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Thread: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund - Roxie is now in heaven

  1. #11
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    You can also talk to the vet about something to help the liver like Denamarin or Milk Thistle.
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Hi again!

    I just wanted to come back and add a comment re: your worry about the deaths caused by trilostane that are summarized in the product literature. I would never minimize the fact that both trilostane and Lysodren have been associated with the loss of some Cushing's dogs, but here's some clarification about your worry. I hope this may ease your concern in that regard.

    I do want to add this word of clarification to the worry about death caused by trilostane. It is true that, over time, there have been some deaths of Cushing's dogs associated with physical changes caused by the drug. But the data in the product literature that is given about deaths of healthy "test" dogs is associated with massive overdoses of the medication: 3-5 times the maximum original dosing range of 3 mg. per pound. This means those poor dogs were given between 9-15 mg. per pound of the drug daily for 90 days! The current recommended initial dose is only 1 mg. per pound. So at the recommended dosing level, that kind of gross overdosing that affected the healthy dogs would never occur.
    For the benefit of our readers who are using trilostane, the overdosing described in the literature would equal 270-450 mg. given daily to a 30 pound dog.

    Marianne

  3. #13

    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt's Mom View Post
    You can also talk to the vet about something to help the liver like Denamarin or Milk Thistle.
    Is this something I need to get from the vet? Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by labblab View Post
    Hi again!

    I just wanted to come back and add a comment re: your worry about the deaths caused by trilostane that are summarized in the product literature. I would never minimize the fact that both trilostane and Lysodren have been associated with the loss of some Cushing's dogs, but here's some clarification about your worry. I hope this may ease your concern in that regard.



    For the benefit of our readers who are using trilostane, the overdosing described in the literature would equal 270-450 mg. given daily to a 30 pound dog.

    Marianne
    Hi!

    Wow thanks so much for posting that! That makes me feel so much better(not for the test dogs though) as I thought that was 3x-5x regular dose! If it is 3x-5x maximum dose I can understand why there was so many complications!

  4. #14
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    I don't think you need a prescription in the states for denamarin or milk thistle as they are supplements but it is always good to consult with your vet when adding any new medicine/supplement to the mix. Most cushing dogs though have high liver enzymes and these are used to help support the liver.

    Welcome to the forum!
    Sharlene and the late great diva - Molly muffin (always missed and never forgotten)

  5. #15
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Hi! Sharlene is right--no prescription is needed for Denamarin. I was getting Denamarin from Amazon but it was pricey. I have switched to S-Adenosyl; same components but less expensive (also found best price on Amazon). It is important to follow the instructions re the dosing schedule. I don't have the bottle near me but I think it is given two hours after eating.
    Judy H. (Always "Maggie and Abbie's Mom" & now "Sadie Sue's Mom")
    Venice, FL

  6. #16

    Default Do dogs need to fast for the low dex suppression test?

    I've read some people say they do but my vet didn't have Roxie fast and we specifically asked about it. Would that throw off the test?


    I haven't forgot about you guys and I will update my other thread with the exact test numbers when I get them. The vet is supposed to be back in tomorrow.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    MODERATOR NOTE: I have merged your post about fasting for the ACTH into your baby’s original thread. We normally like to keep all posts about each pup in a single thread as it makes it easier for members to refer back to the pup's history when needed. Thanks!

    As for the fasting - the answer is NO. There is a set protocol to follow with Vetoryl (Trilostane) that requires the drug be given with a meal, not a snack but a meal, and that the test be given 2-4 hours after the dose and meal are ingested. It does not matter what anyone else says, even a vet, if they say to fast they are wrong, period. These drugs are fat soluble which means they MUST have fats to enter the body. Without food the drug cannot work - if the drug is not working the test results will be wrong - if the test results are wrong that will lead the vet to take incorrect action - if incorrect action is taken the dog can become very sick, even die. So NO, never ever fast before a monitoring ACTH.

    For the diagnostic ACTH (BEFORE treatment starts) it is ok to fast but never after treatment has begun.

    Hope that helps!
    Hugs,
    Leslie and the gang
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Leslie is absolutely right about the procedure for a monitoring ACTH stimulation test after treatment has begun. But I believe you are asking about a diagnostic Low Dose Dexamethasone Suppression Test ("LDDS"). From what I have read, most labs do recommend that a dog be fasted before running that test. If the blood samples have too much fat in them, it can throw off the results (although I don't know in which direction).

    It may be the case, however, that the lab your vet uses does not require fasting. Or, if other bloodwork was done at the same time, it may show that Roxie's serum fat level was not high enough to interefere with the results, regardless. It is something you can ask him about again, though -- why did he not want her to be fasted when that is the stated protocol for many labs?

    Marianne

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Good point, Marianne! I took it for granted we were talking ACTH.
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  10. #20

    Default Can Denamarin and Vetoryl be given at the same time? And is it worth starting vetoryl

    Hello all. I visited here back in June I believe when I found out our little Roxie had cushings disease. At her age(now 15 and a half years old) we decided not to start her on the vetoryl until we felt her quality of life was got worse. I know I discussed it here with you guys but we based that on several things, possible side effects of vetoryl, her terrible itching would come back and assuming she has arhtritis(which I think she does) would get worse.

    She has done pretty good(all things considered for a 15 year old dog) the last 6 months but it's made it harder on us which I don't mind to keep her happy. She was always really hungry the first 4 months after she was diagnosed and would bark wanting to be fed all the time.

    She just needs to go out more often than she used to but she still never has had any accidents in the house other than when she had a UTI that was cleared up with antibiotics.

    The last two months she has been losing some hair over her front shoulders and back legs are getting pretty weak. She can still walk ok, still has a good appetite and hasn't vomited once since she was diagnosed. Also her bark has changed pitch and is high pitched since around the time she showed other symptoms.

    Her liver counts were elevated back when she was diagnosed and I noticed the last month or so she would rub the top of her head on stuff which I read is a sign of liver problems so I started her on denamarin for medium dogs.


    So my question to you all do you think it is worth starting her on the vetoryl or is it to late to help?

    All we've ever wanted is whats best for her and to make her not suffer and I think we've done that. It breaks my heart to see her getting worse and she has been the little baby of our family for over 15 years.


    In hindsight I kind of wish we had started her on it back when she first was diagnosed but at the time we weighed the pros and cons and did what we thought was right.

    I apologize for not keeping you all up to date but once we decided to not start the vetoryl right away I just wanted to not think about it and read all of these threads and second guess myself.

    Thank you all this is a great place with great advice and great people.

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