new here... unfortunately my dog is sick (12 y/o yellow lab)

[ajc]

hi my 12 yr. old yellow lad has many of the symtom's of cushings.
liver alk. 4907
very low thyroid
panting
his belly is starting to buldge
lot's of water drinking
skin condition on his stomach
weakness in his hind quarters
eatting his food immediatly,,(was always indifferent about eatting)
he was on 50mg of deramax a day for a arthritic hind leg.his limp suddenly improved to the point where he's now getting 25mg . the last couple of days we stopped the deramax ,,,the vet thinks that he's producing so much cortisine interally that his limp has improved.

so were going to treat the symtoms ....which we believe to be cushings....i just don't want to put him through the testing for this disease,,,i want to keep him home,,,were going to be starting the lysoderm (sic) loading tuesday or wed. i'm feeling uneasy about this whole situation and just want to do whats best for my dog ,,so any advice would be welcome from others who have been on this journey.
i'm going away for the weekend so i'll check back in sunday night.
(were taking the dog with us,,,,he always travel with us)
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[ajc]

i forgot to thank you all for this forum ,,,,i found you via the labrador retriever owners forum,,,the last few days since we found this out have been a rotten time.
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[gpgscott]

Sorry your pup is not well, but very glad you are here.

Please go to the important information area to learn about Lysodren loading.

Also please let us know about the tests done to confirm Cushing's.

You have mentioned low thyroid, are you supplementing?

Here is a link to the resources.

Best to you both, Scott

http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=10

[ajc]

were not going to test for cushings,, the vet agrees thats she's certain he's cushinoide(he has many symtoms) and were not going to get into all the testing $$$ ,so were going to treat the symtoms....he had a thyroid test done on monday which came back very low.
thanks
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[gpgscott]

were not going to test for cushings,, the vet agrees thats she's certain he's cushinoide(he has many symtoms) and were not going to get into all the testing $$$ ,so were going to treat the symtoms....he had a thyroid test done on monday which came back very low.
thanks

Sorry, but this is a big mistake.

It is irresponsible to treat for Cushing's without a clear medical and clinical diagnosis.

Scott

[StarDeb55]

I'm sorry to hear that your pup is having so many problems, but please do not use either lysodren or trilostane until you have a confirmed diagnosis of Cushing's. Cushing's is one of the most difficult diseases to diagnose in our pups as Cushing's symptoms can overlap with both low thyroid & diabetes. Administering either of the 2 drugs used to treat Cushing's to a healthy pup is a recipe for disaster. When these drugs are given to a healthy pup, they can cause the pup to get very sick, very fast, to the point of it being life-threatening. I'm pretty shocked that your vet would even consider allowing you to start lysodren loading without a confirmed diagnosis.

There is no doubt that it is stressful both time wise & financially to get a confirmed diagnosis of Cushing's, but once you do have a diagnosis, & get the medication dosage stabilized, the costs go way down. The testing to get a diagnosis really isn't that stressful for a pup. The diagnostic protocol usually consists of 1-2 blood tests, & possibly an abdominal ultrasound.

We can help you understand all of the steps necessary to get a confirmed diagnosis, so you can treat your pup safely.

Please keep us posted as to how you proceed.

Debbie

PS- Forgot to add that the low thyroid result may be a false result, if Cushing's is indeed your pup's problem. Our pup's frequently develop what is termed sick euthyroid syndrome in conjunction with Cushing's. Once the Cushing's is treated, the thyroid issue usually resolves. In a pup with Cushing's who show a low thyroid test which was probably a T4 test, this low result must be confirmed by what is called a free T4 by equilibrium dialysis to make sure that sick euthyroid syndrome is not in play.

[Harley PoMMom]

Hi and welcome from me and my boy Harley! I am so sorry for the circumstances that brought you here but so glad you found this forum.

Other non-adrenal illnesses such as diabetes and hypothyroidism do share some of the same symptoms as Cushings. That is why it is vital for one to get a proper diagnosis for their pup. Giving Lysodren or Trilostane, which are usually the two life-saving drugs rx'd to our cush pups, can be lethal to a non-cush pup.

The two tests I strongly recommend that you have done on your pup are an ultrasound and an ACTH or LDDS test.

Cushings is a slow progressing disease, many pups go years without being properly diagnosed and starting treatment. So please take your time and get your pup properly diagnosed before starting any treatment. I know how confusing and frightening this journey is but remember we are here for you and your pup, so ask all the questions you want and we will answer them the best we can, ok. ;):)

Love and hugs,
Lori

[jrepac]

at the very least, please consider getting a UCCR test done first; if it indicates that Cusings is possible, get the ACTH test done. Those 2 alone will tell you a lot and should not cost you more than $300 combined. UCCR involves getting a urine sample...ACTH, you must leave your dog at the vet for the day. But, these 2 tests are the absolute minimum you need to have a chance at properly diagnosing Cushings.

Lysodren and Trilostane (lyso in particular, IMHO) are powerful medicines that should only be given to a pup where Cushings has been confirmed.

If you are really only concerned w/minimal testing/procedures and want symptom relief alone, I suggest you speak to your vet about Anipryl. Some dogs respond nicely to it, it is low risk and not excessively expensive (if you get the generic version). Plus, you usually do not have to do a lot of follow up testing; progress is judged based on clinical observation. Either it works, or it doesnt...you will know from what you see.

But, no lyso/trilo without a confirmation; any vet that suggests that, well please run the other way (I encountered that once, and yes, I ran far and fast).

Jeff

[labblab]

so were going to treat the symtoms ....which we believe to be cushings....i just don't want to put him through the testing for this disease,,,i want to keep him home,,,were going to be starting the lysoderm (sic) loading tuesday or wed. i'm feeling uneasy about this whole situation and just want to do whats best for my dog ,,so any advice would be welcome from others who have been on this journey.
i'm going away for the weekend so i'll check back in sunday night.
(were taking the dog with us,,,,he always travel with us)
As Jeff has said, if you are not wanting or able to perform testing, then Anipryl (or perhaps even ketokonazole) are the only drugs that you should be considering. If you are planning to load your dog with Lysodren, you MUST perform monitoring ACTH tests along the way. Otherwise, as Lori has said, you are risking a life-threatening overload of the drug. Lysodren is very safe and effective when administered properly. But the only way this can be done is by checking its effect on a dog's cortisol level and blood chemistries through blood testing. And none of the Cushing's testing (either for diagnosis or monitoring) requires leaving your dog at the vet overnight -- just blood draws performed in the office during the day.

If nothing else, please have an ACTH blood test performed prior to beginning treatment. This is the same test that you would repeat after Lysodren or trilostane treatment is started. When used before treatment is begun, it helps to confirm the diagnosis. When used after treatment is started, you can tell by comparison how well the treatment is working -- and most importantly, it ensures that your dog is not put into any danger by overmedicating. You cannot always tell how the medication is working just by the outward appearance of the dog. Changes can happen very quickly when you are in the midst of Lysodren loading, and you need to be on top of the internal effects of the medication.

PLEASE continue to talk with us some more before starting to load your dog next week.

Marianne

[EllyAugie]

Hi, I noticed your post this morning, welcome to the group.
You will save yourself allot of heartache and worry if you go ahead and do all the testing needed before giving any meds for Cushing's. I promise you that you will have allot of unanswered questions if you begin without complete testing.
In the long run you will save money if you properly diagnose, instead of going down one path and then another and then find you feel lost.
Please, please take heed to the advice given here by these knowledgeable caring people.
I would also recommend going to a vet school where there are specialists, this way you will be absolutely sure you are headed in the right direction. Please do this so you will feel confident that your decisions for you dog are the right ones.
You will save in the long run by doing this even tho initially it seems more expensive. Please properly diagnose, you will be doing your lab a favor and yourself. This way if it is Cushing's, the specialists will guide you to the correct meds and appropriate dosing to gain control of the Cushing's disease in the best way. This is not a disease that you hit or miss with, it's very serious.
Elly and Augie

[zoesmom]

hi my 12 yr. old yellow lad has many of the symtom's of cushings.


so were going to treat the symtoms ....which we believe to be cushings....i'm feeling uneasy about this whole situation and just want to do whats best for my dog

I completely agree with the others. LISTEN to you gut and do not treat with lysodren until you have a confirmed diagnosis. If cost is an issue, there are links in our 'Resource' section to some helpful financial options. Here's the link: http://www.k9cushings.com/forum/showthread.php?t=212

If you treat without doing any more testing, you could end up spending way more if your dog has an addisonian crisis (the lysodren would cause his cortisol to drop too low if it is not cushings). Worse yet, you could lose him if that situation occurs. (Other diseases can produce symptoms similar to cushings.)

The idea of doing a uc:cr is a good one. It's a simple, inexpensive urine test and you can collect the samples and take them in. If it's negative, then it is definitely not cushings. If it is positive, only then would you need to move onto to more testing (positive simply means it might be cushings.) Please reconsider your vet's advice. Any vet who would suggest this approach without doing the necessary testing is a BIG RED FLAG. Where do you live? Maybe we can direct you to a vet who understands this. Sue

[clydetheboosmom]

Hi - I have a 12 year old yellow lab (Clyde) and a 13 year old Am Staff Terrier (with suspected lab mixing ;) Bailey)..both are Cushings - Clyde with Atypical Cushings, Bailey with Pituitary Cushings (Trilostane).

Testing saved their lives. If you could have read my long thread (I've been in this group a long time) you would see that my history is long.

I believe that testing and treating will give you back your buddy...please, reconsider.

Thank you.

Lynne, Clyde & Bailey