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Carol G
08-28-2009, 10:16 PM
My little cat Atticus Finch is scheduled for an endoscopy to biopsy her small intestine on Monday.

Long story short, an ultrasound showed inflammation of her small intestines and we paid our IM vet a visit on Wednesday. As did the GP vet, he feels she either has IBD or intestinal lymphoma and this procedure and the biopsies should determine which. The good news is that either should be fairly easily treatable. And, further good news is that is an area in which our IM vet is very experienced.

Still, some good thoughts and/or prayers would be appreciated.

She is not absorbing b12 so I will be giving her a series of b12 shots -- and I'm nervous about that. My first cush pup was also diabetic but that was over 10 years ago. So, some good thoughts there would help too.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

Harley PoMMom
08-28-2009, 10:26 PM
Hi Carol,

Altho it is comforting that your IM vet is very experienced in this field, it still will be nerve wracking. :eek:

Many prayers and some very good thoughts are being sent your way for Atticus Finch, and for you, of course. :)

Will be watching very closely for updates.

Love and hugs.
Lori

labblab
08-29-2009, 12:53 AM
Dear Carol,

Tons of positive thoughts being sent to you and Atty, as well as my hopes that once the problem is determined, the healing treatment can begin.

Many (((hugs))),
Marianne

MiniSchnauzerMom
08-29-2009, 02:04 AM
Carol,

Sending an abundance of positive thoughts and saying special prayers for Atty Cat and you. It's good news that either condition is easily treatable. Will be thinking about you and Atty on Monday and looking for an update.

Louise

P.S. I have no doubt you will have instant recall on your injection technique when the time comes. :D

Spiceysmum
08-29-2009, 03:02 AM
Hi Carol,

Sending best wishes for Atty Cat for her endoscopy on Monday.

My non cushings dog, Brin, has just been diagnosed with Small Intestine Bacterial Overgrowth and has just finished his six week course of Vitamin B12 injections along with a three week course of antibiotics. The improvement is amazing. He had lost lots of weight in a short space of time and was feeling very sorry for himself but has already put half of the weight back on and his fur is shiny again. Not absorbing the B12 takes so much out of them but I am sure Atty will soon be well again.

Linda

BestBuddy
08-29-2009, 07:10 AM
Carol,
Atty has good wishes coming from over here too.
Jenny

Roxee's Dad
08-29-2009, 09:20 AM
Keeping Atty Cat in my thoughts and prayers. Hoping for the best of all outcomes.

Squirt's Mom
08-29-2009, 01:36 PM
Hi Carol,

Sending prayers and positive thoughts to you and Atty for the very best outcome.

Let us know how it goes.
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

gpgscott
08-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Carol,

Very best from here to you and Attycat.

Scott

Carol G
08-29-2009, 07:05 PM
Thank you everyone. We appreciate the thoughts and prayers and I know they will help. I knew this was the place to go for support.

Linda, thank you for the info on your experience with B12 injections. That is very helpful and it will be good for me to remember when I am going through my anxiety about giving the injections.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

mytil
08-30-2009, 05:26 AM
Hey Carol,

I too am sending loads of positive thoughts for your little Atty (adore the name).

Please keep us posted
Terry

ChristyA
08-30-2009, 09:24 AM
Hi Carol,
Lots of prayers and positive vibes coming your way. I hope all goes smoothly with Atty. I'm glad you have a vet that is experienced in this area.
Take Care,
Christy

lulusmom
08-30-2009, 10:13 AM
Hi Carol,

Prayers and positive thoughts for Atty are being sent from your neighbor in So. Cal.

(((Hugs)))

Glynda

forscooter
08-30-2009, 06:58 PM
Carol,

Everything is crossed here in NJ that we can possibly cross!

Hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

Carol G
08-30-2009, 09:54 PM
Thank you all -- the support is so very much appreciated. I will keep you posted.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
08-31-2009, 03:42 AM
Hi Carol,

I know today is the day for Atty's testing. Wanted you to know that I'm here and still thinking positive thoughts for your Atty.

Louise

Harley PoMMom
08-31-2009, 07:05 AM
Hi Carol,

I know today is the day for Atty's testing. Wanted you to know that I'm here and still thinking positive thoughts for your Atty.

LouiseMe too!

Love and hugs.
Lori

Squirt's Mom
08-31-2009, 11:37 AM
Hi Carol,

Keeping you and Atty in my thoughts and prayers today.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Carol G
08-31-2009, 02:24 PM
Thanks everyone. I dropped her off about an hour ago at the specialty hospital.

Poor little thing, she is now getting very creative in finding hiding places. Took me quite awhile to find her and get her out of the latest hiding place this morning. And of course the places she finds haven't been cleaned in forever -- the dust bunnies have evolved into monsters.

I will keep you posted.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
08-31-2009, 02:35 PM
Carol,

Will be watching for your update.

Yeah, I too find that my kitties tend to get creative with their hiding places once they've been in that carrier and know where I take them when they're in it. :eek: Unfortunately (for me) they have excellent memories too!

Louise

Squirt's Mom
08-31-2009, 03:09 PM
I have named my dust monsters! :D:p;)

Carol G
08-31-2009, 05:02 PM
I just heard from the IM vet and the procedure is done. She is starting to come out of the anesthetic and I should be able to pick her up in a couple of hours.

There were no big tumors or polyps. They were able to get good biopsies and could have the results possibly by the end of the week. So now we are in a holding pattern until those come back.

I'm so grateful that all went well with the procedure and anesthetic.

Thanks for all the support,

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

sunimist
08-31-2009, 05:05 PM
Carol, that's wonderful news! Thanks for the update.

Shelba and Suni

Roxee's Dad
08-31-2009, 05:15 PM
Good to hear Atty Cat is okay. :) Now the wait:(

Still keeping good thoughts and prayers that the results come back normal.

Harley PoMMom
08-31-2009, 05:37 PM
So happy too, that everything went well with Atty's procedure, and now like John has said the wait :(... but we're here for you, Carol, remember that, ok.

Hoping and praying the results come back normal.

Love and hugs.
Lori

gpgscott
08-31-2009, 05:41 PM
Poor little thing, she is now getting very creative in finding hiding places. Took me quite awhile to find her and get her out of the latest hiding place this morning. And of course the places she finds haven't been cleaned in forever -- the dust bunnies have evolved into monsters.
Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

Carol, I remember a move Vandy and I made in 1988. We had two Him's, littermates and we figured that it would be best to leave the cats until last.

Well when we went into the house and could not find anyone, (it took nearly half an hour) they were both on top of kitchen cabinets, peering down on us. (no idea as to how they managed getting up there, but they did)

I suspect, Atty is like all of the others I have known; demanding and contrary. I am hoping for you all that the outcome of the procedure works in your favor.

Fuzzy hugs to you all. Scott

MiniSchnauzerMom
08-31-2009, 06:35 PM
Carol,

Glad that Atty's procedure went well and there were no big tumors or polyps. Waiting....arrrrrghhhhh!!!! Hopefully the results will be back by the end of the week.

Give Atty some extra pets from me when she gets home!

Louise

Squirt's Mom
08-31-2009, 08:35 PM
Hey Carol,

So glad the procedure is over, that it went well, and hopefully Atty is back home by now safe in your loving arms. Prayers continue for good results!

Speaking of hiding....I used to have a kitten and baby rabbit that were best buds and their favorite hiding place was in my gas oven broiler. Weeelllll, one day I came in from work all in a rush, flipped the oven on as I passed by, and went to change clothes. :eek::eek::eek: I suddenly thought about the kitten and bunny, ran back to the kitchen, threw open the broiler door and dragged the drawer out. The bunny was long gone - didn't see her for 3 days - but the kitten was just sitting there looking around with these huge green eyes while her whiskers started to curl! :eek::eek::eek: Talk about feeling like a HEEL! I sat and rocked that kitten while I cried for hours; she just curled up in my lap and snoozed away like nothing had happened. I never found either one of them in the broiler again and I didn't use the oven for quite some time.

Let us know when the results come in!
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Carol G
08-31-2009, 10:24 PM
Thanks everyone.

I really appreciated the cat hiding stories!

We are home now and Atty just had a very small meal which she gobbled up. She does not seem upset by the whole thing. In fact, she tolerates these vet visits far better than Winnie & McGill ever did.

They showed me some pictures of her stomach and small intestine -- very interesting.

The most flabbergasting thing was when I was waiting to pay. They give an estimate range and you pay a deposit equal to the low end when you drop them off. So, I had my credit card out and was waiting to hear the damages when the front desk person looks up with this surprised look on her face and said "we owe you $52."

I'm going to take that as a good omen.

We are both happy to be home and we will start the waiting for the results tomorrow.

Again, thank you everyone. The support helps so much.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

Carol G
09-04-2009, 07:42 PM
Atty Cat has small cell intestinal lymphoma. I was hoping for IBD but the IM vet is very optimistic on this -- says it is very treatable. The treatment is with oral medication (pred & weakest kind of chemo) and the average survival is 2 years. He's had cats go as long as 4-5 years with it. Most (80-85%) respond well to treatment and problems are few and far between. Not what I was hoping for but certainly could be worse.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

BestBuddy
09-04-2009, 07:46 PM
I agree that the news could have been better but hey we have to take what we can get and the treatment sounds promising. When does the chemo start?

Jenny

Harley PoMMom
09-04-2009, 08:21 PM
Sounds like the IM is very experienced with this type of treatment...which is very good and it also sounds like he is very optimistic about the treatment...which is very good.

Carol, we're going to think positive here...only positive. :) The odds are in Atty's favor, and you have been thru some much already, it's about time for a positive change, you most certainly deserve it.

Please keep us updated on how you and Atty are doing.

Love and hugs.
Lori

AlisonandMia
09-04-2009, 08:29 PM
I believe Natalie (K9Diabetes) has a kitty (Gus) with the same or a similar diagnosis. I'll PM her.

Here's a link to her thread about Gus: http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155&page=2

Alison

Carol G
09-04-2009, 09:09 PM
Thank you all.

The chemo will start as soon as the drugs are ready at the vet clinic -- which may not be until Tuesday because of the holiday weekend. They will call when they are ready and I'll go pick them up and start.

I just read the thread on Natalie's cat and it sounds like the diagnosis is similar (although Atty definitely does have small cell lymphoma or early stage). The treatment is the same as Natalie's cat -- pred & leukeran. I like Natalie's tip of putting the pred in an empty capsule. I've taken pred myself and it is horrible.

I definitely feel like we are in very good hands with the IM specialist. He was wonderful for Winnie & McGill and I only hear extremely good things about him from other vets.

I agree, the positive thoughts and attitude are very important.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

k9diabetes
09-04-2009, 09:46 PM
Hi Carol,

I was pretty freaked out when Gus was first diagnosed but he's done really well for more than a year on the pred and leukeran.

He started out on a lot more pred than we are giving now. I believe it was one tablet twice a day originally and Gus was heading Cushinoid from so much pred - didn't grow back his fur from the ultrasound and fur was thinning all over and his belly was flabby. So we cut him back to one tablet every other day and he's maintained a long time on that.

After refusing the salmon cream cheese for awhile, he's back to taking his pills in that and the cream cheese sticks well to the capsule.

Gus started down the diagnostic road with high calcium levels and then we did a couple of Texas A&M GI tests to help sort out what exactly he had. Then the vet did an ultrasound with needle biopsies.

Aside from the Cushings tendencies on too much pred, Gus has had absolutely no problems with the meds. He was doing really really well until he started reacting to the turkey. Once we changed to lamb, he's been doing well again.

My understanding is that they believe that IBD is a precursor or can lead to lymphoma and that one shades into the other along a spectrum. Will they be changing Atty's diet protein source?

Natalie

Carol G
09-04-2009, 11:02 PM
Prior to the endoscopy/biopsies, the only test that Atty has had that isn't normal is low b-12 and thickened/inflamed small intestines on the ultrasound. She had the pancreatic enzyme test and that was fine.

They did put her on duck & green pea but she only ate that for a short time. At this point, they are telling me to just get food down her. I'm sure the pred will increase her appetite.

It is really good to hear that your Gus is doing well.

The plan is to start her on the drugs, I'm to check in with the IM after a week and then take her in after 3 wks for exam and blood panel.

I had read that IBD can turn into lymphoma. I don't know if she has IBD too. I will ask about that.

I will try the salmon cream cheese. I've been poking the anti-vomitting pills down her throat with one of those pilling devices. It would be better for her if I didn't have to do that. She struggles a little but isn't really bad. My cat before Atty was on a bunch of meds and my arms were always a mass of scratches.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

k9diabetes
09-05-2009, 01:47 AM
We had Gus checked out because he seemed just not generally well... lethargic, even for him, was limping or weak in the back legs, and was losing weight. Those nonspecific kinds of symptoms where you know something isn't right and that's about all you know. So we did a blood panel and that turned up the high calcium. Which apparently is a sign of lymphoma and something else... I forget now what.

When we first switched to a single protein, Gus wouldn't eat the Royal Canin food as he just wasn't much for eating loaf type foods. So we started giving him baby food and he lived on nothing but baby food (no onions in it!) for many many months. Now he is willing to eat some of the Lamb and Green Pea Royal Canin canned but not enough to keep his weight up. He's gone from 12 pounds down to 10.25, got thin with the diarrhea and then just hasn't been able to gain it back.

So I'm increasing the amount of Lamb baby food I give him as he will eat a lot more calories of that.

They have never been much for loaf foods - that's how they wound up eating the pouches until the food recall. Now Katie's back to plain old dry kibble.

Both of them (brother and sister) have always been extremely sensitive to diet changes.

There's no pilling these two and the stress would be worse for them than the lack of medicine.

Natalie

Carol G
09-05-2009, 02:54 AM
High blood calcium is also a sign of a parathyroid tumor -- I had a dog that had that. He had surgery for it and then he was fine. A human friend had the same thing.

I will get some of the baby food to use if I need to tempt Atty. I may try the duck & green pea again. I might think about mixing the baby food with the duck & green pea.

She needs to put some weight on too (weight loss and throwing up more than usual were her initial symptoms). Hopefully the weight gain will come after she gets going on the new meds. The IM said it could take 4 to 6 weeks to start seeing results or it could be sooner.

The b-12 shots should help with weight gain too. Once the meds start working then the b-12 absorption problem will resolve too.

I'm starting to feel ready to get going with the new meds -- anxious to get her to feeling and doing better. She is such a nice cat.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

k9diabetes
09-06-2009, 05:10 PM
Lately Gus is refusing the Lamb and Green Pea... all he wants to eat is the baby food. Okay with me but I wish it was a bit more of a balanced diet.

Carol G
09-06-2009, 07:35 PM
When I was at the pet food store yesterday, I found a canned EVO cat food that is 95% duck. I didn't see any chicken in it (another brand said 95% duck but it had chicken too). I bought some thinking that it might be good to mix a little in with the duck & green pea to try to make it a little more appealing. I don't think they had lamb but maybe another brand does.

I picked up the meds yesterday but I'm waiting to talk to the IM before starting as the pill container says Chlorambucil (Leukeran) but the info sheet says Chloramphenicol. I'm guessing they just printed out the wrong sheet but being the way I am, I want to double check.

I was freaking out a little today after reading instructions for handling the Leukeran -- that sort of thing really makes me nervous. The vet hospital did break the tablets and insert the 1/2 tab in a capsule.

I am pretty sure she is not going to take a pill in cream cheese or anything -- today I tried to get her to take both a pill pocket and cream cheese without anything in either and she refused both.

Carol & Atty Cat & always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
09-06-2009, 09:33 PM
I picked up the meds yesterday but I'm waiting to talk to the IM before starting as the pill container says Chlorambucil (Leukeran) but the info sheet says Chloramphenicol. I'm guessing they just printed out the wrong sheet but being the way I am, I want to double check.
Carol,

I must be the same way you are. :D I think you made a wise choice about waiting and confirming with the IM. I'd be doing exactly the same. Chloramphenicol sure wouldn't do a thing for Atty's lymphoma. :(

Hope the added Evo with duck will make that Green Pea/Duck food a bit more tasty for Atty.

Louise

k9diabetes
09-07-2009, 12:13 AM
My cat's leukeran is a whole pill... 2mg tabs we get from Walmart - looks like the maker is GSK. They have a light brownish red coating on them so don't crumble the moment they touch something moist. If she will take up a little wad of canned food, you may be able to hide it in there.

Whether I use food or cream cheese, I wad it up into a little ball just bigger than the pill, along with two small balls that don't contain a pill, and sort of barely rest them on the dish so they pick up easily. And nothing else in the dish. When he takes it with his tongue, the whole ball will usually go into his mouth at once. I hold the dish up to him and he will usually take in all three as long as it's something he likes. Then, when he's finished his pills, I put his meal in the bowl.

I confess... I handle those pills all the time. I figure the dose is so small that it's not likely to do much to much to someone who outweighs the cat a few times. I only touch it long enough to pop it out of the bottle and wrap something edible around it. But then I was always the type of person back when I was a microbiology major who wasn't afraid to eat my lunch in the lab! ;)

Natalie

Carol G
09-07-2009, 08:49 PM
Thanks Louise & Natalie.

I've left a message for the IM vet and made a list of all my other questions too.

This sort of feels like when I was loading Winnie on Lysodren -- just scary.

This has been a difficult weekend for me-- miissing Winnie and McGill terribly and so scared for Atty. That's the thing about grief, you go along thinking you are coping, sort of, and then it hits like a ton of bricks.

I think for right now, I will have to pill Atty. But, I will work at trying to find something she might want to eat enough that I can get her to take it in food with your method Natalie. She isn't bad to pill, I just know she doesn't like it.

I think the real problem with handling the Leukeran is when the tablets have been broken.

Natalie, that is funny about you eating your lunch in the lab. I read warning labels and freak out.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

forscooter
09-07-2009, 08:53 PM
Carol, I wish I had some words of wisdom...I am trying to follow along. I am still sending the very best wishes that you get this all sorted out and I can imagine being scared all over again! And I agree.....grief is like a wave that can just knock out your knees sometimes when you least expect it...I wish I could help with that too! :(

But I am here rooting for you and Atty and hoping this will all be figured out and things will get better....and calmer!!!

Lots of hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

Dawn
09-08-2009, 04:15 AM
our thoughts and prayers are with you

Harley PoMMom
09-08-2009, 07:03 AM
Carol,

I too, have been reading along but have no words of wisdom :(, and like the others, I am sending positive thoughts, best wishes and keeping you and Atty in my prayers.

Love and many hugs.
Lori

Carol G
09-08-2009, 11:55 AM
Thank you all for the thoughts and prayers. The support helps so much.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

gpgscott
09-08-2009, 03:47 PM
Carol, I am just catching up.

Cats for some reason are not prone to the iatrogenic Cushing's associated with chronic administration of prednisone, so you see pred being widely prescribed for cats.

On the former board I posted a description of how I administered pred to a cat which had been particularly mellow until she we required to take pred twice daily due to cancer. (Pred tastes AWFUL)

I would take a q-tip and take off most of the cotton, then take a bit of cold butter and mold it around the pred and then stick it to the end of the q-tip and it would bind in the little bit of cotton left. Then you put it in the freezer. You take it out and let it warm for just a tiny bit, you scruff the fuzzy, put them on their back and open the mouth, insert the pill, touch any part of the throat with the end of the stick, the mouth snaps shut, (previously on your fingers, causing significant laceration, bleeding, and use of words not appropriate for mixed company) You withdraw the stick and hold the fuzz u/sdown until they swallow.

This worked pretty good for us.

Hugs to you all.

Scott

Carol G
09-08-2009, 11:01 PM
Thanks Scott. The vets have been telling me that cats do very well on pred even long term.

I like the butter idea. I had to take pred once and it is truly horrible.

I appreciate all the support.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

Carol G
09-09-2009, 03:47 PM
Well, I did get the Leukeran down Atty this morning but it was a real struggle. I first gave her the Ĺ tab of Cerenia she takes for the vomiting and it didnít go down well. So she wasnít happy about that. I waited about an hour and then gave the Leukeran. She fought me and spit it back out so I had to poke it down her throat again using my fingers instead of the pill plunger. Then she was really unhappy. But, I got it down her and, as far as I can tell, she hasnít thrown up anything. I still need to get the pred down her. I have put the pred in a capsule and Iím going to try Scottís trick of wrapping in butter & freezing.

Iím sure a big part of the problem was that I was nervous.

There is a little bit of a bright spot Ė I was able to get her to eat 3 little tiny cream cheese balls from my hand. So maybe we can keep working on that and I can get her to take the Cerenia and pred in cream cheese. Iím going to go get some salmon cream cheese Ė see if that might sweeten the deal.

I might look for anchovy paste too Ė does anyone know if that is a no-no?

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

gpgscott
09-09-2009, 05:03 PM
So maybe we can keep working on that and I can get her to take the Cerenia and pred in cream cheese.
Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

Carol, my advice is to not put the pill into something that is 'food'. It is my experiece that they will begin to refuse the food as soon as they associate it with the pill, and they will.


I might look for anchovy paste too Ė does anyone know if that is a no-no?

Since you know you are dealing with a terminal condition I see little reason to dwell on this aspect as long as the food offered does not have an interaction with meds. I think anchovies are an excellent idea and if you cannot find paste you can find whole fillets almost anywhere and mash them yourself.

Scott

Squirt's Mom
09-09-2009, 05:15 PM
Hi Carol,

Is there any way the pills could be crushed then mixed with anchovies or sardines...something really smelly she might like? Or even in her food if you use canned...if not it might be worth a try. Just be sure the food portion is much, much more than the med so the taste will be better disguised. Another thought is to see if there is a liquid form of the meds you could use that might be easier to get in.

Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers,
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Carol G
09-09-2009, 05:31 PM
Thanks Scott & Leslie.

That is a good point about associating the pill with the food. And, while it is terminal, the average survival is 2 years so I am planning on doing this for some time.

I think the Lukeran has to be poked down the throat. It shouldn't be crushed because it is a chemo drug. While I could get them in liquid, I don't want to do that because the handling for the Leukeran is much more hazardous in a liquid.

I worry that the pred would be even worse in a liquid tastewise.

The Cerenia should be a short time thing as the vomiting will stop once the Leukeran and Pred start working. So then we will be down to one pill daily and one every other day.

Giving the Pred this afternoon went a little better and she wasn't nearly as upset after it as she was this morning. I gave her a little tuna after the pilling this afternoon and she ate that right up. So maybe that will help to give her something she likes to eat right after.

The sardines are a good idea.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

Harley PoMMom
09-09-2009, 05:56 PM
Hi Carol,

I don't know if these links will help or not. :(

These are step by step instructions with pictures on how to pill a cat.

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/ClientED/cat_meds.aspx

Quick & Easyô Pill Dispenser: Designed by veterinarians for a quick and easy way to administer oral medications to cats, dogs and other animals.

http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=0&pf_id=1346

Wish there was more I could do.

Love and hugs.
Lori

forscooter
09-09-2009, 06:38 PM
Carol,

Still here...still hoping things get into a routine...still wishing I could offer you something...and still learning myself!

Huge hugs to you both!! THAT I can do!!!
Beth

Carol G
09-09-2009, 11:14 PM
Thanks Lori and Beth.

That web site on how to pill a cat was helpful. I didn't realize that tilting the head back could cause the mouth to open. I have a couple of those pillers but I saw one on that web site that looks a little different than the ones I have and I think might be better.

I do think Atty and I will get into a routine with this and be fine. It is just a little bit difficult to get used to for both of us now but we will improve.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

gpgscott
09-10-2009, 04:44 PM
Carol,

I am also remembering that if Atty will not take pred orally that you can administer it transdermally. You would need a script from the Dr. and a compounding pharm would give you an ointment which you would massage into the ear.

Better to get Atty to take the pills.

Scott

MiniSchnauzerMom
09-10-2009, 05:29 PM
Hi Carol,

Hope the pill routine went well today. I have a 17 year old kitty, Motley, who on more than one occasion has had to take pred. I've never used a piller and Mot is one very stubborn cat who doesn't think twice about chomping my finger and is sooooooo good at spitting those pills out. I do crush the pred, mix it in a tiny amount of water (or could be a flavored liquid ) and put in a plastic syringe, the kind the vet will give you for liquid meds. I take her gently by the scruff, tilt her head back....mouth opens....down goes the plunger, in goes the pred. This technique has worked out well (for me anyway) and takes no time at all. Mot may be unhappy for about 2 seconds and then merrily goes about her cat day. :D

She has had some pills that I've managed to get into her mouth and down her throat that she didn't like and she drooled all over the place but has never done that with the diluted pred routine.

Louise

Carol G
09-11-2009, 01:04 AM
Thanks Louise and Scott.

Scott, I agree it is better to give her the oral Pred. Louise, I will try your scruffing and tilting the head back method. I think part of my problem is the way I'm approaching her.

Took a couple of times today with the pred but I did get it down her. I'm convinced that there is a way that will be fairly easy with her. I just have to figure it out.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

Carol G
09-11-2009, 02:30 PM
Today I cleared off a small table in my office. I put Atty up on the table to pill her. I used the pill plunger followed by a little bit of water from a syringe, then put her down on the floor and gave her a tiny bit of tuna. So far I've given 2 pills (Cerenia & Leukeran) and it has worked well. I still need to give the pred today. I think much of the problem was I was either trying to hold her in my lap or sit next to her on the sofa before -- just wasn't approaching her right.

She doesn't seem particularly upset by it. I'm going to try to find something that is a special treat for her to give after the pillings. Maybe anchovies or sardines.

Perhaps I'm on the right track but, as with everything, we shall see.

Anyhow, I'm less stressed and that has to help the whole process greatly.

Thanks for all the support -- it is so nice to have a place where everyone understands.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
09-11-2009, 07:17 PM
Hi Carol,

I'm happy that you're feeling more relaxed about Atty's pilling and the new routine was a success today. I'll bet Atty can sense that you're more relaxed too. I think the special "after" treat is a great idea. My kitties really love those sardines (yuk!)

Is Atty gobbling up her food with the Evo added and have you started giving the B-12 shots? Hope you're more relaxed about giving the shots now also.

Take care, Carol, and I'll be checking back regularly to see how you and Atty are doing.

Louise

Carol G
09-12-2009, 12:03 PM
Thanks Louise. I know it helped that I was more relaxed. Your explanation of giving your cat the pred & water mix helped -- it made me realize that it should be a matter of fact, no nonsense approach in order to work. I think putting her on the table tells her it is important business plus it gives me a better angle on her.

The pred went down fine yesterday too -- just have to give 2 pills today and haven't done either yet.

Haven't tried the EVO with the duck and pea food yet. The IM said feed her what she will eat so I'm sticking with a California Naturals salmon & sweet potato and some of the Tiki Cat tuna for right now.

The b12 shots are going great & I'm very relaxed about those because I've been taking her to the clinic for one of the techs to give. I may get up the courage for next week or I may not.

I bought some sardines (funny, I'm a vegetarian now and about the only thing I miss are sardines and kippers) and salmon cream cheese yesterday. She will eat little tiny plain cream cheese balls from my hand so I am curious to see what she thinks of the salmon cream cheese.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

gpgscott
09-12-2009, 04:20 PM
Carol,

The shots are not a big thing and I think Atty will appreciate not being taken to the office for them. You can do it.

The thing I want to say is that do not count on the pilling to be accecepted, a cat is not a dog. Be ready with another plan if Atty takes issue.

Scott

k9diabetes
09-17-2009, 05:01 PM
I have been concerned about Gus as he's still thin and had some diarrhea. So he had the FULL /Expensive workup at the vet today. Blood panel, urinalysis, pancreatitis blood test, ultrasound, quickie dental after x-rays. Gus has to be sedated even to get blood and urine so we went hog wild while he was under.

Good news is that his ultrasound looked pretty much the same as the last one a year or so ago.

I'm thinking the diarrhea is not a foreign protein issue at all so I think they are going to suggest trying some food that's meant for sensitive stomachs and see how he does with that. As soon as I switched him from the Royal Canin Lamb and Green Pea, which gave him constipation and he wouldn't eat much of it at first and now refuses, to lamb baby food the diarrhea came back.

I was sure hoping he was okay - figured the last thing you and Atty needed was bad news from us! ;)

Natalie

Carol G
09-17-2009, 07:20 PM
Natalie,

That is really great news that Gus' ultrasound looks the same -- he's holding his own. And, that makes us all happy.

Sounds like Gus got the works (and probably so did your wallet) but that is good to get it all done when he has to be out anyhow.

Atty rarely has diarrhea but I gave her some Merrick's food that was a seafood combo a while back and she sure did after that. I should have known better -- the food just looked too rich. I think sensitive stomach must be a real issue for a lot of cats. I hope that food change will help Gus.

You are correct -- Atty and I don't want any bad news.

Atty & I are doing pretty well with the pilling. Today was a 3 pill day and she spit the last one out so we had to have a do-over. She likes the little bit of special food after the pill (for the past few days it has been canned salmon) and she doesn't seem to be bothered by the whole pilling thing for more than a few minutes. I'm hoping that we soon won't need the anti-vomiting pill and the most we have to do will be 2 pills a day.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
09-19-2009, 09:50 PM
Hi Carol,

Was just wondering how Atty and you are doing. Is the pilling becoming a bit easier with each day that passes? How long do you think it will be before you get to discontinue the anti-vomiting meds and change to a two pill daily routine?

Hope Atty is doing better and thoroughly enjoying her after pill special treat. :D

Louise

Carol G
09-20-2009, 12:00 PM
Louise,

The pilling is getting into a routine. I am no longer uncomfortable giving the chemo pill.

Atty doesn't like the pilling and will run from me if she can but once I pick her up, she tolerates it. She will retreat a little bit after I give her a pill (of course she has to finish her treat first) but it is more like retreating behind something in the same room as opposed to I can't find her type of thing. And, it isn't for long.

I think (knock wood) Atty is doing better. She is eating well and the last time she threw up was last Saturday (even on the anti-vomiting drug she was still throwing up at least a couple of times a week). She seems perkier too.

I'm not sure on the anti-vomiting drug. We will have a check up in a week and a half and I'll ask then. I guess I could go a day without it and see but I just don't want her vomiting.

Thanks for checking on us.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
09-20-2009, 03:23 PM
Carol,

Things are definitely sounding improved with Atty doing better, eating well and feeling perkier. Hope the vomiting issue will cease. No, I'm with you...I'd continue giving her the anti-vomiting med until she's rechecked and you have the opportunity to talk to the vet.

Got a laugh out of Atty's pilling retreat routine.....only after she's finished her snack. They do have their own distinct personalities...and they do let us know their likes and dislikes. Glad the pilling is a "short term memory" dislike. :D

Louise

Carol G
09-21-2009, 11:11 AM
Thanks Louise. I had to laugh at her yesterday. After the pilling, I set her down on the floor and then immediately put the dish with the special treat down on the floor. Usually I have to call her because she has already started her retreat. Yesterday, she stood there looking around for the dish & treat.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

Harley PoMMom
09-21-2009, 11:29 AM
Hi Carol,

I haven't posted to your thread much, only because I have no words of wisdom for you, but I do want you to know that I am following along and keeping you and Atty in my thoughts and prayers.


Yesterday, she stood there looking around for the dish & treat.Awww, even kitty-kats can learn new things! Great job, Carol.

Love and hugs.
Lori

gpgscott
09-21-2009, 05:58 PM
Yesterday, she stood there looking around for the dish & treat.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

Cool Carol,

Atty is making the most of her situation. Good for her:D

Scott

Carol G
09-21-2009, 07:47 PM
Thanks for the good thoughts and prayers Lori, kitty-kats are good at learning new things provided it has a direct benefit to them.

Scott, she is definitely taking advantage of the situation. And you are right, good for her.

Today I was all gloved up and ready to give the Leukeran but I couldn't find her. I looked for her for over an hour. I was starting to panic -- I was convinced she had gotten outside or something. Then I found her in this wicker cat bed (the kind that looks a bit like an igloo) that was up on top of a stack of Rubbermaid storage bins. Besides being fairly inaccessible, she hasn't gone in it for at least a couple of years. Cats are full of surprises.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
09-30-2009, 02:49 AM
Hi Carol,

Just checking in to see how Ms. Atty is doing this week. Any more surprises????

Louise

Carol G
09-30-2009, 12:09 PM
Thanks for checking on Atty, Louise. No recent surprises.

She seems to be (knock wood) doing pretty well. She's thrown up a few times in the last week (after going almost two weeks without vomitting) but I think it has something to do with the Cerenia (which oddly is the anti-vomitting medicine) as she throws up 35-45 minutes after I give it to her.

Today we have an appointment at your stomping grounds for her three week check up. Our IM vet will do a physical exam and some blood work.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

Carol G
09-30-2009, 10:05 PM
Today we had the check up with the IM vet. He thought Atty looked good except for being skinny. No weight gain but he said that sometimes it takes 4-6 weeks to see that. Drew blood and should have the results tomorrow -- main concern is that the Leukeran isn't screwing up her white blood cell count.

He said to take her off the Cerenia (anti-vomitting med). Hopefully she will do well without that and that will be one less pill.

While we were waiting, there was one dog that really brought up for me how terribly I miss Winnie & McGill. I don't know why, the dog didn't look like either of them. But, I sure had to work at not crying. But then I got distracted when a Papillion tried to start a fight with a Standard Poodle.

Hoping and praying for good blood panel tests.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

k9diabetes
10-01-2009, 12:43 AM
I got distracted when a Papillion tried to start a fight with a Standard Poodle

Those little dogs are seriously deluded about their abilities!

k9diabetes
10-01-2009, 12:45 AM
We just switched Gus to Royal Canin Hypoallergenic kibble, which is really really politically incorrect food for a cat - the main protein is soy! But he's not doing well on anything else so I figure it's worth a shot. It seems like his food is the main cause of the diarrhea. And I think he will eat more kibble than canned food.

Natalie

forscooter
10-01-2009, 06:30 AM
Carol,
Just poking in to check on you...sometimes, at least with people, those anti-nausea drugs have nausea has one of the top side effects...:confused::confused::confused:...so I am hoping it was just the medication.

Sometimes, a dog will trigger all those feelings you described no matter what...I think it is in the look they give us or just a certain quality that brings it all back. Although, I still fall apart sometimes when nothing seems to trigger it...I'm sorry that happened to you.

But I am keeping my fingers crossed for a great lab report!!!!

Love and hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

Carol G
10-01-2009, 12:21 PM
Thanks Natalie & Beth.

What I found amazing was that the Papillion's owner knew he was a troublemaker and wasn't really watching him. That Poodle could have done serious damage in a few seconds.

When I thought Atty might have IBD, I thought the Royal Canin Hypoallergenic formula looked very promising. Hopefully, Max will do well on it. Keep us posted.

I think for all of us who have suffered recent loss, the feelings are so close to the surface and it is hard to control sometimes. It is all part of mourning.

Now it is on to worrying until I get the lab results. Thanks,

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
10-01-2009, 05:06 PM
Carol,

Glad Atty hasn't given you any new surprises and keeping my fingers crossed regarding the lab results. Sure hope discontinuing that med will stop the vomiting episodes.


Today we have an appointment at your stomping grounds for her three week check up.

You mean my/Munchie's home away from home...:D :D

Louise

Carol G
10-01-2009, 08:42 PM
Thanks Louise -- that definitely is your home away from home. In the past year and a half, I've spent a fair amount of time there too.

Just heard from the IM vet and the bloodwork is normal!!!!!!!!!!:)

I am very relieved. So far, so good on discontinuing the Cerenia (knock wood). Tuesday was the last day I gave it and so far no upchucking. I have to admit that giving one less pill a day is nice. I am convinced that it was causing the vomitting. I looked at my notes and the last 4 times she vomitted was within 30-45 minutes after giving the Cerenia. The IM seemed puzzled by it but I have to believe that is what it was.

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

Harley PoMMom
10-02-2009, 12:00 AM
Just heard from the IM vet and the bloodwork is normal!!!!!!!!!!YAHOO!! :D:):D:)

You know...I have these pills I can take for nausea, when I get one of my migraines they tend to make me sick...anyways, the pills...reglan, if I take more than what is rx'd...well sometimes they bother my tummy...hmmm...stupid me.

Great job on the note taking tho, it is so nice to be able to go back to your notes and say yep I gave my furbaby this and that happened.

Love and hugs.
Lori

Harley PoMMom
01-04-2010, 10:54 AM
Hi Carol,

I was just wondering how you and Atty were doing. :)

Love and hugs,
Lori

Carol G
01-04-2010, 02:47 PM
Thanks for checking on us Lori. Weíve had a couple of set-backs but we are still doing okay.

In early October I had to go out of town for three days. I had a pet sitter coming in to give Atty her meds and take care of her. I didnít realize how extremely upsetting it would be for her and she ended up with an UTI. We had to switch antibiotics part way through and she ended up being on antibiotics for about a month. But she did get over the UTI.

Her check ups have been good Ė good physical exams and bloodwork but she had never made any progress in gaining back any of her weight. She had been on the Leukeran for about 3 months and so the IM recommended that she be switched to another chemo (Cytoxan). Although in the same class of drugs, the Cytoxan is a little more potent and it is given every three weeks instead of every other day. She was off the Leukeran for about 2 weeks during which time her appetite improved and she gained a little weight which the IM saw as another indication that the chemo should be changed. She got the first Cytoxan last week (they give it at the clinic rather than me giving it Ė that may change once they are sure the dosage is correct but I donít know). So far she has not had any negative reactions to the Cytoxan. The IM said any negative reactions would probably be in the first three days. Wednesday she needs to have bloodwork done to be sure there isnít any problem with bone marrow/white blood cell suppression.

The IM is very optimistic about the Cytoxan and so am I.

Atty is feeling good Ė she is active and playful. But, I think the loss of Winnie and McGill has been hard on her. Not so much from a best buddy type of thing but rather that there is so much less activity and the house is much emptier. I need to get another dog soon but I worry that it will be difficult for Atty.

Again, thanks for checking on us. Love and hugs back to you.

Carol & Atty Cat

MiniSchnauzerMom
01-16-2010, 10:07 PM
Hi Carol,

How is Ms. Atty Cat doing on the Cytoxan? Glad to hear she gained a little weight and is active and playful. Hope all is still going well.

Louise

Carol G
01-17-2010, 12:21 PM
Hi Louise.

Thanks for checking on Atty. The bloodwork and urinalysis a week after the Cytoxan came back fine. Her appetite was somewhat off the week after she got the Cytoxan and she lost a little weight. Her appetite picked up again the day after she had the blood drawn and has been very good since. I'm hoping she has gained some weight.

She is active and seems to feel good. Wednesday we go back to your home away from home for a recheck and I'm guessing another dose of the Cytoxan. From what I can tell, she does not seem to mind the vet visits too much which is good since we have to go often.

She is still doing okay with the pilling (knock wood). It helps that I only have to give her one pill a day.

How is Munchie and everyone else at your house?

Caro & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

BestBuddy
01-17-2010, 03:41 PM
Good new on Atty. Still sending those good thoughts and I wish I could send some of my new extra Christmas lbs for Atty.

Jenny

bkdice
01-17-2010, 06:13 PM
hello! i've been intermittent on the boards for a while. i lost my boy in july after battling lymphoma. we got 8 months of remission after starting a single drug chemo protocol (doxorubicin for us). i know how difficult it is to battle cancer with your pup, as you have to make all the choices for them, and you hope each one is the right one. sounds like you're doing a stellar job and i hope your atty has many, many happy days ahead with you. :)

best,

bettina

Carol G
01-17-2010, 08:05 PM
Thank you Jenny & Bettina. I appreciate the good thoughts so much.

Jenny, if extra pounds could be shared, we have quite an abundant source here. I am an emotional eater so I've really packed on the weight this year. But, I do appreciate your willingness to share.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

Carol G
01-20-2010, 06:20 PM
We had an appointment with Atty's IM today. She has gained 1/3 of a pound and Dr. Hart felt that she is putting some muscle weight back on. He was very pleased and I am thrilled.

She had a CBC done and got another dose of Cytoxan today. The plan is to come back in 3 weeks for a CBC and another dose of Cytoxan. After her first dose of Cytoxan, her appetite was a little off for a week and so that may happen again.

The past two weeks, her activity level and appetite have been really good. Her latest trick is to get up on the back of the desk and peek at me from behind the monitor.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

Roxee's Dad
01-20-2010, 06:43 PM
Wonderful news Carol :):):)

Squirt's Mom
01-20-2010, 07:05 PM
Hi Carol,

Sounds like things are on the upswing for you and Atty! That is so good to hear and I know you are thrilled!

Hugs,
Leslie

littleone1
01-20-2010, 07:40 PM
Hi Carol,

I'm glad to hear that Atty is doing better. I hope there will be continued improvement.

Carol G
01-20-2010, 08:06 PM
Thank you John, Leslie & Terri. This has been a very, very good day for me and Atty (although she doesn't realize it).

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
01-20-2010, 09:39 PM
Carol,

Atty's great update "warmed the cockles of my heart!" She sounds like a real sweetheart. What fun...monitor peek-a-boo. Be glad she is not like my furballs as it would then be monitor disconnect! :D

Give Ms. Atty some lovin' ear rubs and back scratches from a fellow kitty lover.

Louise

bkdice
01-21-2010, 03:54 PM
thanks for the update on atty! i'm glad things are going well! :) keep up the good fight!

Carol G
01-21-2010, 05:37 PM
Thank you Louise and Bettina. Atty really is a sweetheart. This morning at 6:30 she was working very hard at trying to get me up to give her breakfast. I hope that is a good sign that her appetite will take less of a dip this time.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

gpgscott
01-21-2010, 06:46 PM
Thanks very much Carol for keeping us updated about Atty.

I hope the treatment continues to give her energy and well being.

Scott

Franklin'sMum
01-21-2010, 08:10 PM
Yay! Woo Hoo Carol! So happy for you and Atty :D:D:D:D:D:D. Excellent news :)
Jane and the gang xxx
________
UGGS (http://uggstoreshop.com/)

Carol G
01-22-2010, 11:55 AM
Thank you Scott & Jane. I tell Atty that there are lots of people that care about her -- don't know what she thinks about that but it sure helps me.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

zoesmom
01-22-2010, 03:55 PM
Atta girl, Atty!!! Glad things are looking up for you. Sue

Carol G
01-22-2010, 07:05 PM
Thanks Sue -- she is an atta girl.

Carol & Atty Cat & always Winnie & McGill

Harley PoMMom
01-23-2010, 09:49 AM
I tell Atty that there are lots of people that care about her -- don't know what she thinks about that but it sure helps me.

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

We care so very much about "our" Atty and we also care about and love you too. :) Thank you for keeping us updated about you and Atty, as you know how we worry about our family. :)

Love and hugs,
Lori

Carol G
01-24-2010, 01:42 PM
Thank you Lori. It is so good to be able to "talk" to people that understand. Love and hugs back,

Carol & Atty Cat and always Winnie & McGill

MiniSchnauzerMom
05-07-2010, 09:00 PM
Carol,

Was wondering how Atty is doing?

Louise

Bichonluver3
05-29-2010, 09:59 PM
Hi Carol.
Glad to see Atty is doing well!
Carrol and....Chloe, Sparky & Grover

Carol G
05-29-2010, 11:08 PM
Hi Louise and Carrol,

I just now saw these two posts.

It is good news. Atty is responding very well to the chemo she was switched to at the end of the year. She can go longer now between blood work and I am now giving her a couple of rounds of the chemo (oral med) at home before we go back to the hospital.

She get the chemo (Cytoxan) every three weeks and has very minor side effects -- perhaps a slight decrease in her appetite for a day or two at some point in the week after the chemo.

She has a great appetite and continues to gain weight. She went from a low of 6 lbs to 8 lbs 11 oz the last time I weighed her. Sometimes she gets me up at 5:00 wanting her breakfast!

We pretty much have the pilling down to a routine. She tollerates it very well and I've gotten pretty darned good at it.

We are very fortunate. Thanks so much for checking on us,

Carol & Atty and always Winnie & McGill

Carol G
05-29-2010, 11:16 PM
Forgot to mention that she still gets the pred every day. She gets a special food that she really likes after the pilling plus three teeny tiny balls of low fat cream cheese. So, the pilling is not without it's rewards.

She's been on the pred for probably at least nine months now and I've not (knock wood) seen any side effects.

Carol & Atty

Bichonluver3
05-30-2010, 12:44 AM
Great news! Sounds like you are on the right track. We will be pullin' for ya'. Keep us up to date.
Hugs from the California desert!