My big boy Gable - sweet Gabe is now at peace

[Harley PoMMom]

With my boy, Bear, those stones showed up with an x ray and also in an ultrasound.

[Joan2517]

Gable's panting is worse than ever and he pees for about 3 - 5 minutes when I get home from work. How he holds that in all day astounds me. I think I will have them do the ACTH test. Or do you think an ultrasound might reveal more? I start working in the city tomorrow and can't bear the thought of him having to hold it in, or go in the house, if the trains aren't running on time.

Since he's not on Vetoryl, do I need to do anything in particular before he gets tested if I go for the ACTH?

[Squirt's Mom]

I'm assuming he was checked for crystals in the urine and that a UTI has been ruled out? If he hasn't had a wellness check recently (showing BUN, ALP, T4, etc) I would want that done before the ACTH. If any urinary issues are ruled out and things like hypothyroidism, then I would opt for the ultrasound before the ACTH. The US give us the biggest bang for the buck because it shows most of the organs and can pick up things like nodules, enlargements, tumors, etc. Remember - the ACTH can be elevated simply because the dog is stressed going to the vet or riding in a car....or because of the presence of a tumor. So I would opt for the US first myself...after you are sure there is no UTI or crystals present.

Hope you enjoy your new workplace but am sorry you have to be gone from home so much.
Hugs,
Leslie

[labblab]

Hi Joan, is Gable still taking his thyroid supplementation and has that level recently been checked? If you do decide to proceed with the ACTH, I’m not aware of anything special that needs to be done on test day. You can check with the vet to see if he/she prefers that Gable is fasted. Since this is not a monitoring test for Vetoryl, a fasted sample is fine if that’s what the vet prefers (and if other blood work will be done at the same time).

As Leslie says, an ultrasound can always supply a range of useful info, however. Since Gable previously tested negative on the LDDS, an ultrasound might actually be a good place to start in order to see whether there’s anything else amiss that might account for these symptoms. But I can’t argue with an ACTH, either. I believe that his LDDS result would imply that if Gable does turn out to have Cushing’s, it would be pituitary in origin. But you still may end up wanting to do an ultrasound, regardless of the ACTH result. So either way, you may end up doing both tests in whichever order suits you best.

How’s that for a totally wishy-washy reply??? Sorry to be so noncommittal. And especially, I’m sorry that you have anything to be worrying about right now. I know how stressful it is to have to worry about traffic or travel time interfering with getting home in a timely fashion. That’s a lot of stress for you to shoulder every working day :-(((((((.

[Joan2517]

Thanks, Marianne and Leslie. He is still on the thyroid meds. He will need bloodwork to remew his meds. I am so convinced it is Cushing's. And yes, I could be just paranoid. I don't know what to do!! The panting, drinking and peeing makes me nuts! I don't want him to be uncomfortable. He is such a good boy...to pee in the house upsets him so much. He doesn't even lift his leg; he just spreads his legs and pees when he can't hold it in anymore.

How much more money, and how many more tests do I have to do to confirm Cushing's?? Next to Lee, he's my darling...what should I do??

[labblab]

After looking back through your entire thread once again, I believe I would go ahead and perform bloodwork — including the ACTH — at this point in time. I’m reminded that Gable previously exhibited elevations in ALKP and triglycerides along with his low thyroid. All three of these findings can occur in conjunction with Cushing’s. Since Gable is also due for monitoring of his thyroid supplementation, I believe I’d want a repeat of his blood chemistries and cell counts. I’d be curious to see whether his ALKP and triglycerides have changed, and I’d also want to see whether there are any new abnormalities.

As Leslie has suggested, it might be useful to first review the basic blood panels before moving forward. But if you’d prefer to gather all the info at once, I’m assuming sufficient blood could be drawn to perform these general panels at the same time as the baseline draw for the ACTH. Then the ACTH stimulation agent could be injected and that test subsequently completed an hour later.

It is true that the ACTH can return a false positive when an animal’s body is sufficiently stressed by another illness or disorder. But the estimate of “specificity” for the ACTH ranges between 86-93%. A statistics expert can interpret this more accurately than I can, but I believe this means that 86-93% of the positive results on this test are truly caused by Cushing’s as opposed to something else. So this means that a positive result on this test is generally pretty trustworthy, and would be helpful info to consider in conjunction with Gable’s previous LDDS. If he were my boy, this is probably how I’d proceed since his symptoms have continued unabated for quite some time now.

In the meantime, I wonder if there’s any place in your home where you might be able to put down pee pads for Gable to use if he needs to relieve himself while you’re away? I definitely realize we’re talking about a LOT of urine from a big dog. I’ve only used pee pads for puppies, so I don’t know if this would be any sort of reasonable option at all. But just thought I’d throw that idea out there, or maybe other folks will have some better suggestions to offer out...

[Joan2517]

We had pee pads down before. When Lena had it, then we kept them down because of Sibbie. I've been trying for the past few months to stop using them. I was off all last week and we finally got Sibbles to let us know she had to go out, so wee wee pads haven't been down all week.

But now that I have to work in the city, I may have to put them down again which really pisses me off. The two times Gabe peed in the house, one was on a runner by the back door, and the next time was on the wee wee pads, so he did try. But the problem is Cooper. He will mark wherever Gable or the girls go and he doesn't always hit the pads. He will lift his leg and pee on whatever is around, or go in another room and try to hide it. It's so frustrating! I'm used to coming home to Cooper's mess and having to clean that up, but I will be exhausted commuting back and forth into the city and have to spend the first hour doing that.

My husband and I were even thinking of keeping the greenhouse open when the weather gets warmer and leaving both boys outside, but Cooper is a nuisance barker and I'm sure the neighbors will complain. Now the Trazadone is not working either. We've tried Prozac, Elavil, and now the Trazadone. I'm thinking of trying the CBD oil. I just bought a big bottle of Hemp Oil for dogs to see if that would calm him down, but not sure if I should wait until I wean him off of the Trazadone first. I'll have to ask my vet. It must make Gable so uncomfortable when Cooper lets loose and he has to hold it in until I get home.

I'll take him for the bloodwork this weekend and see what we're looking at.

Thanks for all the advice...have to run! Got a train to catch! UGH!

[molly muffin]

Oh my goodness Joan. What a time you are having and sounds like it's pee city at your house these days.

I'd get the full bloodwork done and ACTH and just check him out, also a urinalysis to check for crystals and infection.
It's a starting point any way and you'd need to check thyroid levels before new meds anyhow. It could just be the thryoid is acting up, or it could be something else.

At least it's a starting point. We've had other say that CBD oil, helped calm their dogs. Isn't Chance the golden on that too?

[Joan2517]

Yes, that's what made me think of it when I saw that Chance was on it. When I bring Gabe in for his bloodwork, I'll ask about the CBD oil for Coop. I found some meds for Cooper that we had tried way back in 2012, so this has been ongoing.

[Harley PoMMom]

I wonder if a doggie diaper may help. After a quick search I found a particular diaper made for a large dog.

https://www.amazon.com/SnuggEase-Was...s=pet-supplies

Found this too: http://www.tinkletrousers.com/?gclid...SAAEgJGkfD_BwE