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Thread: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund - Roxie is now in heaven

  1. #1

    Default 15 year old Miniature Dachshund - Roxie is now in heaven

    Hello, I have a 15 year old miniature Dachshund who just a month or so ago started showing signs of cushings disease. Increased thirst, increased appetite and a little loss of hair on her tail. Thinking back on it she hasn't scratched or itched since going back to last fall which is unusual for her. The Vet said that could be because of cushings because it is like them getting a steroid shot. They ordered up regular blood work and her white counts were a little low and her ALP liver count was high but ALT was normal.

    This week they did the low dex suppression test and sent the blood results to the U of I and the Dr. called back and said it is cushings. So now they want to start her on Vetoryl 10mg. Do the symptoms and blood work definitively diagnose cushings?


    After reading some of bad side effects and everything about Vetoryl at her age I am really questioning whether we should start her on it?

    She is still doing good for her age but has increased thirst(and more urination to go with it), increased appetite and a little hair loss on her tail but none else where.

    Thank you so much for any advice!


    Edit-I forgot to mention our beloved little Roxie weighs 17 lbs.
    Last edited by Roxie; 06-20-2015 at 12:36 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

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    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Here is the blood work from her cbc.

    Edit-The fine print on the vetoryl really has me worried about giving it to my little dog at her age. Reading about young healthy dogs passing away from being on it at 3x-5x standard dose scares me. I just don't want to make her suffer from side effects or make her worse. What do you guys recommend for a 15 year old dog?

    WBC 4.5
    LYM .46
    MON .03
    RBC 6.84
    HGB 14.2
    HCT 47.31
    MCV 69
    MCH 20.7
    MCHC 29.9
    RDWc 15.5%


    ALB 4.1 range 2.5-4.4
    ALP 1070* range 20-150
    ALT 90 range 10-118
    AMY 469 range 200-1200
    TBIL 0.3 range .1-.6
    BUN 16 range 7-25
    CA 11.4 range 8.6-11.8
    PHOS 5.3 range 2.9-6.6
    CRE .8 range .3-1.4
    GLU 111 range 60-110
    NA+ 145 range 138-160
    K+ 4.7 range 3.7-5.8
    TP 8.0 range 5.4-8.2
    GLOB 3.8 range 2.3-5.2
    Last edited by Roxie; 06-20-2015 at 11:48 AM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Welcome. I can only tell you my story. My mini dachshund , Apollo was 11 when he was diagnosed and was on 10 mg, he was 10 lbs. He had a very sensitive stomach and could only tolerate a low dosage. He lived to be one month short of 14 and died from other complications. I feel he probably had cushing's for about 1-2 years before he was diagnosed. At 15 years you want to be very careful. Maybe others can give you their input.
    Sonja

  5. #5

    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by apollo6 View Post
    Welcome. I can only tell you my story. My mini dachshund , Apollo was 11 when he was diagnosed and was on 10 mg, he was 10 lbs. He had a very sensitive stomach and could only tolerate a low dosage. He lived to be one month short of 14 and died from other complications. I feel he probably had cushing's for about 1-2 years before he was diagnosed. At 15 years you want to be very careful. Maybe others can give you their input.
    Sonja
    Thank you for your reply Sonja and sorry to hear about your little mini.

    I agree with you and I am very scared about starting her on something at her age. I want her to have the best quality of life possible but also would like to have her around as long as possible but not at the expense of her being uncomfortable or living with bad side effects.

    Thank you again for your reply.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Hi and welcome!

    Do you have the results and interpretation from the LDDS? If so, post them here as well, please. Does she have any other health issues that you know of? Has she been on steroids for allergies? If so, for how long?

    10mg of Vetoryl for a 17lb dog is a conservative dose. The recommended starting dose would be 17mg - 1mg per lb or 2mg per kg. So 10mg that is not too high and a good starting dose for an older gal. When this drug was first released, they did recommend a much higher starting dose but as time has passed and more has been learned about this drug, the starting dose was lowered by the manufacturer recently. It IS a very powerful drug - but so is Aspirin when you have a fever. Used correctly, the drugs used to treat Cushing's are life-savers...and we are here to help you make sure Vetoryl is used correctly with your baby girl. You are family now, and this family sticks together.

    For today, you can take some time and read threads here and learn a bit more. Also check out the Helpful Resource section in the Index and you will find lots of goodies there. Please ask any questions you have and we will do our best to help you understand...we all learn together here. I'm sure others will be along soon to chat with you.

    Hugs,
    Leslie and the gang
    "May you know that absence is full of tender presence and that nothing is ever lost or forgotten." John O'Donahue, "Eternal Echoes"

    Death is not a changing of worlds as most imagine, as much as the walls of this world infinitely expanding.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Hi tommy was only on vetoryl forb6 months before he passed at 14 and a half wonderful years. He ended up on a big dose as he seemed to have a high resistance to it. The week he passed was the week his cortisol came back to normal so vetoryl did not contribute to his passing. He passed from an unrelated kidney problem never knew he had. In my view though he started at 14 on vetoryl and if the kidney problem didn't arise I believe vetoryl was and would have contributed to a longer and better life for him. God I miss that dog!!!

  8. #8

    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by Squirt's Mom View Post
    Hi and welcome!

    Do you have the results and interpretation from the LDDS? If so, post them here as well, please. Does she have any other health issues that you know of? Has she been on steroids for allergies? If so, for how long?

    10mg of Vetoryl for a 17lb dog is a conservative dose. The recommended starting dose would be 17mg - 1mg per lb or 2mg per kg. So 10mg that is not too high and a good starting dose for an older gal. When this drug was first released, they did recommend a much higher starting dose but as time has passed and more has been learned about this drug, the starting dose was lowered by the manufacturer recently. It IS a very powerful drug - but so is Aspirin when you have a fever. Used correctly, the drugs used to treat Cushing's are life-savers...and we are here to help you make sure Vetoryl is used correctly with your baby girl. You are family now, and this family sticks together.

    For today, you can take some time and read threads here and learn a bit more. Also check out the Helpful Resource section in the Index and you will find lots of goodies there. Please ask any questions you have and we will do our best to help you understand...we all learn together here. I'm sure others will be along soon to chat with you.

    Hugs,
    Leslie and the gang

    Hello Leslie, thanks so much for the reply. I do not have copies of the results from the LDDS test yet I will get them Monday and be sure to post them. She hasn't received steroid shots for allergies for several years now. I think we quit those 2-3 years ago due to her age. She does receive about half to one benadryl a day.

    I tried to read a lot of threads when I first found this site and thats what got me worried because I read everyone said to not start treatment unless you are 100% your dog has cushings. Then I started reading the fine print on the medication and how many healthy dogs died from 3x and 5x regular dose in trials and it got me worried about starting her on it because of her age. I realize she will be on a small dose and it looks like she will have to start treatment. But I just know I will kick myself if it ends up shortening her life or immediately causes her bad reactions. Because as of now she is doing pretty good other than the frequent drinking and urination. She doesn't drink all day long but when she does drink she drinks a fair bit.

    I was pretty sure it was cushings before we even took her to the vet from the symptoms she was/is displaying and from what I had read online. Seems like cushings to a T.

    Thanks so much for your support and insight. I will keep you all informed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert View Post
    Hi tommy was only on vetoryl forb6 months before he passed at 14 and a half wonderful years. He ended up on a big dose as he seemed to have a high resistance to it. The week he passed was the week his cortisol came back to normal so vetoryl did not contribute to his passing. He passed from an unrelated kidney problem never knew he had. In my view though he started at 14 on vetoryl and if the kidney problem didn't arise I believe vetoryl was and would have contributed to a longer and better life for him. God I miss that dog!!!
    Hi Robert, thank you so much for your reply. So sorry to hear about your loss! Is it possible the vetoryl could have caused the kidney problems? Or did he have it before treatment? Sorry again for your loss I am dreading the day it will happen to me and I will be like you and most of us here and be devastated.
    Last edited by Roxie; 06-21-2015 at 01:18 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Hello and welcome from me, too! I apologize for having only a moment to post right now. To make it quicker, I am going to include a quote from a reply that I have posted elsewhere. As you will see, I do think that the decision to treat an elderly dog may be based on certain considerations that are a bit different than those for a younger dog.

    Obviously, you will have to await diagnostic testing testing before proceeding with any treatment plan. But in answer to your question, in my own mind, the decision whether or not to treat depends on a number of factors: age of the dog, apparent discomfort, severity of symptoms (both external and internal), etc. Cushing's is typically a slowly developing syndrome, and the decision to actively treat may come sooner or later in the process. The primary goals of treament are to control the troublesome observable symptoms (things like excessive thirst, urination, hunger, panting, muscle wasting), and also to halt/delay silent internal damage. Untreated Cushing's can make dogs more vulnerable to things like high blood pressure, high cholesterol, protein-losing kidney disease, blindness (as a result of high blood pressure), pancreatitis, ligament damage and slow healing, chronic infections and skin issues, GI disturbance, etc. Not every dog will suffer from all or even many of these issues, but the disease can make them happen.

    Since the damage usually occurs over time, my own opinion is that I don't worry so much about the "silent" damage in a dog who is already elderly. My biggest concern for a senior dog is immediate quality of life. So if the overt symptoms are making the senior dog uncomfortable, I would treat. Otherwise, I might not.

    However, for a younger dog, I would be equally as concerned about the silent internal damage. I would want to give my dog as many quality years of life that I could, and that would mean putting a stop to the development of the internal systemic damage as well as relieving the uncomfortable outward problems.
    Absolutely, we have seen dogs of all ages do very well with treatment. However, regardless of age, there can be some trade-offs. For instance, you mention itchiness for Roxie and the fact that her itchiness has actually been better lately. It is true that lowering cortisol levels can "unmask" conditions that are actually improved by the anti-inflammatory effect of steroids. So, for instance, dogs with allergies or arthritis may see those conditions worsen again once the cortisol level comes down. So in my mind, this is an example of the trade-offs of treatment for an elderly dog -- which symptoms or problems will be more uncomfortable? Also, treatment requires regular trips to the vet for bloodwork and monitoring. For some dogs, this is not an issue. For others, this in itself is very stressful. But also bear in mind that you always have the option of giving treatment a try and halting it if you do not think the benefits are outweighing the negatives.

    Overall, the point I wish to make is that I think that, if you wish, it is perfectly OK for you to take a little more time to make the decision for Roxie that feels best to you. I just read an article by Moira Anderson Allen that contained this great quote: "Your veterinarian is the best judge of your pet's physical condition; however, you are the best judge of the quality of your pet's daily life." In the case of my own dog, his Cushing's symptoms were making him so miserable that I would have treated him at any age and regardless of his fear of the vet's office. But your evaluation of Roxie's quality of life will depend on her own situation.

    Please feel free to continue to ask any questions you wish.

    Marianne

  10. #10

    Default Re: 15 year old Miniature Dachshund. Is low dext test definitive?

    Quote Originally Posted by labblab View Post
    Hello and welcome from me, too! I apologize for having only a moment to post right now. To make it quicker, I am going to include a quote from a reply that I have posted elsewhere. As you will see, I do think that the decision to treat an elderly dog may be based on certain considerations that are a bit different than those for a younger dog.



    Absolutely, we have seen dogs of all ages do very well with treatment. However, regardless of age, there can be some trade-offs. For instance, you mention itchiness for Roxie and the fact that her itchiness has actually been better lately. It is true that lowering cortisol levels can "unmask" conditions that are actually improved by the anti-inflammatory effect of steroids. So, for instance, dogs with allergies or arthritis may see those conditions worsen again once the cortisol level comes down. So in my mind, this is an example of the trade-offs of treatment for an elderly dog -- which symptoms or problems will be more uncomfortable? Also, treatment requires regular trips to the vet for bloodwork and monitoring. For some dogs, this is not an issue. For others, this in itself is very stressful. But also bear in mind that you always have the option of giving treatment a try and halting it if you do not think the benefits are outweighing the negatives.

    Overall, the point I wish to make is that I think that, if you wish, it is perfectly OK for you to take a little more time to make the decision for Roxie that feels best to you. I just read an article by Moira Anderson Allen that contained this great quote: "Your veterinarian is the best judge of your pet's physical condition; however, you are the best judge of the quality of your pet's daily life." In the case of my own dog, his Cushing's symptoms were making him so miserable that I would have treated him at any age and regardless of his fear of the vet's office. But your evaluation of Roxie's quality of life will depend on her own situation.

    Please feel free to continue to ask any questions you wish.

    Marianne
    Hello Marianne and thanks so much for your reply!

    I completely understand what you are saying about the trade offs. I am pretty sure her itchiness will come back if her cortisol levels drop due to the vetoryl. And I am not sure if she has arthritis or not but she definitely walks a little more gingerly than she used to so I also wonder if that will get worse if cortisol levels drop?

    I guess like you said we can start treatment and see how she does with it and can always take her off it later depending on how she responds.

    The other big point you brought up was trips to the vet. She gets terrified when she has to go to the vet and we felt awful leaving her for the LDDS test for 8 hours. We asked if we could bring her in in the AM for the first draw and shot and then take her and come back for the next two but they said they would rather keep her.

    I am just really torn on what is the right thing to do. Her one liver count being so high concerns me and I assume it might come down if the vetoryl works? She just really seems to be doing pretty good for her age other than drinking more and then not sleeping all through the night.

    Thanks again for your help and support.

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