouch! Will the compounding company work with you in Canada? That is expensive

[Cyn719]

Judi

praying for jenny and hope all goes well with the meds!!

Xo

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Judi

praying for jenny and hope all goes well with the meds!!

Xo

Thanks Cindy, Jenny is hanging in there. I am following your updates on Penny but don't want to clog up your thread since I have no helpful advice Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Update on Jenny: jenny's blood sugar went scary low on 11/2. She is a diabetic 8 pound poodle who, up till now, needed 7 units twice a day of insulin to maintain.

She is currently doing 2 days on, 1 day off of 125 mg of Lysodren for maintenance. No upset bowels, not listless, playful even. Last night my other dog finished his supper before she did which is a first.

Natalie, from the diabetes forum, suggested that Jenny's cortisol might be getting low. I finally talked the vet into an ACTH ahead of schedule on Monday the 21st. Right now she is on 3 units of insulin and is running a little high for BG's but we are working on it.

Since she isn't showing any symptoms (other than maybe eating a tiny bit slower?), I was going to continue with our current Lysodren regimen.

If you think I have already screwed up and need to stop it immediately, please tell me. I value your judgement and experience as I do the folks on the diabetes forum.

Jenny wanted to wrestle with my husband last night. So, she is happy and getting more used to being blind.

thanks, Judi

[Squirt's Mom]

Hi Judy,

I am always hesitant to post on threads of a diabetic baby because I know so very little about it. :o But I did want to say that wanting to wrestle and taking longer to eat her meal sound like a good thing to me as far as the Cushing's end of things go. Moving up the ACTH is a good idea tho just to see if that is having a bearing on her BG - it is my understanding that as the cortisol comes under better control the pup often needs less insulin/is better regulated.

Hoping things have settled down a bit with the BG and you are able to enjoy her as Jenny starts to enjoy her new dark world. ;)

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Leslie, I am so dense when Jenny's back legs started trembling I thought Cushings, her blood sugar was 66 that morning, yikes!

I've been trying to re-read for symptoms of low cortisol but I am just hopeful that her body is settling into a routine now. thanks for the reply, Monday isn't too far away so we will just stay the course!

hugs, Judi

[jmac]

Hi Judi-

Glad to hear Jenny "lost the race" eating last night. ;) I'm also happy to hear she has adjusted to being blind. That's great that she wanted to wrestle!:D

I hope she will continue to do well and you don't have any other scary moments!

Take care,
Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Julie, it has been nice to get off the roller coaster. I hope Hannah is continuing to improve too

Judi

[addy]

Hi Judy,

May roller coasters turn into lazy river rides for you and Jenny:D:D:D

hugs and love,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Quick update on Jenny. Her metabolism changed and her blood sugar is now stable on 3.25 units of insulin twice a day vs. the 7 units it previously took. wow.

We just did a maintenance check up ACTH and her pre was 2.6 and the post was 4.7.

I can't find where I wrote down her last test results but the vet said as long as both #'s are under 5 he is happy. Jenny is feeling good so we are staying the course.

Hope everyone has a wonderful holiday! Judi

Edited: I found where I had recorded her "post" #'s. On 9/1 it was 19, we increased her lysodren and on 9/15 it was 5.5. So 4.7 works for me

[Squirt's Mom]

This is wonderful, Jenny! Sounds like things are finally getting where they need to be and I hope it continues!

Hugs,
Leslie and the gang

[addy]

Hurray Judi!!!!!

Happy Days!!!!!!:):):):):):)

What wonderful news about Jenny.

I am shouting such a loud yahooooooo I bet you can hear it all the way to Minnesota;);)

love and hugs,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Leslie and Addy, it was such a relief to get these results. After we do her blood work in January he thinks she may finally be up to getting her teeth cleaned!

(me taking her in for a teeth cleaning in May and mentioning incontinence was the diabetes diagnosis and the beginning of the health changes for Jenny).

[jmac]

That's great! Congratulations! I am so glad you and Jenny are doing well!

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Julie, it is a relief! I hope you have your 2 healthy dogs for the holidays as well

[addy]

Hi Judi!!!!
Stopping in to wish you a Merry Christmas and I hope sweet Jenny is well.

Is it cold in MN? We have had no measureable snow fall in Milwaukee and the grass is not even completely dormant. It is unbelievable. :D:D


hugs,
addy

[jmac]

Thanks for stopping by to check on Hannah! How is Jenny doing these days? I hope since we haven't heard for awhile that she is still doing well!

Take care and stay warm up there!

Julie & Hannah

[addy]

Me too, I am wondering about you and Jenny. I hope everything is quiet on the home front.:D:D:D

hugs,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks for asking you two. when you both have much more important worries with your babies. Cushings wise Jenny is ok. Her ACTH in December was good.

She is now picky about her dog food which has her blood sugar all over the place again. She'll eat so I'm not worried about her cortisol. She would just rather live on cheese and liver treats apparently.

Now that winter is finally here she is wearing her dog snuggie she got for Christmas and a sweater. That's how I know she is more frail. She used to dive into snow banks and bury her head. Older dog, even a Minnesota older dog isn't that crazy! thanks for asking, Judi

[addy]

Geez Judi, page seven!!!!!!

I have to fix that one. Hi how are you? How is Jenny? I hope you are both doing well. I see you post but not here.:confused: Thank you for your support on my thread.:confused:

Judi, I also wanted to ask, on Zoe's blood work they have her glucose but it was not fasting since she had breakfast with trilostane.

Does that mean anything? It was normal.

hugs and love,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Geez Judi, page seven!!!!!!

I have to fix that one. Hi how are you? How is Jenny? I hope you are both doing well. I see you post but not here.:confused: Thank you for your support on my thread.:confused:

Judi, I also wanted to ask, on Zoe's blood work they have her glucose but it was not fasting since she had breakfast with trilostane.

Does that mean anything? It was normal.

hugs and love,
addy

Normal is good! :) what # was it? Just like humans their blood glucose can increase after food but as long as it is within range she is good. (nice of her to keep her problems to her tummy and skin for you)

you are so nice to ask about my Jenny. Her diabetes is giving us fits with lots of lows and massively reduced insulin dosage. Haven't done an ACTH since December but I will after tax season. I think her cushings is ok. Appetite is still normal. No upset tummy. Her back legs have been shaky but my husband said it is because it is windy and COLD (her blood sugar was high so that wouldn't be it)

I immediately assume diabetes or cushings. cold wind, who'd have thunk it?

I've been reading to keep up but don't know enough about Cushings to add. Hope your Mom is doing better. hugs, Judi

[Cyn719]

Judi

Hope it warms up for Jenny so her little legs don't shake:). A little cold here today ...... Very windy! Penny came in and her toes and ears were sooooo cold.....brrrrrr!

Hugs xoxo

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

hi: Jenny is no longer consumed by food which is a good thing but now she is getting picky. I've also noticed she is achy when she gets up from sleeping, she is almost 12 and I know you've all mentioned that as cortisol levels decrease they can feel arthritis easier.

In September she had and ACTH, I only got the post #, it was 5.5
On 12/12/2011 she had another, pre was 2.6, post was 4.7. We've been doing 2 days on 1 day off of 1/4 of a pill since September.

She ate when I hand fed her scrambled eggs this morning and last night, she only ate about 1/3 of her kibble but scarfed her peanut butter I was using to distract her from her insulin shot.

She is hating the insulin shot with a passion and knows it comes after she eats so I really think she isn't eating much because she knows what will follow.

She is still perky, no diarrhea or vomiting. If she were your dog would you take her in for an ACTH now or give it another week or so? She really really hates her shots right now. Snapping, drawing blood growling hates her shots. Thanks, Judi

[Harley PoMMom]

If it were me, I would have an ACTH stim test done just so too low cortisol could be ruled out as the reason for her pickiness of food.

Sending huge hugs and love, Lori

[addy]

Hi Judi,

Another stim might be a good idea, as Lori suggested. Sorry to hear Jenny is getting picky. Lysodren can cause gastro problems as you know.

Maybe it is just about the shot. They are so good at remembering things and association.

Someone was telling me a story about their dog. She was trained to go to a pee pad near the door and ring the bell to urinate. Mom trained the pup so well with treats that the pup kept running and ringing the bell and straining to produce some pee so she would get a treat!!!:rolleyes:;):D

Love and hugs,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Lori and Addy LOL on the bell.

At lunch her blood sugar was 40 so she chowed some blue buffalo kibble right down. (because it is not good for her and makes her blood sugar sky rocket). I am still going to call her vet and make an appointment.

I appreciate the opinions. Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

so my vet takes Friday afternoons off. I shot him an email he will get on Monday. Since she ate willingly at lunch I'm thinking I'll go ahead and give her her Lysodren tonight. (last night was her no lysodren night)

Every time I question myself on this I think I am an idiot afterwards if I do it. I should just hold off shouldn't I?

[addy]

bumping up

[frijole]

so my vet takes Friday afternoons off. I shot him an email he will get on Monday. Since she ate willingly at lunch I'm thinking I'll go ahead and give her her Lysodren tonight. (last night was her no lysodren night)

Every time I question myself on this I think I am an idiot afterwards if I do it. I should just hold off shouldn't I?

Yep. When in doubt do not give it. I can't tell you how many times others have regretted giving that one pill. If there is any doubt - don't do it. Mom's know best. Go with your instinct and remember it keeps working for 48 hrs so it isn't like her cortisol will shoot right up. But don't wait for the acth test - if your vet is in on Monday go in and insist on the test. Any further out and the results are skewed. Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Kim & Addy. We didn't give it last night. She remains a mystery

[addy]

Hi Judi,

I'm glad you did not give the pill. Hopefully the vet will help solve the mystery next week.

How is Jenny doing today? Don't you wish they could talk? I must ask mine a hundred times "what's wrong, why are you doing that?"

One day if they answer I'll be clutching my chest like the old Sanford and Sons.:D:D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes: yelling "the big one's coming";)

I hope you have a calm rest of the weekend.

love,
addy

[winterhorses]

Judi,
Just read through the entire thread, and I'm so sorry you're dealing with two such tricky issues - Cushing's and diabetes! You've been doing such a great job and Jenny is a lucky dog for having you.

Doesn't seem like things always have to happen on a Friday? I hope tomorrow passes quickly for you!

Rachel & Rascal

[jmac]

Hi Judi-
I don't have any advice for you, but just wanted to stop by to say I'm thinking of you and Jenny and hoping the rest of the weekend has been/will be okay. It is true that issues pop up at the end of the week or over the weekend! Anyway, I hope you'll get some answers soon!

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Addy, Rachel & Julie.

I'm not sure if a tooth is bugging her, if she is playing me, or if it is cortisol. Yesterday she would eat the stuff that makes her blood sugar skyrocket, today she spit it out but ate some ground boiled chicken and sweet potato.

long weekend for sure thanks, Judi

[marie adams]

Hi Judi,

It is always a guessing game with them....:o I have guessing games with Ella and as far as I know she doesn't have issues other than maybe allergies. She's only a year old, but after having a Cush pup you are constantly wondering why is she doing that, did Maddie do it...:o:o

You are doing a great job with Jenny and it was a good choice not to give the pill like Kim said. :D

We have all become worry worts much more than before; so take care of yourself also!!!:)

[addy]

Hi Judi,

Just checking in on you and Jenny:):):)

love and hugs,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Marie and Addy. I am very disappointed, my vet did not call me back today and he always does. Every time I called he was with someone. So, she is still scarfing down her boiled chicken and green beans.

thanks for the encouragement and checking in. The vet is 50 miles away so I was hoping to speak to him today so I could take her in in the morning.

grrrr

[addy]

Hi Judi,

Stopping by to see if you were able to reach your vet. How is Jenny doing? Sending you love and hugs.

If it makes you feel better, I called my IMS Tuesday at 8:00, had to leave a message and still no call back:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It is frustrating when they dont call us back. I had a customer once whom would call and always insist he had to speak to me immediately. If I could not take the call and he had to leave a message, he would call me every ten minutes until he reached me:rolleyes:

Drove me nuts!!!!! The vets should appreciate we are not that bad!!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

love,
addy

[jmac]

Hi Judi-

I just wanted to check in on you quickly...I've hardly been on the forum this week, but hope Jenny is doing okay! Thinking of you both!

Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Addy & Julie, you guys are so thoughtful. My vet finally called me back, did not think it sounded like cushings so wanted me to not totally quit the lysodren so the ACTH wouldn't be too skewed.

So, we went in today for the ACTH.

She has been whimpering when the insulin enters her body not the needle. I injected some saline in front of the vet and naturally she didn't let out a peep!

He thinks she is a drama queen who has been hurt by a previous shot and remembers. My husband and Mother in Law took care of her for about 2 weeks in January while I was out of town. Something might have happened.

So, I'll post the ACTH results when I get them. I'm guessing it will be Monday. She has been eating the home cooked food I've made for her. This morning she ate it all, last night she ate about 3/4's of it.

thanks again, Judi

[addy]

He thinks she is a drama queen

LOL Judi, I can think of worse things for her to be. I dont know why that struck me as so funny!!!!:D:D:D

I know I am drama queen, I did not know pups could be one too;)

Awwww, little Jenny:):):):):):):) if she remembers getting a shot and that it hurt, awwwww, Jenny.

hugs,
addy

[Bo's Mom]

Sending hugs to Jenny tonight as you and Bo are in the same boat waiting for test to come back. Here's hoping for some answers.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

well got Jenny's latest ACTH. recap. she has been taking 125 mg 2 days on 1 day off since Sept 2011. last ACTH in December her post was 4.9

she hasnt been hungry so I did not give her pill on the 19th or 20th but the vet couldn't get her in till the 26th and wanted her somewhat on schedule or he was going to have me wait another week. I didn't want to do that.

He really thought the no appetite was not cushings related. So she had Lysodren on the 23rd & 24th, and her ACTH on the 26th. She has only had one dose since then cause I've been worried.

her pre was .3 her post was .5

tonight he has me giving her a dose of prednisone and wants me to start every other day on the lysodren starting tomorrow. back in the old days 3 times a week had her cortisol rising but she has lost a pound since then and become more sensitive to her insulin so who knows.

she hasn't been lethargic puking or had diarrhea just been very very picky about food.

he and I will talk tomorrow about the effects of the pred. I give lysodren in the evening

could the 24th dose have still been in her system and lowered her ACTH even more? we've never worried about the timing of her last dose with her previous ACTH tests (6 of them so far my poor girl)

this is too long. off to heat up her home cooked meal thanks, Judi

[Bo's Mom]

Jenny:
We hope you feel better soon. Mom is going to take good care of you. Let us know how you are feeling.

[addy]

Hi Judi,

I cant comment on lysodren but hopefully someone will stop by. I would have thought yes, she could be lower than that and wonder why you would start the lysodren already tomorrow but, hey, I am sure someone with experience will soon come by and advise you.

love,
addy

[frijole]

well got Jenny's latest ACTH. recap. she has been taking 125 mg 2 days on 1 day off since Sept 2011. last ACTH in December her post was 4.9

she hasnt been hungry so I did not give her pill on the 19th or 20th but the vet couldn't get her in till the 26th and wanted her somewhat on schedule or he was going to have me wait another week. I didn't want to do that.

He really thought the no appetite was not cushings related. So she had Lysodren on the 23rd & 24th, and her ACTH on the 26th. She has only had one dose since then cause I've been worried.

her pre was .3 her post was .5

tonight he has me giving her a dose of prednisone and wants me to start every other day on the lysodren starting tomorrow. back in the old days 3 times a week had her cortisol rising but she has lost a pound since then and become more sensitive to her insulin so who knows.

she hasn't been lethargic puking or had diarrhea just been very very picky about food.

he and I will talk tomorrow about the effects of the pred. I give lysodren in the evening

could the 24th dose have still been in her system and lowered her ACTH even more? we've never worried about the timing of her last dose with her previous ACTH tests (6 of them so far my poor girl)

this is too long. off to heat up her home cooked meal thanks, Judi


Judi - If her 2nd number on that test was 0.5 your dog has gone Addisonian! The very fact that your vet is telling you to give lysodren tomorrow has me furious! DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT give any lysodren. You should keep on the prednisone and run like hell to another vet that knows what they are doing.

I am so sorry to be so blunt but to tell you to ignore what were obvious signs of loading and to make YOU insist on having the test and then tell you to keep giving the drug... YOUR DOG WOULD DIE IF YOU LISTENED TO THIS VET.

ok.... I have calmed down.. :o Please know this guy/gal is over their head and you need to get a partner to treat your dog that can help you.

I have to run to a meeting but hopefully someone else will chime in. I will check in later. HUGS HUGS HUGS, Kim

PS I had a clueless vet or two myself so don't feel bad. It happens. Not everyone has treated this disease.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Kim, Addy and Bo's Mom. You guys have told me all along I need a specialist I have just stuck with him. I am 100% ok with not giving her lysodren for awhile because it just doesn't seem right.

He has been willing to consult with the specialists at the U of M which is what he did in December or January. He called down there with my list of questions and they told him they didn't think actually seeing her would give them any more insight then his emails and talking to him.

but he did make another cushing dog go addison so I guess I need to suck it up and make an appointment down there.

be blunt all you want. She took her prednisone like a good girl tonight. he & I are going to talk in the morning. The old instructions from when she was 1st loading and I got it said 1/2 a pill twice a day so she got 1/2 a pill tonight. Would you give 1/2 a pill tomorrow morning. I'm thinking it can't hurt at this point.

Judi

[frijole]

Judi, When you say 1/2 a pill tonight and then tomorrow, are you talking about lysodren or prednisone? Please tell me prednisone. With the cortisol this low you need to stay off of the lysodren FOR WEEKS and maybe FOREVER depending on whether the Addisons is permanent or not. Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Judi, When you say 1/2 a pill tonight and then tomorrow, are you talking about lysodren or prednisone? Please tell me prednisone. With the cortisol this low you need to stay off of the lysodren FOR WEEKS and maybe FOREVER depending on whether the Addisons is permanent or not. Kim

prednisone

[frijole]

prednisone

WHEW.... I had a heart attack thinking you gave my lysodren. Forgive me, we become like mothers around here - very protective. :D Good Girl.

I think the challenge you have is that the IMS is ASSuming the vet knows the basics of cushings and I promise you that isn't the case. I know he/she wouldn't intentionally cause your baby harm but that is what has happened and you paid for the service to boot. Time to move on to someone who can help you.

Like I said - I have so been in your shoes and it is frightening to feel alone. Well you aren't - we are here. We aren't vets but we can help while you find one ok? I put it off forever because I liked the guy... and it almost cost my girl her life. That's when I saw the light. Hugs, Kim

[Harley PoMMom]

She took her prednisone like a good girl tonight. he & I are going to talk in the morning. The old instructions from when she was 1st loading and I got it said 1/2 a pill twice a day so she got 1/2 a pill tonight. Would you give 1/2 a pill tomorrow morning. I'm thinking it can't hurt at this point.

Judi

Hi Judi,

What is the dose of prednisone that Jenny is taking? And what is her weight? I would definitely give her the pred tomorrow and probably the next day also. Were her electrolytes checked too?

Sending huge and loving hugs,
Lori

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi Judi,

What is the dose of prednisone that Jenny is taking? And what is her weight? I would definitely give her the pred tomorrow and probably the next day also. Were her electrolytes checked too?

Sending huge and loving hugs,
Lori
Hi Lori. Her prednisone is 5 mg and the prescription said to take 1/2 a pill twice a day.

this is the prednisone from when we first loaded her last July so it only has 15 pills.

When I speak to her vet this morning I'm going to ask him to ask his IMS buddies at the U if I should have her on daily pred for awhile or just nothing before we do another ACTH and if he can get me in for an appointment there.

When I got home last night she was her rowdy fiesty self. After taking the prednisone (and eating and her insulin) all she did was sleep.

I need to look up the side effects. thanks. Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Jenny is 7.3 pounds right now. The pred side effects appear to be the opposite of her reaction last night but her blood sugar was up to 450 this morning. She ate a little faster this morning than she did last night.

I gave her another half pill of pred and she & Ranger are at the groomer this morning. Little worried about that but they will both feel better being clean and trimmed. thanks everyone, I called my vet and asked him to call the IMS

[CJandTucker]

Glad to Jenny is doing so well this morning!

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks! we have an appt. with the clinic Julie uses on Saturday at 11:30

road trip time

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

my vet is very nice. he says no more pred today since it made her sleepy last night and to call him again tomorrow to see about maybe 1/4 of a 5mg pill of the pred vs. 1/2 based on how she is acting.

he has worked with the specialist we are seeing on Saturday before.

he did say pred wreaks havoc on blood sugar levels. oh joy

[addy]

Hang in there Julie, it will all get worked out. I am so happy Jenny is better today. I hope she comes home all beautiful!!!!

I watched a video and cut off Zoe's long hair on the top of her head AND her beard:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Actually, it is not toooooo bad.

love,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hang in there Julie, it will all get worked out. I am so happy Jenny is better today. I hope she comes home all beautiful!!!!

I watched a video and cut off Zoe's long hair on the top of her head AND her beard:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Actually, it is not toooooo bad.

love,
addy

you are brave! as long as she FEELS pretty that is all that matters! Jenny felt so good after her grooming appt. she was running around like crazy.

[frijole]

my vet is very nice. he says no more pred today since it made her sleepy last night and to call him again tomorrow to see about maybe 1/4 of a 5mg pill of the pred vs. 1/2 based on how she is acting.

he has worked with the specialist we are seeing on Saturday before.

he did say pred wreaks havoc on blood sugar levels. oh joy

I wondered what impact it would have on her diabetes. Just so you know - prednisone mimics cortisol which is what caused the cushings. (too much cortisol) It is given when cortisol goes to low to give relief to the dog. Prednisone should not make your dog sleepy - it should make them lively and hungry and thirsty (remember it mimics cortisol so you'd start to see some of those old symptoms)

I would think that if your dog is tired it is from not enough prednisone and from the low cortisol. Just keep a real close eye out which I'm sure you are doing. If she continues to be lethargic I would give her prednisone.

Again, dealing with cushings and diabetes is tricky - probably best left in the hands of the specialists. Hope this helps a wee bit. Hang in there, Kim

[labblab]

I'm hoping somebody else with a diabetic dog will stop by to confirm this, but I think the issue with prednisone is that it has the tendency to increase blood sugar. And elevated blood sugar can result in fatigue. So depending on his/her blood sugar level, a diabetic dog may exhibit a different reaction to prednisone than what you'd expect to see in a typical Cushpup suffering from low cortisol.

Marianne

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I'm hoping somebody else with a diabetic dog will stop by to confirm this, but I think the issue with prednisone is that it has the tendency to increase blood sugar. And elevated blood sugar can result in fatigue. So depending on his/her blood sugar level, a diabetic dog may exhibit a different reaction to prednisone than what you'd expect to see in a typical Cushpup suffering from low cortisol.

Marianne

that was what I was wondering too Marianne because she was at 451 this morning. After her grooming appointment she was feeling pretty good. One of those days where you would swear she wasn't blind.

Tonight will tell the tale. I guess if she doesn't want to eat I'll give her 1/4 of a 5 mg pill. thanks again, Judi

[winterhorses]

Judi, how did dinner go?

Thanks for the well wishes for Rascal, and same to you and Jenny! Looks like we both have pups with low numbers. I'm glad you have an appointment with a specialist. Looking forward to hearing the details of your visit.

[jmac]

Judi-
I'm so glad Jenny is doing okay! Yikes-it got kind of scary! I'm glad you're going to see the specialist-I hope it will help. I saw Dr. Myers there. I'm looking forward to hearing how things go. I hope you'll find your appointment to be helpful!

Hang in there!
Julie & Hannah

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Judi, how did dinner go?

Thanks for the well wishes for Rascal, and same to you and Jenny! Looks like we both have pups with low numbers. I'm glad you have an appointment with a specialist. Looking forward to hearing the details of your visit.

thanks Rachel, there are too many of us going through this for sure, hopefully the pups will all be ok.

Dinner went well. She ate with more interest than she has in awhile and she and my other dog finished at the same time. I think the prednisone is working.

I didn't give her any more prednisone tonight but think I will give her 1/4 of a pill in the morning. my vet wanted me to wait to talk to him but as a diabetic she eats at 6am and 6pm so I'd have to wait till 6pm if I wait to talk to him. She had 1/2 of a pill this morning.

both dogs are sacked out right now but a morning at the groomer usually poops them out! :)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Judi-
I'm so glad Jenny is doing okay! Yikes-it got kind of scary! I'm glad you're going to see the specialist-I hope it will help. I saw Dr. Myers there. I'm looking forward to hearing how things go. I hope you'll find your appointment to be helpful!

Hang in there!
Julie & Hannah

thanks again Julie. I decided to go with who I could get in with and my vet had good things to say about this doctor so hopefully it will work out.

[frijole]

Judi, I'm glad Marianne posted what she did about diabetes and prednisone - she made a valid point about how it could act differently. You know your dog better than anyone, including your vet so just keep a vigilant eye out as you have and monitor her glucose and you will be fine.

So many dogs have gone low, so many newly diagnosed diabetics with suspected cushings and I also get your avatar and Bo's confused so forgive me if I get confused... I promise to read your thread title each and every time so I remember Jenny is diabetic!

Good luck with the new vet! Kim

[Bo's Mom]

Kim,
Bo takes that as a compliment that you would confuse him with such a cutie of a poodle.(Jenny)
:D:D:D:D:D:D

[frijole]

Kim,
Bo takes that as a compliment that you would confuse him with such a cutie of a poodle.(Jenny)
:D:D:D:D:D:D

It gets really confusing when so many have the same problem at the same time but different doses, different names.... :confused::eek::confused::eek: Love the name but there was one time when it seemed like all new cush dogs were named Chloe or Zoe and it drove me crazy! :D

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

So many dogs have gone low, so many newly diagnosed diabetics with suspected cushings and I also get your avatar and Bo's confused so forgive me if I get confused... I promise to read your thread title each and every time so I remember Jenny is diabetic!

Good luck with the new vet! Kim

thanks Kim! I do a double take every time too! cutie little Bo's avie looks just like Jenny's and they were both diagnosed in July 2011 and they are both having similar issues. weird

[Bo's Mom]

That is very weird...How is Jenny doing today?

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

That is very weird...How is Jenny doing today?

she is getting her appetite back. yay. no pred and no lysodren today. just staying the course till her IMS appt on Saturday

[frijole]

Great news! So glad to hear it. Kim

[CJandTucker]

Yay!!! Great news!

[addy]

Really great news Judi!!!!! Go Jenny!!!!

love,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Kim, CJ and Addy, it is so nice to have her wanting to eat again!

[Bo's Mom]

Yippee, Jenny!!!

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Jenny & I went to the IMS in the Twin Cities today.

They did an ultrasound, checked her electrolytes and some other basic stuff.

Turns out my Fargo vet was wrong she does not have an adrenal tumor. This is really good news since we weren't going to do the surgery and this vet was scaring me with all of the things that could be happening if an adrenal tumor was continuing to grow inside of her.

He agrees with no Cushings med for however long until or if she starts showing symptoms again. He said he wouldn't want her to get the raging thirst or ravenous hunger but at that point he'd want the ACTH. He also said if I wanted to save $ we could do the pre test first and if it was as low as her last one, (.2) there would be no point in injecting the spendy cortisol for the post test as we would already know she is low.

He said as long as her appetite is ok, no pred is needed but if she does need some, at her size, a tiny bit once a day is it. They said their scale may be different but she lost some weight.

She has a sludgy gallbladder. He said he could have her take actigall but he doesn't know if it would help or not. Does anyone have experience with this? Right now I said no. He said continue a low fat diet and it probably won't improve her gallbladder but should keep it from getting worse.

She was a very good girl today.

thanks everyone.

[frijole]

This vet knows what he is doing! YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAPPY DANCE!!!!

Great that it isn't an adrenal tumor. He is right about the next test and saving money.... a sure sign he is on top of his game and honest to boot. So happy it was worth the trip.

So now you can put your feet up and relax and know you are in good hands and simply wait to see what happens. This truly is great news. Glad Jenny was a good girl too. :D Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Kim. I do think the appointment was worth it. And he gave me a cd with her ultrasound in case I wanted to make it my screensaver lol

[addy]

Judi this is good news and I am so glad you had a positive experience.

I hope Jenny continues to do well.

LOL on the cd for a screen saver!!!!!!!!!!!

love,
addy

[frijole]

thanks Kim. I do think the appointment was worth it. And he gave me a cd with her ultrasound in case I wanted to make it my screensaver lol

:D:D:D Now that is a first! Sense of humor too.

[Bo's Mom]

So happy to hear the great news!! Continued good health to Jenny!!

[jmac]

I'm glad you and Jenny had a positive experience at the vet, and I'm glad she is feeling good and doing well! I hope that continues! :)

Julie & Hannah

[winterhorses]

I think the appointment was a success - good on you for persisting. I'll bet Jenny thinks so too! :)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks again, Julie, Rachel & Bo's Mom. I did have to start her on 1/4 pill of prednisone. we are going to do it for a week to see if it will stabilize her appetite. Her blood sugar was doing the scary low thing.

knock wood, it seems to be doing the trick so far

It was definitely worth going down there

[addy]

can you hear me knocking on the wood, tap, tap tap:D:D:D:D:D
oh wait, that is the dang woodpecker:p:p:p:p:p


sending prayers for you and Jenny.

love,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Jenny was taking 125 mg of prednisone starting last Tuesday once a day but her blood sugar was all over. So we switched her to .5 ml of liquid prednisone starting Saturday (yes it has been a whopping 2 days)

her blood sugar is better but tonight at supper my other dog walked away from his and blind Jenny honed right in and tried to scarf down his food.

I was going to touch base with my vet on Tuesday or Wednesday but I think I will try to reach him tomorrow, get his ok to stop the prednisone, see if she gets hungrier or stays hungry and schedule an ACTH after the pred is out of her system

sound like a plan? thanks to all of you, Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

and this is why they say man plans and God laughs.

wasn't going to give Jenny her pred this am since she was so hungry last night (blood sugar was 318)

this morning her blood sugar was 111 and she had no interest in eating. Finally got her to eat a little bit of the 3rd food we tried. And I gave her the prednisone.

She is a tricky one! :)

[addy]

Jenny just wants to make sure you are paying attention:D:D:D

We all think we have a plan and then our pups throw our plan out the window. Happens to me ALL the time;);)

I think nice weather is coming our way, hope you have time to enjoy it.

love,
addy

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Hi: brief update on Jenny, she is doing great but I think it is safe to say she is an Addison dog now. Too much Lysodren and my fault.

But, I give her 2.5 ml of liquid prednisone with every meal, keeps her appetite up and her blood sugar more stable. She is very playful and happy.

Jenny is 12 now and her hair is changing back to healthier. It is weird! We got her official Cushings diagnosis in July 2011. When she was a puppy she was black but her breeder told us she would fade to gray/silver and she did. Now her hair is looking black again and feels softer. I guess I'll never know how long she had Cushings but it is strange! I read up on most of your dogs but usually don't have a lot to add! hugs, Judi

[Bo's Mom]

So glad to hear that Jenny is doing well right now. Too funny that you mentioned Jenny's coat color. When we bought Bo 9 years ago, he was black but his Mom's owner said it would turn silver and it did by his first birthday. I took him to the groomer about a month ago because he badly needed a haircut. Now his hair is coming back with more black hairs than silver and it is not the same texture as it was before. He used to have curly curlies. Now he has a straighter sorfter thing going except in his top knot. Hmmmm, cushings related? IDK He is the first poodle I have ever owned so I have no prior experiences with changes that they go through as they age.
Jenny: You keep feeling well....we are all thinking great thoughts for you.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

So glad to hear that Jenny is doing well right now. Too funny that you mentioned Jenny's coat color. When we bought Bo 9 years ago, he was black but his Mom's owner said it would turn silver and it did by his first birthday. I took him to the groomer about a month ago because he badly needed a haircut. Now his hair is coming back with more black hairs than silver and it is not the same texture as it was before. He used to have curly curlies. Now he has a straighter sorfter thing going except in his top knot. Hmmmm, cushings related? IDK He is the first poodle I have ever owned so I have no prior experiences with changes that they go through as they age.
Jenny: You keep feeling well....we are all thinking great thoughts for you.

of course their hair situation would be the same, that is so funny! I'm looking for Bo's ACTH results, hope they came out ok

[jmac]

Hi Judi!

Glad to hear Jenny is doing well! :)

Julie & Hannah

[addy]

The important thing is that Jenny is happy. I am so glad she is doing well. I think it is so cool that her hair is coming in black.:):):)


Try to stay cool this weekend, another heat wave is approaching.
Still no rain in sight.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Julie & Addy! I hope all our dogs continue to feel a little better as the summer goes on. Jenny definitely is not a cushings dog anymore. While I was out of town during the 100 degree days she wanted to lay outside in the sun!

[addy]

Stopping by to say hi and ask about wee girl Jenny.

I hope you got the much needed rain that showed up last night. It is still hot but we stood outside in the rain, it felt good.

I wonder if all this heat means it will be 20 below in December:eek:

I hope you and Jenny are enjoying the fast moving summer. I am not sure where the month of July flew to:confused::confused:

If I start seeing Christmas in August sales, I am going to freak:D:D

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

hi: small update on Jenny.

Back in May we say a specialist and confirmed that I'd overdosed her with Lysodren so her cortisol was almost nonexistent. Since then she has been receiving .25 ml of liquid prednisone with each meal. Her blood sugar has been good, her coat is looking amazing and she is frisky.

Last week she seemed to be eating faster and on Thursday night she tried to eat my other dog's food as he was distracted.

So, time to test the cortisol again. The specialist had told me not to even consider Lysodren again until her pre and post ACTH #'s are both above 2. I don't think they will be. Our regular vet wants to wean her totally off the prednisone then test. I'm kind of ok with that because I don't want the test skewed even though he said an ACTH is not affected by prednisone like an LDDS is. I didn't push him, she will be off before we test.

It is going to be 10 days before she is off though so I'm a little worried about her feeling crummy again.

If she feels absolutely awful, is he right? could we do an ACTH with some prednisone in her system just to see?

We are doing 4 days at half the dose she was taking and then will switch to every other day on the pred.

sorry this is so long, thanks, Judi

[Bo's Mom]

Hi Jenny,
Even though I can't offer any advice to your Mom's questions, your look alike in Texas is hoping all your test come out okay and you continue feeling great.
I too am going to be tested soon because I have been off Lysodren for almost a month now. My mom has given me Predisone but only 2 doses. We go get tested this week just to see if I also went into Addisons like you did. I sleep most of the day and cuddle with mom at night. I know I have scared her a couple of times but I just want her to know if I am not feeling well.
Let us know how you are doing....Well wishes from my family and me.

[addy]

Hi Judi,

I am hoping one of the moderators or administrators come by to give their advice.

I am hoping little Miss Jenny will not feel awful and it will be a non issue:)

Oh Judi, the road traveled right? we could all write a book, I am afraid.

Love ya neighbor

[frijole]

I never used prednisone for more than one dose at a time so I am no expert.. I do know however that it is customary to wean a dog off of it after long term use because it can be quite a jolt to their system. I would keep a very very very very very close eye out for any signs of trouble - especially since you are also dealing with a diabetic.

Why do they want to wait 10 days? That seems extreme.

Hoping someone else chimes in. Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Bo, Belinda, Addy & Kim

Kim: since I expressed concern about immediately going to every other day to wean her off the pred. He suggested 4 days at half a dose then the rest of the days at every other day. It works out to about 10 days before we will get in for her ACTH

Just with the 1/2 dose decrease her blood sugar has been all over the place so I am watching it carefully.

[molly muffin]

It is so hard with these little ones. Just keep an eye on her. My golden took prednisone for her allergies and when I would try to wean her off of it, I could tell by her scratching kicking in and her skin getting sort of rashy looking that the problems were coming back. All you can do is to keep an eye on the situation and if it starts look wonky call the vet.
I hope some of the others with experience with prednisone come by and offer their thoughts too.
You're doing great!

Hugs,
Sharlene

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Sharlene. That is my plan. She is still eating well for both meals and she didn't do that the last time she only got one pred dose a day. So, maybe she did produce a little cortisol on her own.

[addy]

Everything okay????:):):):)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Everything okay????:):):):)

knock wood, so far so good. still eating well. tomorrow we start every other day.

I think her vet is wrong thinking she is producing more cortisol than she is. He was surprised her coat looks so good on the prednisone. The ACTH should clear things up

I liked Glynda's answer to you too. Fingers crossed for Zoe!

[molly muffin]

Yay. Glad to hear everything is still going well.

Sharlene

[Bo's Mom]

Good luck to Jenny tomorrow. We all have our fingers crossed that she will get a good report.
And thank you for all the suport you have given Bo and me. The links that Leslie sent to me have been very informational. I am now trying to get my brain wrapped up in all of this.

Hugs,

[addy]

Hey Judi,

We are all going along with you and Jenny tomorrow:):):)

I'm glad you did not run away to an Addison's Group cause we want you and Jenny here with us:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Love ya

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Sharlene, Belinda and Addy. I know! I felt like such a stranger peeking in at the Addison's group

We won't get her ACTH results till Friday. She has been off the pred since Sunday and the vet said to keep her off it as long as she has a good appetite. She has a good appetite! lol She had gotten pretty frail at 6.3 pounds and is back up to 7.3 pounds which is where she should be.

I feel that her blood sugar is all over the place but the vet isn't too concerned so we will see.

thank you all for the well wishes. Jenny is finally feeling good enough that we may finally be able to get her teeth cleaned!

[Bo's Mom]

Woohoo, Jenny!!! Bo and I are glad to hear things are going so well.

[molly muffin]

Wow! Tooth cleaning too!

So glad to hear she is feeling better. That's wonderful!!!!!

hugs,
Sharlene

[addy]

Go Jenny Girl, Go!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D

[Bo's Mom]

Any word on Jenny's results?

[molly muffin]

ACTH result Friday!
Let us know how it looks!

hugs,
Sharlene

[addy]

Me too, I'm here as well :)

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

I love you guys! Between this forum and the diabetes forum Jenny and I don't feel so alone thank you!!

Jenny gets to remain on a drug holiday. Her cortisol levels are coming up but slowly so we are going to try no prednisone and no lysodren.

April 2012 pre: 0.3 post 0.5

August 2012 pre: 0.8 post 1.0

I will keep an eye on her and we will check her again in 4 to 6 weeks. Her appetite is good. Her insulin needs are plummeting which was the signal for the cortisol dropping last time. But she had been off the prednisone for over 2 days before this ACTH so it is good.

thanks to all of you again and Belinda, there is hope for Bo too!

hugs, Judi and Jenny who wants to lay in the sun at 90 degrees with black fur - obviously no extra cortisol in that body right now!

[Bo's Mom]

Oh, so glad to hear that Jenny is perking up. I too am hoping that Bo will follow his genetic twin's footsteps and start to go in that direction.
Hugs to you guys and tell Jenny to come visit us in Texas. We have had plenty of 90+ degrees outside and lots of sunshine. We like to share it. :cool:

[molly muffin]

That's good that she is perking up and producing a bit of cortisol on her own now. So not completely addisons from the looks of it.

Hoping the best for Bo too!

Hugs,
Sharlene

[addy]

We keep on plugging along. If Jenny feels good and is perking up, that is all that matters:):):)

Baby steps!!!! We all take baby steps together.

[jmac]

Hi Judi,

Thanks for always checking on Hannah and me. I really appreciate it. I'm glad to hear Jenny is doing well! I hope that continues. That is exciting that your husband got a job. I bet he is feeling pretty stressed at this point! I hope his year goes well.

Take care,
Julie & Hannah

[addy]

Hi Judi!!!!

Popping in to say Happy Labor Day and that I hope you and Jenny are well. I think about you both all the time.

Are the leaves starting to change color? We had severe drought conditions this summer so I dont think we will get a colorful Fall. The paper said that next Spring we may find that many of our trees, bushes and perennials dont make it. The problems show up the following spring because the roots just got too stressed:(:(:(.

We are all plugging along and hope your family is too. Hope your hubby is ready for his new job:):):):):) How exciting for you both.:)

Love ya girlfriend,

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Addy! I think I've missed some of your updates too with all the driving we've been doing to get the husband settled.

Jenny is being picky about her food again. I don't know if it is low cortisol, the upheaval of my husband being gone or if she just feels crummy. I have to adjust her insulin when she won't eat her food with lots of fiber so that doesn't help her feel any better when she runs a little higher.

It is pretty brown around here too. I don't think we have as many acorns and the dogs miss the squirrels running back and forth stocking up. The house is quieter because I don't have frantic dogs but that is one of Jenny's favorite fall things to do. Hang in our little doggy area and monitor the squirrels.

Hope you had a great Labor Day!


Hi Judi!!!!

Popping in to say Happy Labor Day and that I hope you and Jenny are well. I think about you both all the time.

Are the leaves starting to change color? We had severe drought conditions this summer so I dont think we will get a colorful Fall. The paper said that next Spring we may find that many of our trees, bushes and perennials dont make it. The problems show up the following spring because the roots just got too stressed:(:(:(.

We are all plugging along and hope your family is too. Hope your hubby is ready for his new job:):):):):) How exciting for you both.:)

Love ya girlfriend,

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Judi

I finally caught up on your cushing's thread. Hope Jenny continues to feel better.

Jane, Franklin and Angel Bailey

[Bo's Mom]

Has Jenny began eating well again? Wanting to hear good news about her....take care of Bo's genetic twin.(I hope you don't mind me referring to her this way). We want her out there chasing the squirrels again. Funny thing, Bo was never a squirrel chaser. But, put a cat out there and he will run to see if he can catch them. Never does and then will start on a bark fest. With our cat, he totally ignores her and she gets so aggravated with him because she likes to play.

Right now, I am very envious of people who are not hitting the triple digits and who have had some rain. We are so parched and the heat keeps coming on. Whew!!

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

of course Jenny is Bo's twin! (except for the boy/girl thing :) )

I hope he continues to feel better. Jenny is a yipper too that is for sure. We have an oak tree in the corner of our yard right by the fenced in doggy area so I call it the squirrel super highway this time of year because they are running back and forth stockpiling. Jenny has spent hours with her nose down a rain spout knowing a chipmunk is hiding from her!

She still loves sitting out there and barking at them even though she can't see them. My closest neighbors swear they can't hear her so I just let her bark. It brings her joy.

I hope you guys get some heat relief soon and I hope you get a plan of action at the vet tomorrow for Bo!

Jenny is eating again because I am putting a tsp of the yummy duck and chicken grill in with her Purina OM. I need to start weighing it though I think I am feeding her too much and her blood sugar is running in the 300's.

hang in there

and Hi Jane!! Good to see you over here!


Has Jenny began eating well again? Wanting to hear good news about her....take care of Bo's genetic twin.(I hope you don't mind me referring to her this way). We want her out there chasing the squirrels again. Funny thing, Bo was never a squirrel chaser. But, put a cat out there and he will run to see if he can catch them. Never does and then will start on a bark fest. With our cat, he totally ignores her and she gets so aggravated with him because she likes to play.

Right now, I am very envious of people who are not hitting the triple digits and who have had some rain. We are so parched and the heat keeps coming on. Whew!!

[Bo's Mom]

How is precious Jenny?

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

You are too sweet to be thinking of us with all you have going on. Jenny's appetite is improving and her blood sugar is starting to increase with her current level of insulin so I think it is time for another ACTH.

She isn't doing any cushings stuff right now. No lysodren and no prednisone.

Unfortunately I had to replace my sump pump so an ACTH may not be in the budget for a little while yet. I count my blessings that she is happy and content.

My husband is working out of town now so is only home on weekends. She sticks to him like glue when he is here. Girl dogs and men! Little traitor! He is not the one taking care of her every day LOL

Big hugs to you and your family and Bo. I hope your girls are dealing with things ok. Judi

[addy]

Stopping by to check in on you and Jenny and to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving. I hope things are good with Jenny. I think of you guys and enjoy when I see you posting somewhere because then I know you are OK:D:D:D:D

We are to have a mild Turkey Day with temps about 60. I think we will have to cut the grass again!!!!!!

Take care neighbor:D:D:D:D

[Bo's Mom]

Still wishing our weather was in the 60's. A couple of weeks ago, we were in the mid 90's and windy. Our cutting grass weather lasts all year long.
Give Jenny hugs from her Texas family who is wishing you all a Happiest of Thanksgivings.

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thank you Belinda and Addy! Happy Thanksgiving to you and your 2 legged and 4 legged families too!

I would like to mow one last time to mulch some leaves but wimped out yesterday. My husband was so jealous of the people who had time to go fishing in their boats. It is crazy.

I don't comment much over here because Jenny hasn't taken any Cushings meds since April as her cortisol slowly rises. Her appetite is pretty good so an ACTH should be in her near future but I just spent a fortune on her dental. And you all have such complicated issues, I'm too ignorant to help.

My little blind diabetic dog is pretty deaf now. She does great. She is such an adaptable pooch it is amazing. Rub her belly and she is your friend for life. She is playing hard, gets around ok, but does want to be held more when we are home.

Thanks again! Judi & Jenny

[molly muffin]

Happy Thanksgiving! It's just nice to know that you are still with us. :) Give Jenny some belly rubs from all of us!!

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[molly muffin]

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and Jenny!

have a safe and wonderful holiday

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

hi: Mini update on Jenny. her blood sugar has been good. She has lost weight and most of her hearing is gone. But she is still frisky and likes to play with her stuffed toys.

She hasn't had any Lysodren since April 2012 and no prednisone since August 2012.

ACTH History:

April 2012 pre .2 post .3 started prednisone
August 2012 pre .8 post 1.0 stopped prednisone

January 2013 pre only test = 2.2

her cortisol is back. She eats every bite of her food which I've increased since she was losing weight but she doesn't have any cushings symptoms right now so I'm just going to keep an eye on her.

Her blood sugar has gone up this week due to the food increase. so we've increased her insulin.

hoping she doesn't start getting ravenous. Last April her specialist had suggested we start back on Lysodren when she got over 2 but I just don't want to

[addy]

Hi Judi:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I dont blame you for wanting to wait. I sure am glad Jenny is frisky and playful. They are amazing, aren't they? We had to increase Zoe's food too and she managed to gain 1/2 pound so I am glad Jenny put some weight back on as well. I love your new avatar with the purple flowers. At least I thought it looked new .:o:o

Thanks for the mini report. I think about you two alot:D:D:D

At work, so have to run now.

Ciao

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

thanks Addy! I try to keep up with everyone's pups but usually have nothing to add. You all are way over my head and Jenny hasn't been on Cushings meds for awhile. Probably come March or April I'll check her again. thanks again! :)

[molly muffin]

Yay, glad jenny is feeling frisky. I just love it when they are playful and worry when they aren't.

2.2 still isn't bad. I can see why you wouldn't want to have to go down that road any time soon. :)

hugs,
Sharlene

[Bo's Mom]

Jenny,
Bo misses hearing updates about his newly found twin. He is so glad things are going well. Here's to many more frisky days!!

[frijole]

:D There you two twins go posting and getting me confused all over again. LOL Judi, I think that is a nice update and I'd stay the heck away from loading again too... we'll all pray that things stay the way they are. Kim

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

Thanks Sharlene! I hadn't realized Molly was carrying a toy in your avi too! how cute

thanks Belinda! we keep looking for Bo updates too, I'm glad he is hanging in there.

thanks Kim. I don't want her to struggle with Cushings symptoms again but I think we have some time and some wiggle room. Judi

[Jenny & Judi in MN]

with all of the sad losses we've had around here I wanted to post an update for the new folks.

2 years ago, right before the 4th of July, my newly diagnosed diabetic dog Jenny was also diagnosed with Cushings.

My vet told me that I would see all kinds of literature giving her 2 years to live and that he thought we could do better than that and not to be the emotional basket case I was.

I've made mistakes with her, she hasn't been on any Cushings meds since April 2012 because we overmedicated her with Lysodren.

But, her blood sugar is for the most part stable and she deals with her blindness pretty well.

Jenny is now 13 and physically seems healthier in 2013 than she did in 2011 when she was diagnosed. Since she went blind she does a lot but she won't jump on a couch or walk down the stairs. She goes up, but not down.

This winter she really had to potty and I didn't hear her and she half tumbled, half walked down the steps. Scared me to to death, she was fine.

My husband just text messaged me that he had been outside and when he walked in Miss Jenny had gone down the steps all by herself and was waiting by our doggy door to go out. Not hurt at all.

I had baby gated the steps for awhile after incident #1, then quit doing it because she quit trying. Here we go again. My second dog does not appreciate the gate!

So, hang in there. I've tried to just focus on having a happy dog and so far so good. I am very grateful to all the folks here who have talked me off the ledge a time or two. And I am deeply sorry for all who's dogs have recently passed. I don't comment too often anymore because we are in a unique situation.

Thanks again. Judi

[Boriss McCall]

Judi.. I am so glad to here that things are going good for you & Jenny. ;)

[molly muffin]

Yay, so glad that things are going well for our Jenny girl! :)
Unique situations are Just fine you know and we love to hear all the antics they get up to.
Jenny just is not going to let anything stop her. She's a go get'em kind of gal.
(although I'd be having heart attacks too at the thought of her going down the steps, heck molly can see and she scares me to death sometimes the way she moves down them)
Great to hear from you again.

hugs,
Sharlene and Molly Muffin