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Franklin'sMum
05-29-2010, 12:27 PM
Hi all,

Franklin was due for his vaccinations last week. We didn't get them, went the titer test route instead (results aren't back yet). He had been getting the ProheartSR-12 vacc for heartworm, but I don't really want to do that.

Just wondering what you give your babies. He also gets wormed every 8 weeks, so the heartworm tablet doesn't have to do h.worms and intestinal worms all in one, just has to be safe for the boy.

Thanks heaps in advance,
Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx
________
MARIJUANA INDICA (http://strainindex.com)

Nathalie
05-29-2010, 01:11 PM
Hi Jane,

Sorry, no advice on the HW - stopped that 7 years ago. the climate where I live makes HW very low risk.

Just out of curiosity, why would you de-worm if Franklin does not have any worms and then so often. I am just trying to understand as I have never seen the need to de-worm Sophie and Phillip - they never had worms.
Matthew on the other hand I had to give him some dorontal 3 years ago because he used catch and eat mice and picked up tape worms and when I saw those things waving at me that's where I had to do something.:eek:

Nathalie

Franklin'sMum
05-30-2010, 03:26 AM
Just out of curiosity, why would you de-worm if Franklin does not have any worms and then so
often
Hi Nathalie,
I'm not aware that Franklin has worms, but I do 2 monthly worming instead of 3 monthly as stated on the packets as we share food (people food, not pup food ;)) and he gives kisses and sleeps on the bed. I did run this by the vet a few years ago, and he said that the de-wormer only kills what is in the gut at the time, and not for 3 months.


Matthew on the other hand I had to give him some dorontal 3 years ago because he used catch and eat mice and picked up tape worms and when I saw those things waving at me that's where I had to do something.:eek:

Nathalie
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: indeed!:D
Jane, Franklin and Bailey xxx
________
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labblab
05-30-2010, 07:31 AM
Yes, I just recently learned a lot more about the life cycle of roundworms than I ever wanted to know...

My girls are on a monthly heartworm preventative that is also supposed to kill other worms, but Peg came up "positive" for roundworms on her most recent fecal flotation exam. After much contact with the pharmaceutial company, I've been told that there is a small window of opportunity for this to occur depending upon which day in the month the fecal is performed. But that's a whole other issue.

The big point is that dogs can harbor roundworms without the owner's awareness. Unless an adult dog has a major infestation, you may never see evidence of worms themselves in the stool. But worms that are active in the body of the dog will shed eggs in the dog's stool that can lay dormant in the ground for years. If humans (especially children) ingest the eggs by not properly washing their hands after having been working or playing in the dirt, it can result in very serious health problems -- even possibly blindness if the larvae migrate to the eye :eek:. And of course, unrecognized and untreated worm infestations can produce health issues for the dog as well. Usually not as big a deal for an adult dog, but it all depends on the dog and the degree of infestation.

So I've been told that is why regular de-worming and/or fecal tests are important. If you don't want to be routinely administering a dewormer, then it might be wise to have fecal flotations performed every three months or so, just to check for evidence of an infestation. Like Jane has said, with roundworms at least, only the adult worms that are currently present in the intestines are killed by a single de-worming. If the dog is reexposed the next month, then worms will be right back again.

Marianne

P.S. to Jane...we used to give Heartguard Plus chewables to our Cushpup. But that contains other dewormers, as well. Maybe there's just a straight Heartguard that only protects for heartworm without the other additives?

Nathalie
05-30-2010, 12:41 PM
“I'm not aware that Franklin has worms, but I do 2 monthly worming instead of 3 monthly as stated on the packets as we share food (people food, not pup food ) and he gives kisses and sleeps on the bed.”

I am glad Franklin does not have worms.;) I am not quite sure where the food comes into play but dogs don’t develop worms from eating fresh food – worms need a host.
Here is a link that give a bit of info how the most common intestinal parasites can end up in a dog. http://www.avma.org/animal_health/brochures/internal_parasites/cat_dog/internalparasites_brochure.asp (http://www.avma.org/animal_health/brochures/internal_parasites/cat_dog/internalparasites_brochure.asp)

I agree with Marianne’s statement that a dog can have worms without showing any symptoms and not expelling any worms/fragments or eggs.
The decision whether or not to preventatively deworm for me is based on my dogs lifestyle, duration/frequency of exposure, area my dogs frequent eg. high traffic dog park areas, geographic’s, immune system status (a healthy immune system can fight off a lot more then a weakened ) etc. etc.

Parasites don’t like a healthy host, it’s the weak and sick animals that can get overtaken by any parasite.
My point is that for me my first thought does not go towards pharmaceuticals but weighing the pro’s and con’s. Asking, questions such as what is the worse thing that can happen if for example Matthew gets tapes again…. If the answer for me is not a heck of a lot other then that I have to give him a dorontal again then that is totally within my personal comfort level.

Just like us people, my dogs can’t live in a bubble, there are some ‘risks’ we have to take of getting exposed to viruses, bacteria’s every day when stepping out of our house.
I can’t disinfect my dogs inside and out without killing the good ‘bugs’ and provide them a life style they are happy with.
Yes, they sometimes eat road kill and who knows what. But it is also due to exposure that we/dogs develop natural immunity. I have had many foster dogs come in my house with whip/hook and or tapes and fleas. 2 HW +, these dogs came predominantly from rural pounds in the states, picked up as strays, and not once did my guy’s pick up anything – not even fleas. As for hygiene – I use common sense – just as I would with people or other animals – I would not share my fork or toothbrush with another person. But I am also not bringing out any heavy duty chemicals.

As for HW – as I said earlier, in my area its just a money making hype. That little diagram you might have seen at the vets that shows a mosquito biting a dog and in turn the dog is now HW+ and ready to keel over is an insult on the complexity (http://www.heartwormsociety.org/veterinary-resources/canine-guidelines.html#2) of what needs to take place fore a dog to become HW+ and us dog owners.

If you are interested in in-depth information – here is a link to the American Heartworm Association (http://www.heartwormsociety.org/veterinary-resources/canine-guidelines.html) The section with info for vets is where you get the detailed info.

Sorry to be so long winded about this but I wanted to make sure I explain a little more as to why I do things at this point the way I do.

I still don’t have an answer to your original question – perhaps others have researched products that have less risks of adverse side affects.

In the meantime, I found an online version of the Small Animal Clinical Pharmacology (http://books.google.ca/books?id=mrwQ6YJmq6sC&pg=RA1-PA171&lpg=RA1-PA171&dq=levamisole+hcl+dog&source=web&ots=xpOz7BO0-2&sig=SLjRfFwgGkJrcR1ZpZyqwNVv8d0&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=10&ct=result#v=onepage&q&f=false) that might help you in the decision process.

Cheers,:)
Nathalie

sunimist
05-30-2010, 08:16 PM
Hi Jane,

Just wondering what you give your babiesAs to your question on heartworm preventative....
FWIW, and this is only my experience, I only know about one preventative which was prescribed years ago for my babies. However, your vet would be the one to ask.

My girls have been on Sentinel (once a month flavor tab) for years with no complications at all. It is a heartworm preventative, and controls round, whip and hook worms. To my knowledge, and I'm sure I would notice, they never had a case of any kind of worms. It is also a flea preventative, which I really like. Won't kill adult fleas but kills the eggs before they hatch. If ever I see a flea on my girls, I give a dose of Capstar and that eliminates the problem. Had to do that only a couple times over the years. It has worked well for us, but may not be what you are looking for, or what your vet would prescribe.
And to be sure, your vet would be the best and safest advisor on which product would be suitable for your Franklin.

Shelba and Suni

marie adams
05-31-2010, 02:59 PM
Hi All,

I also use Sentinel for Maddie, since she was a pup. We live in a wetlands area in So Cal and she never has fleas. I remember when we had an outside cat many years also and he got fleas all the time--I wish they had had a pill for him back then. Maddie is indoors and out all the time and we have never de-wormed her since the one time she was a pup.

Maddie just eats a pill a month with no reactions and she is 11.5 yrs old now. It is a little expensive, but I have found a place where it is cheaper than at the vets.

I asked the vet if there might be a connection between the Sentinel and Cushings and she said no. This has been the only thing Maddie has taken continually in her life and you never know what causes what.

Good luck with your decision. :)