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lucygoo
04-27-2009, 07:27 PM
Hello All!
My dog Lucy, 11 1/2 year old shephard/lab mix, has had cushing's for about 2 years now, and been treated with trilostane. She's been pretty stable at 120 mg/day, 60 mg in the morning and 60 mg at night. However, over the past couple months her appetite started decreasing, so we had yet another stim test in February. Vet said her numbers were good, so to keep her at 60 and 60. Now she's hardly eating at all, has lost 20 lbs., (she's about 50 lbs now) is very lethargic, and seems to be in a drugged out state...i.e., standing and staring at a wall for long periods, no energy, depressed, very weak in her hind legs, almost like she's on a sedative.
I decided to stop the trilostane, her last dose was 60 mg. sunday morning....I have two vets now working on this. I'm afraid I'm losing her, and I can't stop crying. The vets told me to keep her off the trilo for a couple days, see if she bounces back. Has anyone else had this happen before? Good ACTH numbers, but clinically symptoms seem to be Addisonian? I'm hoping that's all it is, and she bounces back.
They're also telling me if she doesn't start eating we have to do another sonogram and more blood tests to rule out whatever. I hate to put her through the trauma of that right now. I've taken off from work now because I don't want to leave her....this is exhausting. Please someone tell me there's hope for her....thanks, Gina

ventilate
04-27-2009, 07:46 PM
Hi
Sorry your dog is having a rough time right now. From what you wrote it sounds like your dog has had to much trilo. Sometimes some dogs will begin to require less trilo, out of the blue. Please get the actual numbers and post them. Terms like right in the ball park and right where they need to be is very relatiive so the numbers mean more then the terms do. Did they offer any pred? sometimes pred will help with those issues and very quickly within a couple hrs. Maybe talk to your vet about it, it is what we give when our dogs get to low.
Please do get the actual numbers sometimes vets with only a bit of experience with cushings or trilo will make errors in interpreting the results.

Sharon

forscooter
04-27-2009, 08:23 PM
Hi Gina!

As Sharon mentioned, have you tried giving some prednisone? Prednisone should help "perk" up Lucy if it is low cortisol. And really if it is that, she needs some...and maybe to have her electrolytes checked too.We like numbers only bc we have been told they have been "fine" only to find out they really aren't...so if you have them, it would help to post them.

The only other thing I can think of is the possibility of seizures. Does Lucy respond when she is staring at the wall? Does she respond to your voice?

If you can post her last bloodwork numbers, anything out of the ordinary, if you have them, that would help too!

You'll have lots of help here so please try to get back with some more information and we will be saying prayers for you both in the meantime!!!
Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

frijole
04-27-2009, 09:25 PM
I agree with the others - probably the dog now requires less trilo, maybe none. I would try giving her prednisone to give her some immediate relief. It mimics the cortisol she is probably lacking. Check with your vet first but it should help short term. Hang in there! Kim

lucygoo
04-27-2009, 09:26 PM
Thanks everyone:)

I don't have the actual numbers, but I'll get them tomorrow. As far as seizures, she responds to me, but much slower than usual..sometimes I'll have to snap my fingers iin front of her or touch her and say, "Lucy!", and then she looks at me.
We actually went through something similar to this about a year ago, and she bounced back....I posted in the canine cushings forum but I can't remember what name, but this seems much different. She just seems so old and tired all of a sudden. And she's skin and bones. God, how I miss when she was a voracious pig...and I was complaining about that then!!!
One of my vets mentioned today that sometimes cushing's is a tumour, but Lucy's is pituitary, but she still said it's a progressive disease, and sometimes cushing's dogs just stop eating.
I did mention the prednisone...I actually have an old bottle of hers that they prescribed for her long ago, but it expired in '06....I was tempted to give her one last night, but I didn't. The one vet said they do give prednisone for cushing's dogs, but usually only if, A, there's something else going on, or B, they're in Addisonian.
The other disturbing thing is, I noticed that her water consumption is slowly increasing.....faster than her appetite...which to me means the cushing's is full on...she just doesn't want to eat.
Anyway...as soon as I get the numbers I will post them, and thank you all for responding and your kind thoughts. :)

(I hope this isn't too incoherent...I've been drinking too much wine lately....sorry if I sound like an idiot)

Thanks, Gina

jrepac
04-28-2009, 10:09 AM
Definitely sounds like a lack of cortisol/too low cortisol....prednisone would/should help.....I do question what the "right" level of cortisol is based on the ACTH stim tests.....some folks have dogs w/somewhat/slightly elevated levels that are doing quite well....cortisol actually helps certain conditions

ventilate
04-28-2009, 10:44 AM
Hi;
The way your vet gives pred is only vet specific, most vets have no problems giving a dog that is not feeling well a tiny bit of pred to help them. It is not only given when something else is going on? or in addisions. sometimes when the levels are well controlled and the dog gets stressed the reserve cortisol gets used up and the dog kind of goes addisons, temp as they dont have enough cortisol to keep them feeling good. Sometimes when Nikes legs look weaker or she looks like she is having a bit more trouble standing, I will give her 2.5 or 5 mg of pred, she is 85 lbs so it is just a wiff but it works great she is back to herself in a couple hrs.
As well your vet is correct Cushings both Adrenal and Pituitary is caused by a tiny tumor on the gland. It caused the gland to malfunction but it is a tumor and for the most part they stay tiny. the tumor itself does not cause problems. sometimes they can grow into what is called a macrotumor but it does not happen often. The tumor does not cause cushings, the effect the tumor has on the glands causes Cushings. Cushings is excessive cortisol production. Normally the pit gland regulates the amount of cortisol in the blood if it sees not enough it sends the message to the adrenals to produce more if sees to much it tells the adrenals to slow down. with the tumor on the pit gland it knocks out that regulation so the adrenals dont get any message to stop so they keep producing and they do. The only way we can decrease the amount is to give the meds used to treat so they only secrete a level or cortisol we want which is between 1 and 5 ug/dl. As far as being progressive I have to disagree again by keeping the cortisol in a theraputic level the cushings should not advance as it is the increased cortisol that is "Cushings" not the tumor so it should not progress if the cortisol levels stay controlled. My dog has been treated for over 3 years and still doing as well or better then she was 3 years ago and she is an old dog. For the most part if your dog is not eating, it is probably not due to cushings, but due to something else or to much medication. Sometimes when Nike would sniff her food and walk away, was when her cortisol levels were to low, I held her meds, and gave pred and she would get back to normal. Holding the trilo should help, I really wish your vet would consider pred. IMO it is irrisponsible of your vet not to give you something that may get your dog feeling better now and not let you try it, it should not do any harm, instead of letting the trilo work its way out of your dogs system then feel better in a day or 2 or more. Sorry Now I will get off my high horse..;)
I hope this helps understand things a bit better. Good luck
Sharon

labblab
04-28-2009, 10:51 AM
Gosh, I am so sorry to hear about Lucy's worrisome behavior! Along with everyone else, I will be very interested to hear the results of her ACTH test. And if her electrolytes (simple blood test) have not been checked recently, that would be my next course of action. This is due to the fact that trilostane can cause imbalances in blood chemistries that can create serious problems if undetected and uncorrected.

One other thought comes to my mind, and that is the possibility that Lucy's pituitary tumor may be enlarging and placing pressure on other parts of her brain. This may be what your vets are referring to when they speak about the potential for a progressive decline. Enlargement sufficient to cause neurological problems occurs in only a small percentage of Cushpups, but those problems can consist of the types of things that you are describing: loss of appetite, lethargy, confusion.

Unfortunately, a pituitary tumor can only be visualized by a CT scan or MRI of the head, and both these tests are fairly expensive. If Lucy were to have an enlarging tumor, radiation treatment can offer significant relief for many dogs. But undertaking radiation would be a major decision. So I am hopeful that an expanding tumor is not the cause of Lucy's problems. But I did just want to mention this possibility so that you'll be better prepared if your vets also mention it to you.

Please do get back with us as soon as you find out her test results.

Marianne

Squirt's Mom
04-28-2009, 12:38 PM
Hi Gina,

I am so sorry that Lucy is not feeling well. :(

Along with giving some pred, having her levels checked and her electrolytes checked, I would also have her checked for diabetes. Diabetes can come on rapidly, so even if she has been checked in the last few months, I would have that done again. A cognitive disorder is also a possibility I would want looked into.

I would insist that Lucy be given some pred, even if just one dose administered by the vet! If she perks up, then that is a pretty good indication that the Trilo dosage is too high. If her cortisol is too low, she will bounce back in an hour or so.

Let us know what the vet has to say and please let us know how Lucy is doing.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

forscooter
04-28-2009, 08:15 PM
Hey Gina...

Been thinking of you all day....how is Lucy? And how are you?

Hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

lucygoo
04-28-2009, 09:47 PM
Hi everyone...
I brought Lucy to the vet today, since she still hasn't eaten, even though she's been off trilo since sunday, and the water consumption is way up again, as well as the urination. So they checked her electrolytes, said everything is really good, although she was a little dehydrated, so they gave her fluids, which perked her up, gave her something for her stomach, and sent me home with baby food for her to eat tonight, as she's having a fasting sonogram tomorrow. She licked at the baby food a bit, but still seems really hungry, so I gave her some pieces of chicken breast, and she liked that. That's the disturbing thing....she seems hungry, and wants something to eat, but then doesn't.
The vet I have is very experienced w/cushings and I trust her completely....she saw lucy today in the middle of doing surgeries all day herself...and took the time to call her friend in the endocrinology dpt. at USC about Lucy. (Apparently loss of appetite with dogs on trilo is not all that uncommon, and it's not always because of too low cortisol levels.) She showed me her electryolyte tests today, and explained why prednisone won't help at this point, but I'm so exhausted I can't remember why.

I forgot to get what her last ACTH stim results were in Feb, but they were in line with when I posted on the cushings' forum about a year ago, and everyone said they were great.

She's concerned about the slight cognitive changes as well, so we're taking it one step at a time right now. She wants to get her eating again so we can get her back on trilo and do another stim test. She said this could be as simple as pancreatitis...I hope that's all it is, although she's not vomiting at all, but does have slight diarrhea.

Here we go again....I'm going through all this again when she was first diagnosed. They explained how expensive everything was going to be again today, and asked me what I wanted to do...fortunately I'm able to afford this, but I told them I don't want her to suffer needlessly.....I'm so focused on her now. I guess we'll see what the results of the sonogram are tomorrow and go from there.

Thank you all so much for your kind thoughts and advice. I can't tell you how much it's helped me. I don't have any kids of my own, so she's my baby. I'll keep you posted as soon as I know more after the sonogram....Thanks:) Gina

Squirt's Mom
04-29-2009, 11:16 AM
Hi Gina,

Sounds like your vet is on top of things for Lucy and I am glad to know that. She is correct in that appetite loss seems to be fairly common in Trilo pups, that is what I have seen anyway and it's good to hear a professional feels the same way. :o Maybe a smidgen of my mind is left! :p

Do let us know what you learn from the sonogram and how Lucy is progressing.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Roxee's Dad
04-29-2009, 11:56 AM
Hi Gina,
I am a fairly new Trilo user dad. Roxee had a huge appetite, when the trilo kicked in, her appetite diminished. Then it got to the point that she would turn her nose up at food. Especially if it was bland.

She was still hungry and we figured out she will only eat what smells good to her. So even today, we have to mix soft food with her treats.

Treats are a home made recipe made by Roxee's mom. We got so tired of all the scares and recalls and lousy ingredients that she decided to make her own. I don't know the recipe but it contains organic ground chicken, some veggies and fruits. But it's kind of bland tasting (yeah, I ate one to check it out:p) so for Roxee we mix it with some smelly dog food. Trying to keep weight on her. The other 3 pups will eat just about anything:rolleyes:

Hope all went at the vet and you get this all figured out.
Belly rubs to Lucy.:):)
John (Roxee's Dad)

lucygoo
04-29-2009, 09:23 PM
Hi everyone...

Well, I guess it's good news and bad for Lucy...her ultrasound looked great, they showed me everything, her cortisol is definitely high again, so we have to start her on trilo again...we're starting just 60mg a day now....but she still won't eat! Even chicken! It's like she starts to and then forgets what she's doing and walks away. If I hand feed her she'll eat it to a point. The vet's definitely worried that something's growing in her head. She's sending me to a specialist in West L.A. I don't know what to do at this point. I'm going to go see the specialist, but what if he wants to do an MRI? I hate to subject her to any more of this shit, you know? Her weight is down to 45 lbs now, down from an all time high of almost 80. Sometimes I think she's trying to starve herself to death....and me in the process!

Anyway, thanks to all for listening....and if anyone has any advice on the appetite thing, I'd appreciate it. I've tried every kind of food you can imagine, I think. Take care, Gina

Roxee's Dad
04-29-2009, 09:50 PM
Hi Gina,
I know there is some kind of high protein paste that is available to help with pups that won't eat and keep losing weight. When I had to use it for our Chainsaw (yes, that was our pups name back in the 80's, we called her Chainy for short) it came in a tube like toothpaste. it's really only for temporary use. Sorry I can't remember the name of it but Debbie mentioned it on cc.net so I can't go back and look it up.

Hoping and praying for the best for Lucy.
John (Roxee's Dad)

lucygoo
04-29-2009, 09:58 PM
Hi John...thanks. I love the Chainsaw name. I'll try anything at this point. My fear though is that it's neurologic somehow. It's so disappointing because everything else looks so good on her ultrasound and blood tests...I was almost hoping it was some kind of pancreatitis or something. I'll keep my fingers crossed that she'll snap out of it...thanks again:)

Gina and Lucy...aka Goo

SachiMom
04-29-2009, 11:55 PM
Hi Gina,
I'm sorry that Lucy is have an appetite problem. It can be quite worrisome. I think the "toothpaste" stuff that John was referring to is called NutriCal. Pups usually like it quite well. Another trick you might try is adding a bit of water from water-packed tuna to some chicken & rice. It is kinda smelly and keeps their attention!!! :p

I am not sure where you are located in So Cal, but I just want to pass on a place that I would highly recommend. Southern California Veterinary Referral Group in Irvine. In particular, Dr. Berry. Sachi was completely paralyzed and he performed a miracle that allowed her to walk again. He also treated another member's Rosey, but she had an irreversible genetic brain problem that she was born with and eventually took her. He was recommended by my vet, on whose dog he did surgery and he also has donated numerous hours to rescue groups. http://petsurgery.com/ You don't need a referral, you can make an appointment by yourself, just have copies of all the tests, etc that have been done.

One thing that was particularly helpful in Rosey's case, was that the owner video taped the worrisome behavior and was able to show the doctor, instead of just trying to describe it. An MRI is an expensive venture, so if you can get answers from a video. all the better.

And I fully understand the reluctance of putting Lucy through more tests. Sue, Zoe's mom, opted to not do an MRI. Recently I had opted to not do the MRI for Sachi as she had too many other things going on. It might have given me a definitive answer as to what was going on inside her brain, but it would not have been to her well being. Others have done the MRI and treated the tumor with radiation. So it is a big decision, but a personal one.

However, seeing a specialist is an excellent idea.
Just another thought. Even though the cortisol levels are high, it might be better to hold off on the trilostane until you see a specialist. Lucy might be having a reaction to the trilostane. And if she is only 45 lbs, it could be too much. Zoe weighed considerably more and if I recall, she could barely tolerate 30 mg. Each dog is different. Cortisol does its damage over a period of time, so holding off a bit wouldn't hurt. If trilostane is causing Lucy problems, being off since Sunday is not long enough to recoup. It could have upset her tummy and will take more time. Also, if they find that Lucy needs to switch to Lysodren, you will be ahead of the game by holding off.

Keep us posted.
Healing prayers for Lucy.
~ Mary Ann

Squirt's Mom
04-30-2009, 10:09 AM
Hi Gina,

I don't think I would give the Trilo again until this appetite thing is figured out and she is eating again. Trilo can take away the appetite and she certainly doesn't need that right now. Did your vet say anything about an appetite stimulant for Lucy? Has her mouth/throat been checked to be sure there isn't a problem there causing her not to eat?

The Nutical is great product. It will provide all the nutrients, vitamins and minerals she needs and most pups love the taste. Some other things you might try if you haven't - eggs, cooked or raw; cottage cheese; baked or boiled sweet potatoes; tripe; using the tuna juice or sardine juice over food; fresh grated Parmesan cheese over food; baby food that is just meat and broth; cook everything to a mush and put it in the blender so she doesn't have to chew anything; chicken broth only or broth and gooey rice. If I find any good suggestions, I'll pass them on. Meantime, that Nutrical will help her keep her strength.

Praying for the best,
Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

lucygoo
04-30-2009, 11:32 AM
Hi All....
Thanks so much. I'll get the Nutri-cal today. Hopefully I can just buy it at the pet store. She still won't eat anything this morning. She ate some chicken pieces last night and some of that Natural Balance lamb roll, but only if I hand feed it to her. She won't eat it out of the dish..but this morning...nothing.
I'm in Los Angeles, Los Feliz/Hollywood area (by Griffith Park and the sign, if you're familiar with area) The specialist I was referred to is Dr. Bruyette, in West Los Angeles. My vet told me he's the best in the area, and you can even e-mail him any time you want. Who knows...maybe he's got some tricks up his sleeve.

I agree with you about not giving her the trilo yet, and my vet said only give it to her if she's eating. I don't consider the few pieces she's taking "eating" yet, but I am getting concerned about her water consumption. Had to get up twice last night to let her out.

Thanks everyone for your help,
Gina and Lucy

Roxee's Dad
04-30-2009, 07:58 PM
Hi Gina,
I hope Lucy is or will be doing better soon. I was just checking and trying to find any test results that you may have posted. Maybe I missed it but did you get copies of Lucy's bloodtest and stim test? If yes, it would be great if you could post them.

I'm still trying to learn and absorb as much info as I can and test results are always helpfull.

Thanks, and keeping good thoughts and prayers for you and Lucy.
John (Roxee's Dad)

lucygoo
04-30-2009, 09:12 PM
Hello all...
We'll be going to the specialist tomorrow, so I'm getting her records from Los Feliz (Her regular vet) in the morning to take over there....I'll post as much as I can then, and get copies so I can post later when I have time.

Lucy actually nibbled some ground beef I cooked for her today....not much, but a little...she's so funny. She takes a little bite or two and then looks at me, like.."See? I'm good!" I tried the Nutri-Cal a few times today, and she wants no part of it yet. I'll try it again later. Today I got cottage cheese, sweet potatos, eggs, tuna, fresh parmesan, and the lean ground beef my vet told me to try. She also told me to try pasta...we'll see how that goes. And thanks Leslie for all your suggestions...and thanks to everyone. You guys are the best:)

I'll post as many results as I can tomorrow....

Thanks again,
Gina and Lucy

Roxee's Dad
04-30-2009, 10:31 PM
Wow Lucy,
Dinner is lookin good, what a buffet, maybe I'll come over and have some. :D:D:D:D Will that be red or white wine?
Keeping good thoughts for your Lucy.
John (Roxee's Dad)

SachiMom
04-30-2009, 11:35 PM
Lucy actually nibbled some ground beef I cooked for her today....not much, but a little...she's so funny. She takes a little bite or two and then looks at me, like.."See? I'm good!" I tried the Nutri-Cal a few times today, and she wants no part of it yet. I'll try it again later.
Nibbling is good. It is a start. :D With the NutriCal, you can smear it on their tongue, teeth, paws or whatever and they have to lick it off or swallow it. That is much easier than force feeding with a syringe. It has all the vitamins they need.

I have heard of Dr. Dave Bruyette. I believe he is a friend of one of Sachi's vet. He also was involved in the clinical studies using Anipryl for treating cushings and has done other research and papers on canine cushings. If he is not able to figure out the neurological aspect of Lucy's problem, perhaps they will have another specialist there to consult.

I am praying that you receive some answers and that Lucy's problems are easily resolved.

Will be waiting to hear about your visit.
~Mary Ann

lleigh
05-01-2009, 06:32 AM
Gina,

I've been reading your thread and so much of what you have written sounds all to familiar. Try to take good care of yourself because Lucy needs you to be okay. I sincerely hope you have some positive answers soon.

Lyn

labblab
05-01-2009, 08:14 AM
Here is a recent video interview with Dr. Bruyette in which he discusses trilostane dosing and monitoring. So we all can "meet" him this morning, right along with you and Lucy. :)

http://veterinarymedicine.dvm360.com/vetmed/What-are-your-trilostane-dosing-and-monitoring-rec/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/567360

Marianne

lucygoo
05-01-2009, 12:59 PM
Hi all...wanted to post results of last stim test in Feb. before we have to leave.
Not sure what I'm looking at here so bear w/me.

Cortisol 1 - 1.0 ug/dL

Cortisol 2 - 4.1 ug/dL L

Time 1 - 400

Time 2- 500

Looks like they're pretty normal, as well as all her other blood tests...will see what Dr. Bruyette says today. Hope this helps...
Thanks,
G & L

lucygoo
05-01-2009, 04:08 PM
Hi everyone...

We just got back from Dr. Bruyette. He's pretty sure it's the pituitary tumor growing. My choices are as follows:
1) MRI (to find out what's going on)...$1,500
2) Radiation....$7,500 to 8,000
3) Medication to kill tumor...which works in about 40% of dogs, depending on the tumor.
4) Surgery (depending on where the tumor is, etc.)....Free at Cedars-Sinai Hospital. Dr. Bruyette is involved in some kind of study
5) Palliative care ...to relieve symptoms somewhat of brain swelling, etc. for about 3 months.

I went ahead and made the appointment for MRI on Monday...he said it's perfectly safe and they put her out first...and then at least he'll know where to go from there. I'm still debating it, though. I can always cancel. I already told him I definitely don't want to do radiation, A, because of the cost; and B), it sounds dreadful for the animals

I'm thinking more along the lines of surgery or medication...he said they've been doing the surgery in Europe for a while now...that's the way they treat Cushing's dogs, they just get rid of it. Although I hate putting her through that either, but I just don't want her to decline and suffer. (Not to mention the fact that it wouldn't cost anything.)

Dr. Bruyette said what's happening is the pituitary tumor is pressing on the part of her brain that makes her hungry. And it's just going to keep growing.

What would you guys do? I don't want her to just starve to death. Am I putting her through too much? Should I just let her be and see what happens?

He told me to just stop the trilo all together for now....he said at least the higher cortisol will help with appetitie (maybe) and acts as an anti-inflammatory.

Okay....any feedback is much appreciated!

Thanks,
Gina and Lucy

Wylie's Mom
05-01-2009, 04:33 PM
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with your thread (and I know, I'm kinda just rambling)...

I wonder, what are the chances that this (quote) could be the case? And how could one know this at this point?

Dr. Bruyette said what's happening is the pituitary tumor is pressing on the part of her brain that makes her hungry. And it's just going to keep growing.

The stim test results look great - have they been this good for a while, or is this post level lower than she's ever had? Is it possible that she just needs a higher post to keep her appetite?

I don't know enough about what an MRI will do - does it only help if you are willing to do radiation? I'm guessing it would help if you're up for doing surgery - and if you can have the surgery done for free, I would consider it only if you believe she's strong enough to endure it and there is a good chance that it will work.

I hope others have some good advise for you.

-Susy

labblab
05-01-2009, 04:51 PM
Dear Gina,

Even though I am sorry to hear your news, I'm afraid I am not surprised. When I posted to you earlier about this possibility, I did not tell you that my own Cushpup was lost to me due to what we assume was an enlarging macrotumor. And your description of Lucy's behavior is eerily similar to what we went through with him. :( We did not have the chance to even proceed to an MRI, so we do not know for certain that was the problem. But that is our best guess. He went into an abrupt decline and stopped eating and drinking altogether, so we were forced to make decisions rapidly. For a combination of reasons, we decided not to pursue further diagnostics or treatment.

However, just to let you know, we did have a few members on our original website who chose to pursue radiation treatment with varied success. A couple of dogs did very well; one did not do as well. One downside to even succesful radiation therapy is that, even though the neurological problems resolve, the dogs often ultimately need to resume Cushing's treatment -- the Cushing's itself is not cured.

I will say this to you, however. If you do have the MRI and it turns out that Lucy does have a macrotumor -- if it were me -- I would give serious consideration to finding out more about the surgery option. Would it cure the Cushing's? Depending upon what is involved as far as risks and recuperation, etc., (in other words, how hard it would be on Lucy), you may be very lucky to have it offered to you as an option.

My own experience was that it was quite heartbreaking to watch my boy decline with all the neurological problems -- the confusion and stumbling and loss of appetite. Depending upon the progression, I do not think you will want or be able to allow that to continue for long. And since Lucy is a "big" dog, she already is approaching the last years of ner normal lifespan. So if the surgery itself would not be traumatic for her, it may be worth the gamble (even if it is life-threatening) to give it a try. But you will need to know a lot more about what is involved before making that decision. And we will surely want to know, too!

So please do let us know what you are thinking and what you find out, OK?

Many (((hugs))) to you and Lucy at this very difficult time,
Marianne

Roxee's Dad
05-01-2009, 05:01 PM
Hi Gina,
I cannot offer any advice. But I promise you my thoughts and prayers are with you and Lucy. Give her a big hug from me and my gang.
John (Roxee's Dad)

lucygoo
05-01-2009, 05:34 PM
Hi all....

Thanks, Marianne. I think I've already made the decision to go with the surgery, if it's operable. (That's why we're getting the MRI) I think I'm fortunate to have Dr. Bruyette here, and if it's successful, and she doesn't die during the surgery...which is always a possibility...the Cushings will be cured. She won't have to be subjected to triolstane or fasting ACTH stim tests any more...and even if she only has a few months left, at least it will give her a chance of being comfortable. I can't take watching her not eat...at least she's still drinking.

The reason why they know it's a macrotumor is the symptoms, and how her loss of appetitie came on gradually...He said it happens in a small percentage of cushings dogs, but it does happen...we just happen to be lucky, I guess;)

Thanks for your input everyone. I don't know if I'm making the right decision or not, but I just dont' want this thing to grow anymore and cause her any more suffering.....

AlisonandMia
05-01-2009, 06:14 PM
I'm so sorry to hear that Lucy has a macro - I too had suspected that was likely the case when I read about her symptoms.

It is great to see that they are now doing surgery on macros. I believe the surgery that is done in Europe is really only done when the tumor is a micro tumor or at least the tumor is at an early stage and has not yet enlarged to an extent to cause neuro symptoms - so it looks like this is a slightly different type of surgery. In Europe, they do the surgery when the dog is first diagnosed with Cushing's and it "cures" the disease but I believe that once a dog has an established macro they won't/can't operate. Once the entire pituitary is removed dog however, needs to be on a small maintenance dose of prednisone (because the pituitary is no longer there to "tell" the adrenals to make cortisol) as well as thyroid meds (because the pituitary also tells the thyroid to do its job). I think they can have central diabetes insipidus at least for a while after the surgery too - but I'm not at all sure about that.

The very best of luck with what lies ahead for you and Lucy and do keep us updated (I know you will!;):))

Alison

PS: Do you know if, with this surgery that Lucy will likely be having, they aim to remove the entire pituitary once and for all or if they are just trying to remove the tumor? I'm pretty sure in humans that they try to only remove the tumor and leave the healthy pituitary behind - because removing the pituitary also affects the production of sex hormones which with a dog is not a problem.

lucygoo
05-01-2009, 06:34 PM
Alison....that's what the MRI will tell, size of the tumor, etc. He did say if it's large enough, they will remove the whole pituitary, and she will be on a dose of prednisone and something else for the rest of her life. I'm pretty sure that's what they'll do, especially if it's already pressing on "things," i.e., appetite. But we'll see, I guess.
I just feel I should take advantage of this free surgery..at Cedars, no less! I just think if it were me, I'd want someone to do the same thing for me. I'd much rather die on the table than go through being senile and not have the sense to even eat. And my Goo (Lucy) has so much personality..she even smiles:) I hate to see that go, too.
I trust this guy too. When I said to go ahead and do the MRI, I asked him, "Is that what you would do?" And he said, "Yeah, definitely. At least you'll know." So I guess we'll see on Monday. If it's not operable for whatever reason...we'll do the palliative, I guess, or try the Canadian drug, or both...and see what happens. At this point I'm just crossing my fingers that it's operative. I think it's a good gamble, as Marianne says.

Love to all,
Gina and Lucy

Buffaloe
05-01-2009, 06:50 PM
Hi Gina,

My first dog as an adult was a black lab/german shepherd mix named Buffaloe. He was an unbelievably great dog, off the charts. I think Lucy could have a couple of more good, happy years in her if she gets healthy.

I have to preface this by saying, I am a believer in surgery in many cases. My Dad was a surgeon. I played professional football until I was 33 and have needed several surgeries. And my dog (german shepherd/collie mix) had a very large, malignant adrenal tumor surgically removed in 2006 and is doing great today at 14 1/2. She was doing very poorly before her surgery and the adrenalectomy provided her a complete cure. The surgery was risky but it was a risk we had to take.

Obviously, you will need to find out from the MRI whether Lucy's pituitary tumor is operable. I hope the surgeon is highly skilled and has some good experience in this type of surgery. You have quite a bit of additional information to gather before your difficult decision. It sounds like you are in a similar situation as me before Shiloh's surgery. For me, it was an easy decision. Shiloh was just hanging on, had no quality of life and would have died soon...plus her last few months would have been miserable. I know if Shi would have understood the situation she'd have said, "come on Dad, let's have the surgery." But it was a very difficult, emotional thing for me. The day of her surgery was the toughest day I've gone through in many years.

My surgeon told me that the only people in my situation who should not have the surgery (adrenalectomy) are those who could not handle it if their dog died. His words probably hold true for you as well. You have to be convinced you are doing the right thing. All the best whatever way you proceed.

Ken

lucygoo
05-01-2009, 08:45 PM
Ken, Thank you so much...that's the best success story I've heard! Shilo doing great at 14 1/2:) Lucy's still her old self to a point, but I hope I caught it early enough, and I hope the tumor's even operable. She ate a little tonight, but only if I hand feed her. (My hands now permanently smell of mushy, fishy, dogfood...but what do I care.)
I'm hoping now that the MRI shows that it's operable....I'd hate to see her decline to the point of not even drinking water any more.

Dr. Bruyette said that if I decide to go the surgery route, he'd have a whole packet of materials for me...yikes!....and I'll pass it on to you guys, as well. Maybe it will be beneificial to someone.

Thank you everyone for your support....I'm sure I'll be checking in all night and all weekend long....and Dr. Bruyette said I can e-mail him anytime this weekend if things get weird....he's so cool.

Ciao:)

Lucy and Gina...

SachiMom
05-02-2009, 12:07 AM
Gina,
I'm glad that Lucy had a good visit with Dr Bruyette. And it sounds like you have carefully thought this through. I am also glad then Ken was here to tell you about Shiloh. I was going to write you about her, and tell you his philosophy about surgery. Very sound advice. Will this surgery help my dog and am I willing to risk the surgery and losing my dog in order for her to have a better life. It would be painful to lose one in surgery, but also very painful to see them slowly deteriorate and lose all their self esteem.
You have a long weekend ahead of you, waiting for the MRI on Monday, as do we. It sounds kinda crazy to wish for a turmor so Lucy can have the surgery and be cured. And to think that Lucy will be part of helping future cushings dogs by participating in the surgery. All those that follow can be thankful to her.
Try to get some rest this weekend.
Sending healing thoughts and prayers for Lucy.
~ Mary Ann

acushdogsmom
05-02-2009, 06:07 PM
Hi Gina,

I'm not sure if anyone has given you this link yet, but it might be helpful for you to read if you are considering having the surgery done (removal of the pituitary gland, also known as Hypophysectomy). I wonder if maybe the surgery that Dr. Bruyette is recommending as a possiblity for your dog is the surgical technique recently described by Dr. Todd Axlund?

The full article is on page 1 of the newsletter linked below and it is called:

Axlund’s Pioneering Treatment for Cushing’s Disease
By Todd Axlund, DVM, MS, ACVIM (Neurology)

http://www.metropolitanvet.com/media-minutes/2008-08-MM-Newsletter.pdf

In the article, Hypophysectomy and Dr. Axlund's new technique for performing the surgery is described.


Dr. Axlund at Ohio Veterinary Surgery and Neurology developed a new approach to the pituitary gland during his faculty tenure at Auburn University College of Veterinary Medicine. His research has been published in Veterinary Surgery and presented at national veterinary conferences. Previous surgical approaches access the sphenoid bone through an open mouth. Dr. Axlund instead makes a small paramandibular incision through the ventral neck. Once the mandibular and glossal soft tissues have been retracted and the sphenoid visualized, the bone is carefully removed just ventral to the pituitary gland. The precise nature of this procedure requires exact localization of the gland using either CT or MRI (figures 1-4).

Once the pituitary is reached, the entire hypophysis is removed by manual extirpation or by ultrasonic surgical aspiration. Removal of the tumor alone would be ideal, however, the limited field of view and small size of the mass make it visually indistinct from the normal pituitary. Therefore, the entire gland is removed and the patient is supplemented post-operatively with the necessary hormones. and


Hypophysectomies have been performed as a matter of routine in the Netherlands for a number of years and have offered encouraging results. Forty-three out of the first 52 clinical cases went into clinical remission after hypophysectomy. Of these 43 cases, all but five cases remained in remission for the duration of the study (two years) and required no further treatment for Cushing’s disease. Dr. Axlund’s personal experience with his technique is similar to that of published reports. While this treatment is not curative in every case of pituitary dependant hyperadrenocorticsm, the success rate and relative safety of this procedure make it a viable alternative to standard medical therapy in many cases.

lucygoo
05-02-2009, 08:35 PM
I'm not sure what the surgery is...but thanks for that link. (Sounds like that's probably what it is.) I'll know more on Monday. Of course now I'm having second thoughts on everything. I'm thinking things like....they just want to use her as a test subject, and it won't matter to them if she comes through or not, and what she'll be like if she does survive. She just seems so unhappy today. I couldn't even get her interested in a squirrel in the back yard....although she was very much interested in a cat on our measly little walk..she actually tried to chase it. It just breaks my heart to see her deteriorate so fast. I just want to do the right thing for her.

Thanks for listening everyone....
Gina and Lucy

AlisonandMia
05-02-2009, 08:43 PM
How is the eating going?

It occurred to me that if she is drinking well - even excessively - then maybe you can use this to get some calories into her by giving her "soup" to drink - even that special puppy milk you can buy could be good. Also cultured (must be cultured) buttermilk is meant to be good too.

Hopefully the rising cortisol will kick in and reduce swelling inside her brain and some of the symptoms will ease - did the Dr. mention the possibility of giving her additional pred if it looks like her cortisol isn't rising high enough fast enough (sometimes it can remain a bit suppressed for a while after Trilostane - it varies from dog to dog and even time to time, it seems.)

Alison

Buffaloe
05-02-2009, 09:04 PM
Hi Gina,

I think you just need to hang loose and enjoy the rest of your week-end with sweet Lucy. You have a long ways to go before being in a position of making a decision. You need to find out for sure whether or not Lucy has a macro pituitary tumor and if it's operable. The professionals also would have to think Lucy is a good surgical candidate. Then you would need to meet with the surgeon, find out his/her experience with this type of surgery, success rates, risks, etc. Please don't feel any stress now.

I do think it is wonderful that you may have the option of having the surgery and a complete cure. That's a very good deal. I never understood why they weren't doing these surgeries in the U.S., only in the Netherlands.

I'm glad that Lucy still has a pretty good quality of life. You have ALOT of information to gather before you have to make a decision and there's no big hurry. Hang real loose, have some fun and enjoy Lucy...please give her a kiss and belly rub from Shi and me.

Ken

rhodesian46
05-02-2009, 09:44 PM
I am reading your posts. I do hel that the surgery will work for your boy.

I had a Siberian Husky named Pebbles that was diagnosed with diabetes, hypothyroidism and Cushings. She lived 10 months after the Cushings diagnosis. She was rushed to Texas A & M just screaming the whole 2 hour ride. She was there for 3 days. Refused to eat. Ended up going Addisonian. The screaming was abnormal vocalization. The lack of appetite and her not recognizing me was all caused by a macro tumor. It was pressing on her brain and causing all of this. There wasn't much that could be done. These symptoms came out of nowhere. I put her down as there wasn't anything that we could do. Radiation is hard enough and dangerous for a cush pup let alone diabetes and hypothyroidism, The IMS there said most dogs if caught early will last a few more months.

I am happy to hear that surgery is one of your options. Weren't they doing the surgery in the Netherlands?

4Mikeydog
05-03-2009, 10:39 AM
Hi Gina,

I have been reading your thread and I just want to tell you that our prayers and best wishes are with you and Lucy. Hang in there. It sounds like you may have an option which will allow Lucy to have some quality of life if,
in fact, she is a candidate for this procedure. I think you are a wonderful mother to Lucy and I know you are doing all that you can! I wish you girls the best outcome...Good luck tomorrow.

with love and prayers,
Dorothy and Mikey

lucygoo
05-03-2009, 11:20 AM
Hi everyone...

Thank you so much for your kind thoughts and wishes and very sound advice. I feel better already. I finally found something to give Lucy that she actually seems to relish...meatballs from Palermo's Restaurant..who knew!! I'll be calling them later today to see how many they can make me. Picture that call...."Can you make me about 50 of your meatballs, please."
As for her eating otherwise, she'll eat chicken if I hand feed her, and even some dog food if I had feed her....nothing from the dish. I'll try out the soup and buttermilk idea, tool...thanks Alison.

She seems a bit more back to her old self this morning. Guess we'll see what happens tomorrow....

Much Love,
Gina and Lucy

labblab
05-03-2009, 12:19 PM
YAY, Gina!!

I'm so glad that Lucy is eating her meatballs! And I just wanted to stop by to wish you much luck tomorrow with the MRI. Of course, first of all, that all goes well and it is not stressful for Lucy. And secondly, that if it IS a macrotumor -- that it will be operable.

Please let us know as soon as you are able!
Fingers and paws crossed at our house for you and Lucy,
Marianne (forever Barkis and Peg's and Luna's mom)

Roxee's Dad
05-03-2009, 01:43 PM
Hi Gina,
Glad to hear that Lucy is eating. Meatballs sounds good. (make sure there aren't any onions in them) I think most dogs are italian, they all seem to like italian food:)

My best wishes to you and Gina for the testing. Hope all goes well. Keeping good thoughts and prayers that it's something easy to manage or fix.

John (Roxee's Dad)

ladysmom06
05-03-2009, 04:01 PM
Hi Gina,

I have not posted to you before - just finished reading about Lucy. Glad to hear that Lucy is eating the meatballs. I want to wish you good luck tomorrow with the MRI. Keeping the two of you in my thoughts and prayers. Hugs to you and Lucy.

forscooter
05-03-2009, 04:08 PM
Hi Gina,

Just stopping back...I have been watching your thread about Lucy. I am sending lots of well wishes for the MRI tomorrow and will be anxious to hear about the surgery. I do hope she can have it and it works!!!
All my best!
Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

MiniSchnauzerMom
05-03-2009, 04:27 PM
Hi Gina,

I would also like to join in and offer my support for you and well-wishes for Lucy tomorrow.

Will be thinking positive thoughts for both you and Lucy and awaiting your update.

Louise

rhodesian46
05-03-2009, 05:25 PM
Wishing you the best on the MRI tomorrow.

Just be careful as to how much fat your baby is getting. Cush pups are prone too pancreatitis . It is advised to keep them on a low fat diet. What about 99%fat free turkey meatballs?

SachiMom
05-04-2009, 01:03 AM
Gina,

Just re-upping all my healing thoughts and prayers for Lucy.
Will be anxious to hear how the MRI went. Praying for the best.

Tons of Hugs
~ Mary Ann

lucygoo
05-04-2009, 10:44 AM
Hi all...

Sorry to say that I was up all night with Lucy last night. She had severe diarrhea and cramping....she really seemed like she was in distress. I gave her an imodium about 2 a.m.....didn't really do much. I don't know if it scared me so much because I'm more focused on her now, but I've never seen her like that. I literally laid on the floor with her all night. Tried e-mailing Dr. B at 3 a.m.....got my e-mail kicked back....

To make a long story short, I ended up bringing her to his office at 6 a.m., which happens to be open all night for emergencies too, so now they're giving her fluids and checking her out .

I feel kind of stupid now for bringing her in now, but it seemed like she was in such pain with the cramps, panting like crazy, even in the car on the way over she was doing that back arching thing.

The worst part was when we got there. She wouldn't get out of the car she was so scared. I had to get the guy to come down and he brought a gurney, we put her on that, and I just cried like an idiot, while she looked at me with those eyes.

Sorry for venting guys, but I just am about ready to collapse.

Thanks, Gina

Roxee's Dad
05-04-2009, 12:48 PM
Hi Gina,
I am so sorry that Lucy is going thru this. I hope they find what is causing the problem and it is a simple fix. Kinda went thru the same thing with our Roxee and Rozee a few weeks ago, luckily it was fixed with a shot of B12 and antibiotics. Hope it is that easy on Lucy.

It's okay to vent, we are here for you.

Keeping good thoughts and prayers for you and Lucy.

Catch yourself a nap if you can.
John (Roxee's Dad)

lucygoo
05-04-2009, 01:11 PM
Thanks John....I just heard from Dr. Bruyette...he said she's fine. Everything checked out fine, her chest x-ray was fine, and he's going ahead with the MRI...I'll hear from him later today with what it shows and a "plan."
I swear to God...she probably sensed something was up today and got all stressed out. I just couldn't take watching her spasm like that and not being able to help her. I thought it was neurological at first.
At least they'll put her out for the MRI. (Wish someone would put ME out) Now I have THAT to worry about all day.
Oh, well....pacing and biting nails...I'll keep you posted...
And thanks again for all the heart-felt wishes..

Gina and Lucy...

Buffaloe
05-04-2009, 02:22 PM
Hi Gina,

I am SO glad to hear that Lucy is doing fine now. Thank you for letting us know. I'm sure she is in really good hands now. I'll be waiting anxiously to hear the results of the MRI and the subsequent game plan. I hope you can at least close your eyes and get a little rest. Shi's got her paws crossed for Lucy.

Ken

lucygoo
05-04-2009, 08:58 PM
Hi all....We just got back, and Lucy has a very large tumor...I've forgotten the size already, but he basically said she has about 3 months left if we do nothing. I thought surgery would be out of the question because her tumor is so large, but he said they're doing it with an endoscope, brand new surgery, and he doesn't see any reason why they can't do it.

He's meeting with the surgeon on Wed and will let me know for sure, but Dr. Bruyette said he'd be very very surprised if the surgeon said it was inoperable. He also said Lucy's the perfect candidate, because she's otherwise healthy, and a bigger dog, so it's good for their study...which is for both dogs and humans.

She was very happy to see me, of course, but she scared me on the ride home...she kept trying to stand up and was whining a little. I thought it was neurologic...almost like she was having those spasms again...but when we got home she was so happy, she ran around like a puppy for quite some time, came in, drank about 10 gallons of water, and now she's passed out already.

So I guess it's good news....I can't watch her deteriorate any more...and I'm seeing subtle changes it seems like by the day now. My poor Goo. I just hope none of these changes are permanent in her brain. What am I talking about....I just hope she survives the surgery.

Thanks again everyone....You all are the best and have kept me going through this awful, awful time...

I'll keep you posted...

Much love,
Gina and Lucy Goo

frijole
05-04-2009, 09:08 PM
Gina,

While the news isn't great - you have one heck of a doctor as your advisor and you had already done your homework and had the options before discovering the tumor. Plus you know you'll have a whole host of cush moms and dads rooting for you and Goo.

You should be very proud of yourself - you are obviously a fantastic mom to her. Give her a big hug from me and mine. Sending hugs and prayers.

Kim

SachiMom
05-04-2009, 11:30 PM
Gina,
You've had a tough 24 hours. At least Lucy is resting comfortably now and you have some answers. I hope that you can get a little rest too.

Knowing how large the tumor is and how long she has, really lays out your options. I truly hope that the surgeon will accept her for the surgery, as this seems her best option. Dr. B may think she has three months without surgery, but those three months could be horrible for her and pure hell for you. Just imagine how she is now, and make it progressively worse and worse until you can't handle it anymore and then have to make the decision to let her go. Under ordinary circumstances this is hard and we second guess ourselves with "what if's". Here the option of a surgery can cure her. Granted surgery carries its own risks, but this risks are far outweighed by the huge benefit she can achieve.

Healing thoughts and prayers for Lucy, and that she will soon have a surgical date.
~ Mary Ann

Buffaloe
05-05-2009, 11:23 AM
Hi Gina,

I'm glad the MRI came out so clearly and you now know exactly what you are dealing with. Mary Ann expressed herself extremely well and my thoughts are identical to hers. If Dr. Bruyette and your surgeon say everything is a green light for surgery, I think it is the only way to go. It will be very difficult for you but if it is similar to an adrenalectomy, it very well may provide a complete cure for Lucy. She could live for a long, long time as a totally happy and healthy dog.

Please keep in mind that Lucy is your dog and you are a huge part of this equation. Ask all of the questions you have. I certainly think you should have the opportunity to meet with Lucy's surgeon and I think that will be very meaningful for you. For me, it was a wonderful experience consulting with both of Shiloh's board certified surgeons prior to her surgery. I was convinced that I had the "dream team." You are a courageous woman. All the best to you and Lucy.

Ken

lucygoo
05-05-2009, 01:59 PM
Thanks everyone..

I agree that surgery is my only option at this point. I just hope she can hold out that long. Just went and got her prednisone 20mg and tramadol for pain. Does anyone know how soon the prednisone should start to work? Don't ask me why we didn't get this yesterday. She just seems really uncomfortable today. Hope it kicks in soon....
will keep you posted....

Gina and Lucy

Squirt's Mom
05-05-2009, 02:09 PM
Hi Gina,

I am so impressed with you and how you are handling this with Lucy. You have made the only real decision that you could have for your baby's welfare. It sounds like you have a great team for surgery and, of course, as Kim said, you have "a whole host of cush moms and dads rooting for you and Goo."

Hang in there and keep up the good work! Lucy is so very lucky to have you on her side.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

lucygoo
05-05-2009, 10:11 PM
It's me being a pain in the butt again....Just a question. Has anyone else had experience with MRI and how long it takes for the anesthesia to wear off? I'm getting really worried about Lucy...she's still out like a light for most of today, has not eaten anything except a couple of bites of lamb stew dog food...finally!....and a few licks of chicken broth....and she keeps hunching her back, like in a spasm, and dragging her hind legs when she first rises. She has moments of clarity where she's perky and runs around, but then zonks out again.
I e-mailed Dr. Bruyette and he said it's probably a combo of the anesthesia and the tumor, and to let him know if it doesn't get any better.

I'm just wondering if anyone has experience with the kind of anesthesia they do for MRIs and what it does. I gave her 20mg prednisone and a tramadol this morning. was waiting for the prednisone to really kick in and give her an appetite, but so far just a couple of bites.

This waiting is awful....but this site is so helpful and comforting.

Thanks, G and L

AlisonandMia
05-05-2009, 11:42 PM
There is one member active here (that I know of) who's dog has had an MRI (of his back) - Barney's Mom. I'll PM her to make sure she looks in on your thread. I think the anesthesia they use for MRI's would be a little different from that which is used for surgery etc. because of the magnetic fields involved and the type of monitoring/supporting equipment that can be used.


The tramadol could be contributing to Lucy's grogginess (on top of the anesthetic and the tumor) - it is somewhat sedating and can also cause some tummy upset too! It seems individual dogs need/tolerate different size doses with some being really zonked out on a pretty moderate dose - how much does Lucy weigh and what dose of tramadol is she on? I've never used tramadol myself but a lot of other people here have.

The pred she is on is being used to reduce inflammation/swelling and when it is being used for that reason it has been my experience that it seems to kick in to the point that you can see a definite improvement about 10-12 hours after the first dose and (as long as you continue with it) things seem to improve further over the next 3 days or so. My kids have needed oral pred for asthma and I have (although we (me and the treating vet) didn't know it at the time) used it for a dog with symptoms caused by a brain tumor - in both asthma and with the brain tumor there was a definite visible improvement at around the 12 hour mark with further improvement over the next few days.

Hope this helps - and I'll go PM Cheryl.

Alison

Barney's Mom
05-06-2009, 01:53 AM
Hi Gina,
I just read your story from start to finish. Wow, you and Lucy have been through a lot the past few days!

My dog Barney had a couple of MRI's. Unfortunately it is really hard to tell how long the anesthesia will hang around for, as it depends on what they used an every Doc has their own preferences.

I know for Barney they used Propofol. It doesn't hang around long at all. I am an ICU nurse and we use it at work to sedate people who are on ventilators. They can be completely awake within a few minutes. (2 or 3 minutes they are stirring, within 10 minutes they are completely awake)
Some anesthetics need to be "reversed" (another medication is given that completely stops the action of the anesthesia) and alot of times they may use a narcotic in conjunction with a sedative.
Too many variables to even venture a guess, but if I had to guess, I would say propofol.

But.......
I am wondering if what you are seeing is the effects of the anesthesia or if it is just the effects of the macrotumor combined with Lucy having a really stressful day. If my dog is at the vets all day he comes home absolutely exhausted. Plus Lucy was sick before she went there with diarrhea as well as the neuro symptoms from the tumor. (I would almost bet that is what you are seeing with Lucy's back)
The effects of anesthesia are usually lethargy and respiratory depression. She is up and moving and breathing ok, but just sleepy, I would give it more time. If she was unarousable with slow shallow breathing then I would worry.
Also......
Careful what you are feeding Lucy. I gave BArney pancreatitis by feeding him fatty foods when trying to gets meds in him.
I know its hard to see them not eating, but if there is a reason she isn't eating, trying too hard to feed her could make things worse.

Its so hard to see them like this :(

Hope things are getting better as the pred helps with the neuro signs.

PS.........
I think you are a wonderful mom and you and Lucy are in my prayers.
Try to get some sleep!

Cheryl

SachiMom
05-06-2009, 02:15 AM
Hi Gina,
Sorry it's so late. The pred may be being used to ease the swelling so it could take a little while before you see any neurological improvements. It may also increase her appetite slightly, but more than likely you will definitely notice an increase in water consumption, resulting in.....yep increased peeing. But that is a small price if it is helping. I hope that she is doing a little better by now. Keep the faith.

Fingers & toes crossed that Dr B has good news for you tomorrow.

Continued healing thoughts and prayers for Lucy.

~ Mary Ann

Truffa's Mom
05-06-2009, 02:17 AM
Nothing to add, just that I hope that you and Lucy have a good night sleep.

I think Cheryl is giving you great guiding points. The hydration I think is most important than the feeding. Although Tramadol is the best option for our cushings dogs for pain management it makes them quite groogy and weak on their hind legs. My dog was on Tramadol for 3-4 days (can't remember well) and I had to help her move and stand up while on it.

Will be praying for you.

Marcela & The Choco Labs

lucygoo
05-06-2009, 04:54 AM
Alison, Cheryl, Mary Ann and Marcela....thank you so much! I was getting worried that the prednisone wasn't working. I'll just be patient. And you're right about the food, too....I think that's what happened with the diarrhea...I was so thrilled she was eating, I didn't care what it was.

Thanks for the thoughts and prayers, everyone. You guys are like my lifeline at this point:)

Gina and Lucy

Roxee's Dad
05-06-2009, 09:46 AM
Hi Gina,

Just dropping in to let you know we are pulling for you and your Lucygoo. Be positive and strong for her, I really feel that they can sense our stress. Keeping good thoughts and prayers.

John (Roxee's Dad)

Barney's Mom
05-06-2009, 09:47 AM
I hope you got some rest. It is so hard to just "wait" for things to get better when you see your pet suffering.

Hope Lucy's feeling better today.


Cheryl

labblab
05-06-2009, 10:51 AM
Dear Gina,

Just wanted you to know that I've also been following all that you and Lucy have been going through these last couple of days. Everyone has given you such great advice and support. I can only "second" what has already been said. I do so hope that the surgery remains a viable option for Lucy. But whatever happens, we'll be here for you both!!!

With (((hugs))) and hopeful wishes,
Marianne

4Mikeydog
05-06-2009, 11:20 AM
Hi Gina,

I hope Lucy is feeling better today and that you are too!!! I know this is a very difficult time for you girls and we are truly hoping you get the surgical option. You are remarkable and doing all you can...and that is what you need to remember. Hang in there and keep up the fabulous and supportive job you are doing.

with best wishes and prayers,
Dorothy and Mikey

lucygoo
05-06-2009, 11:20 AM
Thanks again everyone...Lucy seems much better this morning:)...she even had a few bites of food...voluntarily! And I was able to get some sleep last night, thanks to you guys. I felt like I didn't have to keep one eye open, making sure she was still breathing kind of thing. I think I'm going to skip the tramadol today...see how she does. I would think the prednisone would be enough.

Will keep you posted...

Gina and Lucy

Squirt's Mom
05-06-2009, 11:22 AM
Hi Gina,

Sending you and Goo prayers, healing thoughts, and hugs,
Leslie and the girls

ventilate
05-06-2009, 04:35 PM
Gina
Nike weighs about 85 lbs and her vet told me I can give her 125 mg ( 2.5 tabs) 2 times per day for pain, she has had bilat ACL repair and is old so has arthritis. I had just been giving her 1 tab, 2 times per day. one day she looked like she was hurting so I gave her 100 mg, only 2 tabs and later that morning I was getting ready to take her to the vets, she would hardly respond to me, difficult for me to wake her up, her gait was wobbly then I remember I gave her the 100 mg of tramadol and she was stoned. No more, now she will only get 100 mg when we are going to bed and she looks like she is hurting, and 1.5 during the day.
The pred is an antiinflamatory so will take down swelling but will do nothing for pain, I would talk to the vet about cutting back on the dose of the tramadol but not sure if I would stop it entirely, would hate to see your dog in pain.
Sharon

lucygoo
05-06-2009, 09:01 PM
Just heard from Dr. Bruyette. He said all the surgeons agreed to do the surgery.....Yah!!!! I've been an absolute weirdo all day waiting to hear. They've scheduled it for Wednesday, so a week from today. I have to go in on Monday and meet the surgeons and sign the forms, blah, blah, blah. He told me they've done this surgery before on humans, and 30 cadaver dogs. Lucy will be the first live dog. So I have a week to hang in there with my Goo.

I was thanking Dr. Bruyette, and telling him how fortunate I felt to live in Los Angeles at this time, where they happen to be doing this, and he said he was thinking the same thing; like the planets were in alignment or something. He said he had just finished drafting the letter that he was sending out to vets around the country about this, (looking for 10-15 dogs), and in walks me with the perfect candidate. I also asked him if he thought I was doing the right thing. He said even taking money out of the picture, radiation wouldn't work because of the size of her tumor, not to mention the side effects.

So their goal is to get all the tumor out...he said even if they only get 80 percent out it's great. (which also made me feel better, that they're not just going to aggressively go after everything no matter what)

I'm still going to be on here constantly nagging you guys for advice, because it's a long road to Wednesday, so hang in there with me;)....

Thanks so much....

Love, Gina and Lucy

frijole
05-06-2009, 09:06 PM
Gina,

This is such fantastic news. I too believe in fate. We will all be learning from this and thank you for sharing it with us. I will do the only thing I can for you and that is say lots of prayers and send warm vibes from my home to yours.

The best,
Kim

4Mikeydog
05-06-2009, 10:46 PM
Hi Gina,

I'm so happy to hear that the surgery is an option for Lucy (and You )..We will be anxiously waiting and praying for the two of you!!! You are definitely doing the right thing.

with love and prayers...
Dorothy and Mikey

SachiMom
05-06-2009, 11:55 PM
Gina,
I am sure you will be sleeping better tonight.
The planets aligned and God was smiling!!!
Give Lucy big hugs.
Continued healing thoughts and prayers for Lucy.
~ Mary Ann

Truffa's Mom
05-07-2009, 05:10 AM
Glad to hear that Lucy is doing better. Hope you and her are having a better sleep night tonight. We will be with you before, during and after next wednesday.

Marcela & the Choco Labs

labblab
05-07-2009, 10:25 AM
WOW!!!! Oh Gina, your news brings tears to my eyes, because I know how grateful (and also scared) I would have felt had this option been available for my Barkis. I cannot tell you how much I hope this works PERFECTLY for your LucyGoo.

I will be holding you both in my heart, and anxiously awaiting next Wednesday!
Marianne

lucygoo
05-07-2009, 11:45 AM
Hi all...me again checking in. I know I sound like a complete crazy person right now, but do you think it's normal for Lucy to be sleeping most of the time? I haven't given her a tramadol today, but she's like in a dazed state most of the time. Her spasms (or whatever they are) seem to have decreased in frequency and intensity, but she seems more confused and listless than ever. I keep telling myself that she just needs to rest, and to calm down. She doesn't seem like she's in pain, but should I give her a tramadol anyway?

I'm just hoping she holds out for next wednesday.

Thanks for helping....
Gina and Lucy

lucygoo
05-07-2009, 12:49 PM
Better yet...maybe I should take a tramadol. She perked up and ate some chicken:)
Next I'm going to install a Goo-cam so you guys can see what's happening 24 hours a day! Just kidding!:)
I guess her symptoms are going to come and go...I just hate the sort of fugue states she goes into, if you know what I mean. I've also taken off work, so I'm probably too hyper focused on her..(good thing I'm self-employed, but I'm going to have to go back soon, but I hate to leave her now.)

Thanks for listening as always...

Gina and Lucy

Patricia ann Wh
05-07-2009, 12:50 PM
Hi,

Just happened to read your post.
Last year my dog was on tramadol, ( I was only giving him one a day, the vet said to give him 3 !) and by the 5th or 6th day we would be on our walk and he would just stand there - looking around - like he didn't know where he was, he had never ever acted like that before. When we ran into people he knew he would put his head way down and shy away, it was really unlike any behavoir I had ever seen. My next door neighbor is a pharmacist and when I asked him about it he said tramadol is a heavy opiad , and he wasn't surprised that my dog acted like that. It did help his pain - but really changed his behavior for the worst. Since then I've only given it to him on 2 occasions, and only 1/2 pill - they're 50 mgs. My dog is 90 lbs.
That was my experience anyway.
Wishing you luck.:)

Patti

labblab
05-07-2009, 01:32 PM
Yes, like Patti, I would think the tramadol would make Lucy act even more dazed and out of it. But at this stage, if you have questions about whether or not to give any kind of medication, I think I'd ask Dr. B. You don't want to do anything that might interfere with her readiness as a surgery patient next Wednesday, and he's the one who will know best as to what is OK for her.

Marianne

lucygoo
05-07-2009, 01:37 PM
Thanks Patti and Marianne.
You're right...and the tramadol must stay in the system a long time, since she didn't get one yesterday, but got 2 the day before (50mg.) She's also on metronidazole for diarrhea, so I don't know if that's doing anything...I doubt it.

xoxo..Gina and Lucy

MiniSchnauzerMom
05-07-2009, 01:41 PM
Hi Gina,

I was getting ready to respond to your post and saw that Marianne just recommended exactly what I was going to tell you.....when in doubt, verify with the vet! :D

I'm excited to read that Lucy has "the go" from the surgeons for her procedure next Wednesday. Will be keeping you and Lucy in my prayers.

Louise

Squirt's Mom
05-07-2009, 02:47 PM
Hi Gina,

I am so excited for you and Goo to have this opportunity for a real cure. I am very impressed with your courage and strength! Like Marinanne, this brings tears to my eyes, too, not only for those who missed all the new technology and knowledge but for the hope this brings to so many of us now and those to come here in the US. You and LucyGoo are now officially among my heroes.

Hugs and prayers,
Leslie and the girls

Barney's Mom
05-07-2009, 04:54 PM
That's awesome news Gina!
And you only have 5 and 1/2 days to completely drive yourself mad watching every move that Lucy makes :)

Guys.........I think she is feeling us out for a LucyGoo webcam!

I am so happy for you and Lucy!

Cheryl

lucygoo
05-07-2009, 10:14 PM
Cheryl...well it certainly would make life easier for me;)
I'm definitely seeing a lessening of the spasms, but seems an increase in her out of it states (eyes rolling back in her head while head is up) I'm wondering if she needs more prednisone. She's on 20mg a day. At least she's eating a little. I'll ask Dr B tomorrow.

Thanks for all the support, guys....I absolutely could not do any of this without all of you...

xoxo
Gina and Lucy

lucygoo
05-08-2009, 05:13 PM
Just checking to see if this works...tried to post a lame picture of Lucy from the camera on my phone....I'm so computer retarded.

Squirt's Mom
05-08-2009, 05:18 PM
:d:d:d:d lmao :d:d:d:d

lucygoo
05-08-2009, 05:20 PM
Sorry guys....just took me while to figure out the picture process...Ignore these posts!:)

lucygoo
05-08-2009, 05:25 PM
Wow...that was exhausting...but I did it:)
Not a very clear picture, but a picture nonetheless...

lucygoo
05-08-2009, 07:28 PM
Good day today:) Lucy's eating a little more, and almost back to her good ol' self, just panting and wiped out. (Figures it's suddenly HOT here now) Just trying to enjoy every minute with her that I can now, and not trying to project what's going to happen...

Hope all is well with you all!

G & L

frijole
05-08-2009, 07:30 PM
Love the photo. I continue to think of you guys and send best wishes. Hang in there. We are holding your hand from afar. God bless. Kim

Harley PoMMom
05-08-2009, 08:19 PM
Hi Gina,

Love the pic. too. I know getting that pic. up there can be frustrating, I know it was for me :eek::confused: but you did it :) Good Job :D I'm sure next Wednesday we all we be sending good thoughts, prayers, wishes and anything else we can think of, your way. Have a fabulous weekend with your lovely Lucy, and I hope you are having better weather there than what I am having here~rain~rain~past 7 days rain.

Take care, Harley and Lori

rhodesian46
05-09-2009, 09:49 AM
Gosh,
I wish that Dr B had been doing this surgery 6 months ago. Pebbles would of been a great candidate. Your dog bring back memerories of what happened to Pebbles. You have a great vet. Everything will turn out great.

lucygoo
05-09-2009, 12:16 PM
Marianne...I'm so sorry that happened to Pebbles.
Is that her in the picture?

lucygoo
05-11-2009, 08:43 PM
Hi everyone....Just wanted to give you a quick update.
I met with one surgeon today and most of the people that are going to be involved Wednesday except the human surgeon from Cedars who's actually going to be doing this. This is the surgery they were doing in the Netherlands, but the technology is better now where they can do it on a large tumor like Lucy has. Apparently Cedars-Sinai is expert at this surgery in humans, transsphenoidal surgery. They go in through the mouth and drill a small incision in the soft palate and remove the tumor (takes about 2 hours)

Of course there are all sorts of risks, and now I have to read over these scary consent forms, but I feel like I don't have a choice anymore. I just hate for her to have to be traumatized. They said she should be able to go home Friday or Saturday. They also take care of all care afterwards except medication, which involves a CT scan before surgery, another MRI after, and periodic follow-up MRIs.

When I asked what time I should call and check on Wednesday, they told me "We'll call you. Just stay at home, bottle of wine, try to relax." Yeah, right.

Anyway, hope all is well with everyone. I'm going to be a nervous wreck, but what else is new. My biggest fear is that she survives the surgery, but something happens and she gets worse....and I'll have put her through that. However, I feel like if I didn't do this, I'd always regret not at least giving her a chance.

Now I've got to read over these awful forms...

Gina and Lucy

P.S. Lucy gets a little better every day, although still seems a bit confused going through doorways, etc.

frijole
05-11-2009, 08:56 PM
Gina,

You are a wonderful mom and don't ever forget that. Enjoy your evening with Lucy and give her a big hug from me. Hugs to you too.

Kim

SachiMom
05-11-2009, 11:59 PM
However, I feel like if I didn't do this, I'd always regret not at least giving her a chance.
Hang on to that thought regardless of what happens.
I know that you won't get much sleep tonight, have to soak in all of Lucy to hold you over for a few days. It really is amazing what they can do now.
I will be keeping the prayer line open for her.
Keep positive healing thoughts.
(((HUGS))) to you and Lucy
~Mary Ann

Carol G
05-12-2009, 12:49 AM
Gina,

If I were in your shoes, I would be making the same decision you have. You and Lucy are in my thoughts and prayers.

Carol, Winnie (always), McGill & Atty Cat

Buffaloe
05-12-2009, 01:28 AM
Gina,

You are definitely doing the right thing for Lucy. You are both in my thoughts and prayers. I honestly, totally believe Lucy is going to make it through the surgery just fine, then handle the post-op and move on to a complete recovery. That's what I believe is going to happen.

Wednesday is going to be a tough one for you. You might want to plan to do something, a long hike, bike ride, whatever you enjoy to help pass a little of the time. But, when you get the call that Lucy is awake and made it through the surgery just fine....total elation.

We are all pulling for Lucy more than 110%, lots of prayers and positive thoughts are headed your way.

Ken

MiniSchnauzerMom
05-12-2009, 05:39 AM
Gina,

Just wanted you to know that I'm here and thinking of you and Lucy also. Yes, the surgery, the risks and those pesky required consent forms are scary and I'd definitely be nervous too. On a positive note this is a wonderful, life-saving opportunity for Lucy and I would be making the same choice you have made if it was my Munchie.

Maybe you'll feel like logging on and "talking" on Wednesday to pass the time?? We're here for hand holding!

Thinking positive thoughts for Lucy and keeping you both in my prayers.

Louise

Roxee's Dad
05-12-2009, 08:49 AM
Hi Gina,
Keeping positive thoughts and prayers for both you and Lucy. All fingers and 16 paws crossed.

Get Lucy's recovery bed and comfy spot ready, make sure it's comfy for you too.

John (Roxee's Dad)

lucygoo
05-12-2009, 11:10 AM
Thank you all so very, very much. I can't tell you how much it helps.

The good news about this surgery is that after this trial, if successful, they're going to offer it as a service, at least here in Los Angeles. (I can't even imagine though what it would cost.)
Dr. Bruyette was also saying that when they did their study in the Netherlands, the dogs that didn't make it post-op didn't have good control of their cushings, and had multiple other problems. Lucy's always had good control with the trilostane (thank God). I just worry about the size of her tumor...I saw the MRI:eek:

Take care everyone....and I'm sure I'll be on here pestering you all nonstop today and tomorrow:)

Harley PoMMom
05-12-2009, 11:16 AM
Hi Gina,

Just wanted to let you know that you and Lucy are in my thoughts today and I'll be saying special prayers for you both tonight.

Like Louise said in her post, if you feel like logging in and "talking" tom. I'll for sure be here too.

Sending positive thoughts and prayers your way.

labblab
05-12-2009, 02:33 PM
Dear Gina,

I, too, will be counting the hours tomorrow until we know that Lucy is safe. If it helps at all, I would have made exactly the same decision as you have made. You are giving Lucy her best possible chance for recovery and a normal life. Given the size of her tumor, both of those things would otherwise soon be lost to her.

I know you will physically hold her close today, and no matter what happens, you will be holding her in your heart tomorrow. And we will be here to hold you both in our thoughts and prayers.

Many (((hugs))),
Marianne

acushdogsmom
05-12-2009, 11:42 PM
Sending you and Lucy hugs tonight and thinking positive thoughts for you, too.

And you can post here as much as you want -- it's not pestering at all. :)

(((hugs)))

BestBuddy
05-12-2009, 11:54 PM
Gina,
It's not pestering if it's invited.:D
I have you and Lucy in my thoughts and prayers. Good luck.
Jenny

SachiMom
05-13-2009, 12:07 AM
Gina,

Just remember you are doing the best, not only for Lucy and yourself, but for all the dogs that she is going to help in the future.

Many hugs for Lucy & you.

Keeping the healing thoughts and prayers flowing.

~ Mary Ann

frijole
05-13-2009, 07:12 AM
Thinking of you and yours again today. I too send warm thoughts and prayers your way. Kim

Squirt's Mom
05-13-2009, 10:59 AM
Hi Gina,

You and LucyGoo have been on my mind every day since I learned of her upcoming surgery and certainly no less today, the big day. Lucy and you are surrounded by hope and prayers. The operating room is quite crowded since we are all there in spirit plus the souls of all the cush pups that are at the Bridge are there as well, lending her strength and encouragement.

Please, don't hesitate to post at anytime today. It doesn't even have to make sense; just know we are here and willing to do anything we can to make this day pass easier for you.

There aren't enough words to express my gratitude to you and Lucy, or my admiration for your courage, or the hope this gives me and many others. You and Lucy are pioneers in a brave new world, helping to open a door of hope and promise for all PDH pups in the US.

Remember, many hands are here reaching out for yours, many arms ready to hold you, many shoulders ready to help you carry the burden of today's wait.

Hugs, prayers, and positive thoughts,
Leslie and the girls

lucygoo
05-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Hi everyone...thank you so much. I really can feel all of the support for Lucy today.
Don't know anything yet. I just got home, and opening a bottle of wine (like they told me to) and waiting for the phone call from Dr. B around 4. He said he'd call me then no matter what, just so I'm not going crazy. They might get delayed or whatever. They let me stay with her in the quiet room until around 1 p.m., when they took her to do the CT scan. She was heavily sedated and feeling good, but she knew I was there, and I tried not to cry because I didn't want to get her upset, nor did I want any negative vibes going on. So I held it together pretty good.

So now we wait....I'll try and post again as soon as I hear anything.

Much love,
Gina and Lucy

Harley PoMMom
05-13-2009, 05:49 PM
Hi Gina,

So glad you posted. I have been checking all day for ya. We are all right here with you waiting anxiously too.

I'm glad when you were with her you were able to hold it together, they can sense when you are upset or nervous about something, you're such a good Mom.

I'll keep checking back and sending positive thoughts and prayers.

Squirt's Mom
05-13-2009, 06:08 PM
Hanging with you, Gina!

acushdogsmom
05-13-2009, 06:40 PM
Thank you for the update, Gina! I've been popping in and out of here all day, hoping to hear from you.

Did they really tell you to go home and open a bottle of wine? :D Good on them, if they did and good for you for following their wise advice.

Fingers and everything else that can be crossed are crossed way up here in Canada for you and your Lucy.

(((hugs))) to you again, too!

lucygoo
05-13-2009, 07:39 PM
Update!
Just heard from Dr. B, finally. He said it looks like they got "a lot" of the tumor out. :confused: (What does that mean??) She's doing well, doing well under anesthesia, and he'll call me back in another hour and a half, two hours:eek::eek:
Could this be any more drawn out and dramatic??:eek:

Anyway, will let you all know when I hear again, but at least she made it through the first phase (brain swelling from the initial incision and change in pressure)

Harley PoMMom
05-13-2009, 07:51 PM
Gina, I think that's a good sign that Dr. B called.


Could this be any more drawn out and dramatic??

I hope someone is there with you while you are waiting, but if not, WE ALL ARE.

Thanks so much for the updates, as you can see I am glued to this computer just waiting to hear your updates about Lucy.

Squirt's Mom
05-13-2009, 08:00 PM
Hi Gina,

Thanks for letting us know how Lucy is doing so far. What an ordeal for you both! I am popping in and out to see how you girls are doing and always hoping for the best.

Hugs and prayers continue to fly your way!
Leslie and the girls

acushdogsmom
05-13-2009, 08:47 PM
Again, thanks for the update. :)

Maybe they didn't get all of the tumour out, but if he said they got "a lot" of it out, then they very likely got enough of it to make a very positive difference in Lucy's quality of life and to stop the neuro-type symptoms she was having, so that sounds good to me!

I'm sure Dr. B will be keeping you updated and hopefully he can soon give you more information and answer some of the questions you want to ask him now.

(((hugs))) again! :)

P.S. Do you have any idea when they'll let you visit Lucy in recovery?

labblab
05-13-2009, 09:08 PM
Hi Gina,

I've been away for a few hours, and was so anxious to find out how things have been going. I am so relieved to hear that Lucy has been tolerating the surgery well! I'm still keeping you and Lucy in my thoughts and my heart, and I'll be watching for further reports from you.

Continuing (((hugs))),
Marianne

gpgscott
05-13-2009, 09:17 PM
Gina,

I am so sorry, I don't think I have posted you before tonight.

I would not place a lot of importance that the entire tumor was not removed, frequently when most of a tumor is removed the remaining tissue does not survive as a result of the trama of the surgery.

We are all praying and wishing for the best for your Lucygoo.

Awaiting the next update.

Scott

Roxee's Dad
05-13-2009, 09:21 PM
Hi Gina,
Still here keeping fingers all 16 paws no make that 20 paws crossed, the cat just joined in.
John (Roxee's Dad)

lucygoo
05-13-2009, 09:40 PM
Hey guys..
Dr. B called me again, and told me Lucy was awake, in ICU, doing well, all neurological checks are fine..i.e. eyes, reflexes, etc., and he'll call me back around 9 p.m.

So at least she's done and okay for now...whew!!!!:):)
I can't thank you all enough!! I really believe you all had something to do with it. I called her regular vet to fill her in today, and she told me that my other regular vet called from Pennsylvania asking about Lucy (Seems the whole country is pulling for my Goo.) I always knew she was extra special.

I'll try and post back after Dr. B calls around 9ish.

Much love,
Gina and Lucy

Roxee's Dad
05-13-2009, 09:44 PM
Hi Gina,

I big happy doggy dance for you and Lucygoo.:):):):):):)

I know she will continue to recover nicely. Very, very happy for you and Lucy.

John (Roxee's Dad)

Harley PoMMom
05-13-2009, 09:52 PM
GREAT NEWS GINA,

I am soooo happy for you and Lucy. :D:D:D

Lucy is extra special just like her Mom :D

And like John said, I'm sure Lucy will recover nicely, especially with the fine care she has had so far and the special love you have for her.

Buffaloe
05-13-2009, 09:55 PM
Hi Gina,

Big time congratulations, everything sounds really good! Thank you for keeping us up to date on how Lucy is doing. I am so happy for you.

Ken

Carol G
05-13-2009, 10:21 PM
What great news! I'm so happy for you and Lucy. Hope you can relax a little now.

Carol, Winnie (always), McGill and Atty Cat

Roxee's Dad
05-13-2009, 10:22 PM
Hi Gina,
Just had to come back to let you know that Lucy has made my day. Since your last update, I've had a smile on my face and my wife asked me what was up. Explained what you and Lucy went tru and accomplished and put a smile on her face too. :D

John (Roxee's Dad)

StarDeb55
05-13-2009, 10:33 PM
Gina, I have not posted to you previously, but have been closely following Lucy's story. I'm thrilled for both of you that it appears that the surgery has gone so well. Hopefully, Lucy will be the "trailblazer" for future pups with Pit tumors & macroadenomas, so that surgery will become a routine treatment for this dratted disease.

Me & my boys, Harley & Chewy, are pulling for Lucy to have a rapid & great recovery!

Debbie

BestBuddy
05-13-2009, 10:39 PM
Gina,
Such great news. It's not just the country (USA) 'cos we have all had fingers and paws crossed here too so it is "worldwide" well wishes and good tboughts.
Jenny

frijole
05-13-2009, 10:59 PM
Yeah! I was out of town and just got home and had to check in. You made my day complete. I am so happy for you. You are paving the way here in the US and I am so glad you found us and were willing to share the experience. Hugs, Kim

Squirt's Mom
05-13-2009, 11:00 PM
OH Gina! That is great news! :D I am so glad the operation went as well as it did and I'm leaning towards Scott's theory on the tumor remnant, if indeed there is one.

Get some rest while you can; once she is home, you will be quite busy I imagine! ;)

Sending hugs and healing restful thoughts to you and LucyGoo,
Leslie and the girls

Truffa's Mom
05-13-2009, 11:37 PM
What great news!!!! I bet you must be exhausted. I just got home and I had to check on you gals.

What a relief. Hope you are trying to relax and catching up with your sleep. GOO way to go girl. Will check on you tomorrow.

Marcela & The Choco Labs

lulusmom
05-13-2009, 11:40 PM
WOOHOO!!!! I've been on pins and needles all day waiting to hear the news. Just got home from work and was elated to see your post that the surgery went well. OMG, I am so excited...I can hardly stand it. I'm all smiles. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D I am sure that you are hugely relieved and want Lucy back home just as soon as possible....so do we!

My thoughts and prayers are staying with you guys until Lucy is back on her feet.

Glynda

P.S. I'm hoping that we are all hearing about history in the making and just think, Lucy will have been a huge part of it.

lucygoo
05-14-2009, 01:27 AM
Hi everyone....
You guys are the absolute best:) Thank you so much. Heard from the hospital, Lucy's doing fine. They said they'll call me ASAP if anything changes. I'll be able to visit her tomorrow evening, it looks like. I just am grateful she got through the surgery...now the post-op worries begin....agggh

Love,
Gina & Lucy

forscooter
05-14-2009, 06:32 AM
Gina,

I didn't get to post yesterday but you bet I was right here watching and waiting and tapping my toes and fingers! I was, and still am, so happy to hear how well things went for Lucy!!! This is wonderful, terrific news!!! :D:D:D And as Jenny said, there is a party going on around the world for you both!
Sending lots of hugs for healing (for both of you)!!!!
Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

Harley PoMMom
05-14-2009, 06:50 AM
Hi Gina,

Just checking in to see if there were updates.

Lucy will be soooo happy to see you tonight :D and I know you will be so relieved and happy to see her pretty face, give her kisses from all of us.

4Mikeydog
05-14-2009, 09:47 AM
Hi Gina,

I have been thinking about you and Lucy continuously..I'm soooo happy to hear your wonderful news :D:D:D You and Lucy are an amazing team and we are so grateful and thankful that you have this amazing opportunity to sustain your wonderful and loving relationship, as well as pioneer a new age of hope to so many!!! We are wishing you the best and praying for Lucy's continued and speedy recovery :):):)

with much love,
Dorothy and Mikey

Squirt's Mom
05-14-2009, 09:54 AM
Hey Gina,

Couldn't wait to see how Lucy did overnite and I am thrilled to read your latest report. :D I can't wait to read that she is home!

I hope you were able to get a little sleep tho I know how difficult that is when your baby is in the hospital. LucyGoo is in the best possible hands for now and they will take good care of her. While she's in their expert care, don't forget to take extra special care of yourself, Gina.

Prayers and hugs continuing,
Leslie and the girls

lucygoo
05-14-2009, 11:54 AM
Hi everyone...Just heard from Dr. B this morning, and Lucy did well overnight. She's able to stand, but she's disoriented. The surgeons think that's because the tumor is gone and it changed the pressure in her head. Said it would last a couple days. All neuro checks are fine so far, and she's even able to swallow. He said she won't go to drink water, but when he puts it in her mouth she's able to swallow (another thing they were worried about from the way they had her mouth open and incision)
Also, he said they got all the tumor out that they could see. He said there might be some microscopic pieces around the artery, but they removed everything else:):)
He basically said "So far so good."
So I'll be visiting her later this morning/afternoon, and I'll update accordingly.

Take care

Much Love,
Gina and Lucy

Squirt's Mom
05-14-2009, 12:20 PM
Hi Gina,

This sounds good to me! :D I can imagine her jaw and mouth will be quite sore after the surgery so don't worry too much about that just yet, she is swallowing and that is great!

Enjoy your visit; I know Goo will be happy to see you again!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

labblab
05-14-2009, 01:17 PM
Oh Gina, I think this all such hopeful news!!!!!! I know it will be hard for you to see her acting somewhat disoriented, but the fact that the neuro checks and swallowing ability is OK -- I think that is super good news. So the rest will just take time.

When you see Lucy, PLEASE give her some special hugs from all her aunts and uncles who are rooting for her!!!!!

Marianne

Buffaloe
05-14-2009, 02:04 PM
Gina,

Everything sounds great, absolutely as good as could be hoped for. It is going to be wonderful for you to go and visit her. You're still in my prayers and thoughts. Shi's got her paws crossed for you.

Ken

MiniSchnauzerMom
05-14-2009, 02:23 PM
Gina,

So happy that Lucy's surgery went well. Everything is sounding very positive. As Marianne said, give your sweet baby some extra hugs and lovin' from all of us and here's a big bunch of cyber hugs for you!!! ((()))

Will be watching for your update.

Louise

lucygoo
05-14-2009, 09:19 PM
Hi all...
Just got back from visiting my Goo. It was incredibly difficult, to say the least. She knew I was there right away, struggled to get up, then put her head back and started this awful crying, howling, agony noise. It was the worst thing I've ever heard. They said they think it's because she's frustrated, wants to get out of there, can't. She did drink water out of a dish for me, (hadn't done that before) and ate a little out of my hand. There's a lot of stuff going on right now. I just got in the cage with her, laid down and talked and sang to her. (I didn't cry) She calmed down a little, but was constantly whimpering. It's also hard knowing what's normal and what's not, since this is the first surgery they've ever done like this, let alone on a tumor that size. They told me the operating room was packed yesterday, and they were all crying afterwards, and then later when she responded to her name. Dr. B also told me that visually she's fine, although she was acting like a blind person when I was there. I guess at this point it's hard to tell how much of the weirdness is from the anesthesia/narcotics, and how much from the brain. In humans they keep you in a coma for about a week. They're going to slowly decrease the narcotics to see how she responds. I swear, I wanted to just move in with her in that cage (was seriously considering asking them.)

I just want to thank each and every one of you for your endless support and kind words. This is very cathartic for me, and it's also my journal of what's been happening in this most difficult time. I just hope and pray to God that she comes out of this, because what's happening right now is not pretty.

Take care everyone,

Love, Gina and Lucy Goo

frijole
05-14-2009, 09:32 PM
Hi Gina,

You are awesome. Crawling in that cage and being the strong mom... it is so obvious how much Lucy is loved. No doubt she gathered strength from your visit and will continue to improve as the drugs wear off.

I am sure Ken will have wise words as he has experience and knowledge in the surgical aspect of treatment.

Meanwhile the rest of us will continue to pray and offer you our love, support and to hold your hand. Sleep well tonight knowing you are truly an inspiration to many.

Kim

Buffaloe
05-14-2009, 09:33 PM
Gina,

Of course I don't know what is normal at this stage of the game after a surgery like this but I think it sounds fine. She just had a big old nasty thing removed from next to her brain, pressing against it I'm sure. That has to be traumatic. The fact that they keep humans in a coma for a week tells you alot. I really do totally expect her to recover very well. Try not to expect too much too soon. It's totally different, but after Shi's adrenalectomy she didn't even act like she recognized me for three days. It was like she was in a daze and she was happy to stay at the hospital.

I think it is good for you to go visit Lucy quite a bit. I think it will be helpful for both of you. After Shi's surgery, I couldn't stay away...I drove down there 2-3 times every day, sometimes pretty late at night. I just had to see her and make sure she knew I was there. It's probably going to take some time, very possibly alot more time than Shi's recovery. Keep the faith and keep praying.

Ken

Roxee's Dad
05-14-2009, 09:34 PM
Hi Gina,
My heart goes out to you and for you. I / we are right along with you in hoping and praying.

Keeping positive thoughts that she will be up and around, playing and wagging her tail before we know it.

Give her hugs from me and my gang.

PS: You should ask if you could bunk with her, they may have said yes, I've seen it before.

John (Roxee's Dad)

gpgscott
05-14-2009, 09:47 PM
Bless you both.

You are both scared and reaching out to each other.

She sounds strong and it is clear you are.

Hugs and prayers.

Scott

Squirt's Mom
05-14-2009, 09:55 PM
Hey Gina,

Ok, I can relax a bit more now that I know the visit went as well as it did. Like the others have said, don't expect too much too soon. There has got to be some swelling in her brain right now and when that goes down, you will start to see more of the real LucyGoo. The fact that she recognized you and reacted as she did tells me there is much good going on up there.

When Squirt had her legs operated on, her doc said I could spend the nite with her if I wanted so you might ask if you can. Just don't be upset if they say no; sometimes it is best for the pup to rest and keep the BP down, and sometimes it can be disturbing for us moms and dads to see what all goes on at times. But if Lucy is calmer with you around and they will let you stay some, it might be a good thing and help her heal faster.

You are an amazing lady, Gina. I think Cedar Sinai should built a monument to you and Lucy. What the two of you have done is remarkable to say the least.

Hang in there and keep us in the loop. Now get some sleep, girl!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

forscooter
05-14-2009, 10:03 PM
Gina,

I've been thinking of you all day...I wanted to comment on the whimpering just to throw my support behind what everyone else has said. Bailey sometimes needs a very short course of anesthesia just to get his nails cut. He had surgery back in the fall. I can tell you that every time he gets it, he whimpers and cries and moans for about 24 hours, sometimes longer, afterwards. Besides the narcotics and the swelling Lucy may have...the anesthesia alone can make Bailey act this way. It takes time to clear their system, and it can do weird things to both animals and people. I know how distressing it is to listen to, and there seems like there is not one thing you can do to comfort them, but I really do believe a big part of it is just the drug and not that they are uncomfortable. I think it is much harder on us to hear it!

So many good thoughts are coming your way still...and hopefully tomorrow will be a little better than today....and the next day and the next...

Hang in there...you have an army of people here who are with you both...
Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

AlisonandMia
05-14-2009, 10:06 PM
I've been thinking of you and Lucy - and all her wonderful Drs too - and my daughter has been following the story too.

I'd imagine that her brain has had quite a shock (too say the least) and that may have made her pretty emotional - but I think it is a great sign that she recognized and responded to you even if her reaction was a bit sort of wild.

Fingers crossed for her continued recovery and thinking of you both at this difficult time.

Alison

PS:

You could ask if it's ok for you to leave a dirty t-shirt or pillow case of yours with her - this seems to comfort dogs like having a photo of a loved one does for us. Most vets allow and even encourage this.

lucygoo
05-15-2009, 11:35 AM
Hi everyone....Just got the morning update on Lucy.

She's doing very well...even went for a walk:eek::) Is eating a little bit, drinking, and isn't doing the rolling head back thing as much. Dr. B said if things continue, I might be able to take her home Sat or Sun, but he's not sure. I'm so glad to hear it, because I couldn't get the vision of her yesterday out of my head last night, so didn't sleep very well.

I'll post again after my visit with her today.
Thanks to all for giving me a little peace of mind last night with your input:)

Hugs,
Gina and Lucy

Squirt's Mom
05-15-2009, 11:38 AM
Hi Gina,

More good news!!! :D:D Wonderful news!! :D:D Sounds like she is really coming along! I know you will be glad to have her home again and I truly hope that happens as soon as her docs think it will.

Enjoy your visit today and don't forget to pass on all the hugs and love from us!

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

Harley PoMMom
05-15-2009, 01:06 PM
Great, Great News, Gina,

I am so happy for you and Lucy. You are both troopers and trail-blazers for what yous have been through and are doing.


Enjoy your visit today and don't forget to pass on all the hugs and love from us! I second this quote from Leslie.

MiniSchnauzerMom
05-15-2009, 04:38 PM
Wonderful, wonderful! This is amazing news and Lucy is very resilient. Will be watching for your update later today.

Louise

gpgscott
05-15-2009, 04:40 PM
Tremendous good news Gina,

Keep on a mendin Lucy.

Scott

lucygoo
05-15-2009, 05:25 PM
Hi guys..
Another upsetting day. She's up and walking, but wants to continuously walk in circles around the perimeter of the room with her head up. Seems like she's blind, too. Didn't seem to recognize me or even know I was there. I'm hoping this is all part of the healing process, but I can't help thinking she'll never be the same. I hate to think of her blind. She watches TV...I mean literally...especially anything with animals on.
I took her outside for a walk today...didn't seem to know what to do on the grass. I know I have to give her a chance, and I can tell she's trying really hard, bless her heart (she walks kind of like a drunk blind person at this point)
I guess we'll just take it one day at a time at this point.

I've posted some pictures of her in the album if anyone's interested. I love her so much, and now I'm wondering if I did the right thing.

Thank you all so much,
Gina and Lucy

Roxee's Dad
05-15-2009, 05:35 PM
Hi Gina,
I am so keeping good and positive thoughts and prayers for you and Lucygoo. She will get better, she will get better......

Putting positive thoughts out to the universe.
John (Roxee's Dad)

Squirt's Mom
05-15-2009, 05:44 PM
Hey Gina,

Honey, don't lose hope and for crying out loud, don't start blaming yourself for anything or second guessing yourself. What hope did Lucy have without this surgery? Not much, right? You have given her the best chance she has at a normal life, the very best chance! In fact, the only real chance. If I had been in your shoes, I would have made the very same decision for Squirt. I would have been just as terrified as you were about it, just as upset now, and thinking the same things you are today. But I would have jumped at the chance for her anyway.

When a human has a serious operation, often the second and third days are the worst. The anesthesia is wearing off, the pain is unbelievable, everything is confusing and irritating and strange. I saw this happen repeatedly with my dad and the nurses confirmed that it is not uncommon at all. I know dogs are not humans and that they heal differently, but the principle still remains. It just takes time, more for some than others. And what LucyGoo has been through is certainly MAJOR!

There may be some permanent changes for Lucy, but I still have great hope that she will come home soon.

Gina, I can only imagine what you are going through mentally and emotionally. We are here if you need to talk, vent, whatever. Don't sit there and let your mind run away with you. If yours is like mine, that can be dangerous! :p I am behind you 100%+, we all are.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

frijole
05-15-2009, 07:11 PM
Gina,

Remember they keep humans in a coma after the surgery so it's understanble she isn't herself yet... I know it has to be hard - very hard and you did the best thing you could for her - you gave her a chance to live. She is still recovering from the operation, anethesia etc. so please don't lose hope.

My cush dog is over 15 yrs old and has lost most of her hearing and most of her eyesight... but she is a very happy little thing. So even if eyesight is lost there are lots of wonderful stories about how great dogs get along.

We will all continue our prayers and are here so feel free to vent - we have big shoulders. Take care of yourself too.

Hugs
Kim

lucygoo
05-15-2009, 07:13 PM
Thanks Leslie and John.....I was thinking the "blindness" might be temporary (I Hope!!!) Because Dr. B said her vision was okay, and she reacted to his hand, so I was thinking maybe the optic nerve was being pressed on or something. Sometimes she acts like she can see, so it's really hard to tell. Most of the time not, though. If she doesn't seem any better by tomorrow I'm calling him...figures he went to San Francisco until Tues, but I have his cell....
Does anyone have any experience in neurologic symptoms and what they mean? I've been furiously googling trying to find out anything. Unfortunately this is as much a learning experience for the doctors as it is for me. There's simply nothing to compare it to. I wish I could get ahold of someone who had something to do with this surgery in the Netherlands. Surely there's got to be some kind of blow by blow description of what happens to the dogs in recovery somewhere...I'm just going mental right now.

Thanks everyone for listening....

Gina and Lucy

BestBuddy
05-15-2009, 07:29 PM
Gina,
I feel for you. Even if there was a blow by blow description of what happens you know that all dogs are different and it might make you worry more.
The body is an amazing thing and when it's stresses (like surgery) certain non critical things shut down so that the body can concentrate on healing. (I know very technical :p) There has to be a certain amount of swelling around the surgery site and it will be days (weeks??) before you will know if there are any consequences. We all want Lucy to be better now but guess what....father (or mother) time always has other ideas.
Thoughts and prayers still coming your way.
Jenny

labblab
05-15-2009, 07:49 PM
Gina, I am so sorry that Lucy seems so unlike herself right now. I can only imagine how hard it is for you to see her like this, and to wonder whether she can see or recognize you. But I want to "second" and "third" and "fourth" what the others are saying -- that there is still every reason to have hope. The assault to her brain has been immense, and it will likely just take some time for things to settle down for her.

But please, please, please don't second-guess yourself. I very seldom feel as though it is my place to directly advise people to choose a specific course of action. But with Lucy's surgery, I truly had no doubt as to the choice I would have made myself, and the choice that I thought was the best for Lucy. From my own experience, Gina, the problems that you are seeing in Lucy at the moment are the same problems you would have seen if the tumor had continued to grow. But in that heartbreaking scenario, there would be no hope at all, and the problems would only worsen and worsen. Right now, we all have every reason to think that the problems are temporary, and that there is great hope for improvement!!!!

So please do not despair! You and Lucy have so many people on your side. And we're all praying for a cure for your sweet girl.

Many, many (((hugs))),
Marianne

lucygoo
05-15-2009, 08:25 PM
Marianne, Jenny and everybody,
Thank you so much. It's just been a very difficult, emotional day. I know I have to be patient.
Dr. B's assistant just called me (she's the greatest), and told me that Lucy's doing well, eating now and drinking, they took her off IV meds, now she's on oral. (They were able to give her her thyroid while I was there because she ate) She's still walking in circles, but they're hoping once the swelling goes down, that will too. And Marianne, I think you're right...I was thinking there's probably even more swelling now than there ever was, so maybe that's what it is. The size of her tumor was 2.2 something centimeters. Normal is 5 millimeters.
We discussed the vision, and she said she's definitely somewhat visual, they just don't know how much or if it's permanent or not. They're going to have the opthalmologist check her out.
My poor baby.

Thank you all so very, very much for helping me through this...

Gina and Lucy

lucygoo
05-15-2009, 08:30 PM
Kim, thank you too for reminding me about the coma thing. I keep forgetting things. I know....I"M the one that needs the neurosurgery:o

4Mikeydog
05-15-2009, 08:39 PM
Gina,

Hang in there...Post operative edema is a very traumatic event after neurosurgery and it will take time to access Lucy's condition. These are crucial hours and improvement takes time.
The trauma of the surgery had to be substantial initially but that doesn't mean that what you are seeing now is in any way permanent . Be good to yourself....you are doing all that you can for Lucy
and we admire your courage in pursuing a cure for her!
Hang in there...You have everyone's love, prayers, and support. We wish you peace and a successful recovery for Lucy..

with love, prayers, and positive thoughts..
Dorothy and Mikey

forscooter
05-15-2009, 08:53 PM
Gina,

I can't really add to what the others have already said....the swelling and healing....the circling is something you see when the tumor is progressing and growing...and with the tumor almost all gone, I would think this is the swelling causing this.

Try and see the positives as you can....I know it's hard!!! I am a basket case with my furballs. But she is eating, she is drinking, she is progressing to oral meds, she is walking....and yes, you had no choice other than this. What was the quality of life she had before? And you did this bc you researched and you also followed your heart....therefore, your decision, well it is IMPOSSIBLE for it to be wrong!

We are sending our GO LUCY chant from here!!! Lots of hugs....Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

AlisonandMia
05-15-2009, 09:07 PM
I've finally got a chance to reply - I've been running around all morning (it's about 11 am here).

I agree with what all the others have said. Especially Marianne where she says that these are the things you would have been seeing as the tumor enlarged and that at least now there is very real hope of improvement over time. So please don't beat yourself up - in opting for this surgery you've given her hope whereas there was none before.

It does sound like Lucy is improving steadily despite some oddnesses that surely must the swelling. I know with head injuries the worst period is the two or three days or so after the injury rather than immediately after and this is mainly because of swelling. The same thing applies to just about all injuries - as an example I fell and bruised my leg really severely last Friday and it was at its worst and ugliest in many ways on Sunday and then began to improve steadily after that - slowly at first and then rapidly from about Wednesday on. I know my bruised thigh is pretty trivial in comparison but I suspect Lucy's "bruising" will be following a similar course.

One thing that might help you is (if you aren't doing it already:p:)) to write down any questions and concerns you have as they come up so you remember to talk to the Drs about everything that is bothering you about Lucy when they are available. If you are anything like me you have your biggest worries and biggest questions at 3.00am when there isn't away to get good answers.

Good luck and best wishes from me too.

Alison

Harley PoMMom
05-15-2009, 09:23 PM
Gina,

When my other Pom. had to have one of his teeth pulled last month, it took him two days to get back to his old self. This was just a tooth extraction, nothing compared to what sweet Lucy has amazingly pulled through.

The fact that she is eating and drinking, I believe, is a very good sign of a path to recovery, which may take some time.


Be good to yourself....you are doing all that you can for Lucy
and we admire your courage in pursuing a cure for her!
MOST DEFINETLY

Buffaloe
05-15-2009, 09:37 PM
Gina,

I just think Lucy went through a very traumatic event and it's going to take a while to recover. I expect her to get a little bit better every day. Lucy is certainly a fighter. I guess you're just going to have to try to be patient and you definitely have to keep the faith. I believe she is going to make a very good recovery but it's going to take a while.

Ken

lucygoo
05-15-2009, 09:48 PM
Update...Just heard from the vet Dr. B put in charge while he's out. She had the ophthalmologist check Lucy and they think she's blind. Don't know if it's permanent or not, and he thinks she's got some sort of vision in her left eye. I'm hoping against hope that it's temporary. I keep telling myself it's the swelling and it will go away. Lucy is such a visual dog. Her favorite thing is to watch TV with me and look out the window at the cats. I'm crying as I write this.

When I asked if she's still circling, she said she is, and then added...."Maybe it's just her getting used to being blind." I'm calling Dr. B after my visit with her tomorrow, and hopefully when I can form a cohesive sentence without crying, and get to the bottom of this.

This is all so incredibly difficult and frustrating, and I thank God I found this place and all of you to share it with.

xoxo...Gina and Lucy

gpgscott
05-15-2009, 09:55 PM
Gina,

I really don't think anyone can know at the moment.

The vision thing is difficult with a dog to start with as they are mostly driven by their sense of smell.

Please let us know.

Scott

AlisonandMia
05-15-2009, 10:00 PM
I really think there is every reason to hope that her blindness is temporary - the swelling should be at its worst about now so things should start to gradually improve. Remember that some people become temporarily blind either on one side or even both with migraines and then are totally ok once the attack passes - so brain-based blindness is not necessarily irreversible at all.

I hope that you can talk with Dr. B real soon!

Keep us posted.

Alison

Harley PoMMom
05-15-2009, 10:07 PM
Gina,


We are all here and we are all thinking positive.

You go right ahead and vent, it doesn't have to make sense, I just wish there was more we could do for you right now.

SachiMom
05-15-2009, 10:17 PM
She's up and walking, but wants to continuously walk in circles around the perimeter of the room with her head up.
Keep thinking the positives. She is up and walking and her head is up, not hung down. Those are both very good signs.


Seems like she's blind, too. Didn't seem to recognize me or even know I was there. I'm hoping this is all part of the healing process, but I can't help thinking she'll never be the same. I hate to think of her blind. She watches TV...I mean literally...especially anything with animals on.
It could be just the drugs are making it hard for her to focus. I don't think the doctors would have told you that she is visually okay, if in fact she is blind. Not to say that it didn't happen, but I'm sure they would let you know if they knew she was blind. It could be temporary. And Gina, she may not be the same, it is too soon to tell. But you still have her and love her and will guide her through this.


I took her outside for a walk today...didn't seem to know what to do on the grass. I know I have to give her a chance, and I can tell she's trying really hard, bless her heart (she walks kind of like a drunk blind person at this point)
I guess we'll just take it one day at a time at this point.
Just imagine somebody messing with your brain and then pumping you full of narcotics. You would be pretty messed up and confused too. One day, one hour. It will take time.


I've posted some pictures of her in the album if anyone's interested. I love her so much, and now I'm wondering if I did the right thing.
She is a sweetheart and you know you did the right thing. Just think back a week ago, and you will not question your decision.

Continuing healing thoughts and prayers for Lucy.
Hugs ~ Mary Ann

lucygoo
05-16-2009, 11:53 AM
Hi all....
Got the morning update from the vet , and she told me Lucy seems more alert than yesterday, not walking in circles as much, but still doesn't have any vision. I'm just going to continue to believe that it's the swelling and she'll be able to see again. I know I have to accept the possibility that she won't be able to, and I should be happy for everything else, but honestly, this has been an extremely difficult thing to watch. On Monday they told me she would probably go home Friday or Saturday....what the hell were they thinking!??
I was finally able to sleep last night by knocking myself out with some Unisom, and will be visiting her this afternoon with Dr. B's assistant, Renee. She's going in on her day off to check on Lucy, so I want to be there when she's there.

Sorry for this post, guys....I'm just completely venting and getting out my frustrations right now. Thank you so much for putting up with me....

I'll post another update after my visit today and after I speack with Dr. B.


Gina and Lucy

Harley PoMMom
05-16-2009, 12:48 PM
Gina,

Here's hoping you have a nice visit with Lucy.

And as for putting up with you...Oh Honey,will wouldn't have it any other way, That's what we're here for. Go ahead and vent all you what..we are here and we are listening and praying and thinking positive thoughts for you and Lucy.

I'm glad you were able to get some sleep, you need that.

Give yourself and Lucy some hugs from us and remember you are not alone, we all are here for you and Lucy.

Squirt's Mom
05-16-2009, 01:01 PM
Hi Gina,

Lori said it all and very well at that!

I am glad to hear that Lucy seems to be more aware today and the circling is less. Another step forward for our girl! :D YEAH!!

Dr B's assistant sounds like a really kind person to go check on Lucy on her day off. Very impressive!

It's good you got some sleep even if it was chemically induced. :D If that is what it takes, then do it. You need your rest so your mind will be fresh, your spirit renewed and your body strong. Just don't mix the wine with the sleep aid! :p

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

lucygoo
05-16-2009, 06:22 PM
Hi All.....Lucy's doing better today it seems. She wagged her tail at me for the first time:D She still seems blind, but we think she has vision up close, because she reacts to shiny objects, light, and your hand in front of her eyes. All she wants to do is walk now, even though it exhausts her. She's struggling...it's almost like she knows she has to practice walking and she's determined to get it right. She's off IV meds and fluids now. I'm waiting to hear from Dr. B to see what the game plan is now....I'll post another update then.
Hope all is well with everyone,
Gina and Lucy

Roxee's Dad
05-16-2009, 06:33 PM
Hi Gina,

Very happy you are seeing some improvements and hopefully the Goo girl is starting to feel better, even a little bit everyday.

We continue to keep positive thoughts and prayers for Goo's continued recovery.

John (Roxee's Dad)

acushdogsmom
05-16-2009, 06:52 PM
Hi Gina!

Just wanted you to know that we're still keeping everything crossed (fingers, toes and paws!) up here in Canada for you and Lucy. It's surely got to take some time for her to recover after a major surgery like this, so please keep the faith.

And please keep updating as often as you can.

(((HUGS!)))

lulusmom
05-16-2009, 06:54 PM
Hi Gina,

Thanks so much for the update. I know that I'm not the only one that waits for your updates and I love the good reports. I am hoping and praying with everything in me that the impaired vision is a temporary thing. I'll be anxiously awaiting for your next update.

((Warm hugs to you and Lucy))

Glynda

Harley PoMMom
05-16-2009, 07:00 PM
Gina,

So happy you had a nice visit with Lucy.

I bet that did put a smile on your face when she wagged her tail at you :D I know I smiled when I read that in your post.

Thanks for all the updates, I know we've all been worried about you and Lucy and it's been so nice of you to let us follow along so closely.

We'll keep sending positive thoughts and prayers your way.

Squirt's Mom
05-16-2009, 07:00 PM
Hi Gina,

Wagging her tail! Wanting to walk! How wonderful!! :D:D That has just brightened my day! I'm sure it did yours and that you felt some better today than you did yesterday when you left.

Now, get some more sleep tonite and I will pray that tomorrow will be even better than today for both of you.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

lucygoo
05-16-2009, 10:24 PM
Hi everyone....


As I'm writing this Dr. B just called me. I just love him.. He has such a good bedside manner. He's hopeful about Lucy's vision too...he thinks she's had some kind of stroke. But he was very aware of right side/left side difficulties with her, so I'm hopeful now:) Anyway, I know this doesn't make much sense to any of you, and I'm just rambling at this point, but I'm much happier now:)) He wants her to come home tomorrow, so I'm scheduled to pick her up around 1 pm...he wants to see how she does at home.

I'm sure I'll be boring you all soon with my next blabbering nonsense!

Ciao,
Gina and Lucy

BestBuddy
05-16-2009, 10:29 PM
Hi Gina,
The fact that Lucy can come home soon is great. She will recuperate much better at home with you. Vet stress can slow the recovery so getting Lucy home will be good for her and you too, you can watch her all day, and give us lots of updates.:D
Jenny

lucygoo
05-16-2009, 10:34 PM
Jenny,
Thanks...and I can go broke in the meantime!:) I've already decided to take yet another week off in light of the circumstances...I can't see leaving her home alone for even 5 minutes now. What the hell...I just won't go on holiday or vacation now untill...well, forever...but she's worth it, right?

Love to you all:)

Gina and Lucy

BestBuddy
05-16-2009, 10:46 PM
Gina,

Lucy is more than worth it!

Now that Buddy is gone I look back at the things we "gave up" to care for him and I wouldn't change a thing, matter of fact I would do it all again and probably will when one of my other dogs need me.

I know you are stressed and have no so called "yardstick" to measure Lucy's progress but I am so sure that home is the best place for her.

Jenny

SachiMom
05-16-2009, 11:15 PM
Jenny,
Thanks...and I can go broke in the meantime!:) I've already decided to take yet another week off in light of the circumstances...I can't see leaving her home alone for even 5 minutes now. What the hell...I just won't go on holiday or vacation now untill...well, forever...but she's worth it, right?

Love to you all:)

Gina and Lucy

Gina, I couldn't help but have a big smile. You know she is worth it!!!!:D:D:D:D or you wouldn't have even considered staying home!!!! I would say 99.99% of us have, would, or will do the same thing. The pups are so special and so innocent. They ask for nothing, and take only what we give. We just have to give the best that we can. I am really happy that you are able to stay home with her. It will be difficult, not only financially, but emotionally, having to deal with all the new behaviors 24 hours a day. But you can do it, and you will never, ever regret it. Your time and love is the gift that you can give her now. And we will be here to listen when you need to vent, encourage you when you are down. And support you all the way!!!!
Continued healing thoughts and prayers for Lucy.
HUGS to you and Lucy
~ Mary Ann

lucygoo
05-17-2009, 12:39 AM
Mary Ann....you are so right...thank you!:) She's my goo, and I swear if you saw her today, trying so hard, your heart would break too....I love her so much it hurts.

Thank you all so much for being there for me....

xoxo

Gina and Lucy

acushdogsmom
05-17-2009, 12:45 AM
Can't wait to hear you tell us that Lucy is home with you ... I really think she'll recover better in a familiar home environment where you can hug her and hold her and kiss her anytime you want to. :)

The surgery has afforded Lucy a good chance for recovery, where there was really no chance before she had the surgery ... and if there are some adjustments to make, I know you can both make those adjustments.

Sending more hugs :D

(((hugs)))

lucygoo
05-17-2009, 12:49 PM
Hi everyone....time for the morning update.
The vet from the hospital called and told me that Lucy's temperature is running higher. They took out her catheter last night. Dr. B told her to give her a sedative this morning, because sometimes fevers can be caused by anxiety, and I know Lucy's extremely anxious, but this woman said it's a little too high for her liking for it to be from that. She's also on an antibiotic....why would she have a fever?? :confused: I was thinking she probably picked up something from the other animals in there. So now I have to wait and hear what to do..:confused:
As far as the stroke theory, I've googled that and all the symptoms seem to fit...makes sense. Hopefully that means she'll recover from it rather quickly. Does anyone have experience with dogs having strokes? Recovery time, etc?

I'll post again after I hear later this morning....hope you all are having a good Sunday.

Gina and Lucy

Squirt's Mom
05-17-2009, 02:08 PM
Hi Gina,

The fever could be from any number of things so until they have figured out the cause, don't worry too much. It could be something as simple as an infection from the catheter which the antibiotics she's on now don't address. Certain antibiotics are designed to work on specific types of bacteria and aren't effective on others. Debbie and our other medical professionals can explain this much better than I, tho. Thank goodness for our nurses and techs, huh? They are so helpful in explaining things and we are blessed to have these folks as members of our family!

As for stroke info, I have no experience with that and no links to offer...gasp!! But if I run across any, I will pass them on. :D

I still think Lucy is doing very well for all she has been through. It hasn't even been a week yet! She is truly amazing! and so are you! I'm sure as soon as they get the fever figured out, she will get to come home where I hope you will start to see dramatic improvements. Something about familiar surroundings does wonders for the healing process. You will both be more settled when you are back together.

Hang in there! You are doing an exceptional job but not surprising from a dynamite mom like you. :)

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

gpgscott
05-17-2009, 02:24 PM
Gina, you are doing great holding up under difficult circumstances. I am looking forward to your report that Lucy is home and napping in one of her favorite spots.

Scott

lucygoo
05-17-2009, 02:35 PM
Hi everyone....
Just heard from you know who...she said Lucy's temp went back down into the high normal range after the sedative. When I told her she's always been a bit of a nervous nelly, she replied, "Well, I'd be really anxious if I suddenly went blind too." Honestly, I wish she would just stop talking. I know she means well, but good lord!
She said Dr. B still wants her home with me today, so I'm going to get her around 1, and will post as soon as I can after we're home....then I'll probably be posting every minute:eek: You guys are going to have to take out a restraining order on me;)
I'm still trying to find out about this stroke business

Thanks....
Gina and Lucy

forscooter
05-17-2009, 04:12 PM
Glad she is coming home, Gina! I bet you see a big difference over the next day or two as she gets used to being back home around her favorite things! I am still hoping the vision will come back. I do know Bailey, after his surgery in the fall (and nothing at all like what Lucy just went through!!) was much happier once we got home. I slept on the floor with him a few nights, graduated to the same room, then separated and it did wonders for him. I also took time off of work to stay at home and care for him...I don't think any of us wouldn't...so everyone here understands...

as for restraining orders, if I never got one....or Louise for that matter ;) :D, I think you'll be just fine!! And that's what everyone is here for!

Plus, without your updates we'd all be tapping our fingers waiting for news and can you imagine the thump-thump-thump-thumping that would be heard around the world??? You have so many of us rooting for you....

I hope a welcome home Lucy party is soon to start!!

Hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scooter

Harley PoMMom
05-17-2009, 05:29 PM
Gina,

Lucy will feel so much better at home with the love and care of her Mom. :D

And we are all here waiting for the updates and for anything you need to say or just vent.

MiniSchnauzerMom
05-17-2009, 05:52 PM
Gina,

I hope you're home from the vet's office and settling back in with Lucy right now.

For sure, if neither Beth (aka "BB") nor I have gotten a restraining order, there's no way you will! :D If I didn't have this forum and the caring members to hold my hand while I vented my way through the trials and tribulations with Munchie I would be totally bald now (instead of only partially bald!!) :eek:

Looking forward to your update.

Louise

lucygoo
05-17-2009, 08:20 PM
Hi everyone...
Well, we're home. And she's sleeping...thank GOD! I'm exhausted already..I have to have a hold of her everytime she wants to get up. I hate to see her like this. :( Just talked to Dr. B....he said he's sure her vision will come back. He said he'd be very surprised if it didn't. I'm hoping he knows what he's talking about and not just trying to appease me. They think that's where a lot of the anxiety is coming from, poor girl. She still wants to walk, drink water all the time, and always wants to go (pull) to the left, but seems to have a little close vision out of her right eye. She's on a ridiculous amount of medication, and I just hope I get it all right.

Thanks for everything, guys, and I'm sure I'll be posting throughout the evening;)

Gina and Lucy

lulusmom
05-17-2009, 08:22 PM
If I didn't have this forum and the caring members to hold my hand while I vented my way through the trials and tribulations with Munchie I would be totally bald now (instead of only partially bald!!) :eek:

Hmmm? Sounds to me like you could have some abnormal intermediate adrenal steroid/hormone activity. You may want to ask your M.D. if s/he could request a full UTK panel for you. Just remember that estradiol can be a problem to control. :D:p:D:o

AlisonandMia
05-17-2009, 08:27 PM
So great that she is home - and that she is sleeping. Sounds a bit like bringing a baby home from hospital for the first time!

With the drinking - have they mentioned the possibility of Diabetes Insipidus (DI) (completely different from the diabetes that this site is about) and is she on medication for it? I understand that it is a really common, and usually temporary result, of pituitary surgery.

When I've had animals or people on multiple and tricky med schedules I've made myself a table setting it all out that I can tick off as I give the med along with a section for any "comments" I may want to make. It can very useful to (a) keep you on track particularly if you are tired or stressed and (b) as a record if there is any reaction (good or bad) to any med.

Alison

Harley PoMMom
05-17-2009, 08:37 PM
Oh Gina,

That's great, Lucy's finally home. You are probably so scared right now, with all the meds., watching her like a hawk... but you'll do just fine...remember to get some sleep too, you know.

I'm hoping that you will be amazed at how well Lucy will recover at home in her familiar environment with her loving Mom to dote on her...oh, she will be so spoiled :D:D But, that's what our furbabies are here for, for us to love and to spoil.

I really don't believe Dr. B. would pacify you about her vision, if he says that he believes her vision will come back, then he truly believes that, and we must think positive, right? :)

Very much looking forward to your posts tonight, but like I said, do TRY to get so sleep dear Gina.

Roxee's Dad
05-17-2009, 08:52 PM
Hi Gina,
So happy that you got the Goo Girl home. I can imagine feeling like a basket case but your doing a wonderful job and taking good care of her. Keep positive and good thoughts. We are.

We are all pulling for you and the GooGirl.
John (Roxee's Dad)

Carol G
05-17-2009, 08:53 PM
How wonderful for both of you that she is home. Dorothy was right -- there is no place like home.

I second what Alison said about a chart to check off or write down when you give the meds. I find it is the only way to keep things straight -- particularly at first.

We will be waiting for updates.

Carol, McGill, Atty Cat & Winnie (always)

4Mikeydog
05-17-2009, 09:04 PM
Hi Gina,

I am so glad you are both home and that you are together. :) I am also very encouraged by Dr. B's prognosis. I definitely don't think he is just trying to appease you.
You are doing a miraculous job of coping and caring for Lucy at this unbelievably stressful time. I second the opinion that Lucy will be more comfortable with you in the environment that she is used to at home.
Keep up the wonderful job you are doing and we will all keep the positive feelings and prayers going for the two of you!! You are an amazing dogmom and an inspiration to all of us!!!

with love and prayers...
Dorothy and Mikey

lucygoo
05-17-2009, 09:05 PM
Hi guys....and thanks as always.
Here's what she's on now:
Clavamox 375 mg, bid (antibiotic) for 7 days
Baytril 136 mg once daily for 10- days...may discontinue after urine culture.
Cortisone acetate 25 mg, 1 tablet bid indefinitely
Thyroxine 0.4 mg 1 tablet bid indefinitely
DDVAP drops: 1 drop into conjunctival sac twice daily (This regulates water balance)...Dr. B said to watch her water consumption, and they can adjust accordinly

Acepromazine 25 mg for anxiety as needed
Artificial tears, 1/4 inch strip in each eye twice daily

She's also on Science Diet A/D...am going to try to transition her back to regular food in a few days....it also says to offer her food and water four times a day

Here are her diagnoses:
1) History of pituitary dependent hyperadrenocoriticism with decreased appeitite and weight loss.
2) History of pituitary macroadenoma/pituitary removal 5/13/09
3) Hypothyroid secondary to lack of TSH
4) Hypocortisolemia secondary to lack of ACTH
5) Blind - suspect caudal to the optic nerve due to mechanical injury vs. inflammation vs. vascular event
6) Fever - rule out inflammation vs. infections vs. hypothalamic dysfunction.

If anyone has any experience/tips on meds or anything listed here, Lucy and I would much appreciate any feedback.

You guys are the best, and thanks for hanging in there with me:)

Gina and Lucy

Squirt's Mom
05-17-2009, 09:24 PM
Hi Gina,

I am so glad Lucy is home now! She will feel much better with you by her side. Rest when you can and try not to fret.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

AlisonandMia
05-17-2009, 09:28 PM
DDVAP drops: 1 drop into conjunctival sac twice daily (This regulates water balance)...Dr. B said to watch her water consumption, and they can adjust accordinly

This is for the DI (Diabetes Insipidus) - without the drops she would be needing to drink, and drink and drink and would be peeing to match - in fact I should have put that round the other way really - the urination is really what drives the thirst. A dog with DI needs free access to as much water as they need at all times as the only way they can avoid dehydration is to take in water - they are unable to concentrate their urine. The drops replace the hormone that "tells" the kidneys to conserve water and which she isn't able to produce for herself at the moment.

There is at least one member here who has experience with DI - Sharon (Ventilate) has two dogs with it but not as a result of surgery or anything.

I thought you might find this interesting as it sounds like it may be what Lucy is experiencing:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight

I guess they have a follow-up MRI planned at some stage?

Alison

lucygoo
05-17-2009, 09:38 PM
Yes, Alison, she does have a follow-up MRI...they just don't want to traumatize her too much right now with more anesthesia and the whole nightmare. That will also tell us if she's had a stroke, I think...right? I'm bringing her back for a visit with Dr. B on Wednesday, if all goes well here at home, of course, and he'll know more then....meanwhile I'm calling him constantly as well....I told him he's going to have to take out a restraining order on me, too.

I'm getting kind of concerned with the potty thing. I told Dr. B she hasn't gone since we picked her up at 1....he said, "That's good." huh? I guess he's glad so she can concentrate her urine, but she's still drinking a lot of water. I guess she'll let me know somehow if she has to go. I'm also checking her temp 3 times a day.

Thanks for the advice, everyone....it really helps:)

Gina and Lucy

AlisonandMia
05-17-2009, 09:47 PM
Maybe she got a bit dehydrated when in hospital because she wasn't as relaxed and didn't drink as much? I hope she stops worrying you on this front soon.

My dog (basically-healthy 20 month old at the time) had a three day hospital stay and he didn't drink well when there either (fortunately he was on a drip most of the time so it wasn't an issue) - but the first pee he had on getting home looked like coca-cola (:eek::eek::eek:) it was so dark and concentrated because of his inadequate water intake because of his not wanting to drink while away from home!

Alison

lucygoo
05-17-2009, 11:17 PM
We went outside and she peed!:D
And the water consumption is decreasing. I think she was just really thirsty from the ride home and everything. She does want to circle though....and she keeps insisting on pulling and going to the left:confused: I also don't really see any awareness that she's even home...maybe I'm putting too much on her too soon, but I just hate to see her suffering so much:(

The saga continues.......

Gina and Lucy

Buffaloe
05-17-2009, 11:27 PM
Hi Gina,

I think everything sounds really good with Lucy. I am so happy she is home where she is comfortable and happy. She will heal much better with her Mom around and in her own home.

I don't believe Lucy even had a stroke, of course I don't know. I just think some very sensitive things got tweaked in her brain area and they will all adjust and heal with time. I've always thought Lucy will regain her eyesight and if Dr. B expects her to, she almost certainly will. Bottom line, that big old nasty tumor is out of there and now she just needs to heal. I'm sure her not seeing much is throwing her for a loop for now.

Every time I visited Shiloh after her adrenalectomy she drank copious amounts of water. Soon after I got her home she just drank like a normal dog. Have some patience, Lucy is some kind of a trooper! I just feel certain she is going to heal up well and she will get better every day.

Ken

lucygoo
05-17-2009, 11:33 PM
Thanks Ken....
I can really appreciate that coming from you, and I'll just keep thinking of you and your remarkable Shi. It really is helping me get through this; you all are.

Hugs,
Gina and Lucy

BestBuddy
05-18-2009, 04:00 AM
Gina,
I'm glad Lucy has stopped drinking so much and has even peed. Every little improvement even if small is heading in the right direction. I know how much you want Lucy to get better but it is all going to take time.
Jenny

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 04:10 AM
I gave Lucy an acepromazine around 9:30 p.m....It's not 1:10 a.m. she's now breathing heavy, hasn't moved in two hours, and shit right where she lay, and I can't seem to wake her up. She responds a little, but not much. I called the hospital, the vet on duty didn't seem too concerned...said if her breathing gets below 30 rpm to call or bring her in....I just e-mailed Dr. B....Does anyone have experience with this acepromazine crap?
Looks like I'm going to be up all night with her again....
Gina and Lucy

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 04:36 AM
I think it's the acepromazine...it says on the thing it will make her "quite sedate." Poor thing...now I'm up counting her respirations and checking temps. Next time she's only getting half of one of those suckers. Plus I think we went a little heavy this evening on the A/D food...diarrhea in her sleep:eek:
More to follow, I'm sure....
G and L

BestBuddy
05-18-2009, 04:38 AM
I'm not sure if it's the same thing but my kelpie Nelson used to get so stressed in a thunderstorm that the vet gave us some acp tablets to calm him. I was told I could give him whole tablet but it completely sedated him to the point of coma so I only ever gave him half when needed and even that made him quite spaced out.
Jenny

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 04:47 AM
Jenny....thank you so much...You're a life saver. I'm pretty sure that's what it is....that's what the junior vet on duty thought it was, anyway, but he looks about 12 years old, too, so what does he know.
I'm so glad you answered....that makes me feel so much better:)
Hugs,
Gina and Lucy

AlisonandMia
05-18-2009, 04:55 AM
The diarrhea could also be a side effect of the antibiotics.

I just Googled acepromazine and it looks like an adverse effect can be slow heart beat - they say less than 60 beats per minute - maybe you should take her pulse and contact them if it is too slow.

Hope that she is just a bit "bombed out" and is having a nice sleep - even if you aren't.

Alison

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 05:02 AM
Thanks Alison...I'll do that. Her respirations have been about 58 to 60 per minute, and I would describe her breathing as panting with her mouth closed. I'll check her pulse now.

Thank God for you ladies in Australia:)

AlisonandMia
05-18-2009, 05:06 AM
Hopefully her heart rate is nice and normal and you can relax and grab a few hours' sleep yourself.

I'm about to go and take my dog out for a walk (it 7.00pm here) but I'll be back in around an hour and I suspect Jenny will be checking in some time probably before then too.

Alison

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 05:27 AM
I can't seem to get a good pulse on her, but her heartbeat seems rather rapid...her temp keeps going up too, but apparently that's normal for her lately...junior vet told me to call if it gets above 104.5. It's now 103ish. Fahrenheit, that is. He said the acepromazine should start wearing off in six to eight hours....so I should start to see something aroud 3ish, right? It's 2:30 now. I gave it to her around 9:15 - 9:30ish.
It's just her breathing is bothering me. Maybe it's because she's got a fever?

BestBuddy
05-18-2009, 05:40 AM
If it helps any my Nelson was so out of it for around 8 hours and he was at the time a young and healthy boy. I though I had killed him because he just couldn't move. I don't remember about his breathing or heart rate at the time but he really looked like he had been put under anesthetic.


I know you will sit any watch Lucy all night but if it is the acp don't expect any great changes for around 8 hours, as long as her breathing is regular and heart not too slow then it will probably be just a matter of waiting the drug out.

If you want to talk I'll be around for a few more hours yet (it's only 7.30pm here in Australia).

Jenny

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 05:55 AM
Thanks, Jenny....
I think that's what it is...I'm just being overly paranoid. Maybe she needs a good long sleep....it's just they gave her one this morning, and she was up and walking around at 1 p.m. I think they gave it to her around 8:30 9ish this morning. Guess I'll have to wait until Dr. B calls me before I can relax a bit.

BestBuddy
05-18-2009, 07:12 AM
I really don't know how the acp works but maybe there was some residual from this morning and the second one really zonked Lucy out. I do know that it works much faster/stronger if given on an empty stomach, when did Lucy eat? As long as she is not in distress the sleep will actually do her the world of good and you will have another sleepless night!
I guess it's one of those things that you will have to wait out.
Jenny

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 07:16 AM
Hi Jenny...you're right. It's just the rapid breathing that's worrisome. At one point I counted 80 respirations per minute...I hope she's not going into shock or something. I checked her gums, and they're pink...temp's running about 103.3.

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 07:21 AM
She ate around 9 pm, because that's when I had to give her all her meds...so she definitely ate with the pill...I can't believe they said I could give her up to 3 a day:eek::eek: I also just read online that you should not give it to older animals..

BestBuddy
05-18-2009, 07:28 AM
Gina,
You really are doing great. I know you must be scared but as long as Lucy's vitals are ok then you are just going to have to wait it out. I also wanted to say that if I gave Nelson the acp at 6pm at night even at the 12 hour mark he was a bit mellow (dopey??) but once he ate it seemed to snap him out of it.
I am sorry you are going to have a long hard night but fingers crossed that all will be well in the morning. I'm sure the vets have taken into account Lucy's age and health but no way would I be giving 3 a day.:eek:

Jenny

PS Nelson has since passed away age 14 1/2 and until he lost some hearing around 12yo he was still getting the occasional acp (half only) with no problems at all. Just for the record he weighed around 25kg, how much does Lucy normally weigh.

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 07:35 AM
Jenny...thanks for the support, and getting me through this horrific night:(
Lucy weighs about 50 lbs. now.

BestBuddy
05-18-2009, 07:47 AM
I was just trying to get my head around exactly how big Lucy is......about the same as Nelson was so I don't envy you having to pick her up or carry her around. Anything over about 10kg is definitley not what I'd call portable. All mine now are little and very easy to pick up.:D

Just had another thought, Lucy's body is sedated but her mind isn't so unless she's sleeping she will probably be able to hear you talking to her. I'm guessing she isn't far away from you but if you leave her alone maybe even some nice relaxing music would be calming.

Jenny

BestBuddy
05-18-2009, 07:52 AM
Hey Gina,
I just wanted to say that it's nearing 10pm here and if I want to be awake at work tomorrow I'd better try to catch a few zzzzz. I usually have to get up through the night for my elderly Phoebe's toilet trip so I will be back to check.
Keep posting and I'm sure others will be waking soon to join in.
Jenny

PS Give Lucy a nose rub and tell her she has friends all over the world looking out for her.

Harley PoMMom
05-18-2009, 07:55 AM
Hi Gina,

I found this link in our old ccnet library, hope it helps with the acepromazine:http://www.marvistavet.com/html/acepromazine.html

frijole
05-18-2009, 08:13 AM
Gina - so glad Lucy is home. Looks like it was a tough night. You were in the best of hands with our Aussies Jen and Alison. Hope you managed to get some rest. Hang in there. I too feel Lucy will be just fine and continue to get a little better each day. You are an awesome mom. Don't forget to take care of yourself thru all of this. Big hugs, Kim

forscooter
05-18-2009, 08:36 AM
Gina...I am sorry you had such a tough night too. I'm glad you had some help to get you through....usually someone is on at some point. I wanted to let you know that they have given Bailey the acp, it knocked him for a loop for a longer time than anyone would expect. Each dog, like people, metabolizes things differently. Bailey is just very sensitive to most medications....except for the one med they gave him for me to give at home...that did nothing. I have to look at what that one was. But, anyway, the vet always looks at me shocked when I tell him that Bailey will be "out of it" more like 12 hours. My other bassett, pre-Scooter and Bailey (Heidi) was the same way. It just took much longer for tranquilizers and anything with a sedative effect to wear off. So, maybe not only the half tablet dosing may be worth trying, but also spacing things out a bit more? Something to check with your vet on anyway. For whatever reason, it just takes a bit longer to clear the system in some. Again, it can be an individual thing depending on metabolism.

I hope today is a much better day. I am confident, like the others, that you will continue to see improvement each day especially now that Lucy is home. And I would be that she does know she is home, the smells and sounds would let her know that....and having you by her side!

Lots of hugs, Beth, Bailey and always Scoobie

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 08:54 AM
Thanks everyone....I'm still up and waiting for a call..she's still not responsive at all. It's 5:51 ...her temp's down a bit to about 102.6, and she seems to be breathing a little easier, but not much....and she coughed up a dime size spot of brownish blood...I'm thinking from the incision.....I'm definitely not giving her a whole pill of that anymore, but I'm still concerned about the breathing...it seems she's in pain even though she's sedated..is that possible:confused:

Thanks again everyone for getting me through this..

Gina and Lucy

gpgscott
05-18-2009, 09:26 AM
Hi Gina,

Sorry you had such an axious night, but it sounds like it went OK.

Moria had hip surgery as a pup and about 6 years later developed a deep abscess. It took several days to properly diagnose and I was given acepromazine for sedation and pain relief and I can understand given Lucy's no doubt weaked condition from the surgery that it is putting her out of it. It is a commonly prescribed sedative but it probably is a good idea to ask of you can try a smaller dose.

Hoping she recovers her sight soon.

Best wishes. Scott

Buffaloe
05-18-2009, 10:50 AM
Hi Gina,

I just got up and was checking on you and Lucy.

The following is just my opinion, but it is my definite opinion. I believe alot of doctors prescribe more meds. than is neccessary. I know that after adrenalectomies, many surgeons have the dog on pain killers for many days and a myriad of other prescription medications. I'm so thankful, my surgeon doesn't believe in all that; Shi only took vitamin A, prednisone and a baby aspirin after I brought her home and she did great. Every time I go to the doctor, they try to prescribe something for me. A couple of months ago I told my vet that Shi occasionally has incontinence. He prescribed a normal dose of proin for a week. I gave her the first dose and it sent her for a loop. On my own I lowered the dose by 50% and she's done great. Now I give her a small amount once a week and she has NO incontinence. I'm not suggesting you not follow the doctor's orders on meds. and I don't know dink about these particular meds. But, I am completely committed to not ever giving Shiloh anything that might hurt her. I'm the one responsible for her well-being and I will question any doctor who prescribes anything for her and make my own decisions.

I hope Lucy is feeling better. I know you haven't had any sleep and that makes all of this much tougher on you. I hope you have an opportunity to discuss her meds and your other concerns with Dr. B soon.

Ken

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 10:54 AM
Thanks everyone, but I still haven't heard anything, and now I'm waiting for the woman vet who discharged her to call me back after rounds. I honestly don't think Lucy's going to make it much longer. She's not responding at all, and lifts her head just slightly to pant. I can't take watching her suffer any more.

debbie
05-18-2009, 11:31 AM
I just saw your post. My heart is with you and lucy. I am sitting here crying.

Harley PoMMom
05-18-2009, 11:45 AM
Oh Gina,

I am here too, I am hoping for the best.

Is there anyway you can contact Dr. B. personally, by his cell number?

Will be praying and sending positive thoughts your way.

Harley and Lori

Trooper
05-18-2009, 11:45 AM
I prayed for Lucy and I will continue to pray for Lucy.

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 12:10 PM
It's me again...I'm bringing her back to the hospital. Just waiting for a freind to come help me. Dr. B's not sure why she's so out of it....I just turned her over....she hung her head for a second and panted, then went back out.
This is the worst thing in the world.

Thanks for the prayers and wishes all...

Gina and Lucy

debbie
05-18-2009, 12:12 PM
I am praying.

Harley PoMMom
05-18-2009, 12:20 PM
Gina,

We will be here and we all will be praying for Lucy and you.

Hopefully it is just the acp., I have faith that the hospital will help Lucy feel better.

Squirt's Mom
05-18-2009, 12:32 PM
Hi Gina,

Have been keeping up and am heartsick that Lucy may be having some problems. My prayers and thoughts are with you both.

Hugs,
Leslie and the girls

lucygoo
05-18-2009, 12:44 PM
THanks guys...I'm still waiting for my friend to get here, so I thought I'd chat with you all for a while...I thought she even might be in a coma, but she does blink if I touch her face near her eyes, and if I grab her hind paws she reacts a little. I don't know what to do now...will I know when it's time to say enough is enough? I hate to have put her through all this only to have this as the result.

Thanks for listening and helping everyone..

Gina and Lucy

Kallie'smom
05-18-2009, 01:00 PM
Fingers crossed and praying!!!

4Mikeydog
05-18-2009, 01:01 PM
Gina,

I am praying for Lucy and you as well.

with love and prayers,
Dorothy and Mikey