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Thread: New to this and in need of direction

  1. #1
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    Jun 2017
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    Default New to this and in need of direction

    Hello! My name is Moe and my 13 year old fox terrier mix Nugget is being tested for cushings. He's just been tested today and we are waiting for results. In the meantime he's been on denamarin and eating the hills g/d brand from the vet. Being a complete newbie, I googled. my vet initially told me that changing his diet could help dramatically and said things about turkey and fish. So I thought heck I got this.... wrong. Since we didn't have a diagnosis yet and there's not many specific recipes for cushings. I have not been through all the threads on here so please forgive. So I decided to wait and have been giving the hills watered down and mushed and adding grain free wet food for taste. Went to vet today asking questions on recipes and which food is best and affordable to get. Her reply to me was she didn't believe in grain free and that's its s fad and only to feed him hills until and if we get him regulated after medications and time. I have to be honest and say I have to penny punch and find some kind of discounts. I take care of my toddler and my mother pretty much in my own. I have read that a good diet can help and a mixed one is just as good. I need s dummy book it feels and she made me feel like all that I've read was bogus and for nothing. I don't want to make the wrong food for him, upset us stomach or worse and stress myself out worrying about wether it's right or not for cushings. A few recipes to get me started and more time on this site I think will help. I also at this time can't afford a second opinion from the vet and it is early to say because I have no test results. Are there commercial brands out there that won't break the bank? Or kill my pup? Homemade recipes? Opinions on my vet? Am I on the right track? My family actually wants me to put him down!! Im stressed with nobody in my corner.

  2. #2
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    Apr 2009
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    Georgia
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    Default Re: New to this and in need of direction

    Hello and welcome to you and Nugget -- and kudos to you for taking the time and effort to research different options for your baby boy!

    First off, it will help us a lot if you can tell us more about Nugget's overall health history, as well as the symptoms that have led you to test for Cushing's. That will also help us know whether there's a special need for a uniquely tailored diet. I just checked, and Hill's g/d just seems to be directed to "the aging dog" as opposed to a specific health condition. If so, I don't know why your vet is so adamant about it being your only preferred choice since it seems likely to me that you could rather easily find a non-Rx commercial food with a similar nutritional profile.

    As far as Cushing's, our experience here is that there is no particular type of food or diet that is necessarily "better" in terms of managing the disease. We have folks who feed commercial, homemade, raw, cooked, grainfree, grain-containing -- all with variable results, and with none standing out as a reliably superior choice. We do generally recommend moderate amounts of high quality protein and lower fat levels, but that's about it unless there are other specific underlying medical conditions at play.

    So I wouldn't think you'd need to be wedded to the Hill's Rx food unless there's something else going on that we don't know about. Here is one cautionary note about that, though -- your vet is right insofar as saying that it's best not to make dietary changes in the midst of beginning Cushing's medication. Changes in appetite, vomiting, or diarrhea can all be symptoms of drug overdosing, so you don't want to muddy the water right as you are beginning treatment. If it turns out that Nugget does have Cushing's and you want to begin medication treatment immediately, it would probably be best to leave his food alone for at least the first couple of months. But that is also assuming that he is currently not having any GI problems on the Hill's, and is happy to eat it.

    OK, I'll go ahead and pause for now . But once again, we're very glad you've found us and we look forward to learning much more about your sweet Nugget.

    Marianne

  3. #3
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    Jun 2017
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    4

    Default Re: New to this and in need of direction

    Thank you, I feel a bit alone in this. Nuggets history, the Nuggenator. let me see he's definitely this year been showing his age. And coincidentally just before he started showing symptoms I was telling others that he was going to out live us all. I would tell people when he was a pup that I think ic he had a voice it would be a stern Russian accent. Not a playful dog, a toy hoarder and a total garbage disposal. Which I'm for sure is why we are in this situation. He's bounced between my mother and I, and with that fluctuate with weight. J jay gave always fed him kibble but it was measured and usually just meat from scraps, nothing crazy. My mom who spoils him would give him anything from tapioca to bits of her leftover cheeseburger. 😤 What led us to take him in to our vet was actually a infected hair folicle. Which I thought was cancerous tumor leading to what I thought were symptoms. Over eating, almost scavenging food, over drinking and peeing in the floor. At first we chalked it up to old age. His sight and hearing have been diminishing. The dr took it from there. Past history is he's had teeth removed for gum disease and he has a torn acl(?) in his knee. So he's already weak in his back legs. The dr had told me the hills g/d was for his liver. I asked if I could get if else where but the answer was no. They did offer up the denamarin through pet meds.
    I know his age is up there and I know he won't live forever but is this going to be manageable? Even with his age?

  4. #4
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    Apr 2009
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    York, PA.
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    Default Re: New to this and in need of direction

    Hi and welcome to you and Nugget from me as well!

    Cushing's is a treatable disease but it can be somewhat of a roller coaster ride finding the dosage that keeps that elevated cortisol under control. And, you're not alone, we are right there by your side walking this journey with you, ok

    Now, I have just a few questions Can you tell us what test/s were used to diagnose his Cushing's, and if you have those results, could you post them for us? Did Nugget have a chemistry/CBC blood panel done, and if so, could you post those values that are abnormal with the reference ranges? Has the vet mentioned what medication she prefers to use for Cushing's?

    Regarding what a dog with Cushing's should eat, as Marianne has said, there isn't a standard diet for that as it needs to be tailored to an individual dog's needs and health issues. For instance, my Harley was diagnosed with pancreatitis so his diet was a very low fat one. If a dog is doing well on the feed they are eating than a change is really not needed.

    We surely do understand and sympathize with you regarding the cost. The initial expense is during the diagnostic phase and when a dog becomes stabilized on treatment the cost does go down considerably. The medications used to treat Cushing's can be compounded and this does help with keeping the cost down. Those ACTH stim tests that are used for monitoring are expensive because of the stimulating agent. Cortrosyn is generally the stim agent used and if the dog is small in weight another cost savings would be for the vet to reconstitute the Cortrosyn...but more on that later. Lets see what the test/s results are and we will go on from there.

    Please remember we are here for both you and Nugget, and we will help in any way we can. If there questions that you have do not hesitate to ask them.

    Hugs, Lori

  5. #5
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    Apr 2009
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    Florida
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    Default Re: New to this and in need of direction

    Hi! I wanted to add my "welcome" to you and Nugget. You have already received excellent guidance as well as the critical questions we ask of new members. I did want to add that vets who sell dog food tend to "push" that dog food. If you are buying the Hills prescription food from your vet, this may be why he is insistent upon you sticking with it.
    Judy H. (Always "Maggie and Abbie's Mom" & now "Sadie Sue's Mom")
    Venice, FL

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    4

    Default Re: New to this and in need of direction

    Thank you! Thank you! I'm really so happy I found this forum and puppy parents and understand.

    I myself am still waiting for test results. Hopefully tomorrow. It's very reassuring to know all if you have been in my shoes or are in the same situation I am in. Also getting in touch with you before hand because now I have my eyes open for the results and feel a bit more confident. Thank you again.

    For tonight I am going to attempt a diy doggy diaper. 😋😇 wish me luck. The pee pads work but sometimes he just doesn't make it to them. Also trying to cut my costs. Happy to hear the costs will level out. 😩 Itching to get these results to share with you and talk with the vet with which roads and paths me and my pup are going to take.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
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    10

    Default Re: New to this and in need of direction

    Have you tried belly bands to help with the peeing? I didn't have any luck with my Cushing's dog, but they worked great for my other dog. My other dog pee'd in one once and then decided he didn't want to do that ever again. My Cushing's dog will just pee in it and wear it totally wet like nothing ever happened.

    I was really concerned about the money, too, when factoring not only the cost of the medicine, but the blood tests. The medicine made such a huge difference that we redid our budget to pay for all of it. If he was still miserable on the medicine or if it didn't make a big enough difference, I would have taken him off.

    I had my dog on denamarin and a very special diet (myperfectpet) trying to manage his symptoms on my own for a long time. It helped for about a year. He had all the symptoms of Cushings when I adopted him, but he had other more major concerns that the vets were dealing with. Twice I was told that he didn't seem like he had Cushings. It was an associate vet who figured it out a few years later when I brought him in for Meniere's. She noticed the pattern in his urine and blood tests and after we talked, she said he most likely had it and ordered the next test for it. He did test "positive" although the way she explained it to me was that the diagnosis was more about symptoms than blood and the blood test were more about monitoring medication.

    It's important to have a vet that you feel you can talk to. Mine treats me like an intelligent person and gives me more info than I could ever ask for about the risks/rewards other patient outcomes, etc. It makes a huge difference when deciding about treatment options. I don't buy vet pushed food. They get a commission on the food and I am sure they believe in what they are pushing, but think about what a dog would eat in the wild. They don't eat processed grains. Junk food for people is also junk food for animals.

  8. #8
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    Jun 2017
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    4

    Default Re: New to this and in need of direction

    I don't know how to feel right now. I called on Tuesday and no call back. Had to call today again to ask for my results. Which this dr has told me are in "the grey". 😖😭 So they don't want to treat for cushings if it's not cushings. Well I hope so. Options are ultra sound to measure glands to see if it's cushings, or start giving insulin to control his glucose. In which if it doesn't work he had cushings if it does work it'll get rid if the cushings like symptoms.
    Truly I can't afford an ultra sound at all right now. I'm really worried about giving him injections because I'd be the only one really that could do it. And my fear is mainly that I don't know much about it. I have a toddler and card for my mother who rarely comes out of her room and when she does it's unproductive as far as she can't do much and asking her to give an injection may be too much. Does anyone here know about giving insulin? Is it crucial to be on the hour? Approximately how much does it cost? What do I need to know? I just cried my eyes out not only for my pup , my stress, and the cost and I'd like to karate chop this Dr for being so insensitive.

  9. #9
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    Georgia
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    Default Re: New to this and in need of direction

    Oh gosh, Moe, I surely understand why you're so upset -- I would be, too. But truly, you're not alone in this and we have a sister forum that is dedicated to dealing with diabetic dogs. It's set up just like we are here . So after you finish reading this note, please head on over and register. The kind folks there will be able to answer all your questions about insulin.

    http://www.k9diabetes.com/forum/

    Now that we are hearing this new info that Nugget has elevated glucose, I honestly can't disagree with your vet's advice. Uncontrolled diabetes can indeed elevate cortisol and skew Cushing's test results, and diabetes also produces many overlapping symptoms. Between the two disorders, it is much more important to address high blood sugar first. Just as your vet has said, sometimes that is the source of all the problems as opposed to Cushing's. The manner in which Nugget responds to the insulin will give you important clues as to whether to proceed with more Cushing's testing later on. So given all the pressures on you right now, I'd just cut through everything else and move directly to the diabetic management.

    However, it will help us tremendously if you will get actual copies of these lab reports so we can all know exactly what numbers you're talking about, both re: the Cushing's test and also Nugget's glucose level (as well as any other abnormal lab values). Right now, I'm taking it at face value that he is diabetic with borderline Cushing's results. But we need to know the exact numbers. Especially, the K9Diabetes folks will need to know exactly what Nugget's glucose reading is.

    So here are your marching orders : go and register on K9Diabetes, and contact your vet to get actual copies of those tests. And please, please know that we are all here to help you every step of the way!

    Marianne

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