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Thread: 14 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

  1. #101
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    Default Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    Hi Everyone-

    I need a little help. I have questions about two things: 1)acupuncture and 2)Tramadol dosing.

    1) Hannah had acupuncture treatment number 2 yesterday for her back problem. She has improved over the past week but still had pain on one needle insertion right in the sore area. This morning she seemed lethargic to me and when I took her out to poop this afternoon she seems to be moving more slowly. She is moving a little more slowly in general. I called the vet this morning and mentioned it and they said some pets will be tired after and I read online that they can initially seem worse. For any of you who have experience with acupuncture, have you seen the same thing? I mean she still walks, eats, wags her tail, chews a bone, etc., but she is moving more slowly. She was almost trotting around behind me in the house the past couple of days.

    2) My regular vet and the acupuncture vet recommend Tramadol for pain if she needs it from this point on. My regular vet told me tonight (because I called and asked about why she seems slower) that I should give it tomorrow if I think she is in pain. They gave me 50mg tablets quartered, and it says to give the 1/4 tablet twice a day. Hannah is about 12 lbs.-she varies from 12 to 12.5 lbs. Does that sound okay to you? I know many of you have mentioned concerns about Tramadol and strange reactions.

    Also, I am unsure if she is truly in more pain, or if this is a typical reaction after acupuncture. I suppose I can call them again tomorrow morning and ask them. I don't want to give meds if I don't need to, but I don't want her to be in a lot of pain either.

    Thanks for your help!

    Julie & Hannah

  2. #102
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    Default Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    Julie, I would give 1/2 the dose the vet suggested. Several of us have initially used tramadol at the dosage that was suggested, & proceeded to watch our pups become so totally "stoned", they had absolutely no idea what was going on. This has happened to me twice, once with Harley, once with Chewbacca. Harley was my 12 lb. Tzu that the ER clinic suggested 1/2 of a 50 mg tablet after he ulcerated his cornea quite badly. I proceeded to watch a little dog who had no utter clue as to what was going on, wouldn't respond to my voice, get lost in the house, wouldn't eat or drink. It scared the crap out of me! After I cut the dose back, he did fine. I would not dose twice a day unless you were absolutely sure Hannah needed it.

    Debbie
    Mom to 2 Cushing's angels

  3. #103
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    Default Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    Thanks! So, do you think I should just give the 1/4 tablet once? I also read some stuff about not giving Anipryl with Tramadol, but Dr. Bruyette responded to my email and said it is okay in pets. I found a few places online though where people have reported negative reactions and it says not to. UGH.

    Julie & Hannah

  4. #104
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    Default Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    I used Tramadol with my boy, Harley, many times. He never had an adverse response to it but like Debbie has mentioned some member's pups have. Harley weighed about 25lbs and when he was acting uncomfortable he received 25mg of tramadol 2x a day with no adverse effects...like we say...all pups are different!

  5. #105
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    Post Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    Julie Penny has been using Tramadol for a long time - between all her knee surgries - teeth being pulled and her lumbar pain -- she is 82 lbs - she can take 1 1/2 tablets 2 - 3xs a day 50mg tablets!! OMG if I did that she would be in a coma!! I give her 25 to 50 mg just at bedtime - she relaxes - sleeps well and the next day she is good to go - so start off low - the vet said Penny is just very very sensitive to the med but as other members are saying it does make some of them stoned!! So low does to start but it really really helps Penny - she relaxes and gets a good nites sleep and I can see the difference by morning - she moves alot better - but again every dog is different - low dose - and go from there - hope it helps - xoxo
    Last edited by Cyn719; 10-07-2011 at 09:22 PM.
    xoxo Cindy & Penny

  6. #106
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    Default Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    Have any of you used Tramadol with Anipryl? So many things to think about...

    Thanks!!!

    Julie & Hannah

  7. #107
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    Post Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    Julie

    Penny took tramadoly while she was on Vetoryl I dont like all these drugs but at this point in her life if the tramadol gives her a rested good nites sleep then I have to use it ---- Penny is on the dreaded Rimadyl tooI know but we took her off it and she ended up in the hospital in the worse pain last week when we thought we were going to lose her and shes back on it and she is doing good - so Addy put it well I am between a rock and a hard spot so right now I have to have her comfy - she is going on the Adequan Shots next week also so then I will start to cut back on Rimadyl - hope Hannah feels better xo
    xoxo Cindy & Penny

  8. #108
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    Arrow Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_tramadol.html

    Julie I dont know how reliable this article is but it says not to use with Anipryl



    INTERACTIONS WITH OTHER DRUGS:

    The beauty of this pain reliever is that it is compatible with all the COX -inhibiting non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, possibly even synergizing with them. It is also compatible with joint pain nutriceuticals such as glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin sulfate etc.

    Tramadol is NOT compatible with Deprenyl. Animals taking deprenyl either to control Cushing’s Syndrome or to control senility may not take any sort of narcotic medication including tramadol. Similarly, tramadol is not compatible with other psychoactive drugs such as serotonin reuptake inhibitors, tricyclic antidepressants, or monoamine oxidase inhibitors. If you are not sure if your pet is on one of these medications, check with your veterinarian.

    Tramadol may not be compatible with SAMe, a liver and joint support nutriceutical. Until further studies are performed, these two treatments should not be used together.

    Tramadol can induce sedation when combined with amitraz, the active ingredient in the Preventic® tick control collar and also in Promeris Canine®, a flea and tick control product recently removed from the market. Amitraz is also sometimes used in the treatment of demodectic mange.
    Last edited by Cyn719; 10-07-2011 at 10:04 PM.
    xoxo Cindy & Penny

  9. #109
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    Default Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    Hi Julie,

    After doing some researching on the treatment of using Tramadol and Anipryl together, if it were my dog, I wouldn't do it. Anipryl (selegiline), also known as L-Deprenyl, is a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI.) When Anipryl and Tramadol are used together a condition known as serotonin toxicity may develop.

    I found this excerpt from the British Journal of Anaestheasia:
    Pethidine, tramadol, dextromethorphan and methadone definitely are weak SRIs (see Table 2), and may infrequently precipitate dose-dependant serotonin toxicity (when administered in conjunction with any type of MAOI), but perhaps only in large doses or susceptible individuals.
    Here is the link: Monoamine oxidase inhibitors, opioid analgesics and serotonin toxicity

    I am truly a big worry-wart when it comes to interactions like this so hopefully others will comment as well.

    Love and hugs,
    Lori

  10. #110
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    Default Re: 12 year-old Shih Tzu With Recent Cushing's Diagnosis

    Hi Julie,

    My dogs have taken Tramadol as directed with none of the problems described by others. Apparently, dogs are like people....some are very sensitive to certain drugs and others aren't.

    I think it is very interesting that more than a few websites state that Tramadol should not be given with Anipryl, yet Dr. David Bruyette, advised you that you can give both. I personally believe Dr. Bruyette would never tell you that it was okay to give both unless he knew for sure that it was safe, and who better to know than the developer of Anipryl himself. Having said that, I will say that I am with Lori on this one. I'm a worry wart too and to be perfectly honest, if my dog was experiencing chronic, severe pain, choose Tramadol over the Anipryl.

    I sure am curious about where Hannah's cortisol levels are. If cortisol is elevated, Hannah would be getting a double dose of anti-inflammatories, one steroidal (cortisol) and one non-steroidal (Rimadyl). That's a major arthritic pain killing combination. Aside from being lethargic, what are you seeing in Hannah that makes you think that Rimadyl is not controlling her pain? Does she have trouble getting to her feet? Does she yelp in pain? Does she limp intermittently?

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