Adventures with Obi: HE'S BAAACK!!!!

[StarDeb55]

I had been kind of cruising local rescue websites & the humane society for about 6 weeks. I was not intentionally been looking for a Harley "clone", but did I ever find the cutest little girl right before Christmas. She is a Shih Tzu/Poodle mix who is going by the name of Confetti by the moment. The rescue is usually at my local PetsMart on Saturdays, but I knew they would not be there yesterday. I was heading down there for lunch this afternoon, & about had a heart attack when I saw the rescue. I whipped into a parking place, ran out of the car as I could see that Confetti was with them. Rescue told me she was about 2, her paperwork from their vet says 7, which they disagree with. I will get her to my vet ASAP, & let him make the call about age. She is a love bug, just wants to cuddle. I went home & got Chew, took them for a little walk with no problems. I'm not sure Chew really knew she was there because of his vision, but she did bump into him a couple of times, & Chewy didn't react at all, kind of saying, "Oh, I guess there's another dog there". I've filled out all the paperwork & will pick her up Weds. on my way home from work. Thurs-Fri. are my days off, so I can be here to make sure introductions go ok, & she settles in. I'm thinking that she will be Arwen, after the elf princess in Lord of the Rings", but Winnie for short. I've got no pictures yet,l but check out the following link. Go to the "available" tab, 4th page, & Ms. Winnie (Confetti) is about 1/2 way down the page. I'll post my own pictures once she gets home.

It's a good thing I had filled out an on-line adoption application as those potential adopters take priority. The rescue folks told me that Confetti was the star attraction today, & practically everyone was looking at her.

http://mixedupmutts.net/index.html

Debbie

[BestBuddy]

Oh Debbie she is beautiful.

Sometimes things just work out how they are meant to.

A new year and new challenges and also new joys and successes.

Can't wait for more pics.

Jenny

[Squirt's Mom]

Congratulations, Debbie! Arwen, Winnie, is a beautiful as her namesake!

Hugs,
Leslie

[addy]

They have a way of finding us, I think, when we need them the most.:)

I am so happy for you Deb. She is beautiful.

Hugs,
Addy

[frijole]

She is a doll.. please keep us posted. Kim

[Roxee's Dad]

Woo Hoo ... Congratulations, I am so excited for you and can't wait to meet her. She's a cutie :)

[Harley PoMMom]

Ms. Winnie is adorable! Congrats, Debbie!!

[Dollydog]

How exciting.....she's so adorable!! :D :D :D So I guess it is a very Happy New Year for you two!! Congratulations! Looking forward to more pictures....
Jo-Ann :)

[lulusmom]

Debbie, I think it's awesome that you are getting a new rescue baby. I checked out her pictures and she is adorable. If she is as mellow as she looks, I think the adjustment period will be fast and easy. You'll have to keep us posted and I'm sure I'm not the only one that is looking forward to more pictures.

[bernie47]

Simply.. beautiful ...!

well wishes coming your way ,

Catherine & Natcho ..

[Casey's Mom]

I am so happy for you,

She is such a cutie!!:D:D:D

[Carol G]

Congrats Deb -- she is a doll.

Good job of name picking -- Arwen was my first Keeshond and Winnie my second.

Carol

[labblab]

Congratulations, Debbie. I am so happy for you both!

Marianne

[SasAndYunah]

Debbie,

I am so happy for you! What a precious little doll :) Wishing you all a long and happy life together...

Saskia and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

For those of you who missed Winnie's picture on the rescue site, it appears to have been taken down today, so you will have to wait until I get pictures at the end of the week. I guess this means that she is officially mine. She has an appointment with my vet late Friday afternoon to get the "all clear" from him, & with that, everything is official.

I stopped at PetsMart, bought collar, leash, bowl, & a small fuzzy bed. I brought the bed in the house, & Chewy, immediately, grabs it, starts tugging on the end like it's one his "babies". I told him no, it's not a toy, it's a a bed, & you sleep in bed with me, anyway. If Ms. Winnie wants to sleep in bed, that's fine, but I want to be prepared, if she wants other sleeping arrangements.

Debbie

[addy]

Oh, this is such a happy day, a happy day indeed.

Leashes, beds, bowls, collars and Miss Winnie coming home.:D

I can't think of a better way to start the New Year, Deb.

Waiting for the pictures!!!!

Hugs,
Addy

[MiniSchnauzerMom]

Congratulations! I saw Ms. Winnie's picture yesterday and she is a cutie-pie!

Louise

[StarDeb55]

I wanted to add one more note. I really tried to tell myself these past 3 months that 1 pup was more than enough. I felt bad that Chewy has had to stay by himself while I'm at work all day. The other thing is that I think both Harley & Barkley's spirits were giving me a nudge as if to say, "You & your Mom gave both of us a good home, our forever home. Don't you think there's room in both your heart & your home to give another pup a chance at a forever home? You won't be replacing either of us, but honoring our spirit by opening our home to another pup in need."

Debbie

[jrepac]

I wanted to add one more note. I really tried to tell myself these past 3 months that 1 pup was more than enough. I felt bad that Chewy has had to stay by himself while I'm at work all day. The other thing is that I think both Harley & Barkley's spirits were giving me a nudge as if to say, "You & your Mom gave both of us a good home, our forever home. Don't you think there's room in both your heart & your home to give another pup a chance at a forever home? You won't be replacing either of us, but honoring our spirit by opening our home to another pup in need."

Debbie

congrats Debbie! I can't wait to see the pictures. You can never replace the furballs you had, but it is always nice to welcome a new one into the house. I too, am making my weekly trips to Petco for little things for my little Pebbles. It's been a long time since I had a pup and forgot the fun of it all. And, yes, I let her sleep in my bed as well :D but, I do worry about rolling on her! :p

we went to the vet the other day (she's getting some worming meds) and she has gained .25 lbs! LOL! she is now at 2.80lbs...

how I went from my usual terriers to her, I don't really know...but she is such a sweet little thing, I don't worry about it!:)

I too, have been a "Dad" to 2 Cushings dogs now...I really wish the vets could find a cure for this awful disease. We do our very best to manage it, but it's tough!

All the best.

Jeff, Angel Mandy & Pebbles

[Franklin'sMum]

Congrats, Debbie, on your new addition to the family!!! That's wonderful news1 :):):):):) I'm so happy for you and Chewy, and Ms Winnie :)

Jane, Franklin and Angel Bailey xxx

[Bichonluver3]

Oh, Debbie, I am SO happy for you and Winnie and Chewy. I have been away from the site because I had that nasty flu. I was overjoyed to read your happy news. It really has made my day. I, of course, missed Miss Winnie's picture but am waiting anxiously for your pictures. I am so glad that Miss Winnie chose you (yes, She really chose You whether you believe it or not!) because you are just the best mom in the world. I just knew this would happen as you are, obviously, so full of love it would be a shame not to share that with a little precious soul in need. Harley and Barkely must be really "whooping" it up right now, saying "That's our Mom!" What a wonderful tribute to them both.
God bless and best wishes for you and your little family.
Love & hugs,
Carrol & Chloe

[Roxee's Dad]

Woo Hoo.....today is the big day. Welcome home Winnie :D

[lulusmom]

WOOT, WOOT!!! Welcome home Winnie.

[StarDeb55]

I am so disappointed. The foster Mom said she would meet me at PetsMart at Tempe Marketplace when I got off work today, but she would call me last night to confirm everything. I did not hear from her, so rather than take a chance, I went on to PetsMart when I left the hospital. I sat in front of PM for 45 minutes, freezing my backside off, & no one showed. I got home & left a message with the rescue, so hopefully I will get a call back sometime tonight.

Debbie

[gpgscott]

Hi Deb,

So sorry that I am just seeing this thread this evening and even sorrier that the homecoming has been delayed. I am sure its nothing serious and I can imagine how anxious you are awaiting news.

Waiting on pins and needles with you.

Scott

[Bichonluver3]

Hi Debbie,
Just checking in. Let us know what happened. We are waiting........
Carrol

[StarDeb55]

4 PM this afternoon is the new pickup time at the PetsMart right by house. YIPEEEEE!!! Hopefully, the next post will be after pics are up.

Deb

[Roxee's Dad]

Wheeeew.....Can't wait :D:D:D

[jrepac]

this is like waiting for an unveiling :)

[StarDeb55]

CRAP!!! If I were superstitious, I would be thinking that this adoption is off to a really bad start. When I saw Winnie with the rescue last weekend I noticed a red, raw patch of skin on one of her elbows. I asked the foster mom if she had seen it, she said she noticed it earlier that day. She said that she could take her into the vet to get it checked. I said that I would like that to be done as I have another pup at home & want to make sure that it's nothing to worry about. Well, guess what!! IT'S FLIPPIN' RINGWORM!!! Rescue says that the vet said it's a pretty mild case, should take 10-14 days to get it cleared up, & they can't turn her over to me until she's treated. My response was that was absolutely fine by me as I have another pup at home, & I do not want him getting it, too.

I guess all of us are going to have to keep our pants on for 2 more weeks.

Debbie

[BestBuddy]

Hopefully all this happening will mean that all the bad stuff has happened before you get her, then no more problems.:D ever.

I will try to keep my pants on but it is really really hot here.;)

Jenny

[gpgscott]

Deb,

Hermes came home from Vandy's family farm with ringworm, I was infected.

It is not ususally passed to a healthy animal, I got it because of the constant close contact with Hermes who was a young kitten and cuddled against me constantly.

We used lime sulfer dips, there is also a systemic treatment but the systemic treatment is dangerous for certain breeds. I think the breeds at risk are herders.

Scott

[k9diabetes]

Congratulations on finding a new family member :) and sorry to hear that you will have to wait to take her home. That would be really really hard to do! So maybe a little ICK factor is a good thing to make it easier to wait.

Natalie

[StarDeb55]

Yes, the ICK factor is a good thing, Nat! The last thing I need is to end up treating both Chewy & myself for ringworm. Chew has enough coat/skin issues as it is, without adding this nasty little bugger into the mix.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Hi Deb,

Ringworm is like Demodex in that if an adult dog gets it, you automatically think compromised immune system. Is the ringworm confined to just a few areas or is it everywhere? A healthy adult dog is usually able to fight off the fungus and it is self limiting; however, if it becomes generalized and spreads everywhere, this would be a red flag that there is an underlying problem with the immune system. Has the rescue done any bloodwork for Winnie?

[StarDeb55]

As far as I know, the only patch is the one on her elbow. I will call the foster Mom at the beginning of the week, & ask a few more questions. The last thing I need right now is another "medically needy" dog, minor issues don't bother me, but major issues, I just can't cope with another big problem, so soon after losing Harley.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Deb, I'm glad you are going to do some more checking into Winnie's medical history. The red flags started going up when you mentioned ringworm because Mabel, also a Shih Tzu, came to us from the shelter with ringworm that got really bad....and then she got horrible demodex. I think you remember Mabel was ultimately diagnosed with cushing's. I'm with you and know that I can't handle another medically needy dog financially or emotionally right now.

[Marlene]

Debbie,
That really stinks that there is a hang-up with your adoption of Winnie. I understand completely about caring for another major medical problem. It is a concern of mine also. It would be difficult. Hopefully, this will be a minor glitch and you'll have a healthy Winnie soon!!

[addy]

Oh Deb, I sure am hoping Winnie has just a minor problem and she can come home.

It is probably good to recheck medical history, if any, as Glynda, suggests.

I just love the name, Winnie.:D So very cute.

Crossing everything that it all turns out well.

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

I'm very sad to report that I will be rescinding my adoption. I had a long discussion with my vet on the phone last night & he is absolutely not in favor of me taking this little girl. He told me that the proper treatment for ringworm is 1 month on a suitable oral antifungal, along with antifungal medicated baths to make sure the spores have all been killed. When I found out about the ringworm last week, the rescue told me it would only be a couple of weeks of treatment maximum. The bigger problem is Chewy has severe allergies which is a clear indication that his immune system is not firing on "all cylinders", so it would be a risk to him to bring this little girl home. Personally, after having cared for 2 severely medically compromised pups over the past 10 years or so, I just can't handle another one, either emotionally or financially. I'm still looking for a new family member, but it just won't be this little girl.

Debbie

[Bailey's Mom]

Debbie-I am "getting on the bus" late and have just read the entire saga. I even went to the site thinking I would see a picture.....and then read on.
I am so sorry this did not work out for you. From what you say, I think you are absolutely doing the right thing. You know, my ears twitched when you mentioned the difference in age facts.

It is oh so hard to wait....I know. I too believe this will work out as it is supposed to and there is a little furball out there who will step upon your doorstep when it's right. It's like waiting for Christmas morning. You know there will be a really cool package under the tree and you just have to wait.

Here's hoping your new package shows up sooner rather than later.

-Susan

[jrepac]

oh wow...I am so sorry to hear it did not work out; but I totally understand your feelings. I saw an Aussie I wanted to adopt and then read "Cushings Disease"....I could not deal with that right now...3 in a row would be too much for me...


Jeff & Angel Mandy

[Casey's Mom]

So sorry this didn't work out for you Deb but I totally understand you not wanting to take this on - especially with Chewy.:(

[frijole]

Bummer but I can soooooo understand the hesitancy to take on another medical challenge. It is draining and you deserve the chance to just relax and enjoy the love of your new pup. I am sure a lucky pup will find you before long. Hang in there. Kim

[addy]

Sorry about Winnie Deb, I understand how you feel expecially with your other pup having allergies.

It was not meant to be for some reason. That can be hard sometimes but the best way to look at it.

I thought Susan said it so well, comparing it to Christmas morning, not knowing what you may find:)

We tried so hard to find a playmate for Zoe. None of the dogs worked out. I kept giving up but then would look again a few months later after each disappointment. Then out of the clear blue sky, there was Koko at that same Animal Control Zoe came from. Sticking his tongue at me on his picture. I could not believe Amy from the rescue had another little dog. She usually has cats. Another lady wanted him but I got agressive. I was not losing this one. It was meant to be I guess, because home he came. Zoe was at emergency that morning, she hurt her paw and could not walk. When I went to pick up Koko he had kennel cough and green junk stuck all ove his face. What a mess.:eek: He was a total wild man, not house trained but the happiest, most joyful dog. It was six months of really hard work, really, really hard but in the end he was worth it.:D Next time I am getting one in foster care. At least you have an idea of what they know.;)

Hoping your little baby is right around the corner.

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

Addy, I'm really trying to stick with rescues only for that exact reason. With a rescue, you will have some idea as to what to expect. I may not be able to, as I am specifically looking for a Shih Tzu or Lhasa.

Debbie

[marie adams]

Hi Debbie,

So sorry to hear about your adoption falling through. There must be another wonderful little one waiting for just you and Chewy. The stars will align and poof there they are....:D

I finally caught my husband looking at puppies yesterday so we will explore that avenue. For us starting with an aussie puppy works because of their strong traits to want to run the show and very sensitive emotionally--I remember how Maddie was a holy terror as a puppy and we had to be very strong in guiding her in our pack, not yelling (tell me that wasn't hard to hold back when they were biting you with those sharp baby teeth and scratching you). I have looked at rescues, but I am nervous of what has happened to them to have them end up in rescue. Of course I know there are not problems with starting from scratch either.

My best to you on your journey!!!:):)

[addy]

Hi Deb,

There is a Shih Tzu rescue group that covers the Midwest, Arkansa, Florida, Nebraska, etc. New Beginnings Shih Tzu Rescue.

http://www.nbstr.org/Contact.html

I wonder if they may have contacts closer to you or a way of transport. I have not looked at their dogs in two years but I dealt with them then when I was looking for Koko. They were really nice people and back then had some nice dogs.

Just a thought :)

Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Deb-
Isn't the caring and helpfulness you get from this community just wonderful?! :) Addy's suggestion sounds wonderful. :D We all have pieces and together we make quite a remarkable whole.

Susan

[StarDeb55]

I almost hate to post this, as I'm afraid I will jinx myself, but this little boy will be coming home Weds. evening. He is about 2-3 yrs. old, definitely part Shih Tzu, what else, who knows? He's got legs like he's first cousin to a gazelle. This is a different rescue than the first one. One thing they do that I like is a 2 Week Foster to adopt program which is what I will be doing, just to make sure that everything is ok. I had to rush down to where this rescue was today, about a 20 mile drive from my house right after work. Fortunately, I had the presence of mind to bring Chew with me, They seemed to get along ok, did the "boy thing" of sniffing each others butts, but they were ok with it. I had already decided that if I did end up with a boy, his name is Obi-Wan, Obi for short. What the heck, I've got Chewbacca, so, now, I've got Obi-Wan.

Anyway, go to adoptable dogs on the following link, look for Danny Zuko. I'm glad I was changing names anyway, as I do not like the one he's got right, now.

http://www.desertpawsrescue.org/

Debbie

[frijole]

:D He's got attitude I can tell! Love it. Also think his hair coloring is interesting... perfect and unusual. Are you a Star Wars fan? :confused:;):):D

[Casey's Mom]

Danny Zuko - from Grease? Yes Obi-Wan and Chewy sound great together. He has amazing markings.:D

Good luck Deb!!

[StarDeb55]

Yes, I'm a Star Wars fan. It was either going to be Obi or Han, but I just liked the sound of Obi better. Ellen, thanks for the tip about where Danny Zuko came from, I was never a huge Grease fan.


Deb

[labblab]

Oh Deb, it's too bad you can't have a Chewy1 and a Chewy2 because this little guy REALLY looks a Chewbacca, also!!!!!!! :D :D :D

But Obi should fit him perfectly, as well ;). I'll be keeping all body parts crossed in hopes that this works out to be a perfect adoption.

Congrats!!!!!!!!
Marianne

[addy]

He's sooooo cute!!!!! I love his markings.

Hoping everything goes well and he comes home to his new Mommy. The age is good too:D

Waiting for homecoming photos.

Addy

[Sabre's Mum]

I absolutely agree with Marianne. One look at your new addition and I thought ... Chewbacca!!! The Star Wars theme in the family is fantastic ... since Chewbacca is taken .. Obi is great!

All the best
Angela and Flynn

[StarDeb55]

Thanks everyone! I beginning to feel very fortunate to have snagged this little boy. I stopped to talk to the rescue that I saw with a little Aussie mix girl last weekend, as they had posted a Tzu mix on Petfinder the past week or so. The coordinator proceeds to tell me that he has been adopted, the Aussie has been adopted, & she had another Tzu mix, along with a Lhasa mix that were adopted before she even posted them on the web. There was another group I talked to about a week ago who had a Tzu/Pom mix, along with what looked like a full blood Tzu, by the time I tracked their phone number down, these 2 were both gone. One begins to think that these 2 breeds are pretty popular in my area.

Debbie

[maggiebeagle]

I'll be hoping it works out.
Your boys will need to meet my Cailey, she sounds like an Ewok sometimes. :D

[Roxee's Dad]

Wow, I missed a day...He is beautiful :D very excited for you :D:D

[Bailey's Mom]

Debbie-he's so cute! He looks like he stuck his nose in left over fireplace ashes!!;)

Our first dog was a Pomepoo and she had the under bite like that. We never got around to getting her braces.;) She lived 17.25 years-what a blessing.:)

Do you know how old Obi is? Is he home yet?
-Susan

[wallyblue]

What a gorgeous baby! Let us know how old she is when you find out. 2 years and 7 years is quite a difference. I wonder how they could be that off. Rescues are the best.

[StarDeb55]

Thanks for posting, Wallyblue. Unfortunately, the original pup I posted about had a case of ringworm, & my vet strongly recommended that I not adopt her, so I did rescind the adoption. The discrepancy in the ages that were given was worrisome to me, also. I posted on Saturday that I will be adopting a little Shih Tzu mix boy, & will be bringing him home day after tomorrow.

Debbie

[marie adams]

Yeah Debbie,

I do agree at first he looked like Chewbacca, but Obi is soooo cute!!! I am so happy for you!! :) Now you and Chewy will have someone to fill that empty feeling. :)

Best to you!!!

[StarDeb55]

Thanks, Marie! I'm very happy to have an addition to the family. I think it will be good for both me & Chewy as life as seemed just a little too quiet with only one pup in the house.

Debbie

[Squirt's Mom]

He is precious, Debbie! Best of luck to you all!

[bkdice]

Debbie! I'm just catching up on this whole thread. I'm sorry the first pup didn't work out. I had ringworm that I got from a cat in 8th grade. It was a BAD case of it. It took a few weeks to go away, and a few more weeks for the scarring to fade. :( The rescue I work with had an outbreak of ringworm with a group of cats. It took about 6-8 weeks for those kitties to get the all clear for being shown and adopted out.

Anyway... I am thrilled with your new addition. You get him tomorrow? He is SO CUTE! Reminds me a bit of a brussels griffon - particularly the one from "As Good as it Gets"

Congrats to you! I hope he helps warm your heart. There is never a 'replacement', but new love can help you heal. :) Looking forward to updates!

[StarDeb55]

I am hoping the Sas sees this as I trust her wealth of knowledge on dog behavior. Obi will be coming home tomorrow evening. I'm not exactly nervous, but just want to make sure things go well for both Chewy & him.

Chewy is a very laid back kind of fellow, nothing ever seems to bother him. The other thing is that Chewy is pretty much blind, now, so I'm not sure how much of an effect a new family member will have on him. They were introduced briefly when I met Obi with the rescue group last weekend. I walked them around together. They did the sniffing, smelling of each others backends thing & neither of them got upset with that. I know that you kind of need to let them work out the pack order for themselves, but I, also, know that I need to be clear that I am the pack leader, & will not tolerate bad, aggressive behavior between them. I, also, know that you always need to do things for the "alpha" first, such as give treats, put food down, etc. I'm mostly concerned because of Chew's blindness, & don't want this to turn into a major trauma for either dog. I'm not to sure about Obi's age, rescue is say 18 months-2 years, my guess would be 2-3 years. Chewy is 10.

Thanks, Sas!

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Debbie :)

What on earth you need my input for....you already know so much and know it so well ;)

It's close to midnight here so for now a short response...more or less to let you know I will be responding when you're asleep probably so when you wake up tomorrow morning I will have something for you :)

But I have one question... Can you tell me what will be the arrangements on "pick up" day? Will you bring Chewy with you to pick up Obi? If so, will they be in seperate crates during the trip home? And is there a possibility for you to make a stop, before you return home? So that you could take a "get to know each other" break on neutral territory? That would be ideal...a get-to-know-each-other on neutral territory :)

Another thing to keep in mind with rescues is that they can start out more "shy" then their actual original nature..just because of all the changes they go through. Not saying this will be the case but there's a possibility. So my personal opinion is to always start a bit "strict" with a newcomer...lay down the groundrules from the moment he enters your car. Once you know his true character, you can always loosen the rules some... The other way around is much harder :) I would not give them chewy treats or other high vallued things without them being in their own place, not untill you know how they respond to each other, how they respond to "possessions" etc. I'm not sure if you're in the habbit of having toys laying around the house for Chewy...but I would pick them up and put them away before you bring Obi home, just to avoid possible problems. And especially, those first days, be very clear on what you want, what you don't want, what's acceptable and what's not :)

You know all this already :) Hoping everything will go as smooth as possible and there won't be any "turmoil" at all.

Will write some more tomorrow.

For now, sweet dreams and I'm so very happy for you....all three of you :)

Saskia and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Thanks, Sas! I had not made up my mind whether to bring Chewy with me or not. I don't have crates as Chewy can't use one. He will soil in his crate, & I can't having him laying in a soiled crate with his skin/coat issues. I was trying to think of a way to make the introduction on neutral territory, but Chewy would probably have to come with me, & we can stop at a park close to my house. I'm not sure Chewy views the car quite as his yet, because he has really only been riding since Harley passed. I had never thought about picking up toys as Chewy has his "babies" scattered all over the house, but I don't want that as a "bone of contention", so I will most definitely get them picked up. Obi came across as kind of rambunctious when I met him at the rescue, but I attributed that to being with the other pups from rescue, the shoppers coming in/out of PetsMart, etc. The one thing I did notice was while people would be at the fence of the pen the rescue were in to take a look at them, all of the other dogs are at the fence barking, & having a fit, "Pet me, Pet me!" Obi was the fence, but seemed a little more calm, & absolutely did not bark. His foster mom said that he is not a barker at all. About the only time she has heard him, is when he gets really excited. I have bought some toys that Obi can call his own. After your initial thoughts, I'm thinking that it might be best to hold up both boy's toys until everyone settles in.

Looking forward to your further insights.

Thanks,
Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Deb,

I will simply tell what I would think is the best way to introduce both dogs and then you can see if you can arrange it that way or come up with some plan closest to what would be preferable.

Okay, you drive to the shelter with Chewy and preferably take someone else with you. (not sure how you transport Chewy without a crate) I would try and borrow a crate if possible and place it in your car for Obi. Inside the crate I would put a blanket that was used by Chewy so during the ride he can already get accustomed to Chewy’s smell.
At the shelter, let both dogs sniff and meet but keep them on a leash, preferably with 2 people, each holding one leash. Don’t let them sniff too long (sniffing too long could escalate) and watch their body language. If one starts staring, raises it’s hair, growls, etc. at the other one, distract them immediately. Praise them if the sniffing goes well, distract them, give a treat, speak with a happy voice and walk around for a little bit with both dogs. (walking will give them something to do besides becoming pre occupied with each other) During the walk let them sniff at each other occasionally but keep walking. It’s harder for dogs to get in trouble if you keep moving.

Now, put Obi in the crate in your car and Chewy, where you always have him. This will also prevent that you may have to intervene during the car ride…in which case you’ll always be second to react since you have to drive as well. If Obi protests and whines, let him. Ignore the behaviour, don’t even speak to him to calm him down.

Now, if you have the chance, I would do the meet and greet all over again on neutral territory, the same manner as I described above. (you see why a second person would come in handy, sine each person can handle one dog)

When you arrive at home, make sure they are both on their leash. Before you go in the house, make sure both dogs are calm. If Obi is very excited, do not enter the house but walk around till he has calmed down. Once they both are calm, enter the house and make sure you enter first, let both dogs wait before you let them enter. (this will set some groundrules right away for Obi and it will help prevent a uncontrollable entrance where Obi might be all excited and start racing through the house or something similar. It is YOUR house and you let them know how to behave in it. (of course, especially meant for Obi)

If you have seen a clear sign of which of both dogs is the higher ranked during the introductions, act accordingly. Whether it’s Chewy or Obi, treat them according to that hierarchy. Meaning, let the “dominant” one choose where it wants to lay, feed it first, etc. If there’s no such clear hierarchy yet, observe them well in the days ahead till you see which is the dominant one. As long as the hierarchy isn’t clear yet, pay close attention to them and prevent any fights from breaking out. You have to be able to put your own “preference” aside if needed. It’s logical you would “favour” Chewy over Obi but if their ranking puts them in a different order, go with that. If both dogs have decided that (for example) Obi is the dominant one, you treating Chewy as the dominant one (by feeding him first, cuddling him more because you feel sorry, etc) would only cause problems. They have their ranks worked out but your actions say otherwise and this will lead to the dominant one trying to make his ranking even more clear. Luckily, most dogs will establish ranking just with posture and body language.

For the first few days, I would just let them be….as much as possible. No toys, no bones or other things that can cause a fight between them. Let them settle and get used to the new situation. Go for frequent walks if possible (good for bonding) and use a lot of positive reinforcement. Be happy, praise every little thing that goes well…

And if you do run into any problem, no matter how small, let me know and I will help and advise the best I can.

Have a wonderful day!

Saskia and Yunah :)

[frijole]

Good luck today Deb. Thinking of you ... how exciting. Kim

[addy]

Don't forget to take pictures of the homecoming if you can.

A nice walk together before coming in the house always is a good thing!!!:D

Tons of hugs and wishes for good luck.

Addy

[Bailey's Mom]

Wow-I had no idea introducing a second dog into a situation would be so complicated. So-is the expanded family home now? How is it going? How are YOU doing? Anxious to hear all about it.

-Susan

[StarDeb55]

He's not here, yet. I don't leave to pick him up for another hour. The foster mom doesn't get off until 5, has a 1 hour one way commute, so the earliest she can meet me is 7PM. I was trying to pick a place in the middle, but she lives so far south of here, that middle ended up being the PetsMart I met Obi at last weekend. That's about 18-20 miles for me, so we will be out of here about 630PM. I may not post tonight as it probably is going to be a little hectic.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

OMG, I have a wild man on my hands!! I took them for a quick walk, both did fine. I got them in the house, & Obi immediately starts trying to mark everywhere. Now, he's racing around like the Indy 500, bedtime may be kind of late tonight. More later.

Debbie

[addy]

LOL Oh, Deb, it sounds like my Koko's homecoming:D

I hope you sneak a picture!!!!!!!!

Also hope you get some sleep.;)

Hugs,
Addy

[frijole]

OMG, I have a wild man on my hands!! I took them for a quick walk, both did fine. I got them in the house, & Obi immediately starts trying to mark everywhere. Now, he's racing around like the Indy 500, bedtime may be kind of late tonight. More later.

Debbie

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

OMG I am soooo happy for you. That sounds like the night I brought Annie home. (She was 1 yr old) She jumped on top of every piece of furniture I had, peed in my bed where she slept, didn't look up when I spoke (she didn't know one word)....

Obi just needs some love...and you are perfect. Can't wait for the photos.

xoxo
Kim

[BestBuddy]

Debbie,

Oh dear, your wild man will calm down soon. I had the same problem when we got Luke home. As soon as I took him off leash inside the house the first time he did what we now refer to as a SPR (speed pee race) and ran through the house trying to leave his mark everywhere. I didn't know he could walk anywhere because he raced as if he was in a hurry for quite a few days, thanks heavens the SPR only lasted that first night. He now walks around nicely MOST of the time.:D

You are going to be so worn out and you will love it. It's one of those good tireds.

Jenny

[Bailey's Mom]

OMG! I think I'm real glad I picked a female. Thankfully we did not go through that with Palmer. I had heard that if you get them neutered before they are 6 months that they might not lift their legs. That worked for us. Palmer occasionally would kind of half lift a leg, but he never knew he was "supposed to" so he didn't.

I hope you rested up! - Susan

[SasAndYunah]

Oh dear, sounds like a neuter appointment will be in place :D

Sas and Yunah :)

[bernie47]

I remember the day we brought , Ebonie home , the owner had obviously wormed her ...and she did the biggest poop just inside my front door :rolleyes:..she was only paper trained and hubby always put his newspaper beside the lounge ..neither to say just what she did to that .. cant wait to see pictures .. wish you all the best ..Deb & co ;)

paws crossed :)...Catherine & Natcho ..

[StarDeb55]

It's been a long night. Obi finally got the message that it was time to settle down to sleep when I shut the bedroom door so he couldn't go wandering around the house. I had tried to put him in the crate, that didn't go over well at all. I tried putting him in the pen in the front room, with those gazelle legs, he jumped that like it wasn't there. This will present a problem when I go to work as the pen is where Chew stays while I'm gone.

Obi has very little leash, walking experience as he was all over the place last night. I hope that with daily walks, & Chew as an example, he will catch on, I think.

Sas, he has been neutered, but the foster mom did warn me that he had a tendency to mark, but she figured that was because she had 6 pups at the present time. My problem is that with Harley's cushing's I know my house has all sorts of wonder smells which is what Obi is smelling. Chewy had pretty much quit marking when Harley was gone. I'm hoping that this, too, shall pass. I know Chew was very upset last night because he was trying to sleep on top of my head at one point. It didn't help matters that I had taken some sinus medicine late afternoon, that ended up making get up every 2 hours to pee myself. Obi, caught on pretty quickly that every time I got up that it wasn't necessary for him to get up. There were no major squawks between boys last night. A couple of times, Obi jumped on the bed, landed on Chew, & Chew let him know that was not acceptable. I don't have clear signs as to who is going to be "alpha", but I'm doing my best to let them work it out. We are just getting up, I made everyone go outside. Hopefully, Obi took care of business. I am off to breakfast down, & get something to eat myself. I will not tell a lie last night was pretty rough, & Chewy looking at me like I had lost my mind. There were a couple of times I was thinking that if I don't see definite signs of improvement by the first of the week, he's got to go back I told Chew that we both need to give him time. It's a new place, he's young, & checking things out. Based on his behavior last night, I seriously doubt that he's any older than 18 months, one of the big tip-offs is he still wants to chew on everything, including my hands.

Sas, I have to go out for about 3 hours this afternoon, & with Obi being able to jump that kennel fence in the front room, the only thing I can think of to do for a temporary fix is shut him in the front bathroom. I'm not a big fan of doing that, but I don't want him having free reign in the house without me being here.

I am going to try to take a nap after breakfast, then get dressed, & take them for a walk. Hopefully, pictures this afternoon.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Got one more issue. The foster mom said that she free fed all of the dogs. I can't do that or Chew would eat until he popped. I feed twice a day. I put breakfast down, Chewy tried to grab Obi's in the kitchen. I got Chew where he normally eats. Obi didn't want to eat in the kitchen, so I put his dish on the other side of the room from Chew was. He could care less about eating. I figure he will eat when he get hungry.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Debbie,

Was he neutered just recently? Marking can have several causes apart from the obvious “male hormones”, for example some dogs “mark” because they are insecure and marking will help them feel more secure surrounded by familiar smells. But given your description, I doubt that’s the case here…

In order to stop the marking behaviour (hopefully) you’ll have to be very observant because you must catch him in the act. (this may mean you’ll have to confine him to just one room for now so you can watch him at all times) Every time you see Obi lift a leg (preferable sooner, when you can tell he is wanting to lift his leg, sniffing, circling, etc) you say “no pee” (or anything else you would rather say) a, clear, simple no pee. Don’t yell, don’t come running towards him… And this is what you do every time you catch him wanting to mark. You could try adding an empty plastic bottle and fill it with some coins or pebbles. When you see him wanting to mark, you shake the bottle once (make sure the bottle makes a lot of noise) to get his attention and the moment he looks up you say “no pee”. (firm voice but no yelling)

To clean the places where he has marked you could try a 50/50 solution of vinegar and water.

About leaving him this afternoon, I would say you are right to confine him to the bathroom but makes sure there is nothing “dangerous” there for him to eat, destroy, etc. If you have a kong, leave a kong with him in the bathroom filled with something yummie.

About the free reign of the house, at this moment I don’t think he should have free reign even when you are there. It seems to be too much for him at this moment so keep him in the room with you and first make sure he feels secure and knows how to behave (no marking, no chewing, etc) before you give him free reign.

And, I would try and walk him a lot. This way he can burn off some energy so he won’t be so “wild” and you can reward him extensively for marking behaviour outside. Not peeing, but marking. You don’t want him to learn that marking is bad, you want him to learn that marking inside the house is bad. So inside the house…whenever he wants to mark…”no pee” and outside when he is marking “ good pee” (happy voice, clapping your hands etc)

Oh and about the food… I wouldn’t worry. Just feed him twice a day. If he doesn’t eat his food then take the bowl away after 15 minutes. With dinnertime, give him again a bowl with food. He’ll learn quickly enough he gets fed 2 times a day and he should eat or else he has to wait till the next meal.

Saskia and Yunah :)

[addy]

Can you stack two baby/pet gates on top of each other at the bathroom door and leave the door open?

Don't want to scare you but I went through similar with Koko and when I put him in the bathroom he got so upset he pooped and peed and got it all over. I made the mistake of allowing him free reign based on advice from a rescue friend. Used one of those belly bands.

MY BIG MISTAKE. :eek:

Is he crate trained? We puppy proofed our kitchen and started locking both dogs there when we had to leave. I felt bad for Zoe, really bad that I had to lock her up but she really did not mind;) I was the one that cared:rolleyes:

Once we got into that routine, our 9 month old stray settled right down.:rolleyes::D Wished I would have done that in the beginning:rolleyes:

Thought maybe some of this might help you.


Hugs,
Addy

P.S. I think I threatened to return Koko five hundred times, I never did. He chewed up every pillow in my house:D:p:p:p It is worth it in the end.

[StarDeb55]

Addy, I tried the crate I brought him home in last night as he would not settle down. That went over like a lead brick, he got even more upset, which upset Chew. I'm going to go look at taller pens when I leave as I do not like the bathroom idea at all. The crate I used last night was one of the enclosed ones, I might consider one of the open wire ones.

We just got back from our first walk with no major catastrophes. Rescue gave me a harness for Obi which he fights like a wild man trying to get it on him, so I just stuck with hooking the leash to his collar. He caught on fairly quickly, but he has so much energy, & just wants to go, go, go with those long legs. Chew & I are the "old folks", & we're kind of slow. The only scare was Obi took off after another dog he saw crossing the street, a block away, I didn't have the lead on lock, he jerked the handle out of my hand. I'm hollering at him, trying to get Chew moving to go after Obi, Chew pops his head out of his collar. Fortunately, Chew knows when that collar pops off, he stops dead in his tracks. Got Chew collared, & when the handle on the lead had gone flying, & hit the sidewalk, it apparently startled Obi enough that he stopped dead, & waited for us to catch up with him. Obi got a huge amount of praise for stopping & waiting, even though it was an accident.

Debbie

PS- For the old folks, that was a long walk. I didn't think it would burn a lot of energy from the wild man, but the good news is Obi is laying on the corner of the bed, drifting off to sleep.

[labblab]

Debbie, even though logistically it may be a real hassle for you, you may want to walk both boys separately -- at least for a while -- since there is such a difference in their energy levels and activity needs. That is one of the big changes that I had to make when we added Luna to the family. With the four year age difference between her and Peg, she remains super energetic and really requires a different style of walk to burn off her energy. Peg is much more deliberate now, and gets a lot more mental stimulation from stopping to sniff and explore. Luna just needs to flat-out burn the pavement. The negative trade-off is that each one doesn't get walked as often, but when they DO go out, it's at their own pace. Just a thought.

Marianne

[SasAndYunah]

I couldn't agree with Marianne more...take Obi on seperate walks in between the regular ones :) And even though he may not loose some of that energy by running around, physical exercise, walks are very good for satisfying doggy needs...things that dogs need to do to be dogs and therefore not be so stressed because they are frustrated they cannot do doggy things :D It's the sniffing, the marking, the sights and smells, the experiences during the walk that will satisfy their doggy needs and will relax them... You have a sleepy Obi on your bed to proof it ;)

On a personal level, I am not a fan of the retractable leashes. If you look at the dogs on those retractable leashes, you will see that most dogs walk yards ahead of their owner, walk from left to right, etc. And owners will let them... The recipee for a "walking disaster" :) With a fixed leash, your dog will still have room to sniff that tree at the corner but he will also be much more easy to handle. And anyway, dogs are not supposed to walk in front of you (on leash) so in my opinion there's no need for a retractable leash at all. For good leash manners, I always recommend a fixed leash, works best all the time :)

I am not sure how the weather is where you live but it would be great if you could have some playtime outside in the yard (if possible) with Obi. Another moment for him to burn some energy and a great way to get to know each other better and bond. See if he likes to play fetch...or hide and seek for example. Try to actively add some fun these first days, you don't want to end up saying "no"... "no" to him all the time. Even if he doesn't behave all that great at the moment, he's doing what he knows to do and your task will be to show him other ways. But prevent that it will become a "negative" thing with lots of no's...add fun, games and lots of praise and treats when he does something the right way. Like laying on your bed, calmly, dozing off, that's worth a reward :) Many people forget to reward this kind of spontaneous good behaviour...but even when he simply sits calmly next to you (without you asking him first) praise him. Find all the good you can...and enjoy :)

Saskia and Yunah :)

[gpgscott]

Hi Deb,

Very glad you have a new one, I remember well the settling in period.

Sounds like you are getting good advice, reminds me of what a friend of mine once said about golf; "its a good game if you can stand all the advice":D

Welcome Obi:)

Scott

[StarDeb55]

The separate walks are a great idea. Chew just can't go all that far, Mom can't exactly either, yet. After the panic attack, when the retractable lead was jerked from my hand, that pretty much decided me to go back to a standard leash.

I just got home, the bathroom wasn't destroyed. I bought a pet gate, (Thanks, Addy!), at PetsMart while I was out that is 52" high to block off the kitchen. If Obi jumps that, he is a miracle dog. Also, he is a smart little devil. I had left the crate in front of my dresser last night. I heard Obi kind of banging around the crate, & I thought he was in it. (Bad mom was sitting at the computer a few feet away.) I heard something fall off the dresser, & the little devil has climbed on top of the crate to get to the toys & other good things I had stacked on the dresser. He's not dumb to have figured that out.

Debbie

[addy]

Oh Deb, it will be wonderful, just takes a bit to adjust and the hardest part is where to keep them. Once that is straightened out, the rest falls into place.

I am so happy for you and your new family member.:D:D:D:D

WELCOME HOME OBI:):):):D:D:D:D:D

Waiting for pictures,

Addy

[StarDeb55]

Obi is catching on pretty quick. I got my pajamas on, got everyone in the bedroom, & shut the door. I laid down, & darn if he doesn't get on the bed & settle right down. You talk about a little one who is trying very hard to be liked, at one point in time, he comes up by my pillow, flops down with his head on my shoulder. Those big black eyes are peering at me, like he's saying, "I'm trying to be good. Please give me a chance because I would like to stay." The other good news is that he & Chew, at one point, were almost laying side by side. Chew is much less stressed tonight, resting comfortably on the bed, & isn't wanting to get up on top of me, trying to get away from Obi.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Hi Deb,

The first 24 hours is always the worst and then they start to settle in. I'm glad to hear that things seem to be going pretty darn good at your house. Me thinks Obi will pass probation. :D

[bernie47]

Oh Debbie.. reading your posts , my heart goes out to you
with Natcho 10 kg and Ebonie 3.7 kg , my little girl just couldn't keep up with the big one .. so Ebonie got first walk around the block .. and then Natcho second , but a longer walk than Ebonie ..;) hope things get better real fast for you .. Catherine .:)

[frijole]

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Loving it Deb. Kim

[SasAndYunah]

Love the sound of that :D Everyone in or on the bed as one happy family :p

Have a great day with the boys...!

Sas and Yunah :)

[addy]

at one point in time, he comes up by my pillow, flops down with his head on my shoulder. Those big black eyes are peering at me, like he's saying, "I'm trying to be good. Please give me a chance because I would like to stay."



awwwwww, awwwwww, awwwww:D:D:D:D:D

Deb I hope you know how we are all loving "Adventures with Obi"

Keep the updates coming and have the best day ever:D

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

Pictures are up. There are only 3 so far. Sorry for the delay as I couldn't find my USB cable to transfer them from the camera to the computer.

Update day #3. Obi is progressing nicely. I had to run out this afternoon to pick up my new glasses, so this was the first test of the new gate. Everything was fine. He was so happy to see me when I came in the door, but dashed out into the garage, the garage door was on it's way down. The little devil is so darn fast, he was under the garage door before I had time to think. Fortunately the garage door has one of those sensors that if it sees anything blocking it's path, it will start back up. That gave me time to get my stuff in the house, & go back after him. He ran across the street to visit the dogs he heard barking at the gate. I jogged over there, called him, & he ran up to me. He rolled over on his back, & piddled a little bit, which I think is his way of saying, "Oops, I goofed. Didn't mean to do that." I know better, now. I will make sure that the garage door is all the way down before I step into the kitchen. Just another thing to add to the list that Obi has to learn, that he can't go out to the garage unless Mom gives the OK.

I seriously think we will be ok. It's obvious to me that the little guy has had absolutely no training on even the basics of good canine behavior. This morning's walk went well. Obi & I went by ourselves, so he could go at the pace he needs to. I laid down when we got back & so did both boys, so I think I might have actually taken him far enough to wear him down a little.

Sas, I do have one question. I am back to work tomorrow. Chewy is used to spending his time in that portable pen/run, whatever you call it, when I leave the house. I hate to disrupt Chewy's routine even further, just yet, by moving him to the kitchen with Obi. Chew is so used to the pen, all I have to tell him is "it's time", & he will go right in. I have a tendency to be as gentle with Chew as I can, now, because he is basically blind. Obi was a huge change for him. Now, he has to deal with the gate across the kitchen door when he had no obstacles going through the house. I think you can see that I hate to add another change right away for Chewy, & this is strictly because of his blindness.

Debbie

[Roxee's Dad]

Just love that face....how can you not ! Some long legs, no wonder he can jump so high ;)

[SasAndYunah]

Debbie,

I agree, for now that's a very good solution to leave them each in their own area :) Seems Obi has no problems with it and for Chewy it will be easier... I would not leave them alone together unless I was absolutely sure neither would "suffer" the consequences. And if you start leaving them togehter, a workday would not be a good first time since it will be way too long :) So for now keep them in their own area's and once you're confident enough and both guys are familiar enough, you can start by leaving them together for short periods first :)

Obi's so incredably cute and I am so happy he's adjusting this well and with such ease. Have a good day at work and a happy homecoming :D

Sas and Yunah :)

[Marlene]

Debbie,
It is so good to get caught up on and read your posts. Obi is really cute. It sounds like it is going to work out with this sweet little guy. I am happy for you!!!:)

[StarDeb55]

The first day at work went fine. I had gone out & got Obi a Kong yesterday just to be on the safe side, filled it with the Kong peanut butter filling, & froze it. Handed it to him as I was going out the door, & told him to have a good time. The kitchen was still in 1 piece when I got home about an hour ago.

Thanks for confirming what I thought about the arrangements for the boys when I'm at work, Sas! Chewy is slowly adjusting, & even if they don't become true buddies, as long as Chewy tolerates Obi I will be ok with that. Harley & Chewy never really were pals, but Harley did tolerate Chewy. Even though Chewy probably outweighed Harley by 10-12 lbs., Harley did not hesitate to put Chew in his place when he felt it necessary. I can see signs that this is the interaction between Chewy & Obi right now. I know a lot of people who don't like the idea of letting their pups sleep with them, but I have had pups sleeping with me for 20 years or more. I think the new sleeping arrangements are working out as Chewy has always slept at the foot of the bed. Chew has already kind of told Obi, "Look fella, this is my place, go find your own." Obi seems to have decided to take Harley old spot up next to my pillow which works for me. Obi seems to like to stretch out right against me, & as long as he is, that is a LOT OF ROOM!!

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

So glad it went well on your first day at work :D And oh yeah, I too have Yunah sleep on my bed :D :D :D And just to be safe...I deworm myself everytime I deworm Yunah :p :p :p Small "price" to pay for having her next to me ;)

Sas and Yunah :)

[Bailey's Mom]

Debbie- I was just rereading the past 3-4 pages. I think it's very considerate of you to go through all this so that I will have lots of second hand experience when Little Miss arrives home.;)
I had a couple of thoughts to share.
Remember my telling about Peaches and the playpen that didn't work? Well I had forgotten that after we gave up on the crate and on the play pen we shut her in the bathroom. She dug grooves in the wood on the bottom of the door. A lot of grooves. Then we tried the gate thing. We got a 2 foot high gate. First time we tried it, when we got home she was out. Then we tried a 3ft gate. It was not long before she figured out how to get out of that. Finally we put the 2ft gate on top of the 3 ft gate. That contained her but she started digging at the bottom where the gate was. This was in our kitchen. When we moved in that house the kitchen had indoor/outdoor carpeting on the floor. One day I dropped an egg and by the time I could grab a sponge, when I looked back down, I could not find the egg. :eek::eek: You could not tell anything had dropped at all. That made me wonder what else was in that carpet. :confused::confused: I never liked the idea of the carpet and I never liked indoor/outdoor carpet and I definitely did not like the avocado/lime design and color of this carpet. Well, as Peaches dug at the bottom by the gate she started digging up the carpet. That kind of carpet, when a thread comes loose, it just runs and runs. It was not long before she had a good 9" torn up by the door to the dining room. And when she did this digging it shot the rubber backing out the other way....so we always had a little pile of rubber to pick up when we got back. It sped up replacement flooring. I wasn't happy about that and we could not afford it but somehow we found the money to do it.

One other thought-to anyone who uses gates....one reason we stopped the gate was because I was worried that Peaches, by jumping to try to get out, would get her collar caught on the gate and hang herself. I surely didn't want to come home to Peaches "blowing in the wind!!" :eek::eek: I think we then started removing her collar. It was not long after all that that she had run of the house. :)

I think we have a couple of options here for the new house member. There are closing doors with glass in them. There are separate areas where she can come with me. If we need to pen her in, we have a seciton of short hallway with a door at one end. We can easily put up a gate at the other end-or at both ends. From the doored end she will be able to see the front doot.

We too have slept with our doggies. With Peaches, for a long time, she would sleep in our bedroom with her own little bed beside me and then later another two feet away, out of the way of foot traffic. It's kind of hard to remember now-but she either liked that arrangement all the time or she wound up sleeping on the bed near the end. That bed wasn't really big enough for 3 of us. In this house, Palmer would start out at the foot of the bed. Some time during the night he moved up between our pillows. When it was cold, he would burrow his way down under the sheets and usually put his back up next to Bob's. It got kind of crowded for Bob sometimes (often!) but he managed. Once Palmer was gone it took him awhile to "reclaim" his 1/2 of the bed!:)

-Susan

[StarDeb55]

Thanks, Susan! My house is all ceramic tile floors where the dogs stay when I'm gone, so there's no digging up carpet. So far, I've seen Obi make no attempt at jumping the gate. ( Did you see the picture of the gate with Obi behind it?) The gate actually hits me about chest high which means it's slightly over 4 ft. high. I must retract what I said about nothing happening yesterday in the kitchen. I have a breakfast nook with bay windows & venetian blinds over those windows. I normally leave the blinds down. I noticed when we got back from our walk, that Obi had tackled the ends of 2 out of 3 of them. A couple of slats bent out of place, some chew marks, but no major damage. I just chalk it up as the price you pay for living with a dog, especially a young dog.

I decided to take Chewy with us today as he seemed so interested in going, I didn't have the heart to leave him. Chewy did very well. Of course, Obi & I have to go slower with Chew along. I did get a chuckle, though, as I noticed that Chew seemed to be quite perky, trying to walk a quickly as his little short legs could go. He was down right spunky compared to the first walk together on Thursday morning. Looks like Obi is starting to have a positive effect on Chew.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

I got a very pleasant suprise a few minutes ago. I was at the kitchen counter fixing Chewy's pills in a Pill Pocket. Of course, Obi has already associated the kitchen counter with food, so he is jumping up/down, on top of me trying to see what I have. Out of desperation, I pointed my finger at him, & told him, "Obi. sit!" Son of a gun, he dropped right down. He didn't hold the sit very long, so when he started, again, I did the same thing. He went into a great sit. I told him to "Stay", which he did, until I gave him the OK to release. I really figured the little guy would have no clue what I wanted. This tells me that someone had him long enough to get him started on some very basic obedience.

Debbie

[AlisonandMia]

. Out of desperation, I pointed my finger at him, & told him, "Obi. sit!" Son of a gun, he dropped right down. He didn't hold the sit very long, so when he started, again, I did the same thing. He went into a great sit. I told him to "Stay", which he did, until I gave him the OK to release. I really figured the little guy would have no clue what I wanted. This tells me that someone had him long enough to get him started on some very basic obedience.



Wow! That doesn't happen very often with a rescue! There is one other, even better possibility and that is that Obi could be one of those very, very rare animals that is born "trained" - or more correctly is freakishly good at reading the human mind and responding appropriately.

When I was a teenager, a friend of mine had an Australian Cattle Dog like this. We know he never received any formal training because she got him at 5 weeks of age (he was a little sprawling white blob of a thing when he first arrive at their place, I remember). With that dog all you did was have a quiet conversation with him, explain what you wanted, and he did it! I imagine he would have been a "super dog" if he had also had some formal training (which he never did) but as it was he was pretty impressive. He was possibly the smartest dog I've ever seen at least with regards getting it right with humans. I've also been fortunate enough to have a horse like that myself and it took me an embarrassingly long time for me to twig that she wasn't even broken in when I started riding her! (I had got her under very strange circumstances and her past was shrouded in mystery.)

If I was asked to bet on the breeds in Obi's make up I reckon I'd have said poodle and pug. (Coloring is very pug.) I wouldn't bet more than 5 cents though as I'm probably wrong! Are you going to have his DNA looked at at some point?

Sounds like the little guys are settling in well together.:D

Alison

[Bailey's Mom]

Debbie-it sounds like you are having great fun. :D Here's hoping the training continues to go smoothly and surprisingly!

Does anyone have an idea about how much DNA testing runs?
Also-has anyone ever seen a purebred poodle with multi colors? Little Miss's Dad looks unlike anything I've ever seen in a poodle. I'll put in a picture of Mom and Dad. Mom is gorgeous!

Sorry-I seem to have crossed over threads here.

Keep the stories coming Debbie!
Susan

[BestBuddy]

Hi Susan,

We wondered about what was mixed in Luke when we got him so did a DNA test here. It cost us about $145aud and gave me something I never would have guessed....he was poodle and shiba inu.:eek:

I do wonder what Obi has mixed in.

Jenny

[lulusmom]

You can purchase a dna kit on ebay for $39 called the Wisdom Panel Insights Dog DNA Test. This is a swab kit for owners that is fairly new and it identified 170+ breeds. I used to be able to get the professional blood kit for the same price that identifies 200 breeds but you have to have a vet do the blood draw. The kit is complete with mailing package so it's super easy. We've done DNA tests on three rescues and my Jojo. As some of you recall, Jojo is a Pomeranian/Japanese Chin mix.

[StarDeb55]

Glynda, I just googled this test kit & the cost is now $80, getting it directly from the manufacturer. Where did you see it for $39?

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Obi is catching onto the routine pretty quickly. Thanks for the suggestion about "good pee" vs. "no pee", Sas! I haven't caught him trying to mark ing the house since I got home from work on Saturday. I, also, know that when I get up on workdays which is 330AM, I have to got out with him or he will not pee. Right now, that's not a problem since it's not terribly cold, but the next 3 days may be a problem as the Phoenix area is posted for major freeze warnings. He will not poo when he goes out in the morning, but seems to want to poo about 20 minutes later which means I have poop cleanup in the house before I can leave. One of my friends suggested putting him in the yard, closing the dog door, & leaving him out there for the 20-30 minutes until I'm finished getting dressed. I'm not exactly a fan of that idea as I worry that he will start barking & raising a fuss, waking my neighbors. Now, with the cold weather, I'm really not a fan of leaving him out for any length of time.

The problem that is annoying now, is that Obi is "mouthy" & trying to chew on everything including me. I will push his mouth away, & say "NO BITE!", but that's not terribly effective. I know puppies are mouthy like this as a way to help get acquainted with their environment. I was also reading that in a young dog, they do this when they have spent long periods of time in some type of kennel or shelter situations without many socialization opportunities. I intend to stop tomorrow & get him something like rawhide chew bones, but am definitely in need of other suggestions, as sometimes he nips at me in other places besides my hands, & it can get a little uncomfortable.

Debbie

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Debbie,

When Franklin was going to puppy pre school they told us about something called 'bite inhibition', which means the pup learns that teeth hurt, and also discovers the pressure which is allowable.
All us parents were told to yelp when our babies got mouthy. It's normal puppy learning. When one puppy plays too rough with another, the puppy yelps and ignores the rough one for a little while.

This worked with Franklin chewing on my hands, and also the clothes I was wearing (wristbands, hems).

Hope that helps,
Jane, Franklin and Angel Bailey xxx

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Deb,

Well, we have already learned that Obi is a smart little pup doing so wel with the good pee/bad pee :D

And now there are 3 other things you have questions about. The early morning poo, the chewing and the nipping...right?

About the early mornng (middle of the night rather) poo. First of all, I am pretty impressed that Obi will poo at all at that time :p It seems that, like many, Obi needs to get his body going before he can poo. As far as I understand from your post, the situation right now is that you wake up, Obi goes outside to pee, comes back in, eats, walks around a bit as you get dressed etc and then about 20 minutes later he will poo. If this is the case, you could try to do it a bit different. I assume he doesn't really have to pee right away? So perhaps you can first feed him, get dressed and then let him out to pee and poo? That way his body has been "active" for a bit already which makes pooing easier :) And whenever he poo's, be sure to be very happy about it and say "Good poo" :D (that is, whenever he poo's outside) He'll pretty quickly will understand what the word "poo" (or which word you choose for it) means and after a bit you can tell him to go poo and he will know what to do :) Of course this only works when, according to his poo rhythm, it's time to poo anyway. No one, animal or human, can go poo when it's not their time ;) Obi's time seems to be about 20 minutes after waking up, so you have to adjust the morning schedule so he'll be outside around that time :) I would not leave him outside for a while and close the door. Not only for the reason you mention (waking up neigbours if he starts barking) but he's not learning anything that way. He has no idea why he is in the yard. He may have fun and sniff and dig for example or he may not and bark and scratch the door wanting to come back in. Either way, he is not learning what the purpose is for him being in the yard. You may have to get up 15 minutes early for a week or a few weeks to teach him what is wanted of him so you have some time and don't feel rushed to go to work in order to be there in time. And during walks, reward him extensively when he poo's so he will understand the word "poo" as soon as possible.

And now for the nipping... Jane is right about the bite inhibition and to say "ouch!" when they bite too hard and stop whatever it is you were doing. But I first need to know if it is about bite inhinbition since I don't think it is in this case. When does Obi nip? Is it when you are playing with him, brushing him, interacting with him in any way? Or does he nip for apparently no reason when you're sitting on the couch for example or when you're in the kitchen preparing dinner, things like that? Or both? And when he nips, apart from your hands, where else does he nip you? Under what circumstances?

And about the chewing. Is he chewing a lot when you're home or is it mainly when you're at work? Some dogs chew out of boredom, others are just naturally born chewers for pleasure :) My Yunah has a huge desire to chew, she really loves chewing so she has quite a few toys that will satisfy that need. She will chew when laying next to me on the bed, for example, just because she enjoys it. When it's more about boredom, apart from providing chewing toys, you could also consider giving Obi his breakfast in a "treatball". This will keep him occupied in a good way and tire him mentally. (eventhough there are so many these days and a lot don't even have the shape of a ball anymore, but I will still call them treatballs never the less for the sake of clarity) Both chewing toys and treatballs need to be introduced first and the dog has to actually learn how to use them :) I would try to use as little chewing toys I could, involving "food" in some way like rawhides, but would opt for the durable chewing toys from either Kong or Nylabone. Get several different ones and rotate them so it stays interesting :) Between his breakfast in a treatball and 2 different chewing toys, Obi should have enough things to do to keep him out of trouble ;) But remember, it doesn't work just like that. He needs to learn first that his chewing toys are what he needs to chew on instead of the blinds or whatever else he chews on :D The same way he needs to learn first how the treatball works before leaving him with it.

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

The chewing is occurring when I'm interacting with him. He hasn't trashed anything else since the blinds on my first day back to work. He does seem to like to chew as he will lay down with a toy & start chewing on it. I will be sitting there & he simply escalates from the toy to me. Once I start getting after him, pushing him away, I get the distinct impression that for Obi the game is now on as he starts trying to grab for my hands, even if I'm holding them up over my head. If that's the case, he will grab for the hem of my shirt, or whatever else he can get.

Debbie

[AlisonandMia]

Our Zac was very mouthy and even nippy (as well as totally and utterly hyper and out of control) when we got him. (This is what happens when a particularly high-energy and reactive Aust. Cattle Dog pup is systematically hyped up by a 12 year old boy in its formative months.)

I dealt with the problem by simply ceasing interacting with him briefly whenever he started to mouth any bit of me or my clothing (didn't wait for it to escalate to actual nipping). He worked out very quickly that any mouthing behavior (including licking) resulted in the loss of what he wanted - my attention. He found that he could get me to interact with him and keep me interacting with him by behaving politely and keeping his mouth to himself (and not jumping up and generally acting like a crazy nut). I never told him off or corrected him (I didn't speak at all) but simply quietly removed myself by standing up, taking my hands off him and/or turning away briefly (usually only for a matter of seconds).

Alison

[SasAndYunah]

Aha! It sounds as if he is simply being playfull and testing some of his boundaries in his new "territory" :) So, he's not a chewer in the sense that he chews up all kinds of items (and thus destroy them) but he seems to be doing it because it's an enjoyable occupation :) And of course chewing is as normal as wagging their tails...it's part of being a dog :D This is in fact wonderful and actually no problem there.

Now about you, hehehehe... :D Do NOT hold your hands up over your head as it will only stimulate dogs to go after those hands (and besides, simply getting them out of his reach, is not teaching him anything, you're just preventing your hands from getting chewed on ;) ) This is a key question you should always ask yourself "Is my dog learning the desired behaviour with this action or not?"

Anyway, do not hold your hands in the air or any other object for that matter, this will entice dogs to jump up to go after the object in the air. We all know that familiar image of a child with a toy in its hand and a dog comes walking up. The child wants to protect the toy and holds it up in the air and the dog will start jumping for it. Child falls over due to the dog jumping up, starts crying and voila, you have a "bad" dog...or so people think. But the dog was just being a dog and is not to blame at all. You trigger his hunting instincts by keeping objects just out of reach in the air or behind your back...or where ever else. What would be ideal is to prevent a situation where Obi can go from his chewing toy to your hands in one movement... I personally believe strongly that we should set out dogs up to succeed, meaning we should create situations in which we make it easier for them to succeed instead of to fail. I'm not sure about the next scenario but let's assume this is the case:

You sit on the couch and Obi is laying next to you, chewing on his toy. He then moves to your hands..and agreed, they are close by and sure to get him some attention and an exiting game :D Solution, let him not chew on a toy when he is that close :) Let him do his chewing in his own place, on the floor, anywhere but just not next to you. This way you will prevent "situations" from occuring. And one less chance for Obi to be a "bad" boy :)

So what if he is laying next to you (not with a chewing toy) and he starts chewing your hands anyway? You snap your fingers and say"no"...nothing more, nothing less. (the snapping of the fingers is to distract him for a moment) No pushing him away (Ohhh what fun, now I got mom to play with me) not saying anything else...just snap your fingers and say no. More then likely he'll start doing it again...and so you do it again, snap your fingers and say no. If, at one point he stops and looks at you, say "good boy" and tell him to get off the couch/bed (where ever this happens) and you give him one of his actual chewing toys :) He should stay on the floor what that of course.

And one other thing, don't go chasing him...that's the all time favorite game for any dog :)

Just for "clarity of the rules and who isin charge" purposes, I would do some obedience excercises just for no reason at all. (well, there is a reason but not for the reason that you actually need him to sit ;) ) If you give him dinner or a chewing toy, make him sit before you hand it to him. Going for a walk, make him sit before you put the leash on. During a walk, make him sit every now and then...things like that. And for every sit he does well, be happy and let him know how good a boy he is :)

Giving his age and his playfull nature (and he has to spent quite some time "convined" because you work) I would also try and do some games with him from time to time. This will give him the change to interact with you in a positive manner and not negative (attention seeking) behaviour such as chewing your hands. Play hide and seek with a chewing toy for example... Start easy. Show him where you hide the toy and tell him to "go find it". And slowly you can make it more difficult. This way he will have some "quality time" with you...your attention and interaction with him, and once he found his chewing toy, he can settle down and chew (on the floor).

Hope this was somewhat helpfull. If not or you have more specific or other questions, just let me know.. I do respond pretty well to whistles :D

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

My days off are Thurs-Fri, so I will really concentrate on everyone's suggestions about the nipping/mouthy behavior.

Now, I must go into a little more detail about the early morning schedule that seems to be working itself out. The first day back to work on Saturday, we got up, & I simply had both boys go out the dog door as this is what Chew is used to. I pretty much know that Obi came into quickly to have gotten anything he needed to do accomplished. So we went back in the bedroom, I shut the door, so Obi couldn't be wandering around the house unsupervised. I got in the shower, happened to be looking out the shower door, & saw Obi marking on the corner of the wall, opposite the shower, damage is done, what can you do. Based on that, Sunday morning, I went out with them, & success Obi did his pee in pretty short order. I think in 2 days worth of walks, he had already caught on to "good pee/bad pee". We came in the house & I started getting ready. When I was just about ready to come out, & go put breakfast out, I opened the bedroom door, but I was a couple of minutes behind the boys. In that small time, Obi did his poo in the corner of the living room. I've got tile, so cleanup is not that big of a deal, but this is still not acceptable behavior. Monday morning, I kept them in the bedroom until I was ready to go to the kitchen. As I was at the vanity, I thought to myself, "I can smell it, but where did he do it." Well, I looked down on the corner of the rug in front of vanity, & yes, there it was. I have thought it was kind of weird myself that he was able to have a BM that early in the morning, or middle of the night for normal people, anyway.

I knew that you would have some input for me this morning when I got up, Sas, so when we came back in after the "pee" trip & I read your response, I immediately put my robe back on, & took him back out. It had been about 15-20 minutes since we got up. Sure enough, Obi immediately started circling & sniffing the ground, stopping to poo in a couple of minutes after we went back out. Believe me, he got a ton of praise for that. Getting up 10-15 minutes earlier is not going to be that big of a deal, & as smart as he seems to be, I think he will catch on pretty quickly as to what is expected when we get up in the morning.

Sas, & everyone else, your advice has been absolutely invaluable, I certainly do appreciate. I have not had a young dog in years, & I was kind of shell shocked when he first got home. Chewy was 6 when he came to live with me, so he was long past all this stuff.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Three hooray's for Obi, that smart pup who goes pooing outside! :D :D :D :D :D

And Debbie, you too catch on pretty quickly, well done ;)

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Yeah, Obi took care of everything in one trip this morning!! It was kind of a long trip, as he sat on the porch & refused to come out in the yard, initially. I just kept carrying him back to the yard & kept telling him that it was time to "go pee-pee".

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Doing a very silly "happy dance" here :p Okay, it took some time but everything went as it should, I love that Obi! :D :D :D
I actually am inclined to believe that he DID read "my" book, hahahaha...he's doing perfect ;)

And kudos to you for being persistent and not giving in to the urge of wanting to "flee" back indoors at that time of night :)

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Believe me, Sas, I so wanted to flee as it's very cold for the Phoenix area & windy. We just got back from the afternoon walk & it's only 45 with windy conditions, our normal temp is usually about 70 this time of year. Anyway, Obi has so learned the "good pee/bad pee" on the walks, he will go to the bushes, try to fake me out by acting like he is lifting his leg, then run up to me to get his treat. I just laugh & tell him that he didn't pee, & no treat with no pee.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hahaha...Obi is my kind of dog :D It's pretty smart of him to learn the good pee/bad pee so quickly...but it is even smarter of him to take it a step further and try to outsmart you :D Gotta love those smart dogs ;) Smart dogs aren't always that easy...but they sure are a LOT of fun :D But remember, as fast as he picks up on the good behaviour, these dogs are just as fast to pick up on bad behaviour... And that's why smart dogs can actually be more "difficult" to keep under control... If you slip up once, he'll know it and will let you "suffer" for it for a longggggg time, hehehehe... Just make sure that it is clear to him what you expect of him...and stick with it, stay consistent :D

And I so understand how you wanted to run back inside the house... But Obi will understand pretty fast that when you put him out in the yard, in the middle of the night, that you want him to pee and poo and then he can go back in again so your stays will be a lot shorter soon :) Hang in there and dress warm ;)

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Next problem. On walks, Obi seems determined to want to chase cars, even on his lead. When I hear a car coming, I will shorten up the lead to allow no give at all, & when he lunges toward the car, I really get after him. He has gotten a little better with the correction & will ignore cars sometimes, but not all the time. When he does ignore, he may look up when they go by, but keeps on walking. I will praise him & treat for that kind of behavior, but that is far from being the norm. Obviously, it's a dangerous behavior that I have got to get stopped sooner, rather than later.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Debbie

Chasing, lunging or barking at cars is predatory behaviour. (as is shaking (the intend to kill) stuffed toys, terrier breeds digging in the yard, chasing tennisballs or frisbees, biting or nipping people in their heels as they move away from the dog, border collies “herding” people to stop them from leaving the group, chasing running children, etc) Predatory instinct is still present in all dogs to some extend. How much of this instinct is still present will also depend on the breed (or mix of breeds) of the dog. Obi seems to have quite a bit of predatory instinct. This predatory behaviour is set in their genes and therefore it’s impossible to “eliminate” it. The genes will overrule everything else. In other words, you’ll have to be always aware that Obi posesses this predatory behaviour. You cannot train it out of a dog…

But that doesn’t mean there’s nothing you can do. “Chasing cars” is a highly self- and immediate rewarding behaviour. So your aim in trying to get this behaviour under control is not to eliminate the behaviour but to let the dog know there are other, much more and fast rewarding things he can do instead.

What you should not do, is get a firmer grip on the leash and shorten it. This will only send a message to Obi that there is indeed reason to be tense and exited. “Punishing” him for the behaviour is also not what you should do for 2 reasons. One, it doesn’t work and secondly, if you are to raise your voice, this will only have Obi think you are “barking” too and therefore he will think his behaviour is “approved” by you. (after all, you are barking too).

So, now that know what not to do, what should you do instead.

Well, when you take him for a walk (and let’s say that you’re walking beside a quiet street, with just a car passing every now and then) and you see a car coming, you distract Obi by squeeking with a squeaky toy (for example) This is to prevent him to going into his predatory mode. (once in that mode, you have lost already because nothing you will do or say can make him stop. So in situations where he goes into his predatory mode, just ignore it, don’t say a thing, just keep walking and if necessary you “drag” him along, kicking and screaming)
So, back to the squeaky toy. If that distracts him, and he looks up at you, immediately tell him “good boy” and give him a treat…and keep feeding him treats till the car has passed. Once the car has passed, you continue the walk. While you are feeding the treats, keep talking to him to keep his focus on you. If this works well, then you move on to the next level. You see a car coming, you squeak the toy, Obi looks at you and now you tell him to sit, before you give him the treat. As long as he stays seated and pays attention to you (keep talking to him to hold his attention) you keep giving treats till the car has passed. And you walk on… Once he masters this behaviour, it’s on to the next step. Car is coming, squeak, Obi sit, you give him a treat…keep talking till car has passed..and only then does he get his second treat. So no more treats during the entire time. Just one treat when he sits and a second one when the car has passed (and Obi behaved, of course) And finally, you can do the same routine but now when Obi sits, you wait with giving him the treat till the car has passed. So there will be only one treat left. And eventually, you hope that he will master this without even needing a treat. But even if he would need a treat for the rest of his life, if that stops the behaviour, well, that’s worth a few treats

Now, what if you are next to a very busy road? Well you do exactly the same thing but with no walking after the car has passed because the next car is coming already. In this case I would find a place not too close to the road so to not make it too hard on Obi. You get his attention, he looks up at you, you talk happy and feed him treats…for as long as he ignores the cars passing. And also in this situation, you gradually built it so where he has to sit and where he can manage with lesser and lesser treats. Alongside a busy road, with a constant stream of cars, I would not do this excercise for more then 2 or 3 minutes at the time. Remember, we want him to succeed and not to fail. And in the beginning this will be very diffcult for him...so if you were to stay longer, the risk of Obi going into his prey mode will only increase..and we don't want that to happen.

I would use a squeaky toy (or something else that makes a distinct sound) and
keep it for walks only so Obi will recognize the sound and soon will also understand what you expect of him when he hears that sound. So you will not train the predatory behaviour out of him but you will teach him to “ignore” his prey drive by making sure he gets a better reward then chasing cars will give him.

And perhaps you can start some games with him that will fulfill his genetic need to “hunt”. That may also help to generate his prey drive in more appropriate ways. Maybe he loves to fetch balls, a highly “prey drive” satisfactory game.

Hope it was clear. If not, let me know and I willl explain better…or at least try to

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Your explanation is very clear, Sas! I would never have associated this behavior with prey drive. I saw this behavior almost immediately on walks, so have done my best to avoid the busy street I live about 3 blocks from. I have 2 main routes for walks, one is reasonably quiet, the other does have some traffic, but nothing compared to the busy street. This second route takes us up by & elementary school. Monday afternoon, we went this way about the time kids were getting out for the day, so we had 2 issues, cars picking up kids, & kids walking home. I basically chickened out, turned around & said "Let's go home", as I didn't want Obi to have both the challenge of cars, & kids wanting to pet him. I would also not have associated shortening up on the lead to giving him the signal that this is a "high stress" situation.

Debbie

[addy]

Hi Deb,

He will probably then lunge at bikes and joggers too if he likes cars. :eek:

I had that problem with Zoe. I taught her the cue "watch me". Whenever we see something I know will set her off on our walks, I tell her "Watch Me". She then knows to sit and watch me and she will get a reward. She then ignores her car, bike, person, dog, etc. and we resume our walk when I think the "trigger" is a safe distance away. We can even now go past some triggers without doing watch me, depending on her initial reaction. Sometimes, just for fun, I will tell her "watch me" when nothing is there. Darned if she doesn't sit and then look over her should for a moment, wondereing what she "missed" :D

Don't you love Sas's training posts? She is so great!!! I love reading her pointers.:D

They are so cute. You have to love the training. I know I do.

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

I have now renamed the thread, "Adventures with Obi", as I think that is way more appropriate, now. It is, indeed, a daily adventure, now.

Debbie

[AlisonandMia]

You might want to try Gentle Leader Easy Walk harness on Obi. They are simpler and easier to put on than regular harnesses and unlike regular harness and collars of all types they don't encourage pulling and lunging. I got one for Tink and was so impressed I went and got one for Zac too and he loves it!

Most dog equipment (including the Halti and other headcollars) tend to stimulate the natural "opposition reflex" where as this harness just doesn't. It isn't a substitute for training but it sure removes a lot of obstacles to a well behaved dog. And best of all it is quick and easy to put on and take off whereas other harnesses can be very tricky especially if the dog isn't completely co-operative at the time. And they are very inexpensive too!

Here's a link to a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QEM9zl4ngs

Alison

[Casey's Mom]

I have loved catching up on your thread about Obi and all your adventures. I am learning a lot too!!
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Love and hugs,

[StarDeb55]

Not much to report on the Obi front today. I have started asking him to "sit" before I put his dish down for him at mealtime, or getting treats. Mr. Smart Guy has caught on very quickly, like 2 days. I just came in from running errands, everyone gets a treat when I come in. I got the treats out, asked Obi to "sit". He popped right down into a great sit, got lots of praise, & his treat.

I will be going to sign the papers to finalize his adoption after work tomorrow. I will ask rescue if they have any information on his background. I think it would be helpful to know if he was pulled from the pound or was an owner surrender, even if that's all they can tell me.

He pulled that trick, again, last night where he flopped down by me with his head on my shoulder. Those big eyes peering at me as if he's saying, "See I'm doing my best, & I know I'm doing better, I get to stay don't I?" I told him don't sweat it, you're staying, no matter what.

Debbie

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Congratulations on making the adoption official. Sounds like you have one smart guy on your hands. Poodles are very, very smart and I think Obi's got a Poodle in his ancestry somewhere. Can you see Poodle in him at all?

[StarDeb55]

I though poodle, maybe. John saw him yesterday, & he doesn't think so. We can't tell if he has curly hair as he was groomed by the rescue shortly before I took him home. John is in total agreement with me that based on his head, face, tail & body structure, that he is definitely part Shih Tzu. I laughed as John has had the same reaction everyone has, "Where in the world did those legs come from?"

Debbie

[lulusmom]

Debbie, you have to get his DNA done because it's driving me crazy. You can buy the swab kit on ebay for less than $50 and it includes a self addressed, stamped envelope or box for shipping. I'll even chip in. :D

[StarDeb55]

Glynda, I "googled" the name of the kit you posted the other day & it was $90, I think.

Debbie

[lulusmom]

It's much cheaper on Ebay. $39 with free shipping. Packaging is a little creased but no big deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Wisdom-Panel-Insights-Dog-DNA-Test-170-breed-database-/180620739418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0dd5c35a#ht_803wt_1058

[Roxee's Dad]

I though poodle, maybe. John saw him yesterday, & he doesn't think so. We can't tell if he has curly hair as he was groomed by the rescue shortly before I took him home. John is in total agreement with me that based on his head, face, tail & body structure, that he is definitely part Shih Tzu. I laughed as John has had the same reaction everyone has, "Where in the world did those legs come from?"

Debbie


LOL.... A Shih Tzu. on stilts.....but unbelievably so darn cute. :D

[StarDeb55]

I went down to where the rescue was after work this afternoon, & signed on the "dotted line." Obi is, now, officially mine. The only background they could give me is that the rescue pulled him from animal control in Apache Junction which is a small town on the east side of Phoenix metro area.

I'm afraid Obi is not feeling well this afternoon. He is very quiet, not bouncing off the walls. He is not obviously distressed, but will see how he does when I put dinner down in a couple of minutes. I got home to a huge stinky mess in the kitchen. The poor guy must have vomited 3-4 times today, along with one loose stool. I think it may have happened fairly soon after I left as there was undigested kibble in what I cleaned up. My best guess as to the culprit, the canned peanut butter filling from Kong that I have been squirting inside of his Kong & freezing it. I give it to him right as I'm leaving. I don't think there will be any more of that stuff. Guess, I will have to get the dry treats to put in the Kong. I think the daily walk will have to fall by the wayside today as the "Shih Tzu on stilts" just doesn't act like he's interested.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Ohhhhhhhh Deb, I'm so happy he's yours now but so sorry he's feeling not quite alright :( Could be some sort of stress reaction to everything he went through lately....these reactions can be belated. Or could be because it was frozen and thus too cold for his tummy..or because peanutbutter is too fat. Perhaps it's better to get him one of those treatballs that you can fill with dry kibble and no need to freeze it first :) Would make for a lovely "welcome to your forever home" present ;) I would get him one if I lived closer...he stole my heart :D

Well wishes to Obi and all my best,

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Sas, it's the stuff that the Kong company makes, & I looked at the ingredients, %fat, etc., it didn't look that bad. He's been getting it for a week without any problems, but no more. I will definitely go with some of his dry kibble.

One thing I forgot to add about his background, he was apparently pulled from animal control by the rescue sometime in December which means that he was only in rescue around a month.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

My misake, just read the word peunutbutter and not the kong part :)

Goodnight from this side of the pond,

Sas and Yunah :)

[AlisonandMia]

Here's a really, really good treat ball: http://www.netpetshop.co.uk/p-26518-cyber-dog-dog-toy-treat-ball-large-small.aspx

This is by far and away the best one I've ever come across (and I've had a few!). What is so good about it is that it has some sort of baffles inside which means that although it is easy for the dog to get some of the food out it is hard for it to get all of the food out so it sort of teaches the dog how to use the treat ball very quickly (by giving quick, easy rewards at the outset) and still provides a challenge. It is also softish and bounces and behaves like a regular ball.

During our recent flood adventure when Tink had to be crated almost full time she was getting a large proportion of her daily food in the treat ball which she thought was great. I think it helped keep her sane!

I hope Obi is feeling better soon - and be careful when cleaning up after him, remember what happened to Sue when Zoe was similarly ill!

Alison

[addy]

Hope little Obi feels better real soon, Deb.

They have lots of good stuffing ideas on the Kong website. I have mushed banana inside it and I use their wet food inside it too. I don't have to put much in, just smear some especially along the inside lip of the bigger part and then way up into the smalll part. The frozen may have been too much for him with the stress of coming to his forever home and adjusting to his new routine.

Feel Better Soon Sweet Obi

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

Obi is absolutely fine today. We got back from our walk a few minutes ago, & he just bounced right along while we were out. I did not give him any of that peanut butter stuff today.

He is doing great in the kitchen on work days. I don't count yesterday as he was obviously sick. He pee'd in the kitchen the first day I went back to work last week after bringing him home, but that's been it. The kitchen has been accident-free when I get home. I would have bet that I would find a "poo" when I got home today because after 3 trips outside this morning before I started getting ready for work, with no success, & Obi did not poo in the house that I could find, I figured I would find a gift in the kitchen floor when I got home. I'm a happy girl.

He is a smart little devil. On our early morning trips outside, I will pull the arcadia door closed or he will run back in. Now, he's figured out that he can just run back in the dog door, so I have to pull a chair in front of the dog door to keep him out until he has taken care of everything. I think he saw Chewy going in the dog door one morning, & that's what reminded him.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Obi passed his checkup with my vet with flying colors today. He is also the first dog that I have seen that didn't have a panic attack at the vets. He's being Mr. Nosy, & trying to check everything out. My vet was laughing at him, & basically summed it up, "You have your hands full!" He also feels that Obi is 2-3 years old, not the 18 months that rescue stated. He feels this way because he already has visible tartar on his teeth. The only problem is that his distemper combo vaccination will have to be repeated as the rescue never gave him the booster which is suppose to be done 3-4 weeks after the first vaccination. Once I know that his vaccinations are all good, I will have a titer done, so that, hopefully, we can go to every 3 years on the vaccinations.

Now the really good news!! We are doing a big HAPPY DANCE at my house!! Today makes 3 straight mornings that Obi has gone out when I get up at 330AM, makes 1 circle around the yard, stops for a pee, then makes another circle around the yard, & stops for a poo, & we are back in the house in 5 minutes. No more 2 trips outside at that time of morning!! I'm thinking that with 3 straight days of success we have made a breakthrough, but I intend to still play escort to make sure that he totally understands what is expected. He has not marked in the house in a little over a week.

Debbie

[jrepac]

Hi Deb,

Congrats on the Obi "aquisition"....he is very cute!:)

I am sure you will fatten him up!:D


Jeff & Angel Mandy

[lulusmom]

Congratulations on a a job well done. Obi just keeps convincing me that he's got some poodle in there somewhere. He's a smart one for sure. I wish everybody in my house peed outside so I could get rid of the hospital pads and the diapers for Lambert.

[Franklin'sMum]

Hi Debbie,

I'm so glad to hear Obi is feeling better :D, and very impressed with how quickly he's picking up the poop routine :).
Cheeky boy, trying to run back inside :p

Jane, Franklin and Angel Bailey xxx

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Debbie,

that's all such wonderful news :D Yes, you have a smart pup on your hands and that does mean that you have your hands full but don't you just love it??? :D And he is responding so well to you and your training, that must be very satisfying :)

How are the walks (the lunging at cars) going? Any progress there? :)

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Good Morning, Sas. It's my day off, so I sleep in. Obi got up a few minutes ago, so I jumped up, grabbed my robe, & got him outside as quick as I could. Success, day 4!

I haven't started working on the car chasing thing, yet. I intend to do that starting today. I didn't want to throw too many things at him at once, but I'm beginning to think that multiple new challenges would not phase him in the least. I do need to get going on the car chase stuff, though, as the goofball actually lunged at a car as we were crossing a street, & the car had to make a quick stop. Fortunately, being in a residential neighborhood, the car wasn't going very fast. This incident did put a few more grey hairs in my head.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Good luck! :D

Sas and Yunah :)

[AlisonandMia]

Make sure you are holding the leash in such a way that you can run your hand up it rapidly and shorten it. That should make things a lot safer and help with the training too. A lot of people (most from what I can see) just hold it in one hand by the loop. I saw a dog very nearly get hit by a car just last week for this reason. (The large dog in question nearly dragged his owner into the traffic lunging to try to cross the road to check my dogs out. The car missed him by a whisker! And all the while she was holding him with one hand by the loop of a 5ft leash.)

What I do is loop the leash around my right wrist (I have a habit of dropping things so I need to do that:o:p) then I take a loop in my right hand and, with the leash across by body and the dog on my left, I hold somewhere around the middle of the leash in my left hand. This way I can run the lead through my left hand and use the amount of slack in my right hand to adjust the length of leash available to the dog at any given moment.

I walk two dogs on my left with this arrangement with full control. But I am aware that I find this unusually easy because of years of riding and handling horses has made handling "reins" second nature. What I described is very similar to how you lead a horse (except the horse is usually on your right) - only with a horse you never do anything like looping anything around any part of your body!

Alison

[addy]

I walk two dogs on my left with this arrangement with full control. But I am aware that I find this unusually easy because of years of riding and handling horses has made handling "reins" second nature. What I described is very similar to how you lead a horse (except the horse is usually on your right) - only with a horse you never do anything like looping anything around any part of your body!

Horses AND dogs, it does not get any better than that:D:D

One thing I did not know was that after I trained Zoe not to lunge at bikes and cars, we had to have a refresher course. During the winter we did not walk as much and we did not see bikes and cars so when Spring came and we started our daily walks and encountered cars and bikes again, she had forgotten and reacted by lunging again. Good news was the refresher course was much, much shorter in duration:D:D

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

I am dumbfounded. I took a squeaky toy with me & Obi on our walk this afternoon. First car passes, I'm squeaking for all I'm worth, Obi focuses right in on me immediately, & I'm telling him to "Watch me". Car goes by, he gets a treat. Next car as an experiment, I started squeaking, Obi focuses right on me, & before I could even finish saying "sit", he has dropped down into a nice sit. The rest of the walk, all Obi had to hear was the squeaky toy, he would come over by me & sit without me saying anything. He watched me every time, until I released him by telling him "Good boy!" Jeepers, Creepers, I've got a smart aleck on my hands, & I'm not sure I can keep up with him.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hip hip hooray!!! :D :D :D I'm jumping up and down with joy here, what a perfect little doggy Obi is ;) And what a wonderful mom you are, willing to take that extra time and effort to give Obi every chance to be a "good boy, to teach him what he's supposed to do instead of telling him what he's not supposed to do :) I am so very happy Obi is responding this well to you and the squeeky toy...tells me that the relationship between you and Obi is very, very well :D Look at all the things he has accomplished already in this short time with you, bravo Debbie!

Sas and Yunah :)

[Bailey's Mom]

Debbie-I can't remember ( and am too tired to look back)-but do we have a good guess as to Obi's age? Wouldn't you love to know a little more about his background?:confused:

It's a real kick for me when I see there are new posts by you on Obi. I am having such fun following along. I just can imagine the look of disbelief on your face every time you make a new discovery!:D

[By the way-for anyone who is interested-those DNA kits are available right now on eBay for $29.99/with free shipping and there are others accepting bids. ] :cool:

Debbie-more pictures!!!

-Susan

[StarDeb55]

Susan, my vet feels 2-3 years old as there is already visible tartar on this teeth. He said that a pup of 18 months probably wouldn't have tartar. The only other info I could get from rescue is that they pulled Obi from animal control in Apache Junction, which is one of suburbs on the far east side of Phoenix, in December, so he had been in rescue about a month when I took him.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Sas, a new house training issue has arisen. Obi had been doing really well until we hit several days of rainy/wet weather in the past couple of weeks. I learned very quickly that he seems to loathe going out on wet grass, so don't even think about it actually raining. It's kind of funny to watch him when he hits the grass when it's wet. He's picking up his long legs very gingerly, like he's saying, "What is this nasty wet stuff, do you expect me to do my thing on it?" I do have 2 areas on each side of the backyard that are rock which he does a little better when it's wet, but he really doesn't even like that. I would rather not put piddle pads in the house when the weather is bad as I don't want him getting the idea that elimination in the house is acceptable at any time.

We had not been for a walk for about a week until yesterday due to the weather & cool temperatures. I was really wondering how well he would do with the squeaky toy distraction for cars, since we had only done it the one time. As we have all figured out, this is one smart little devil. He did not miss a beat. The first car, I started squeaking, & "watch me", he immediately drops to his sit, stays put, until I release him with a "Good Boy!"

I forgot one thing. I have had a couple of people ask me, "Why are you still going outside with him?" My response was that I have to make sure that Obi takes care of what he needs to do, until I'm certain of that, I have to go out. I'm still not confident in him enough, to let him go out alone. When or what is a good sign that he will no longer need an observer when he goes out?

Debbie

Debbie

[AlisonandMia]

Sounds like he isn't very used to wet surroundings - which makes sense if he's from Arizona. Coming from a land of "drought and flooding rains" I've seen many creatures (horses, dogs, small children) who've never really seen rain, wet ground and puddles etc in the first 3-4 years of their lives and the reaction to it initially can be, depending on temperament, anything from wild excitement to absolute horror, and everything in between.

Maybe taking some steps to get him more familiar and relaxed with wet grass could help. Maybe some play sessions with a favorite toy (the squeaky one?), lots of treats etc. out on the wet lawn and even playing in gentle rain could help relax him and make him realize that the wet ground isn't going to dissolve his legs away or anything. It is something they sometimes actually have to learn about - Mia was as fastidious as a cat at first, I remember, but as the years went by she even learned to like splashing through shallow water in the gutter. (Rat terriers are not generally water dogs!)

Alison

[SasAndYunah]

I was out of town for a few days, thus my late response :) Alison is right, they actually need to learn being out in the wet grass, in the rain and all kinds of differant circumstances, surfaces, etc.

I noticed you mentioned not having been for a walk for a week due to the weather and the cool temperatures? Was that due to rain? If there was 3 feet of snow, that would make sense but if it was only due to the rain....well, how do I say this :D By avoiding walks in the rain, you kind of "create" the avoiding behaviour. Obi is a smart dude and when you avoid the rain, he will copy that behaviour (rain must be something bad since mom is avoiding it :eek:) Whenever I take Yunah (and all my previous dogs) for a walk when it's raining (and trust me I don't really enjoy it :rolleyes: ) I am very enthousiastic, saying stupid things like: "Yunah, are we going to become all wet today? Ohhhh what fun that is, let's go for a walk and have ourselves some fun!" :D So I am really doing the "happy voice", making her think something wonderful is about to happen and it works so well. All my dogs loved to go out in the rain simply by paying some extra attention to my own attitude during bad weather conditions, to use my happy voice so Yunah thinks it's something great to walk in the rain, to bring her ball and play fetch in the rain and the mud :D All dogowners should have some excellent raingear so even when walking in the rain, they stay dry...that's half the "battle" in convincing yourself to go outside and make it sound like fun, even when it pours ;)

Saskia and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

It wasn't so much the rain & wet, as the chilly weather, Sas. Us desert rats are freezing to death when the outside temp is <65F. It's that thin, desert blood. I do have an umbrella. I will try to see what I can find in the way of some type of rain slicker, but keep in mind, being Phoenix, something like that may be a little difficult to find.

Debbie

[addy]

Hi Deb,

I have a similar problem. When the snow first comes, my two look at me and say "I'm not pooing on that:eek:" I have to bribe them and tell them "go poopy and get chicken". Wouldn't you know as soon as they get used to pooing in the snow without being bribed, the snow starts to melt and then my Koko says "I'm not pooing on that GRASS:rolleyes:". So then I have to stand my ground and insist. If he doesn't go after 15 minutes I bring him in and wait.

It can be a royal pain.:rolleyes::rolleyes:


Glad to see Obi is such a smart little guy. It makes training so much fun.
Hugs,
Addy

[AlisonandMia]

Ha! ha! I had forgotten to add that you'll have to look and act "happy, happy, happy" about this whole being out in the rain/wet thing!:D

I know how hard it is to handle rain when you are not used to it. In Australia the weather is very variable from year to year and it is not unusual to live in sort of desert conditions for 3 years (complete with what looks likes tumble weed blowing down the pale, parched streets one winter) and then have to adapt to life in what is trying to become a tropical rain forest over a very wet summer like this last one. Every time we get a lot of rain after a long dry spell I have to relearn all my coping-with-the-wet strategies - and find the raincoats and umbrellas, and the controls for the windscreen wipers!:p:o

You might have to get a raincoat online. We have similar problems buying really warm clothing in our part of the world (we are subtropical) - which is a bit rough if you are planning to travel somewhere cold.

They make some pretty snazzy canine raincoats too. My dogs don't really mind getting wet (they wouldn't want to after this incredibly wet summer!) but dealing with a soaking wet dog when you get inside isn't necessarily great fun.

Alison

[SasAndYunah]

Ha ha ha here as well :D You guys should see the collection of coats and jackets that I have. Raincoats for the winter, raincoats for the summer, fluorescent raincaots for when I have to go out in the dark (during winter it's dark at 4 in the afternoon already), warm windresistant jackets, thin windresistant jackets, rainpants, fluorescent rainpants, warm woolen hats, sunhats, storm resistant hats, rainhats, the list goes on and on :D Not to mention all the underclothing for winter like woolen camisoles and woolen, long, underpants :p With temperatures throughout the year that can vary from anywhere between 0F and 100F we have to be prepared for any type of weathercondition. I also have a huge pile of at least 20 old towels that I use to dry Yunah off after another walk in the rain ;) A lot of nuissance to get yourself ready for a walk in bad weather but once fully dressed and outside, it's a lot of fun when I watch Yunah enjoying herself with the puddles and the mud ;)

Sas and Yunah :)

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi-
Palmer had a raincoat....looked like one of those the Scotland Police wear, which had a pull out lining. It also had a hood. Things are out there.....I live where you have to go 2 hours just to get to minimum civilization so I do almost all of my shopping on the internet. I figure what shipping I have to pay is more than offset by the gas I don't use.
Also-regarding snow-for both of our dogs, Bob has needed to shovel out a horseshoe shaped area. Dogs don't like to go exactly in the same spot, so they need an area big enough to allow space for moving around. If I remember right, one of the horseshoes had like a wing off of the shoe...kind of a rest stop. Palmer would only go out a different end from where he entered. (go figure!) We did this when the snow was deep enough to hit the little bodies......so more than 2 or 3" (when they squat.)
Two years ago we had a flood that covered everything but 2 sq feet of the patio. When Palmer looked at me I just apologized. Another time, we had to carry him through the flood waters until we hit higher land. A time or two when the water or snow looked deep, he would pee on the porch at the top of the steps. Bob got angry but I said-"Come on! We can wash that out with water. Give him a break!! How would you like to pee in this??!!"
Let us know how it goes.

-Susan

[StarDeb55]

Sas, I noticed that you commented on Carrol's thread concerning Grover vs. Sparky that you have always let your dog's sleep with you, but only after giving permission to get in bed. I totally understand the reasoning as you are the pack leader, bed is your territory, so permission is needed. Now, Chewy has always been very good about this, I don't really remember even having to teach him. He will come to the side of the bed, sit down, & wait for me to pat the bed, & tell him "UP!"

Everyone's favorite juvenile delinquent is another story. The first night Obi was here, he came tearing in the bedroom, jumped on the bed before I could stop him, & it's been that way ever since. The "biting/chewing" behavior that ends up grabbing me, frequently happens on the bed, so would I be correct in thinking that this is his way of trying to stake the bed as his territory? I hope this can be fixed with a lot of work & patience, so I'm hoping for some of your wonderful input. The good news I can report for Obi is that he is slowly but surely allowing Chewy to play with toys, now. Initially, Obi would already have a toy, he would see Chewy pick up another toy, then going racing over to Chew & grab it from him. Chew has finally started sticking up for himself, so it looks like Obi is starting to get the message. I've made every effort to let them work it out. I will even tell Chewy to get after Obi for being so "greedy". I've had to intervene once or twice when the growling/kind of barking stage has tried to turn into a full blown fight but the minute I step between them, & tell them both, "NO, STOP!", both of them will back off. Believe me, I know better than to grab someone by the collar, & end up getting bit in the free for all. It's just different with these 2 than other pairs of dogs that I have had over the years. Barkley loved his toys, & Harley could have cared less about any type of toy, so there was no source of conflict. Since Harley didn't care, Chewy came & just loves his babies, so no problem with those 2. Now, I've got 2 who both want their toys, & I know that I'm dealing, basically, with 2 jealous kids.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Deb :)

Not only Obi is one smart cookie, his owner is one as well :D My day is just starting here and I have things to do, places to go but will come back later today to answer you. But wanted to say you are seeing it correctly...as far as I am concerned :)

Sas and Yunah :)

[SasAndYunah]

Okay, done what I needed to do, went where I needed to go, now it's time for you and Obi.

Actually, you already answered your own question :) If I were you I would indeed start with not letting Obi jump on the bed as he pleases. My Yunah is the same as your Chewy, she has this "natural respect" for boundaries...never had to teach her either. But sometimes you have. Shouldn't be that difficult, Obi is smart, he will pick up soon what it is that's expected of him, I have no doubts ;)

Sas and Yunah :)

[Bailey's Mom]

Wow-raising two is a whole different ball game! We didn't have any real problems with Palmer, but there were times when he would start digging. Digging either the carpet or a piece of furniture. It was always as if he was trying to fluff the stuff up. We always yelled at him to stop and if he did not stop right away, I would head right over to him. The difficult thing was as soon as he knew I was coming he sat down and curled up. It didn't happen a lot...but it did happen. I want to make sure this doesn't happen this time.

With Palmer-you could never catch him quick enough-he was really quick on his feet and/or he wasn't doing the bad thing by the time you got there. He knew exactly what he was doing....and that it was wrong.

I always thought it would be cool to have two......like five years apart. Bob will never go for that!

-Susan

[addy]

Toys are hard. I have lots of toys for my two and I do not allow them to play with each other's toys. Koko would not think about taking one of Zoe's toys but Zoe will once in awhile try to take one of his.

When I bring a new toy home, they each get a new toy and I make a big deal out of saying "Koko's toy" and handing it to him and "Zoe's toy" and handing it to her. She gets her new toy first. Any time Zoe picks up one of Koko's toys, I tell her BBBBPPHUP (loud noise), "Koko's toy". She will usually drop it and walk away in which case she gets lots of praise. In those cases she does not, I will call her and trade her the toy for something else and then tell her Koko's toy. AS long as she has a reward for giving it up she is okay. Of course they like different kinds of toys so that helps too.

If they get too into their toys and Zoe shows any interest in taking Koko's, I will defuse it before it goes too far and call them to do something else and put the toys away.

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

Unfortunately, they both like the same kind of toys. They want the stuffed, plush, squeaky animals. Obi really is getting better about leaving Chew alone when he has picked up a toy.

Now, for a funny. Miracles of miracles, it's possible to poop Obi out, & this is not the first time this has happened. We were by ourselves today when we went out as Chew is at the vet for a dental. Anyway, we walk about 5 blocks down to a good size green belt, walk around the green belt, then head home. It takes about 25 minutes. Previously, we will get to the green belt, & Obi will collapse in the grass. I just laugh & tell him that I guess this means you need a breather. He didn't do that today, but about 1 1/2 blocks from home, he all of a sudden just drops on the sidewalk in a shady spot with his tongue hanging out of his mouth about a foot. I'm laughing, going, "Buddy, I know you're tired & hot, so am I, but we can't stay here. We have just a little bit further & were home." I tugged on the leash, & he decided that going home sounded like a good idea.

Sas, thanks for the reminder on Carrol's thread about turning your backs on them when they are jumping up on you. The jumping is another bad habit that we need to work on, & I knew about that but had just forgotten about it.

Deb

[BestBuddy]

Deb (and Sas)

I am loving this thread. I have obviously failed with my boys because 2 years down the track we are still having some of the problems you are experiencing. I am picking up some really good ideas on the right way to get it fixed.

I can tell that Obi is loving being with you and I think that even with the problems that take extra work you are having a ball with him too.;)

Jenny

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi-
Palmer used to get a bit rough at times when he played. Once that started to happen, I would say -"no-you're playing rough today." Then we'd stop playing and he'd go to his little spot on the bed.
I never went through that bit of having the dog wait to get on the bed. Our bed was too high for Palmer to jump on so we got him some of those carpeted steps that they have for dogs. That worked really well until the Cushings and then many times he would not clear the footboard.....and he would hit it with his kneecap. Having had knee replacements, I am quite sensitive to this. We had to take the steps away because he was having a hard time using them to get down. He was getting unsure of himself and I worried he might break a leg. So the steps got put away and I would get near the bed, put my head down on the edge of the bed....kind of like when kids try to look between their legs? Then I would tell him "Up!" He would put his front paws on the side of the bed and I would lift him up.....from the back of his hind legs. I just kind of folded up his rear legs. It really worked well for both of us.

-Susan

[StarDeb55]

Haven't had much to say about Mr. Obi, but here's a quick update & a question for Sas.

I was at the Dr. on Monday trying to avoid my yearly case of asthmatic bronchitis as I started getting sick when my company was here last weekend. Anyway, the Dr. tells me do you realize that you have lost 10 lbs. since November? I looked at him very much in a state of shock, & disbelief. I, then, told him that the only change I've made is that I got a new dog at the end of January. He is a young dog who is just full of himself, & needs his walks on almost a daily basis, so he has gotten his "couch potato" new Mom, up & moving. I'm sure that 10 lbs. has come off since I adopted Obi at the end of January.

Here's the question for Sas. One of the people who were visiting me last weekend noticed that Obi is in to everything, extremely inquisitive, & getting into stuff that he's got no business being in, & that I'm having a constant battle to keep him out of mischief. She suggested getting a squirt bottle of water, & "zapping" Obi anytime he is doing something he shouldn't, enforcing the squirt with a strong "NO!" I have heard of doing this before, but wanted to hear your thoughts on this type of correction, Sas.

Debbie

[Rene]

Debbie..I have been using that trick for years training my parakeets to only be on top of their cage. I would not clip their wings to allow them to exercise and fly around. When ever they would land on anything but their cage top or me I would give them a squirt. Works like a charm.

The only suggestion I would have is I never made a big deal out of it. I just secretly gave them a squirt. That way it was a self correction and they did not associate the correction with me being in the room. Its funny they sort of look around like God just spit on them!

This also works for my husband's cat Arnie when he won't let him in the bed. Arnie will yowl at three in the morining until God spits on him too!

Rene & Snoopie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Debbie :)

It kind of depends what stuff he's getting into but basically I am not a huge fun of squirtbottles. You see, when you use a squirtbottle, you don't really teach the dog anything. You just make it stop whatever it is doing. But the dog still doesn't know what it is supposed to do instead :) And with a smart, agile and fast dog like Obi, you're at risk that after 2 or 3 squirts he will know what's coming and before you can even reach for the squirtbottle, he's at the other side of the room, having a blast since now his behaviour is extra rewarding because it will start a game of chase as well, and oh boy, will Obi having some fun :D

Again, I have no idea what it is he is doing that he shouldn't be doing and if he's doing it all the time or especially when you have company over (less attention for him?) but I really think Obi needs to have some things to do, to have some tasks of his own. That way you can guide his "energy", his curiosity into positive actions instead of actions he's not supposed to do. Little tasks like getting you your slippers or finding you your keys. This way he gets to do stuff but in a controlled manner and be praised for sticking his nose in things (like your slippers :D) Or teach him how to push the tv button on and of...things like that. I'm pretty sure he'll love to have his own little tasks to perform.

Hope this helped somewhat, if not, let me know :)

Sas and Yunah :)

[addy]

For my Koko it was easier to funnel his energy after walks with mini training sessions and games inside. We play hide and seek for five minutes. Then later maybe practice sit, stay and down a few minutes. I just bought a hoo la hoop at the dollar store and he jumps throught it a few times. I have him sit at the end of the hall and call him with target (touch my hand) maybe 10 laps. All these things only last a few minutes but we try to do them when I am home (before work and after work). Training new tricks keeps his mind busy and out of mischief. You could have Obi do target durring commercials when watching TV.

I use a sharp aaahhhhaa if he is really about to get into trouble and I try not to use it too often. The squirt bottle reminds me of the shake can. Those tools don't really teach our pups anything. I took Koko to a "positive" training class for 12 weeks when I first got him. I mainly wanted to socialize him with dogs as he was a stray and had a problem with other dogs. I had done clicker training with Zoe and she responded so well. Koko's trainer had us throwing weight chains at their butts:eek::eek: and all kinds of "positive" methods, shake cans, yanking them of their feet, gosh I was miserable and hated it and Koko learned nothing except to be afraid.

We are much happier now avoiding those types of corrections. Obi is still adjusting. It takes awhile.:)

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

I think it's now official, I have a dog who is smarter than I am. I had bought one of the food buckets that had a hinged lid with a latch for Obi's kibble. Obi has been having periodic rounds of diarrhea & a tummy ache, along with passing room clearing gas since this past Tuesday, & I could not figure out what was going on as absolutely nothing has changed in his diet. He, also, has had a couple of poos in the house, & he hasn't done that since the first 2 weeks he was home.

I keep both containers of kibble in a corner in the kitchen between 2 cabinets. It's a pretty snug fit, so I have alway figured that the containers are safe from any organized mischief from any of my dogs. Boy, was I mistaken!!;):D I went into the Weds. afternoon, discovered that Obi had pulled his container of food out from the corner about 3-4 feet, chewed on the latch area of the lid enough, where he managed to loosen the latch. He, then figured out how to pop the latch, & he's standing there with his mug stuck in th kibble container, chowing down. I could not believe it!!!! I told him, " I will fix this where you can't get to it!" I thought this is easy, I will turn the container around, & shove the side with the latch up against the wall, where he can't access the latch. I went up to the kitchen as I needed to leave for another appointment. I heard Obi rooting around in the kitchen, peeked over the counter, & found out that my wonderful plan was useless. The little smart aleck had pulled the container out far enough from the wall to get to the latch, & was having a mid-morning snack. Needless to say, I went down to PetsMart, bought another kibble container with a screw top lid. I got him, & told Obi that if he figures out how to unscrew that lid, I'm leaving home!:D:p:rolleyes::eek:

Now, that all of the extra food has been eliminated, dear Obi seems to be feeling much better, & is back to his usual mischievous self.

Debbie

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Debbie-
What a hoot ... "passing room clearing gas"....it cracked me up! :D
I knew before I read any further that just turning the container around would not work. You might watch the new container as well....if it's plastic, it sounds like Obi may just chew through the outside. :( Can you put it inside a cabinet?
You may have to resort to "baby latches!":D:D
-Susan

[SasAndYunah]

Debbie....

I am LMAO reading about Obi :D :D :D :D :D Although in general people seem to think that an intelligent dog is easier to handle (they learn faster, etc) the truth is, intelligent dogs are a handful and much more difficult to handle then the less smart ones ;) If there's not enough to do for them, they will find things to do, things you never dreamed were possible, untill you are rudely awakened from that dream :p I just can't stop laughing...sorry :D I sure love that Obi boy, a dog after my own heart ;)

Okay, I'll stop laughing and will try to help you with this little handfull of yours :)
The trick with intelligent dogs is that they need to be stimulated and kept busy with good things, so they don't go looking for things to do that you would consider "bad" things. (no matter how much fun they are from a dog's perspective ;))

And, as Susan pointed out already, it might be smarter to lock objects away that you really don't want him in to...like the food container. Left in a place where he can practise and try and keep insisting on getting in to the container, is asking for trouble. The most simple solution would be to put both foodcontainers in a room where he has no access to them and that would be one less worry :)

But other then getting certain things out of his reach, you have to find ways to stimulate activities that are usefull, productive and will fulfill his needs to be busy without him doing "bad" things. Teaching him usefull tricks and providing him with activity toys and games will accomplish this. Teach him how to bring you your phone, the remote, your shoes...anything that would be handy for you and is something that he can do on a regular bases so it fills part of his days with certain activities. Provide him with a few activity toys when you are at work. But, you have to make sure he doesn't destroy them. So he needs to play with them first, before leaving him with those toys, to make sure he won't destroy them. There are lots of fun toys for dogs like the pyramide (same concept as a treatball) but due to shape more difficult then the ball shape version. Or the "home alone dog toy". Again, the same priciple as the treatball but this one is mounting from a rope and the dog has to pull at the grip hanging beneath the ball and with every time he pulls, a treat comes falling out. Or the "Tucker ball" a conventional treat ball with this difference that when the treats are finished, the ball makes a noise when it's moved arounnd, so the ball stays interesting even once the treats are gone :) But again, if you decide on such a toy, let Obi play with it first under your supervision so you know he won't destroy it when he is left alone with it.

And then of course there are activities you can do together with Obi that will also fulfill his needs for "some fun time". Not all activities recquire you to be equally as active...you already lost 10 lbs, don't want you to end up too skinny ;) One very fun thing you can do with Obi is blow bubbles. There are special dogs bubbles available, non toxic, they won't "break" when they touch a surface and they come in different tastes, bacon, peunutbutter and a few more I think. You can just sit and blow bubbles while Obi can chase them and try to catch them...lots of fun! :D Hide and seek, always fun as well. And all these things combined will channel his energy and satisfy his intellegence...and of course walks. Walks are quite important especially for high energy dogs. Some dogs are quite happy when they have a "task" during their walk so you could try if Obi likes to hold an item for you during your walks. An old (empty of course) wallet or something else that's easy to carry and has a nice "feel" to it, from a dogs perspective :)

Keep the updates on that funny boy coming...:D

Saskia and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

I had posted this on Chewy's thread, but it really specifically applies to Obi & has nothing to do with the peeing in the bed dilemma, so I thought I would repost here. I'm open for any ideas to keep my busybody active. I have re-read your last post Sas, & I think I need to take you up on some of those suggestions. Here's the problem.

The other thing is I'm now having some degree of trouble getting Obi to go potty when I take them out when I get home from work. It's now getting pretty warm in the Phoenix area, temps approaching 100, & that is just the beginning for the next 4 months or so. We will go outside immediately when I get home. I keep them out in the backyard, walk around, throw toys for Obi to chase. This is all in an attempt to get Obi to find the "perfect spot". We can stay outside for 20 minutes or more. Obi will get fed up & go lay down on the porch in the shade, & hasn't pee'd a drop. It's like he's telling me, "Are you out of your mind!! It's like an oven out here, & you expect me to stay out here?" What am I going to do when we get temps in the 110-115 range? It's impossible to go for walks in the afternoon after work, now, as I'm not about to take a pup for a walk in this kind of heat, on hot sidewalks. This means the only time for walks are in the morning on Thurs.-Fri. which are my days off. Come July & August, mornings will probably be out, too, as the temps can still be 95 degrees at 6AM. As we all know when Obi first came home, walks only twice per week are simply not adequate for him.

I did try an experiment today. I leave for my guitar lesson the first part of the afternoon, & am usually gone for about 2-2 1/2 hours. I got brave today, & decided to give both boys freedom of the house while I was gone. I told them we can try, but if I find a problem when I get home, we have to go back to Obi in the kitchen, & Chewy in his pen. I was ecstatic when I got home:D, I found no evidence of any problems. No one had an accident in the house & I could find nothing damaged. It's going to be awhile before I allow them free run of the house while I'm at work as that is about 10-11 hours where they can get into mischief.:eek::(

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Deb,

I read the post and will answer you but right now I am (and have been) so incredably busy that I don't have the time to write back, sorry :(

A few short things though to help me... If Obi pee's/poops do you normally return right after that indoors again? Some dogs will refuse to pee/poo since they have "learned" through experience, peeing/pooing means I have to go back indoors again. Yeah, they can be really smart ;)

And are you 100% sure he didn't do anything inside? And are you talking about him not wanting to pee...or is it about the poo? Or both? Not pooing likely isn't that strange...not peeing would be stranger.

I will check if you could clarify a bit more and will definately tomorrow have the time to reply :)

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Right now with the heat & it's only going to get worse, once everyone has pee'd, we are back in the house. I don't worry about the poos as I figure I'm home, they're out of their respective areas, & they can out the dog door when needed. I always check the kitchen when I come in to see if Obi has had any accidents, & he very, very seldom does. This is why the "no pee" concerns me as he has been shut in the kitchen for 10-11 hours with no access to outside. I sometimes look at him when he doesn't pee, shake my head, & ask him if he has the "bladder capacity of a camel". I can't prove that it's Obi, but I suspect it is. There have been a couple of times in the past several weeks where he hasn't pee'd outside when I get home, then maybe an hour or so later I find a puddle in the house. Chew has never been an issue. I let him out of his pen, tell him outside to pee-pee, & he can't get out fast enough. Chewy usually doesn't even wait for me to get the back door open, but scoots out the dog door.

I know you probably won't see this until after I've gone to bed, so I'm sure I will see your answer tomorrow.

Thank,
Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Deb,

hope you had a good nights sleep when you read this :) 8.40 in the morning here and some quiet time to reply... Eventhough I didn't have the time to reply, I have been thinking about this and of course, all that happened was that I have more questions for you ;) This is not one of those cut and dry issues so it will involve some "figuring out" and for that I need to know more :)

Does Obi know a command to go pee? And if so, using that command is not doing the trick, right? If he doesn't know a command to go pee, it might be handy to teach him one, but that won't help for now of course.

So, you come home and then what? You immediately take them out or do you hug/play with them a little before going outside?

If you take them in the backyard and you don't do anything, what does Obi do? Will he start playing, sniffing or immediately lay on the porch?

Right now, I cannot really think of a reason (other then what I mentioned earlier, that Obi won't pee because he associates peeing with having to go back inside...and he doesn't want to so he won't pee simply because he gets to stay out longer)

I have a few suggestions and I have no idea if they may work but give them a try. That's part of the fun (for me anyway) the process of solving the puzzle and trying to come up with solutions that are not every day.

First, try taking Obi out on his leash in the backyard and walk calmly around till he pee's. Of course you then praise the peeing and reward him with a treat, some play and taking of the leash... The fact that he's wearing a leash, might suggest to him it's time to pee...more related to how he normally pees...on leash during a walk. Or, if there's an exit from your yard to the outside of the yard area, just step outside and maybe then he wants to pee....so not going for a walk but just leaving the yard for a minute to pee just outside the yard.

The other suggestion is, go find a rock, a treetrunk...any object you encouter during a walk that Obi loves to pee against :D Pick it up and place it in your backyard, that might entice him to pee ;) (do you have a "flat" garden or are there higher objects that Obi can use to pee against?)

And as a third suggestion, let the boys out when you come home, don't put any importance on peeing with Obi...just let them out and once Chewy has peed, you take them back in. About 20 minutes later, let them out again and see if Obi pees this second time... Maybe he just needs some more time to get ready to pee :) (Wasn't this the case with the early morning poo's as well?)

And Obi will pee in the backyard? This you know for sure? My own Yunah won't pee in the backyard...she rather holds it for 24 hours then having to pee in her own yard. Some dogs are like that, they won't soil their own nest :) I just had 3 other dogs here staying with me and they all had no problem with peeing in my yard...and still Yunah didn't pee in "her yard"... :D

Sas and Yunah :)

[Rene]

Hi Debbie,

Once again, I agree with Sas. Along that same line this sort of applys. When we go out of town, and Snoop can't go with us, she spends time with our dear friends.

During conversation it came up, that that despite their lush landscaping, my little darling had been doing her business in the middle of their expensive artifical putting green!

The little dear likes the royal carpet rolled out for her business and does not like getting her feet wet or dirty! They love her so much and never mentioned it. So, by the time I found out about it she pretty much had a bad habit.

What I did was...the next time we visited I left the leash on. I immediatlely took her to the new spot that was acceptable. No, hello at the door...nothing...direct deposit to the spot. The command was, "Take a break"...once. I stood there quietly till we had success. I told them not to clean up her #2 business that week if it was deposited in the right spot. When we went to visit this was the routine until the habit was broken...did not take long.

You might try taking the little prince out immediatly upon your return from work...no frills/no fan fair...with a leash...to the spot of your choice (same spot every time). Give him your pee command. Stand firm...no chatter...make him work it out around you on the leash. If needed, give the pee command again...don't over do the command. When you have success...everything changes...make his whole world the world he wanted when you first came through the door. All about him!!!!! Love him...praise him. Just a little defered attention.

Hopefully, he will get the routine and you will be able to do what you have been doing...and just come home, open the door and have him do his busness unleashed to your spot...without holding you hostage!

Rene & Snoopie

[StarDeb55]

To answer the new questions both of you have posed: I'm using Glynda's trick of responding in blue.


Does Obi know a command to go pee? And if so, using that command is not doing the trick, right? If he doesn't know a command to go pee, it might be handy to teach him one, but that won't help for now of course.
Sas, I would think he does. When he first came home, on walks, I was telling him "good pee-pee", & rewarding him. When we go out, I usually something like, "Obi let's go pee-pee." Now, I will say I do beat the command into the ground, repeating it many times. I had a trainer that came into work with Chewy on some stuff tell me to give the command no more than twice as repetitive commands can just confuse them.


So, you come home and then what? You immediately take them out or do you hug/play with them a little before going outside?
If you take them in the backyard and you don't do anything, what does Obi do? Will he start playing, sniffing or immediately lay on the porch?
When I come in, I'm in the kitchen. I greet Obi, do a check of the kitchen for accidents, tell Obi "good job or good boy" when I found a dry floor, then tell Obi, "Let's go get Chewy". We go to living room, & I let Chewy out of his pen. At that point, I let them know, "Everybody outside. Let's go pee-pee.". We head toward the back yard. Once in the yard, I can't say I do nothing totally, I'm usually walking around, going to areas that I know Obi seems to like, reminding him to go pee-pee". Sometimes he follows me, other times he will stand at the edge of the porch, lay down in a couple minutes, but he is watching me closely. I will continue to walk around to try to get him out on the grass, sometimes he comes, sometimes not. If I just can't get him on the grass, I will go over & sit down with him. I pet him, will grab some of his toys & throw them out the grass to try to get him to go after them. Sometimes, he will go after the toys, other times he could care less. For example, today he didn't come off the porch. I walked over to corner to get in some shade from one of my trees. When I did that, Obi did come over by where I was. I reminded him to go pee-pee. He simply stood there & looked at me.



And Obi will pee in the backyard? This you know for sure?
Absolutely 100% for sure. I have all sorts of shrubs & bushes, along with a small patch of grass. On each side of the backyard is decorative rock. There is a cinder block wall around the yard. I have seen Obi mark on any or all of the bushes. He will frequently find his spot on the grass, & simply squat to pee. I have seen him find a spot in the decorative rock, & squat. He will also pick a spot along the wall around the yard. I have no problem with where he wants to toilet, so limiting him to a specific area is not hugely important for me. My thought is that I just want him to void outside, not in the house. He is still having the occasional slip in the early mornings, & leaving a poo in the house, after he has successfully voided outside. I'm sure part of this is my fault as I have gotten into the habit that once he pees we go in, & I know I need to give him more time to see if he will poo.

Hope this gives you further insight into our routine & how to work on resolving the problem. I know I will here from you in the morning when I get up.

Debbie

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Debbie-
I think you're doing a great job and agree with Sas's comments.
Sometimes, maybe, it just takes time and repetition.

-Susan

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Deb,

sorry for not being here when you woke up :) Another hectic day...you know how it goes ;)

I kept thinking about Obi and I have no other advice at this time then the few tips I already gave you. Try taking Obi for a "leashed walk" in the garden and hopefully that will get him to pee. Don't try for too long.... If he doesn't pee, go back in again, wait 20 minutes or so (keeping a close eye on Obi those 20 minutes) and take him out again on his leash in the yard. If he pees...first or second time around...well you know the drill...praise, praise, praise :D

Let me know if it works. If not, I'll keep trying to come up with something else :)

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

I think my idea that I may be responsible for all of this is correct. I have been very cautious about giving either boy any sign of annoyance or aggravation with them. I have been very careful to keep my voice very happy, & on an even tone, even when I'm really not happy at all. So far this is working, I have had no accidents in the bed since last Saturday, if memory serves. This is the longest period of a clean bed since this all started several weeks ago. They are smart little devils, & I guess one of them decided that peeing in the bed was the best to payback Mom for her bad attitude. I will keep you posted.

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Unfortunately, Obi & I had a major disagreement last night. He started trying to heave in the house, I was trying to get him out the dog door. He decided he wasn't going, & whipped around, & bit me on my left thumb. He really only sank in one tooth, but I think he bit pretty deep. The puncture is about 1/2 inch below the knuckle, & the base of my thumb is pretty swollen & sore today. It was my fault as I was trying to force him outside & he didn't want to go. I am watching the puncture site carefully, washing it a couple of times a day with antibacterial soap, & putting antibiotic ointment on it. I can leave the site open to the air until I go to work on Saturday, but at work, the wound will most definitely have to be covered. Hopefully, it will not require a doctor's intervention as this means the bite will be reported. Obi is up on his shots, but I just don't want to have to deal with county animal control.

Debbie

[addy]

Wow Deb, you mean if your own dog bites you and you need a stitch or two the doctor still has to report it? Gosh, I did not know that.

Hope your thumb gets better without stitches. Poor Obi, poor Deb.

Hugs,
Addy

[StarDeb55]

Addy, I seriously don't think any stitches are needed as the surface wound is very small. It's just that when I held the wound open to make it bleed to try to wash everything out, it looked like it was fairly deep. He did just barely break the skin, right on the knuckle, & the outside edge of the thumb, but those are nothing. So far so good, my thumb is just swollen & sore. There are no signs of redness creeping up towards my wrist or anything else that would give me cause for concern.

Debbie

[Squirt's Mom]

Addy, laws may differ from state to state, but I know in TN and in ARK all bites by animals are supposed to be reported - whether it is your animal or not. When Goldie tore my hands up a couple of years ago, our vet in TN was supposed to report it, which would have meant Goldie would have had to go into isolation for up to 2 weeks...and not at home, usually. Our vet was very understanding, tho, and did not report her.

[labblab]

Debbie, have you had a tetanus shot lately? That would be my one concern with a deep puncture wound.

I totally understand why you are otherwise reluctant to acknowledge the bite to anyone. I remember when Barkis was young and very energetic, he leaped up in the air right as I was bending my head over him and he somehow managed to snag my nose with his tooth. The puncture wound wasn't otherwise a big issue, but I hadn't had a tetanus shot in years. We were on vacation in Colorado at the time, and even though I don't usually endorse "fabrication," I decided to tell the doc-in-a-box that I had snagged my face while leaning over a barbed wire fence...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He looked at me, thought for a moment, then gave me my tetanus shot and otherwise didn't say a thing more about it :o. So maybe if need be, you might be able to come up with a creative explanation for your puncture wound, too. ;)

Marianne

[StarDeb55]

Marianne, I had not thought about the tetanus angle, but that poses another problem. I am violently allergic to tetanus antitoxin that is made from horse serum. The last time I had a tetanus shot was in college. I got so sick that they told me under no circumstances should I ever have a tetanus shot, again, as there would be a strong possibility that I would go into anaphylactic shock. They did tell me that if I absolutely had to have a tetanus, it would have to be human based anti-serum.

Debbie

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Debbie-how is the peeing going? How is the wound? I know how no only does that hurt physically, but it hurts emotionally. Palmer did that to me in the later days. It was not as deep, but I just sobbed. It just turned out to be the perfect opportunity to let out a lot of fear and frustration.
Bailey just peed inside. First time in weeks. I was upstairs, she was down.....I'd given her a bath and did not think to take her outside after the bath. Sometimes I wonder if it will ever stop happening.
-Susan

[StarDeb55]

Thanks for asking, Susan. My thumb is a lot better, swelling is mostly gone, kind of sore, like a bruise. The peeing, it's hard to tell. It's, now, 110+ over here, & when we go out when I get home, Obi just doesn't pee. I think he's thinking, "Girlfriend, are you nuts?? It's hotter than a furnace out here, can we just go back in that nice, cool house?" I watch him carefully, & he doesn't seem to pee in the house that I can tell, so I'm thinking he is going back out on his own, once he can come & go as he pleases. The thing that is "wigging" me out is he is back to doing poos in the house on a regular basis. It's not every, single day, but frequently enough to be irritating. He will do it early in the morning, after we go out, & I'm getting ready for work. Another prime time is the afternoon, sometime between when we come in after I get home, & supper time. I have bought some stuff made by Simple Solution that is suppose to help keep a dog from using the bathroom in unwanted areas. I spray it lightly in the areas I know he uses, & he does seem to stop. I don't know if it's the spray or what.

Debbie

[marie adams]

Hi Deb,

I was recently bite by a dog at a groomers I was trying to sign up as a new customer for my work. When I went to the doctors I told them I had been bitten and they said it was up to me if I wanted to report it. I didn't, so there really wasn't much to do about it. I got a tetanus shot, but then found out I was allergic to any penicillin based medicine--got a wonderful rash...so I know now to be careful like you have to with tetanus.

Now Ella's sharp puppy teeth are another story--our hands look like they have been in a cat fight....:D

I hope it get better fast. I soaked my finger in epsom salt with a little antibacterial soap for the first week and some neosporin. Then I started to put butterfly bandages on it. Healed pretty fast, but was tender for quite a while. It now feels good and that has been since early March.

Take care!!!!:)

[StarDeb55]

Sas & anyone else, I am fixing to lose it. It's like Obi has totally lost everything he's learned about house training in the past 2 weeks. Today, he poo'd in the house just a few minutes before I had to leave work. I know he did it as I heard a strange noise over by the door to the laundry room, I look up, & he's in the middle of doing a poo. You can't exactly stop him at that point. When I went over to clean up, I then discovered a huge puddle of pee. The poo was about an hour after we got up. I don't understand the pee as both boys did pee when we went straight outside when we got up.

I just finished practicing on my guitar, went to the living room to do something, found a poo in the living room. I went to get my pooper scooper as it's easier to pick up from the tile with the scooper than anything else. Went to open the bathroom door so I could flush everything down the toilet, proceeded to step in another puddle of pee. To the best of my knowledge, Obi has not done anything outside since I got home this afternoon, before I found the mess. As usual, when we went out when I got home, Obi kind of looked around, went to the yard for a minute, then went to the door, wanting to go in. I'm worried about forcing him to stay outside long enough to try to make sure he does his thing because in this heat, I would be scared that he could overheat being out any longer than 15 minutes or so.

IMO, I truly think that it's the heat, & he just doesn't want to go outside. It's 113 right now, & when it gets this hot, no one goes outside unless you really have to. I really am bummed by this whole deal. I have always sworn that I would never, ever give up on one of my adoptions, but over the past 2 weeks with the increasing accidents in the house, & Obi biting me last Weds. night, my patience is becoming severely strained. I do not want to ask the rescue to take him back as I don't want him getting the reputation of being returned as I know that warns prospective parents off. I truly love the little guy, & want to help him, but what do I do???:eek::(

Any & all suggestions are welcome.

Debbie

[k9diabetes]

Do you think you could train him to the equivalent of a cat box? With heat of 113, I can't say as I blame him for not wanting to go out - it's got to be murder on his feet if nothing else! Maybe an indoor solution is truly needed in such weather conditions.

Natalie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Deb,

sorry it took me some time to reply but I had a very busy week, all fun things :)

Now on to Obi... if it is indeed the heat, you could try using those body cooling products before letting him in the yard and I would opt for either the cooling vest or the cooling bodywrap, not the bandana's and such. If he stays in your yard, it should not pose a problem to his paws (if you have grass) And perhaps, if there is a "designated area" for Obi to poo and pee, you could set up a (argh...I don't remember the name...so here I go again, describing what it is I mean :D) like an umbrella but much bigger, meant to shelter you from the sun and thus creating a shady area for Obi to do his thing ;)

If it is heat related, I hope this will help.

Sas and Yunah :)

[BestBuddy]

Deb,

Sorry to hear you are having so much trouble. I am guessing that the bite has amplified things as well.

We have summer temps in the 100's here too (not all the time) and our dogs spend some time outside without any problems. They do have lots of shade though.

There is an indoor dog toilet that is just a plastic tray with a grid and a piece of fake grass on top that can be used for inside. I know of someone who trained their dog on it and then placed it outside and it worked great and they were able to pack it away after a few months.

The other thing is a boyband (boy nappy?) that could be used when Obi is inside and removed when he goes out. It seems to make them understand not to pee while it is on although it does catch it if they happen to relieve themselves at the wrong time. It at least means less clean up. It won't help for the poo though. I used one for Joey when we first got him for a few weeks and it helped.

Jenny

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Deb-
I don't have anything additional to offer, but I understand your frustration. It takes a lot more patience than I remember to train these puppies. I think it also seemed better because the previous two dogs stayed home all day while I worked. They often got a mid- day break....but it's still a long time and a time for me to feel like my brain did not turn to mush.
-Susan

[StarDeb55]

It's time for an Obi update. After getting all of your input, & it's much appreciated, I also talked to one of the trainers a PetsMart. It was an interesting conversation. I told him what was going on, mentioned my thoughts about Obi not wanting to go out in the heat, & everything all of us have discussed. The first thing he said was, "Do you have a dog door & does Obi use it?" My response was yes to both questions. He proceeds to tell me that dog door trained is not potty trained. I was kind of shocked. He told me that we are going to have to go back to "square one". Leash Obi, take him out, stay with him. Don't stay out forever, trying to get him to do his thing. Limit the trips to about 15 minutes, if he doesn't relieve himself, come in, & try again in an hour or so. Don't stay forever, because all that is going to do is make you aggravated, & Obi will know it. Of course, reward & praise him heavily when he succeeds.

So the first couple of days, we are out in the backyard about every 1 1/2 hour, Obi on the leash, & absolutely no success. It's 112-114 outside, & both of us are dying. Of course, he pees/poos in the house. I decided that if he has something against the backyard right now, we'll try the front yard. So the past 3 days, we have gone to the front yard, & even walked down a couple of houses & back, Obi has successfully voided everytime!! Yeah!!!!:D:rolleyes::p Now, I can't seem to get the timing right to get him out to successfully poo outside. The early morning (or middle of the night poos) are happening occasionally but not every morning. In the evening, I will take him out about an hour so after his supper, figuring that will be an ideal time to try to get him to poo, & have had no success. I try to keep a close eye on him in the house during the afternoon/evening to catch the signals the he needs to poo, & haven't yet. For instance, I got him out after supper last night, nothing. I checked on him every time he left the bedroom to make sure he wasn't going up to his favorite corner to poo, couldn't catch him. After we came in this morning, here's a poo in his favorite corner that apparently happened sometime last night as it was totally dry, & very easy to pick up. If anyone has any ideas to solve the poo problem, I'm all ears.

I guess my frustration level stems from the fact that I've adopted "pound puppies", rescue pups, etc. for 20+ years, now, & have never had any issues with house training. I guess I have been very lucky, & just need to keep working with Obi, & he'll get there.

Debbie

[k9diabetes]

That's great that you figured out that part of the problem is the back yard.

I know for our dog, peeing on a leash didn't take long for him to get used to but he was opposed for a long time to pooping while on leash.

I wish I could say exactly how we got him used to doing it... I think we just started taking him out when we knew he needed to go and sticking around out there until he figured he had to do it. But with practice, he has gotten completely comfortable now with pooping while on a leash, which is a very handy skill.

So it might take Obi a while to get used to doing his business with you holding him on a leash.

Which also makes he think about his timing...

It seems like Obie tends to need to go in the middle of the night. Could be he just doesn't want to go where offered right now or doesn't want to go in the presence of someone else.

But it also could be that he just doesn't need to go at that time of day. I wondered if perhaps a change in his feeding schedule might help shift his poop schedule.

Our dog Jack is extremely predictable about when he has to poop. Half the time, I know he needs to go before he does! So I can take him out some times and I know he is very unlikely to need to poop and we come right back in. But if I figure he needs to go and he's too distracted to figure it out for himself, we hang out in the yard longer and I tell him to do his business and sometimes to "hurry up" and eventually his body figures out what I already knew! LOL

No matter how handy it would be for me to have a say, Jack is gonna poop on his schedule!

I also know that Jack will get a signal to go after he's eaten or been up running around. Like first thing in the morning. After he's played a little and had some treats as part of the Dad-goes-to-work ritual, he almost immediately is ready to go out and do his business. Where if I'd taken him out before that activity, he wouldn't have gone.

Takes a lot of detective work I guess!

Seems like you're on your way to figuring Obi out.

These guys definitely come with quirks. Our dog never wanted to go in the house but had never learned to ask to be let out. It was a big relief to him just that we didn't get mad at him when he had an accident. And there's still quite a bit of joyous celebrating and one of his favorite treats after he poops.

Natalie

[Roxee's Dad]

Hmmmm.. Kind of reluctant to post this :o but in the past when we have taken in a new doggy or have moved, and when there were accidents, I have peed outside in the designated dog yard. :o

Sometimes I have picked up their poop from a walk or in your case from his favorite corner and dumped it in the designated doggy area.

In most cases I got positive results. :) Maybe you have a friend with a dog that wouldn't mind peeing in your back yard....They always seem very protective of their toilet area.... Mine are. If one pees, the other one/s have to go find where and pee on top of it leaving the last scent.

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Debbie :)

It's an average that it will take an hour after eating before a dog needs to poo. Puppies of course, are a lot faster than that and once adult, some dogs can take up to 4 or 5 hours before they need to poo. So it would be handy if you can figure out what Obi's "waiting period" is after he ate his food.

Also, quite a lot of dogs recquire exercise before pooing... My Yunah needs to run for quite some time and then will poo easily. If, for some reason she can't run, we can walk (at walking pace) for an hour and she still doesn't poo. I also see it with Victor, the pup that's temporary in my care. Before pooing (eventhough it is shortly after he ate) he starts running 2 laps around the garden, sits and poo's :D So maybe Obi needs some exercise first. Throw some balls, get him active, before taking him out to poo...

Sas, Yunah and Viktor :)

[lulusmom]

It's time for an Obi update. After getting all of your input, & it's much appreciated, I also talked to one of the trainers a PetsMart. It was an interesting conversation. I told him what was going on, mentioned my thoughts about Obi not wanting to go out in the heat, & everything all of us have discussed. The first thing he said was, "Do you have a dog door & does Obi use it?" My response was yes to both questions. He proceeds to tell me that dog door trained is not potty trained. I was kind of shocked. He told me that we are going to have to go back to "square one".

Deb, I have had numerous dogs who where dog door trained and never forgot how to use the door when they needed to do their business. I would have been shocked too had somebody told me my dogs were not house trained because I would have begged to differ. I understand what he's saying but every dog that has ever used the doggie door in my house has been or is potty trained, housebroken, house trained, whatever you want to call it. My mother and brother have also had a doggie door for as long as I can remember and aside from one of my mom's dogs, not one other over the years have peed in the house. They were potty trained. I am no expert and the trainer you spoke to may very well know what he is talking about but I do adoption clinics at many Petcos and Petsmarts and it's pretty obvious why the majority of trainers I've dealt with at these stores are working there instead of running their own businesses.

[Rene]

Hi Deb...I posted this awhile back so I will repost, it really did work. Designate one spot for his "business" in your back yard that Obi will have access to while you are gone and return to it each time for pee/poo training, it helps send the message. The tip about shading the area with an easy-up sounds like a good one too. Also, good for if it rains. My little precious does not like to use her door if it is raining...had to put one up for her! You might try leaving a fresh movement in the "spot" for a marker until you have success.

The only thing I would add is also take him out about 30 minutes after eating. As, that is when the current meal is moving which helps stimulate the "urge" for the old movement which may be "standing by"!


Hi Debbie,

Once again, I agree with Sas. Along that same line this sort of applys. When we go out of town, and Snoop can't go with us, she spends time with our dear friends.

During conversation it came up, that that despite their lush landscaping, my little darling had been doing her business in the middle of their expensive artifical putting green!

The little dear likes the royal carpet rolled out for her business and does not like getting her feet wet or dirty! They love her so much and never mentioned it. So, by the time I found out about it she pretty much had a bad habit.

What I did was...the next time we visited I left the leash on. I immediatlely took her to the new spot that was acceptable. No, hello at the door...nothing...direct deposit to the spot. The command was, "Take a break"...once. I stood there quietly till we had success. I told them not to clean up her #2 business that week if it was deposited in the right spot. When we went to visit this was the routine until the habit was broken...did not take long.

You might try taking the little prince out immediatly upon your return from work...no frills/no fan fair...with a leash...to the spot of your choice (same spot every time). Give him your pee command. Stand firm...no chatter...make him work it out around you on the leash. If needed, give the pee command again...don't over do the command. When you have success...everything changes...make his whole world the world he wanted when you first came through the door. All about him!!!!! Love him...praise him. Just a little defered attention.


Rene & Snoopie

[StarDeb55]

Rene, I have taken your advice, (John's, too), & put the last 2 house poos close together in the rocks just off the back porch. The problem is, right now, Obi seems totally against going to the backyard for anything. I had to call out today because of my back. He is so used to going out at 330 AM, that even with me not going to work, he was insistent on going. I thought, "Right, we'll just go to the backyard." He absolutely refused to budge off the back porch. I gave up, went in & threw on a pair of shorts, dropped treats in my pocket, & away we went out the front door. We were back in <10 mins. with 2 successful pees. Unfortunately, my pain pills make me kind of dopey, so I really couldn't keep track of Obi very closely. When I got up about 1 PM, there was a poo up in his corner.

I know that we will just have to keep working, & patience is a huge virtue on my part, right now.

Glynda, you're probably right about the trainer I spoke to at PetsMart. I just wanted to tell you, though, that I spent $600 on a trainer that my vet highly recommended when Chew was having serious housetraining issues several years ago, among a couple of other things. The guy was an idiot. He may have know what he was doing, & I think he did, but he was totally unreliable. I could never get in touch with him either by phone or e-mail. He was far from prompt in answering any of my messages, would cancel appointments at the last minute, I finally gave up. This was even after he said that he was absolutely in love with Chewy, & would keep working with us for as long as it took, even past the 6 lessons that I paid for.

Debbie

[BestBuddy]

Hi Deb,

Just wondering if you have managed to praise Obi for his poo. Have you managed to see him do it outside? Maybe he has previously been punished for doing his business without knowing it was okay in some places and not others so he is just doing it in hiding when you are not looking. He might feel confined in the backyard and with you watching him he doesn't want to get into trouble.

I know how hard it is to not growl or even show a bad attitude when you discover these unpleasant brown blobs but he may need to know it is okay to poo but only in the set places.

Jen

[StarDeb55]

Jen, I will admit that it's more than likely that I have pitched a fit about the whole house training failure thing these past 2 weeks. I have been trying to be very careful not to "loose it" when I have clean up duty, & just clean up, & forget it. I know that an attitude improvement on Mom's part seems to have cured the pee in the bed problem. Now, that I have a designated poo place off the back porch per Rene's instructions, we will start trying that tomorrow.

Debbie

[Rene]

Debbie I am so sorry about your back pain. That is absolutely no fun :mad:.

When you are feeling up to it and if this miserable situation with Obi has not resolved you may want to try this. Make it a little more environmentally friendly for the both of you so you can "potty train" on a leash. That is going to be key. Choose a spot close for you off the back porch, maybe where you can shade it with the easy-up and most importanty nice on Obi's feet. Mabye the rocks are too hot, a bag of that decorative bark from the home improvement store might do the trick. Deposit his poo's and if someone made a urine mistake in the house put the rag there too. Even if it is not his...he will want to mark over it.

Sometimes if you go back to basics it helps to. I don't know if Obi has a crate but if he does and he does not view it as punishment you may want to try to expedite the process by putting him in it for a bit after he eats and letting him nap or chew a treat. Then quietly take him out and directly to his spot on a leash and give him his command. If he does his #1 or #2 praise him, let him off the leash & make a big deal out of it.

I hope this helps and hope you feel better.
Rene & Snoopie

[BestBuddy]

Deb,

We are all sending such positive thoughts that hopefully soon this will be something you can look back on and smile. I know it seems too hard sometimes but when so many things are bad then that just means there are so many things that can improve.;)

I had toilet issues with Joey who still has many other issues (I wonder if he hasn't been dropped on his head in his previous home/s:D) He still will not do his poo while I am watching. He knows to do it outside now which is good but if I am out with him he just won't go. As soon as I turn my back and give him some privacy out it comes!

Jen

[addy]

Sending hugs to you too. I remember only too well with my Koko so I understand how overwhelming things can get.

We were giving Koko freedom in the house while we went outside to do chores or go in the pool. He started having "accidents" here and there. Now we put him in the kitchen, like we do when we go to work. No accidents. For whatever reason, he can't handle having access to the whole house when we are not inside. Sometimes I think he sees a dog in the street or a squirrel and gets all worked up and goes to pee.

The only other thought I have is perhaps Obi needs a physical just to make sure something is not going on with him. If you already did that, sorry I missed it on your thread.

Sending love and hugs and support,
Addy

[Rene]

Deb,

I forgot to mention. Our retired working dogs could not be in the house when we were not here so we put one of these pet mist systems on the easy up on the patio with zip ties. We found it at wall mart but I saw them on line too. They are real small...just the right size for an umbrella or easy up. They do not use a lot of water while you are gone but made a big difference in temperature. We even put ours on an inexpensive hose timer. Might entice the prince toward his "environment"!

http://www.mistymate.com/pet-mist-system.html

Also, if Obi is experiencing fear over poo isues and you have leeked anger to Obi over it you should work with Obi together on it to help him get over his issues. A fearful dog weather he is bolting from cars or thinks he is being punished for poos can find his place again and that is with you. Frightened dogs find security when on walks on leashes because they are with their pack and they do not have an excuse to bolt. They become more confident with their pack. They look to the pack leader (you) to set the tone. If you stand quietly and confidently while Obi "works it out" on the leash at the training spot you may find that, if he is experiencing fear, he will move around to the back of you. That is ok...you have alrealy shown him a spot that is marked telling him it is ok to do his business. Your calmness will further enforce your pee/poo command. He will "take" the privacy he needs by moving around to the back of you...don't turn or watch. They are clever creatures, sometimes misguided by fear and bad habits. They need us to succeed!

Hugs and success!
Rene & Snoop

[StarDeb55]

Also, if Obi is experiencing fear over poo isues and you have leeked anger to Obi over it you should work with Obi together on it to help him get over his issues. A fearful dog weather he is bolting from cars or thinks he is being punished for poos can find his place again and that is with you.

Rene, I read your post while I was a work today & have been pondering this over all day. I'm no dog whisperer but I think I know what triggered Obi's phobia about the dog door & backyard. The night he bit me, I was trying to force him out the dog door because he was acting like he was going to vomit in the house. He didn't want to go, & I was forcing the issue. His response was enough of this nonsense & whipped around, biting me on the left thumb. As I posted when this happened, I was extremely upset, & yes, I leaked anger, big time. After that night, was when all of the problems started.

I tried just casually taking him to the backyard when I got home walked over to where I had placed the last 2 days "deposits". He looked at me like, "What's up with this? Why aren't we out the front door?" I tried walking him around the yard for a few more minutes. He let me know in short order that he wanted no part of the backyard. I probably made a mistake by giving in, but I did, took him out the front door, walked him around 4-5 houses with 2 successful pees, & we came in. Took him out about 2 hours later to the front, with another successful pee. I'm more than willing to continue to go to the front, but I just have to work out how to convince Obi that pooping outside is ok.

Trust me, I'm not giving up on him. How can I when I lay down at night on my back, he runs up by my head, lays down with his head on my shoulder, & falls asleep. Overall, he is a good boy, he want to please, we just got to get over this one issue.

Debbie

[Rene]

OMG DEB...I bet you are right!

That is exactly what happened after Snoopie witnessed Arnies death outside her door in the dog run. She refused to go outside to pee at night and pee'd just inside the door on the floor for several nights after. I had to rerange the dog run to make it look different and spend quality time out there at night to get her over it.

Try leaving the patio door open just to get him used to going out there again. Maybe get some treats and make a game out of the doggie door or smear peanut butter all over the opposite side of the door that he is on :p

Good Job!!!

[Bailey's Mom]

I am just amazed at how much thought and love everyone puts into figuring out their dogs,.....and at how helpful everyone else is when they have something to offer. The dogs are just like little people who can't talk and don't always understand our words. They want to please us, I think (not sure about Bailey!), and if you just keep at it, sooner or later you start seeing changes. I think I'll go post this on Bailey's thread so I don't forget that!! :)
Susan

[addy]

It makes total sense. Look at Zoe, I completely changed it up when taking her to the vet the other day and I got a 100% different response. She was a totally different dog.

You could do it in stages. Go to the back door, call him, give him a treat and then walk away. Do that 3 or 4 times. Then open the door and call and treat 3-4 times. Then prop open the door and maybe he would chase his squeaky toy out the door. Break it down into baby steps. As soon as he is comfortable with each step, proceed to the next.

Love,
Addy

[Rene]

Hi Deb,

Here's another one that might encourage the little prince.

Snoop had that hole in her eye grafted over yesterday and the "cone of shame/honor" in her case makes it impossible for the little dear to get out her doggie door. I did not want to leave the patio door open over night so last night I went to Wall Mart and got a pack of those disposable puppy training pads. I hardly got one on the floor and she pee'd on it! Usually if she "mistakes" she has such a guilt about it especially when I am cleaning it up. But for some reason she immediately understood it was ok :o They are so smart.

Maybe you could try "placing one" and moving it toward "his spot". Also, have you tried blocking off "his corner"?

Hang in there,
Rene & Snoop

[StarDeb55]

Obi continues to do well with a "pee" on our trips around the neighborhood. He is still doing poos in the house, up in his "corner". I have even started leaving the arcadia door open to the backyard in the mornings while I'm getting ready for work & he will still poo in the house. On days off, I will leave that door open even longer, but with no luck. It's impossible to leave it open in the afternoon when it's 110 outside. I will say it's kind of funny to watch him when I get him out the front door in the afternoon. He hits that blast furnace, & puts on the brakes like, "you expect me to go outside in this heat". I know it's hot for him as he will dash from one shady spot to another as we make our little jog. With the heat, I try to keep these jogs no more than 10 minutes for both of our sakes.

When it comes to blocking his access to that corner, I'm pretty sure that he is simply going to move somewhere else. I'm saying this because I tried some of that spray from Nature's Miracle that is supposed to discourage them from soiling in off-limits areas, it worked, but Obi simply moved to a corner of the dining room.

I beginning to think that I'm going to have to wait to concentrate on the poo part of the problem until our weather cools off, & I can keep Obi outside longer. Delaying, though, concerns me as I don't want this to become an ingrained habit. I no longer express any upset when I find the poos, just go get the stuff to clean up, & I don't say a word.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Maybe one of those cooling coats (http://tootlewear.webs.com/dogcoolingcoats.htm)will help? :confused:

Sas and Yunah :)

[StarDeb55]

Well, I wish I could say all Obi issues are solved. He's still pooping in the house. I actually came close the other morning to having him poop while we were on our walk, right when we got up. We had gone the way we were going for walks when it was cooler. I saw him making the motions like he needed to poo, & sure enough. Unfortunately, dumb Mom kind of stopped him because he was going to poo in the middle of the sidewalk, & I wanted him to move over 2 feet to a landscaped area around an apartment complex. OOPs, when I disturbed him, he totally stopped. When we head out on work days, it's 315AM, I am now taking him clear around the block & he pees like a champ, 3-4 times, will not poo. I wish I could go the way were going but it's just not well lighted for me to be walking through there that early. Limiting our route to the neighborhood which is very well lighted, is very much safer. We may be getting a handle on the peeing in the house, I think, as no one has made a puddle in the house in about a week. There is an occasional OOPS on the bed, though, which irritates the stuffing out of me, but I say nothing. I have at least put incontinence pads in underneath my mattress pad so the cover on my Sleep Number mattress doesn't take a hit.

With the regular walks, Obi has re-learned the trick to run up to a bush, or wall, lift his leg for a second, then run to me for a treat. I look at him, laugh, & tell him, "You are so trying to fake me out! You know the rule, no pee, no treat." I think he knows when I say, "no pee" that he's not getting in thing, so he keeps on going. Obi's latest trick, though, is he has learned the joys of unwinding a role of toilet paper, & pulling it across the bedroom. He totally wasted nearly a whole roll on Thursday. There is a simple fix for this as there is a door that I can close that will keep Mr. Busybody out of the little room where the commode is.

I am so ready for cooler weather to get here as I want to attack the pooping in the house issue so bad, but when it's 108-110 outside, neither of us can stay out very long. I know if I can keep him out for a half hour or longer, I'm pretty confident we can have success. Cooler weather is still 2+ months away. I know he's as miserable as I am when we go out after work or the first part of the evening because he is almost vaulting from one shady place to the next. The walks in the early morning are better, but even at that time, the temp is still 90.

Debbie

[BestBuddy]

Hi Debbie,

It does sound like you are getting a bit closer.:) I do wonder if Obi is "ashamed" to do his poo close to or while you are watching. Do you walk him on a long lead so that he could get a little distance and maybe you could even turn your back if he looks like it might happen.

I am no expert but some dogs have funny little quirks, I know I have a couple of strange dogs too.

Jenny

[frijole]

Back when I first got Annie she would take forever to poop... never just did her job like Haley did.. Annie had to do circles forever... I always thought there was something up with her pooper. ;) I would let her out as far as her leash allowed and hold it tight.. seemed to help her do her thing. Or at least it seemed to work so that is what I ended up doing.

Only other thought is... are her stools hard? Could she use a softener or canned food to help make the task easier? I just never knew a dog that didn't poop during a walk. And I don't envy you walking in that heat. Hang in there! Kim

[Bailey's Mom]

Debbie-
I remember way back when, when we had Peaches. She was a puppy and we went over to visit my very prim and proper folks. We were all sitting in the living room, except her, and out from the hallway she came running.....toilet paper end piece in her mouth. It's still one of my fondest memories.
I love the story of Obi trying to fake you out with the false pee move.
They are very smart, aren't they?
-Susan

[StarDeb55]

I'm pretty sure the O man has a problem, so we're headed to the vet on Friday afternoon. He pee'd in bed yesterday morning about the time we were getting up or right after we got up. He jumped up this morning when the alarm went off & apparently leaked urine about halfway across the bed. I can't say 100% for sure that's what happened as Mom has to head to the pot herself when the alarm goes off. I found it when I came out of the bathroom. About an hour after we came in from our walk when I got home from work where Obi pee'd probably 3-4 times, Obi was laying on the tile just outside my bedroom door trying to recover from walking in the heat. I had to go to the front room for something, & proceeded to step in a puddle of pee right where he was laying. We were laying down after the evening walk, & cleaning up in the front, I got up to do something, & here's another piddle spot in the bed in the general area where Obi had been. Obi has become incontinent in the past 36 hours, so I'm guessing he has a UTI at a minimum. The vet's office wanted to know if I would bring a urine with me. I said that I would prefer a cysto be done because if it has to be cultured that is a much better sample than anything I could collect. Hopefully, it's just a UTI which is an easy fix. All I know is I am now washing my sheets for the 3rd time in 36 hours, & it's getting OLD!!!!:eek::(:mad:

Debbie

[StarDeb55]

Obi's UA is back. No blood or detectable bacteria. He does have sturvite crystals, with a higher pH. I decided not to culture, as I agree with my GP's line of thinking. It's simply not normal for a young male dog like Obi to suddenly become incontinent without a good reason. The plan is 2 weeks of antibiotics, along with that Royal Canine urinary SO formula food. I really do not like that food, but I need to make sure we get this cleared up. We will repeat the UA in one month. The vet said to keep a close on his symptoms, & see if the incontinence clears up. We did discuss the possibility of just straight incontinence & using Proin, but my vet said that the chances of a young male dog becoming incontinent like this are pretty small, though not impossible. It's more common in females. I laughed, told him this I already know.

I know several of you are thinking, she's the lab tech, why didn't she culture. If Obi had been older, I probably would have, but I really do agree with the vet. His UA results are just not normal for a dog who is about 2 1/2 years old without an underlying reason. It's also a case of Mom's pocketbook, between the office visit with cysto, picking up food & antibiotics today, the cash register has now hit $200. I may be kicking myself for not doing the culture, if his symptoms don't clear up, but I think Obi will be ok. What I do feel bad about is letting this go for 6+ weeks, swearing up & down, it's a behavioral issue, when Obi really did have a problem. I guess it's just a case of thinking this kind of thing doesn't happen with a young dog. I have learned a lesson.

Debbie

[SasAndYunah]

Hi Debbie,

I so understand you, deciding not to culture, I would have made the exact same decission :) Now let's hope and see if the antibiotics will do the trick...

Hugs and good luck,

Saskia and Yunah :)

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Debbie-
How is it going with Obi?
-Susan

[StarDeb55]

Sorry, it took so long to post, Susan. Obi is doing ok. I'm pretty sure the incontinence is basically gone, so the vet was right about going on & treating him for a UTI. He will need a recheck at the vets shortly. There is an occasional accident in the house, but that is mostly my fault. I've been having so much trouble with my back that I may lay down, fall asleep, & forget that Obi needs to go out. Well, if it has been 5-6 hours without a potty break, I would be peeing in the house, too. I just say nothing, & clean it up. I have been on vacation since 9/1, & the strange thing is that I have noticed that the pooping in the house seems to have slowed down, not stopped, but I'll take it. There have been some mornings that I get up & there is absolutely nothing to clean up, & I know that Obi did not poo after supper, in the house at least. I know he goes out the dog door, & IMO, there's no way he could go 24 hours between poos, so he must be doing his thing outside at some point. He still will not poo on walks, but it's still too hot to keep him out in the afternoon/evening for very long. I know one thing I have to take him to PetsMart & get one of those "no pull" leads for him. He just insists on pulling, & there are days with that 22 lbs. pulling on my back are not good. When I'm having one of those days, I will tell him, "Obi, you're killing me, you have to stop pulling." It doesn't make a difference, but at least I feel better when I say it.

Debbie

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Debbie-
I really understand about the pulling.:)
I try to turn my back to Bailey-so she'll not feel invaded. She does turn her head and look at me like....."Don't you know this is PRIVATE??"
I'm glad this are okay.

-Susan

[StarDeb55]

Well, of all days for Obi to make a breakout through the garage to try to take a tour of neighborhood, it was this afternoon. I had an epidural put in my back at noon today, so was just creeping around the house. I had gone out to the garage to back the car out, & pull the car back in, as I had pulled to far over to be able to get in the freezer. At that point, there was no escape attempt. I stepped back in the house, remembered that I had to put my garbage barrel at the curb for pickup tomorrow. I stepped out the garage door, facing both dogs, thinking I had the door blocked, so Obi couldn't make a break. WRONG!!! I'm barefooted, screaming at him, & realize, try yelling "SIT!" at him to see if he will stop. I was quite shocked when he dropped immediately. I slowly started walking toward him, telling him to sit/stay, & he did fairly well. When I got close enough, he bolted, again, across the street. (Fortunately, I live in a cul de sac, so traffic is minimal.) I yelled sit, again, Obi dropped right down. I slowly walked toward him, picked up a small stick, & started waving it at him to distract him. The stick was enough of a distraction for me to grab his collar. I got him back to the garage, had him in front of me, let go of Obi, to open the garage door into the kitchen, & he's off to the races, again. One of my neighbors across the street saw this comedy act, grabbed her dog's leash, & came out to help me. I had crossed the street & was trying to use the "SIT" again to ease up on Obi. Well, Mr. Smart Guy, now, knows that Mom is playing a big trick on him, so he tries to take off, again.:eek::(:D My neighbor calls him, & he dashes over to her to say hello. She bends down, pets him a second, than grabs him, & slams the leash she has on him. I thanked her profusely, took him from her, & carried him back to the house. I told my neighbor that I had actually caught him the first time, but made the mistake of letting go when I got him back in the garage. She said that she knew as she had pretty much seen the whole thing, & when he bolted the second time, she decided I needed some help. She gets the "Good Samaritan" award in my book for this week. I know she is a dog lover as she has a pretty big shepherd mix breed girl that I see her walking in the morning most days. I know her girl must be getting up in years as their walks seem to be at a pretty gentle, sedate pace. I do think Obi & I provided much needed entertainment for about 4 or 5 other neighbors as I saw them standing around in their driveways & yards watching all of the shenanigans.

Debbie

[Rene]

Too funny Deb,

Now tell us...what were you caught wearing while dashing all over the neighborhood? :rolleyes:

Rene & Snoop

[StarDeb55]

In regards to the proper dress code to chase one little brat of a dog:p:D, I was wearing a pair of ratty old shorts, tank top (no bra), & bare-footed. I didn't dare go in the house to get shoes on, or I would have lost him.

Debbie

[frijole]

:D:D:o:D:D:o:D:D:D:o:D:D:D:o:D:D:D:o

[Rene]

Deb,

I just knew he was gonna catch you with some unmentionable off. After all...he is a man! :D

[Bailey's Mom]

Great story!
-Susan

[StarDeb55]

OMG, WE HAVE HAD A BREAKTHROUGH!!!!!:p:rolleyes::o

Obi & I just got back from our evening walk, he actually pooped for the first time ever about 1/2 way through the walk. I thought he had stopped to mark an interesting bush, wasn't paying a lot of attention, happened to look down, & he's squatting. :D:rolleyes: I was so ecstatic, I would have picked him up & kissed him, if it wasn't for my back. Needless to say he got practically all of the treats left in my pocket, & told him repeatedly that he was the best boy ever. Let's just see if this holds up.

Yeah, I don't have clean up duty before I go to bed tonight!!

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Debbie

I know this happened a month ago but I just was looking through threads - to funny -- glad I read it tonight - i needed to laugh:):D And your probably didnt find it funny at the time I am sure!!! Well I am glad all turned out well and I hope your back is better - hope all that running around didnt make it worse !:eek:

Up to date now ----- So glad Obi pooped!!! Way to go Obi!!

[StarDeb55]

Obi is having a small problem the past week or so. He was overdue for his grooming due to Mom's financial constraints. I had John groom both boys this past Monday & was hoping that we would get them cleaned up in time before the "poopy butt" syndrome hit. Wrong!! Last Thursday, Obi got up after we went to bed. I heard him whimpering in the front of the house, got up to see what's wrong. Turned on the light, there he is trying to poo, & he can't. His bottom is an absolute nasty mess. I got a bunch of the wet wipes I keep to try to clean him up. He went crazy & would not let me touch him. He finally resolved this problem, by "wiping" on my bedroom carpet. After having dogs for years, I am usually prepared for these kinds of disasters.

Now, last Friday when I got home, I went out to clean up the backyard. I noticed Obi circling, trying to poo, whimpering, he absolutely can't poo. I went to try to get a look at his bottom. He was just covered with poo, but what I could see was very red, swollen, & looked like it might have had a tad bit of blood. I called the vet right away, & they could see him in 30 minutes. To try to shorten this tale of woe, the vet was concerned about an anal gland rupture, but Obi was cleaned up, there was no evidence that this had happened. His anal glands didn't even have to be expressed. His bottom was so red/swollen, the vet gave him a steroid shot, & put him on Simplicef for 10 days. If I thought Obi was having soft stools before the Simplicef, diarrhea was well on the way after 3 days of antibiotics. I called a halt to the meds after 3 days, as I simply didn't think they were needed. Yes, I know it's really bad not to finish a round of antibiotics, but Obi's bottom looked fine after 3 days, no redness/ swelling. He's got to have a recheck at the end of next week for that UTI during the summer, & this episode, & the vet is going to kill me for stopping the antibiotics.

Obi is still having a problem with very soft stools to the point of having the runs. I've cleaned up one horrible mess this AM, & one bad one a few minutes ago. I think what may have aggravated the situation is the little smart a$$, broke into the food buckets yesterday. I have 2 screw top buckets stacked on top of each other in the corner of the kitchen. I make extra sure I put the lids on as tight as I can as Obi has done this once before. Right now, one bucket is about 3/4 empty, & that is the one stacked on top. I got home after guitar yesterday, go in the kitchen, & about fainted. Obi has pulled the nearly empty bucket onto the floor, knocked the bucket on its side, & drug it to the other side of the kitchen. He managed to get the lid off, & must have had a good size early dinner. I know he ate as he really was reluctant to eat much of kibble I put in his dish when I got home. I think the messes I've cleaned up today are strictly because the little smart aleck stuffed his belly so full yesterday, it made him sick. I will say he doesn't act all that sick, because he is still acting like a pistol, & getting into mischief.

Now, to the question I need to ask. I'm going to stop & get some plain canned pumpkin on my way home tomorrow. Obi weight is 23 lbs., anyone care to offer a proper amount of pumpkin to try to get the runs under control? I really don't want to admit to the vet what I did, so that's why I'd like to get this under control before we go for the recheck.

I will, now, finally be buying one of the Gentle Leader leashes for Obi as he still wants to pull me over the countryside on walks. I've been in physical therapy for my back for 3 weeks & the therapists are having a fit about this. They worked with me today to show me how to stabilize my back & abdominal muscles to try to protect myself from the pulling, but I have promised them faithfully that I will get that leash.

Sorry for the long update.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Debbie

ohhhhh Obi is a smart one for sure getting into the buckets of food:eek: Sorry Obi had such an awful time with the poop!!! My Aunts pug had a bad poop problems and the vet said to give him one teaspoon in his food twice a day -- dont know if that helps??? Penny is 77 lbs and my vet said to give her a tablespoon twice a day --- every vet has their own dose Hope things get better soon --- Hugsssssssssssssssss

[Harley PoMMom]

So sorry to hear that Obi has diarrhea, I think I would try adding 1 teaspoon of pumpkin once a day for a couple days and see if there is improvement, if not, then add another teaspoon being given twice a day. Hope it helps.

Love and hugs,
Lori

[Rene]

Hi Deb...your Obi updates are always so...interesting. We look foward to them! ;)

A friend had a pup that had such a itchie bum and drug it around "expressing" himself also. The vet found he was wormie.

[Bailey's Mom]

Hi Deb-
I am not a dog, but I have two experiences that your tale brings to mind. The doggie I had when I was little went outside to poop and tried and tried and couldn't. My Mom witnessed this, so she took her over to the vet that day. It turned out to be a tumor the size of a grapefruit.....and this dog was not much more than 10lbs. (I don't mean to scare you-I'm just sharing my experiences.)

Then about two years ago, I kept having diarrhea....every time I went. I kep taking OTC for diarrhea. This went on for days. I finally got an appointment for a colonoscopy and end of long story, I wasn't completely voiding. The subway train was stuck in the tunnel....and Here I had been taking anti-dairrheal medicine! I just increased the fiber in my diet.

I do think if it is painful for Obi to try to eliminate, there must be something wrong going on. Good luck wiht the pumpkin. Anyone ever try banana?
-Susan

[StarDeb55]

Susan, Obi is fine. I think it was simply a case of letting his "bum" get too "fuzzy", then it simply got caked over with poo, & nothing could get out. The vet was concerned that he might have strained hard enough to collapse a mucus membrane that is somewhere in the rectum/anal area, if I understood what he said. You know you have a tendency to turn off when discussing this type of topic which is what I did. Obi has show no sign of an discomfort having a BM, so I think he's good. I started the pumpkin tonight. Obi kind of sniffed around his kibble as if to say, "Mom, what is this stuff you put in here?? I'm not sure I like it." He ate all of his kibble, so we will see if the problem begins to resolve.

One thing I forgot, I hope the pumpkin will help alleviate the room clearing gas problem.

Debbie

[Cyn719]

Debbie

Glad Obi is feeling better!!!! Glad he ate the pumpkin - Penny will not hear of it at all !! She is so fussy!!!!! Hope all the plumbing continues to flow smoothly:D:D:D

[Cyn719]

Debbie how is Obi? Is he still eating the pumpkin? Going to the bathroom more normal? Hope so ------ I read your post to Sonja and you mentioned asthma - which my son has and he gets the same thing you do - so what do you do increas the vit c in the winter?? Just like to get ideas to help my son out - hes in college and already had started with the funny cough - from all the dryness in the dorms and all the dust and whatever else is there -- thanks:)

[StarDeb55]

Well, Obi has done it, again. This link from PetsMart will show you want kind of storage bins I use for kibble. The only difference is that mine are flat, not an angle with the screw top lid. Chew's bin was nearly empty, so I had it sitting on top. I got home yesterday. Mr. Smart Aleck had, again, pulled the nearly empty bin off the top, drug it across the kitchen. He managed to pry the lid off, which is what I can't figure out how he's doing it, & had himself an early dinner buffet. I did cut back on his supper as I had no idea how much he had eaten. He, again, apparently stuffed his belly so full, I had a horrible mess to clean up this morning, & Obi has gone back on the pumpkin for the next several days. Short of moving those food bins into a cupboard or on the other side of the door into the garage, does anybody have any ideas as to how to stop the earlier dinner buffets? Cleaning up the messes is really getting old since his highness still refuses to go out to the backyard to do his thing.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2811537&lmdn=Category

Debbie